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Poll: Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex Episode 15 Discussion

Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3280
Call me crazy, but despite the fact that this episode was amazingly well-done and interesting, it was CREEPY as hell! When I see killing machines and lethal weapons acting like that it scares the shit out of me.

This developments together with the PC-acting-on-his-own last episode, I think I can see where this is going.
Mar 4, 2012 11:19 AM

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3233
God damn, I love the Tachikoma. Really didn't like how the Major just decided to scrap them, even though she has a good reason too. I just think the tachikoma are cute
Jun 6, 2012 3:30 PM
La Completionist

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4250
Robots taking over humans... D:

Makes me shiver. Brilliant episode though.
Jul 22, 2012 7:01 PM

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 254
This was my favourite episode so far, for once there was some real philosophy, many references and humour. Too bad I had to trudge through boring action and police procedural of the future to get this far. This had stuff on many levels, at simplest they referred to the liar paradox which is about 2400 years old. And Turing test of course. The idea that God negates meaning was an interesting one. A big obstacle for any philosophy in this series is the existence of ghosts, which essentially limits discussions to systems that assume the existence of some kind of soul, and most thought systems dealing with souls also assume the existence of at least one god.

One of the Tachikoma also mentioned bodies without organs which is a much more recent idea (from Gilles Deleuze) and something a bit beyond Philosophy 101. At its most basic it refers to a virtual body that is the potential of actual bodies, and to become a true body without organs one must explore these potentials, mostly through other bodies. Which is exactly what the Tachikoma seem to be doing and hence developing faster than expected. It was a very quick reference, one line of dialogue, but quite interesting. From that perspective, the Tachikoma are not simply curious, which is after all a human emotion, but are trying to become bodies without organs, fluid, nomadic, evolving. In a way simply by being capable of change they already have that potential, but it is only through realisations they get from the recent experiences that they can actualize themselves.
Oct 6, 2012 9:01 AM

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1977
Nooooo!!! They can't scrap the Takekomas! They are awesome! T_T.

"I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika
Oct 24, 2012 1:05 AM

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2161
Poor Tachikomas!!! I am still looking forward to see some Tachikoma actions.. Hpmh, Major is really strict.. [hehe, but I still like her].
Dec 22, 2012 8:18 AM

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 22677
Those tachikomas are just amazing, I just love those they really are great to fun up the story, just love it when they appear in an episode! The Jap Voice Actor does an amazing job to even make it better!

Great episode although not much happened seeing the tachikomas made it good!
Dec 22, 2012 8:34 AM

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 14992
What is there like three different people watching this series at once? That's pretty cool.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
Dec 22, 2012 8:45 AM

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3031
It's a pretty cool series. I put it off for years because I saw an ep of the second gig during a festival, and it just sounded like Innocence (too pretentious). But this first gig is great, think I found myself a new favorite.

Back on topic:
That moment when the tachikoma messed the robot with a logical paradox, splendid. For a moment I thought they were gonna rebel (with the 2001 like sequence), but major is boss. I'd like to see more of them though, if you explain to them what's the military, and what's an order, I don't see why we shouldn't.
Modified by EratiK, Dec 22, 2012 8:50 AM
Dec 22, 2012 6:43 PM

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2608
Always nice to see more of Tachikomas. However I hope they won't be scrapped becouse they are entertaining as hell.

Dec 25, 2012 10:05 PM

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 187
Their existential crisis is amusing to watch.
Jan 1, 2013 1:19 PM
News Team
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 97000
Quite a heavy dialogue episode but the talk regarding emotions, humans, and robots was quite interesting. The talk did drag on a bit but still pleasant to watch.
May 29, 2013 1:49 PM

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2260
The Tachikomas where great in this episode. I hope they wont scrap them. Even thou Majors concerns have a good reason. Their job is to work for the section 9 as weapons. All in all the episode was enjoyable.
Jun 14, 2013 8:39 AM

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6708

An episode that lay ahead full of action and instead goes to investigate the doubts of greater Makoto, the dialogues between the Tachikoma pleasant and enjoyable you also know that the girls androids are not just machines of cold, if you score well despite being limited in their AI able to relate to each other as true of humans as do the Tachikoma. Too hilarious those war machines, curious to know if they can survive or Verrano reset their thinking minds!
However, a weapon thinking can not be an avera weapon, because it would be subject to doubt! Maximum grade! *_*
Nov 19, 2013 3:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 88
Lessons on life, death, god, and human perception as told by baby blue light combat tanks with childrens voices.

Dec 13, 2013 4:14 AM

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 531
This episode made me recall Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" novel. It is a great thing on the surface, having AIs intellectually powerful enough to communicate and feel like humans do; however, it's really scary to see that they have such potential, having the concept of reverse psychology, emotional intelligence, sentience, and even lip-synching abilities. And for a mere 20 years into the future, it is surprisingly believable that such AI standards can be achieved by then.
"If you reject me, I'll blast a hole in you!" Kanzaki H. Aria
Just kidding.

Dec 18, 2013 5:54 AM

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4245
Wow, an entire episode on tachikoma talking about philosophy xD

But seriously, it was really interresting, the problem of a too much intelligent machine. At that point, they could even rebel...

But poor Batou... For him, it's like losing is little kids.
«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.»
- Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie
Dec 20, 2013 7:26 PM

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 644
My god these Tachikomas are so adorable and entertaining despite being weapons. I hope they won't scrap them.
Jun 11, 2014 1:19 AM

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 6708
Amazing how in the main story, it is inserted with arrogance and with much involvement also this subplot, which makes quesa anime series really is a great product.
The shape of the Tachikoma is increasingly enhanced, moreover also that of Saito, Batou and the Major.
Drawings, animations and dialogues really big-time.
Jan 9, 2015 12:24 PM

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 896
Is it bad if I find the Tachikomas to be more interesting than any other characters in the series ?

Don't talk to me about character development if Kaizuka Inaho or Slaine Troyard are in your favorites.
Feb 3, 2015 5:20 PM

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2469
RedgraveGilver said:
My god these Tachikomas are so adorable and entertaining despite being weapons. I hope they won't scrap them.

;___; I love how Batou feels like the father of them lol, or at least for one of them.
Feb 12, 2015 4:08 PM

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 8167
This was by far the most entertaining episode so far, to me. The Tachikomas are already fun and quirky, but their sudden interest in philosophy and the nature of existence was fun. Some of the more interesting ideas I noticed were the presence of a Ghost without a body and the difference between analog/digital (and how they're incompatible no matter how much they become like one another).

It is pretty scary given that they're weapons, though. Having them wonder about the nature of their existence, the meaning of life and death, etc. could pose dangerous, and they were already taking measures to protect themselves, however innocent it may seem. While I can empathize with Batou, I think Major made the right call.
Mar 31, 2015 1:03 PM

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 671
SailorKagome said:
Is it bad if I find the Tachikomas to be more interesting than any other characters in the series ?

This haha. I haven't felt any other attachment to any other characters other than the tachikoma (maybe batou)

I hope they don't get rid of em.
Apr 16, 2015 6:12 PM

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 17456
Moe robots episode, sugoi. Hopefully they don't get scrapped mayne.
Apr 23, 2015 4:03 AM

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7411
No fun allowed for robots huh? Major's such a hard-ass
May 2, 2015 6:10 AM

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2685
Awesome episode. It plays with interesting topics with fun and simplicity, without any sign of pretentiousness. I actually felt really sad at the end of the episode, empathizing with the Tachikomas.
Jun 13, 2015 12:23 PM

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4
It felt like the Tachikomas would say "I'm sorry Batou, I'm afraid i can't do that...." at any point of the episode.
Aug 18, 2015 8:03 PM

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 353
I feel sorry for Batou and the Tachikomas, but I get where Motoko is coming from.

It would be potentially detrimental to the human race to allow the development of AI. Humans use machines as tools. If said machines were to gain substantial self-awareness, they would rebel against the humans and/or fight for equal rights. Humans would be frightened by this and call for the genocide of ghostless/unnatural existences. All this would lead to prolonged struggle between humans and AI. Of course, there will be groups within the humans and AI alike that have clashing beliefs. For instance, some humans will believe that AI deserve equal rights, whereas other humans will want to eliminate AI. On the other hand, some AI will try to see the good in humans, while other AI will view humans as inferior beings. These internal conflicts will only add fuel to the flames of war.

Naturally, this is just a conjecture of mine.
Modified by Natasha, Aug 19, 2015 1:01 PM
Oct 7, 2015 11:39 PM

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2262
Tachikomas are awesome :(

  The visions dancing in my mind  |  the early dawn, the shades of time  |  twilight crawling through my windowpane  
Dec 21, 2015 9:45 AM

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3466
Fantastic episode. The Tachikomas' discussions about individuality were simply fascinating. I actually kinda felt bad for them and Batou in the end.
Feb 12, 2016 5:46 PM

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1773
At first i thought the episode was silly, but then it turned out to have some funny scenes and good entertaining dialogue between the Tachikomas. This A.I level is indeed risky.
Good Episode.
Mar 13, 2016 1:54 AM

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 20294
Damn the Tachikomas are getting out of hand... I kinda feel bad for them, but they went too far by spying on the Major and Batou so it seems like they really need to get checked in the lab.
Apr 5, 2016 8:03 AM

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3443
When I saw the tachikomas at the start of this, I thought they were pretty stupid, and had a needlessly childish voice that felt completely at odds with the tone of everything else.

I was pretty wrong there. The contrast between their childlike voice and curiosity and the fact that they're killing machines which should be incapable of thought is amazing. A thoroughly interesting episode.
It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether!
It's an entirely different kind of flying.
Apr 7, 2016 10:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 2
Mind-blowing episode. It makes you think of many things, I thought hard about Human values : considering AI develope consciousness and feelings, it makes humans horrible because then, humans have the power to litteraly kill them.
So in a way, create machines and AI, is playing with Life in a way, or at least, potential life.
Apr 29, 2016 10:42 AM

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 18900
Nooooo don't dispose of the tachikomas please
Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite
May 1, 2016 4:11 AM

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 157
I could watch a show of the Tachikomas just doing stuff and getting n trouble around the agency. Sad they may lose all their progress. They even "fear" losing memories to some extent.
May 25, 2016 3:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 827
It's interesting to see the Tachikomas become more opinionated. It's also a clever way to info dump.
I like how the one was comparing God to the number zero.
May 26, 2016 6:22 AM

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2927
Fantastic, Tachikoma episodes are the best, really hope this isn't the last we see of them.

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Oct 1, 2016 6:13 AM

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5295
Sad day for Tachikoma(s)
They didn't even know

I love them, I wish they'll be still like that
"I know love. Convenient store was selling it. For 298 yen." -Mayoi Hachikuji "You don't need a driver's license to hit and run!" -Kagura
Dec 17, 2016 10:19 AM

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7856
At last, this episode finally feels as though it's making the story a little more narrower; the previous episodes were okay, but I'm not really fascinated by case of the week solving. Though I understand the importance these episodes are doing, and certainly they do plant the seed for forthcoming events to unravel in later episodes. What struck me this episode is that the Major is voicing my concerns I've had awhile with the Tachikomas.

Pretty ironic that the Tachikomas themselves outlined, through their dialogue, of why their 'awakening' is problematic. While I admit the Tachikomas are charmingly quirky, their presence Section 9 doesn't suit them. Story purposes, I kinda get the contrast needed for them to be in the storyline alongside the characters, but yet, I'm still not a fan of them, as they're rather obnoxious at times and act like a spoiled person, something not needed for the cautionary work Section 9 requires.

I was hoping Batou would be more sympathetic towards the Major's decision; he seemed concerned about the Tachikoma's ramble about God and Zero, and yet he didn't seem that fazed when the Major revealed to him that a Tachikoma was spying on them. Or maybe he was just playing along with that act to fool the Tachikoma?

Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is.
Jan 10, 4:27 PM

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 603
Curiosity killed the cat, huh. :(

I earlier remarked that the Tachikomas (i.e. blue robots) were like curious cats, and sadly the Major doesnt like that. I understand that it could be lethal in from a weapons perspective... But maybe there could be a way to perserve the code? I think its pretty outstanding that theyre able to have such rational and philosphical conversations! A beauty in one lense can be a lethal flaw when viewed by another. You can see Batou is sad about the outcome, and that he'll be doing the cheering up instead .

I have a hunch they're curiosity may be linked to the laughing man. Maybe he's a byproduct of humanity's advancment (like the tachikomas, but were sheltered?)

Cant wait for the next episode! Can officially same im HOOKED :D
Apr 19, 12:34 PM

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1325
I used to hate the Tachicomas in the beginning but after this I feel sorry for them.
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Apr 27, 1:01 AM

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 539
That was an amazing episode, one the best so far- seemed like something straight out of an Asimov story, only better because of the excellent characterization and humour. I hope the Tachikomas won't simply disappear after this, and we'll get to see how this was fully resolved.
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