Ghost in the Shell Standalone Complex
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| Wow. That episode was great. Cenizo, have you ever heard of the Turing Test ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test )? Good introduction to asking questions about what it means to be intelligent. Personally, I think it is very hard to judge a thing as intelligent, or not intelligent. The matter is much more continuous with various degrees of intelligence. Indeed, the human genome project has revealed that human intelligence is not specified by individual genes, but instead belongs to much larger sets of genes. Not only that, but Psychology studies have shown that the experiences of a persons life also play an large role in shaping an individual. Finally, if things were not already complicated enough, currently, there is a lot of talk about what the role the physical body plays in intelligence. Our sensory organs define how we view the world, and our limbs how we can interact with it. Without interaction in some sort of world, ideas are meaningless. Philosophers call this 'aboutness' intentionality. Suffice to say, there are a lot of factors that influence intelligence and the question is not very cut and dry. An interesting thought experiment to think about is the "Chinese Room" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room ). I think this is REALLY thought provoking. This area of Philosophy is known as the Philosophy of Mind ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Mind ). Google around and I am sure you will find interesting topics. The wiki link is a great place to start. Cognitive Science ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_Science ) is another active field of research into these topics. It is an interdisciplinary field drawing on Computer Science, Psychology, Biology, Anthropology, Sociology, Physiology, and Philosophy (to name a few). Lots of interesting stuff about how the brain works. |
OmegaRedMay 14, 2008 7:25 PM
     "There is no such thing as God in this world." -Setsuna F. Seiei |
| Very interesting episode. The Tachikomas were great but the major doesn't seem to like them developing individuality :/ |
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| I enjoyed this episode. The Tachikomas are really entertaining and there were a few things this episode that had me thinking. |
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| It was ok - 3/5 The tachikomas kinda got on my nerves by the end of it. |
aero said: I would say a Extremely interesting episode. It make us wonder about the life somehow, but thats not the point anyway. What would do an AI machine if they get aware of their existence? They would rebel against humans? Probably. They would -obviusly- not follow anymore an order. That would means that the AI got a personality wich also means that it would be breaking the barrier between human existance and machine existence. I'm saying all this of course, based on this philosophy; "I think therefore I am human".Very interesting episode. The Tachikomas were great but the major doesn't seem to like them developing individuality :/ Good episode anyway. |
| Noooo, but the Tachikoma's are so awesome ><, she should keep them around. |
| i feel sort of sorry for the tackikomas, b/c they're programming was too well, they are not being trusted by the ones using them. i ask you is it fair make a machine with artificial intelligence and then get rid of it just b/c it becomes curious, even though it is totally loyal? |
the only way to stop a gamer from playing is either: beat them, or wait until they get bored (though 2% percent suffer seizures  |
| I'm actually starting to get a little annoyed by the tachikomas. They have one specific purpose, to do what they are told as weapons of section 9, yet they're always trying to explore and experience new things that it sometimes gets in the way. I will admit that they are pretty cool to be able to get to where they are, but something needs to be done or else something bad could happen in the field. I just wonder how the tachikomas could be replaced. |
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| lol second renaissance It's been almost 30 years since cyberpunk started and the ideas have been around a lot longer (yeah Isaac Asimov and I Robot) and science still has no idea what consciousness or the idea of "self" really is... yes, the nervous system, brain, and intelligence are all components of it, but science still has no hard definition of the concept of the conscious entity. Even if an AI is programmed to process new information and react to it, it can only do so within certain parameters set by the programmer. A machine becoming conscious has never happened at any point in human history, and it is reasonable to assume that it never will happen. At any rate, the burden of proof is on the scientists and cyberpunk otaku in this case. Neuromancer was win because of the awesome, gritty style and cool anti-heroes, not some revolutionary ideas about machines coming to life. Cyberpunk fails hard when it resorts to brain fapping like this, as the second and third installments of the Matrix irrefutably proved. And yes, the tachikomas were annoying as hell. They seem more like refugees from one of CLAMP's series than part of an 31337 cyber crime-solving force. |
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| I love the Tachikoma.. Don't scrap them! |
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Mikiyo said: In the end I think our dear Major is right... You can't be confident about something to use to fight... and suddenly they're thinking about something else... It was a really hard decision, but I guess it was for the best... since you can't contro that anymore... aero said: I would say a Extremely interesting episode. It make us wonder about the life somehow, but thats not the point anyway. What would do an AI machine if they get aware of their existence? They would rebel against humans? Probably. They would -obviusly- not follow anymore an order. That would means that the AI got a personality wich also means that it would be breaking the barrier between human existance and machine existence. I'm saying all this of course, based on this philosophy; "I think therefore I am human".Very interesting episode. The Tachikomas were great but the major doesn't seem to like them developing individuality :/ Good episode anyway. This Tachikoma episode was the one missing... It came at the right time... But was more interesting, was the fact that the AI of the Tachikoma has developed enough to actually fix another machine... the results are still unknown, but I'm pretty sure it will be a good one... neway the Tachikomas are good enough to really make that conspiration... The Barrier between Human and Machine is almost broken here... That's really interesting... Signs, Green |
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| it's funny how the Tachikoma been developing... This episode had me thinking hard... Robots are created by human, and human didn't place a soul(or ghost) in it, so it can't have one... Just like god, we human create them through words written in books, and I don't think we ever gave them the power to create heaven or hell, or strike us with lightning, therefor it doesn't exist. All in all, poor Tachikowas, they don't know what cruel fate is waiting for them... but do they even know what cruel means besides the definition of cruel.... and programmed possible human emotion... hmmmm... |
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| this is my favourite episode :) |
| The Major is just one step ahead of them... |
ConfuciusOct 18, 2010 10:09 PM
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
aero said: Very interesting episode. The Tachikomas were great but the major doesn't seem to like them developing individuality :/ I love the Tachikomas, I like how they are developing individuality. Drgentile777 said: I'm actually starting to get a little annoyed by the tachikomas. They have one specific purpose, to do what they are told as weapons of section 9, yet they're always trying to explore and experience new things that it sometimes gets in the way. I will admit that they are pretty cool to be able to get to where they are, but something needs to be done or else something bad could happen in the field. I just wonder how the tachikomas could be replaced. They may be meant to be used as just weapons, but I still feel terrible for them. If something does happen in the field because of their individuality, that would be a bad thing, but at the same time, I really don't want them to just be replaced with AI that do what they are told without any free thought. Or, I at least want the Tachikomas to stick around and do jobs they are capable of doing safely with their individuality and AI. |
BigSimo said: It was ok - 3/5 The tachikomas kinda got on my nerves by the end of it. This at best. I find it odd they make such a big deal about them & seem to be giving this ordeal more then an episode. AT least there's some Batou & Major personality development. I think Batou will do something he shouldn't to protect them next. |
| Such junk... |
| it's actually an interesting episode. what if machines were to produce some sort of emotion based on experience with humans and all??? ehh i don't think the era of robots will come anytime soon. maybe 50-100 years from now. anyway yeah the Tachikoma are just meant to be used as a weapon. nothing more. they're funny as hell but when your in a dangerous situation is best if they just concentrate in the mission rather than exploring things(like the last episode while she hack the computer)where Major needed that Tachikoma to alert her of anyone coming in the room hmm i'll looked up space odyssey and other sic fi works. in fact been playing Deus EX HR and i really notice alot of things of Ghost in the Shell were taken and use in Human Revolution(especially the last episode with Fem and his Arm like Gatling Gun) |
| Call me crazy, but despite the fact that this episode was amazingly well-done and interesting, it was CREEPY as hell! When I see killing machines and lethal weapons acting like that it scares the shit out of me. This developments together with the PC-acting-on-his-own last episode, I think I can see where this is going. |
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| God damn, I love the Tachikoma. Really didn't like how the Major just decided to scrap them, even though she has a good reason too. I just think the tachikoma are cute |
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| Robots taking over humans... D: Makes me shiver. Brilliant episode though. |
| This was my favourite episode so far, for once there was some real philosophy, many references and humour. Too bad I had to trudge through boring action and police procedural of the future to get this far. This had stuff on many levels, at simplest they referred to the liar paradox which is about 2400 years old. And Turing test of course. The idea that God negates meaning was an interesting one. A big obstacle for any philosophy in this series is the existence of ghosts, which essentially limits discussions to systems that assume the existence of some kind of soul, and most thought systems dealing with souls also assume the existence of at least one god. One of the Tachikoma also mentioned bodies without organs which is a much more recent idea (from Gilles Deleuze) and something a bit beyond Philosophy 101. At its most basic it refers to a virtual body that is the potential of actual bodies, and to become a true body without organs one must explore these potentials, mostly through other bodies. Which is exactly what the Tachikoma seem to be doing and hence developing faster than expected. It was a very quick reference, one line of dialogue, but quite interesting. From that perspective, the Tachikoma are not simply curious, which is after all a human emotion, but are trying to become bodies without organs, fluid, nomadic, evolving. In a way simply by being capable of change they already have that potential, but it is only through realisations they get from the recent experiences that they can actualize themselves. |
| Nooooo!!! They can't scrap the Takekomas! They are awesome! T_T. |
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
| Poor Tachikomas!!! I am still looking forward to see some Tachikoma actions.. Hpmh, Major is really strict.. [hehe, but I still like her]. |
| Those tachikomas are just amazing, I just love those they really are great to fun up the story, just love it when they appear in an episode! The Jap Voice Actor does an amazing job to even make it better! Great episode although not much happened seeing the tachikomas made it good! |
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| What is there like three different people watching this series at once? That's pretty cool. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| It's a pretty cool series. I put it off for years because I saw an ep of the second gig during a festival, and it just sounded like Innocence (too pretentious). But this first gig is great, think I found myself a new favorite. Back on topic: That moment when the tachikoma messed the robot with a logical paradox, splendid. For a moment I thought they were gonna rebel (with the 2001 like sequence), but major is boss. I'd like to see more of them though, if you explain to them what's the military, and what's an order, I don't see why we shouldn't. |
EratiKDec 22, 2012 8:50 AM
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| Always nice to see more of Tachikomas. However I hope they won't be scrapped becouse they are entertaining as hell. |
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| Their existential crisis is amusing to watch. |
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| Quite a heavy dialogue episode but the talk regarding emotions, humans, and robots was quite interesting. The talk did drag on a bit but still pleasant to watch. |
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| The Tachikomas where great in this episode. I hope they wont scrap them. Even thou Majors concerns have a good reason. Their job is to work for the section 9 as weapons. All in all the episode was enjoyable. |
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| 5/5 An episode that lay ahead full of action and instead goes to investigate the doubts of greater Makoto, the dialogues between the Tachikoma pleasant and enjoyable you also know that the girls androids are not just machines of cold, if you score well despite being limited in their AI able to relate to each other as true of humans as do the Tachikoma. Too hilarious those war machines, curious to know if they can survive or Verrano reset their thinking minds! However, a weapon thinking can not be an avera weapon, because it would be subject to doubt! Maximum grade! *_* |
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| This episode made me recall Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" novel. It is a great thing on the surface, having AIs intellectually powerful enough to communicate and feel like humans do; however, it's really scary to see that they have such potential, having the concept of reverse psychology, emotional intelligence, sentience, and even lip-synching abilities. And for a mere 20 years into the future, it is surprisingly believable that such AI standards can be achieved by then. |
| "If you reject me, I'll blast a hole in you!" Kanzaki H. Aria Just kidding.  |
| Wow, an entire episode on tachikoma talking about philosophy xD But seriously, it was really interresting, the problem of a too much intelligent machine. At that point, they could even rebel... But poor Batou... For him, it's like losing is little kids. |
| «Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie |
| My god these Tachikomas are so adorable and entertaining despite being weapons. I hope they won't scrap them. |
| Amazing how in the main story, it is inserted with arrogance and with much involvement also this subplot, which makes quesa anime series really is a great product. The shape of the Tachikoma is increasingly enhanced, moreover also that of Saito, Batou and the Major. Drawings, animations and dialogues really big-time. |
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| Is it bad if I find the Tachikomas to be more interesting than any other characters in the series ? |
Don't talk to me about character development if Kaizuka Inaho or Slaine Troyard are in your favorites. |
RedgraveGilver said: My god these Tachikomas are so adorable and entertaining despite being weapons. I hope they won't scrap them. ;___; I love how Batou feels like the father of them lol, or at least for one of them. |
| the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include |
| This was by far the most entertaining episode so far, to me. The Tachikomas are already fun and quirky, but their sudden interest in philosophy and the nature of existence was fun. Some of the more interesting ideas I noticed were the presence of a Ghost without a body and the difference between analog/digital (and how they're incompatible no matter how much they become like one another). It is pretty scary given that they're weapons, though. Having them wonder about the nature of their existence, the meaning of life and death, etc. could pose dangerous, and they were already taking measures to protect themselves, however innocent it may seem. While I can empathize with Batou, I think Major made the right call. |
SailorKagome said: Is it bad if I find the Tachikomas to be more interesting than any other characters in the series ? This haha. I haven't felt any other attachment to any other characters other than the tachikoma (maybe batou) I hope they don't get rid of em. |
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| No fun allowed for robots huh? Major's such a hard-ass |
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| Awesome episode. It plays with interesting topics with fun and simplicity, without any sign of pretentiousness. I actually felt really sad at the end of the episode, empathizing with the Tachikomas. |
| It felt like the Tachikomas would say "I'm sorry Batou, I'm afraid i can't do that...." at any point of the episode. |
| I feel sorry for Batou and the Tachikomas, but I get where Motoko is coming from. It would be potentially detrimental to the human race to allow the development of AI. Humans use machines as tools. If said machines were to gain substantial self-awareness, they would rebel against the humans and/or fight for equal rights. Humans would be frightened by this and call for the genocide of ghostless/unnatural existences. All this would lead to prolonged struggle between humans and AI. There will be groups within the humans and AI alike that have clashing beliefs. For instance, some humans will believe that AI deserve equal rights, whereas other humans will want to eliminate AI. On the other hand, some AI will try to see the good in humans, while other AI will view humans as inferior beings. These internal conflicts will only add fuel to the flames of war. |
MischievousGhostDec 27, 2017 11:24 AM
| Tachikomas are awesome :( |
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| Fantastic episode. The Tachikomas' discussions about individuality were simply fascinating. I actually kinda felt bad for them and Batou in the end. |
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