| Its worth mentioning that overall trends would still apply in the same way in this setting. We absolutely will be seeing more (trashy?) isekai Shoujo titles in production and I suspect that this will ramp up massively over the coming years. The anime community has odd blinders when it comes to content produced in, for example, manwha/Ln settings, but the fact that we are seeing even the most appalling and tasteless isekai trope basher garbage being picked up implies to me that the bloated backlog of 'Villianess' titled works will see numerous adaptions, and many of those titles saw plenty of success in their own markets. Its also worth mentioning that overall watching habits across almost all demographics are diversifying, mostly i feel due to lack of content. Many people I know who would never have considered anime at all have several titles under their belts, and typically they are watching the extremely accessible shounen titles, which actually do a pretty good job of catering to a wide audience. Whether you agree with this or not, I personally am looking forward to the mass adaption of the villianess titles because, at the very least, they are not the shallow debased predatory fantasies being pedaled relentlessly to market at the moment. |
RomanceEnjoyer48 said: The current demand in the anime industry is related with genres such as Isekai, Rom-com and Nekketsu. Unfortunately, as long most people demand stuff with those genres, the creation of more shoujo anime will be less probable. The reason for the startling number of isekai titles is not just because of the appeal of the setting. Its shorthand for what to expect from the story. The exact same exists for isekai shoujo titles as well, they just aren't getting the same quantities of adaptions.. yet. Or rather, they are getting produced, less often but increasingly, and I expect this trend to escalate meaningfully into the future. Also, a lot of the titles being released are not popular at all, they are just watched most reliably by the fan base. |
| I'm loving the shoujo and shoujo-adjacent anime we've got this season in Raven in the Inner Palace, Villainess Tames Final Boss and Bibliophile Princess. Hope we get many more. |
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| Well, if they decide to put out more shoujo... I would want a second season of Akatsuki no Yona. 8 years after the anime ended and there is sooooo much manga content, but it still hasn't happened despite it's popularity! Why?! That goes for a lot of shoujo series, but honestly, I just can't get passed the fact that they have yet to make another season of Akatsuki no Yona! T^T |
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reginald11 said: DigiCat said: They are not “meant as shounen". This title was blatantly and obviously from the start meant to appeal to a target audience of young females.And so have other shounen magazines, but guess what, things like Noragami wich have a majority female audience, are in a shounen magazines 'cause they were originally meant as shounen but happened to appeal more to girls, and good for the magazine 'cause that means more people will buy it Yes, 'cause girls are allowed to like shounen you know Do you actually think that an “otome harem” title was ever trying to appeal to males? You're hung up on some name of a magazine that carried that name for 40 years. This isn't the 1980s any more; the name simply stuck and W.S.J. has stopped being what you call a “shounen magazine” two decades ago; they simply never changed the name. You do know there are romance anime targeted to guys right? Shounen romance have different humor, different filming angles, and different storytelling styles that distinguish them from shoujo romance Yes they can be cute, yes girls can like them, but don't go calling them shoujo to then complain about them when a panty shot comes on screen, seriosly the amount of girls/women i've seen complain on this site saying stuff like "why does my shoujo anime have panties and boobs and fanservice made for the male gaze REEEEEEEEEE!!!" it's because you're not watching fucking shoujo All you have to do is look at a few manga panels of Romantic Killer to figure out it's drawn to be a shounen, regardless of if in the end the story might appeal more to girls |
| ehh probably because not all shoujos/shoujo titles appeal to most 'average anime watchers' and animation studios have to actually make money?? think about it. also, nowadays a lot of girls (the 'target demographic' of shoujo) actually watch and prefer shounen or seinen. don't get me wrong tho, there are some very good shoujo shows out there. |
| I am getting a ton of great recommendations from this post! I agree with you soo much, shojo is so underrated. Still waiting for an anime adaptation of High School Debut after a decade. :( Beauty Pop, Cat Street, Kingyosou, Rec:Kimi ga Naita Hi, Hitsuji no Namida, Dengeki Daisy, Hana to Akuma, Aozora Yell.. However it is just unfortunate that the majority of girls now support yaoi anime more than shojo. Not necessarily yaoi but sports/action with bishonen who they can ship. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| I would like more shoujo anime in general but there aren't many shoujo manga I read that I would love an anime adaptation nowadays for immediately besides like Ohayou, Ibarahime or more Ouran High School Host Club (whether a continuation or remake/full adaptation). |
| Yes, but not “otome harems”. Shojo Beat anounced it as “shoujo”, even W.S.J.'s own web-page calls it one, so does Japanese Wikipedia and if you one go look at cmoa.jp and look at the “people that bought this also bought” segment it's clear what it is. [quote]Shounen romance have different humor, different filming angles, and different storytelling styles that distinguish them from shoujo romance Yes they can be cute, yes girls can like them, but don't go calling them shoujo to then complain about them when a panty shot comes on screen, And this doesn't have any of that, did you even watch the trailer? Go look it up on youtube and view the profiles of all the people that say they like it in the comments; they're all female when their gender can be determined from the profile. seriosly the amount of girls/women i've seen complain on this site saying stuff like "why does my shoujo anime have panties and boobs and fanservice made for the male gaze REEEEEEEEEE!!!" it's because you're not watching fucking shoujo Quite so, the kind that read nothing more than titles with female protagonists and male love interests and were very angry at Citrus and Netuzou TRap, for they were titles with female love interests that sexualized female characters, this could not be, because only male characters are allowed to be sexualized in “shoujo” of course.All you have to do is look at a few manga panels of Romantic Killer to figure out it's drawn to be a shounen Or maybe you simply have an outdated understanding of art styles. I think I know the type of art style you refer to but it's been a long while since all art targeting teenage girls looked like that. This is publiished in a magazine, B's Log that claims to have over 99% female readership. Art these days is more varied. The complaint isn't “not having a lot of shoujo anime”; the complaint is not having the type o.p. and you like, which is a different matter. regardless of if in the end the story might appeal more to girls It's not “in the end” but “at the start”; you speak as though this be an accident. The title was from the start written to appeal to young girls; it's marketing campaign targets young girls; and almost all of the readers are young girls. — It's simply not the genre you like, but that doesn't mean the demographic is any different. You've simply lost track of how broad the demographic is nowadays. — Again, consider B's Log, it's a 99% female readership magazine that focuses primarily on video game themed content. |
| I’d love to see more family life shoujo anime, rest I don’t care about. |
| It would be great to see a big resurgence of shoujo, but I'm not sure what can be realistically expected. Still, I'm very pleased to see several shoujo airing this fall. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
BilboBaggins365 said: no way we are pretending that . Even if it is not actually true we actually think that and we are not pretendingI mean is it common to say such things lol? This post really just feels like please anime industry make more what I like and I get that but objectively if shojo manga did sell to the same degree shonen and seinen manga did we would see more. I think last year we had maybe 3 shojo/josei manga in the top 50 sellers the other 47 were shonen/seinen. Granted some like Moriaty the Patriot obviously are also catering to women (the branch of shonen manga going for both demographics may account too as shonen at times feels less like aimed at teen boys and more mass appeal). There hasn't been any big shojo sellers like in the 2000s where manga like Nana where in competition with battle shonen in sales. I have heard that generally women while buy manga at the same rate as men don't watch anime to the same degree. Don't know how true that is but I have seen a few notable shojo manga go to drama adaptions so it may have truth. Ultimately I am all for more demographic and genre variety but the market needs to be there. Women who watch anime tend to now either read/watch shonen/seinen that have wide appeal (Spy x Family) or get pretty borderline in just being shojo (Ancient Magus Bride), otome adaptions/female led modern isekai which we are getting or BL or BL bait. You still need to actually have a few hit titles. If the money is there it will get made. Chole_Bhature said: I think we should stop pretending that anime is getting better day by day Along with people pretending it's getting worse that would be nice. |
You all have to undrestand that Chainsaw man is impossible to adapt without CG. |
| the latest shoujo is about a 26 year old male grooming a 15 year old girl. |
doilyOct 13, 2022 10:11 AM
reginald11 said: Yes, but not “otome harems”. Shojo Beat anounced it as “shoujo”, even W.S.J.'s own web-page calls it one, so does Japanese Wikipedia and if you one go look at cmoa.jp and look at the “people that bought this also bought” segment it's clear what it is. Shounen romance have different humor, different filming angles, and different storytelling styles that distinguish them from shoujo romance Yes they can be cute, yes girls can like them, but don't go calling them shoujo to then complain about them when a panty shot comes on screen, And this doesn't have any of that, did you even watch the trailer? Go look it up on youtube and view the profiles of all the people that say they like it in the comments; they're all female when their gender can be determined from the profile. Quite so, the kind that read nothing more than titles with female protagonists and male love interests and were very angry at Citrus and Netuzou TRap, for they were titles with female love interests that sexualized female characters, this could not be, because only male characters are allowed to be sexualized in “shoujo” of course. Or maybe you simply have an outdated understanding of art styles. I think I know the type of art style you refer to but it's been a long while since all art targeting teenage girls looked like that. This is publiished in a magazine, B's Log that claims to have over 99% female readership. Art these days is more varied. The complaint isn't “not having a lot of shoujo anime”; the complaint is not having the type o.p. and you like, which is a different matter. It's not “in the end” but “at the start”; you speak as though this be an accident. The title was from the start written to appeal to young girls; it's marketing campaign targets young girls; and almost all of the readers are young girls. — It's simply not the genre you like, but that doesn't mean the demographic is any different. You've simply lost track of how broad the demographic is nowadays. — Again, consider B's Log, it's a 99% female readership magazine that focuses primarily on video game themed content. I'm not talking about the artstyle, but about certain angles things are drawn in a way to appeal to guys Of course Women are allowed to be sexy in shoujo, but it's gonna be drawn from a woman's perspective It's 100% normal that shounen, target audience male, is gonna draw women in a way that's desireble, and shoujo, target audience female, is gonna draw men in a way that's desireble And there's many other things which are done differently with shounen and shoujo Take battle shounen for example and compare it to something like Precure, which could be considered a battle shoujo, both are action genre, but there gonna be distinc differences between the way battles look in something like MHA (shounen) vs how they look in Precure (shoujo) And that's just a general idea, there's also gonna be exeptions, experiments, which don't follow similar paterns we usually see And where the hell did you come up with the idea that i'm complaining about not getting the shoujo i like?? I don't even like most typical shoujo anime |
| OP I am afraid we are entering an era where most of the shoujo you will get is generic villainess crap which female version of male generic power fantasy :V However i agree with everyone of your points love your posts as always Edit -also once again someone in comments tried to justified why a trashy female villainess shit is better than trashy generic male isekai bro they both trash catered for differnet audience to enoy just admit. |
AnimeFA78NOct 13, 2022 10:56 AM
| There may be fewer shoujo anime than in the past, but girls don't watch shoujo exclusively! With newer titles like Astra Lost in Space, Cute High Earth Defense Club, Vanitas, Norn9, Osomatsu, and Yuri On Ice, I don't believe the amount of anime that appeals to girls has changed. The English manga market has always sucked. Shoujo are far from the only manga to go out of print after being improperly advertised. Xenophon01 said: Now I am starting to wonder why they never were called Shoujotards. That is because they are outnumbered by shounentards. |
| その目だれの目？ |
DigiCat said: Hahaha yup! Thank you and @GlennMagusHarvey for your support!!@Fario-P, the title wasn't inspired by another thread gaining lots of traction here on MAL, was it? 😂 Though i'm not that into shoujo myself, i do agree the number and quality of shoujo released today has dropped, the golden age of shoujo were the 90s/2000s Sorry @Crow_Black, the references weren't to TWEWY, it was just said thread DigiCat's referring to and some of that OP's replies. Will be sure to make up for it later though ;) ...for now, I have so many replies to make lol... |
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| K-drama killed it forever (at least for the overseas market) |
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DigiCat said: Then give me some concrete examples of such, because you're going up against a tall mountain here. The facts are:I'm not talking about the artstyle, but about certain angles things are drawn in a way to appeal to guys - It is licensed by Shojo Beat - Almost all of it's fans seem to be female, judging from comment sections and “people who bought this also bought..." sections a book stores - Shonen Jump+ calls it “syouzyomanga” in it's Japanese description field - It is an “otome harem”. You go up against this with some subjective argument that “the panneling” implies it must be “designed for boys” without giving an example, going up against a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Of course Women are allowed to be sexy in shoujo, but it's gonna be drawn from a woman's perspective This title has a female protagonist and is written from said's protagonist's perspective.It's 100% normal that shounen, target audience male, is gonna draw women in a way that's desireble, and shoujo, target audience female, is gonna draw men in a way that's desireble You'd be surprised how many female-targeted stories exist where all male characters are irredeemable, undesirable scumbags and so are the female ons there at any case. Misery porn is quite popular in that demographic.And there's many other things which are done differently with shounen and shoujo Then come with a specific example about this title. Because from where I'm standing, it's clearly designed to appeal to young girls, as are all the other 7 titles I quoted, and on point to your point, one of the reasons is indeed the characters designs of the male characters in all of them, which the promotional material heavily emphasizees.Take battle shounen for example and compare it to something like Precure, which could be considered a battle shoujo, both are action genre, but there gonna be distinc differences between the way battles look in something like MHA (shounen) vs how they look in Precure (shoujo) And that's just a general idea, there's also gonna be exeptions, experiments, which don't follow similar paterns we usually see  Surely you don't actually believe this kind of promotional material is designed to appeal to males, do you? |
Catalano said: Funny you mention Fruits Basket as an example here, because Crunchyroll apparently also did the same at one point.I can't understand why shoujo manga isn't adapted anymore considering that there is still a big audience for that, just look at Orange and what happened after the anime (it was already famous when it was manga only though), it received 2 sequel volumes and they made a movie out of vol6. Kimi no Todoke ran for 30 volumes, also receiving bonus chapters after the end. There is basically n ogood reason as to not adapt shoujo manga, the money reason fails, the popularity reason fails (look at how well received frubas was, it also got a sequel movie). I say it's a trend thing, bigshots just wanna invest in easy stuff like isekai and shounen, hell we don't even get ecchi anime nowadays. In conclusion, we need variety in anime not for the sake of variety but because people would certainly watch that as proven above. Crunchyroll: Shojo Anime Genre Has Strong Growth Potential posted on 2022-03-31 11:45 EDT by Kim Morrissy Titles aimed at female audiences over-perform due to unmet demand from low supply Crunchyroll held a business seminar on Tuesday aimed at Japanese businesses. Part of the presentation centered on explaining current consumer trends in the west based on the service's viewership numbers. Chief Customer Officer Asa Suehira explained that while shonen battle anime and "isekai" fantasy series continue to dominate, anime aimed at a female audience have strong growth potential. He stated that these titles tend to over-perform due to unmet demand from low supply, citing Fruits Basket as an example. "In the west, where female anime fans were underserved with relevant content historically, shojo, josei, and even some BL titles are showing stronger performances than expected," he said. Fans of idol anime shouldn't get their hopes up, however, as female-targeted idol anime were singled out as the exception to this trend. Nevertheless, Crunchyroll's data indicates that tastes among anime fans are becoming more varied, although Suehira did note that it can be harder to predict which of those titles will become hits. He also remarked that well-produced romantic comedies aimed at male audiences, such as My Dress-Up Darling, have also been on the rise in recent years, with such titles even cracking the top 5 in a given season. And yeah, it is most certainly a trend thing since it's easy to lazily cash from a heavily beaten zombie horse like frickin isekai. |
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| With shit like JJK and CSM people have started to shift towards shonen. I find it rather sad that Shoujo is being gutted for this. |
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jal90 said: I like how you attributed that quote to me when it's actually directly lifted from part of the bait thread I was parodying in the first place lmaooooCatalano said: are you trying to annoy her? the only shoujo there is the first one, which is adapted from a shoujo LN, the rest aren't shoujo It's not completely pointless when the OP is missing them in her rant. Saying this: "Anime is just trashy isekais, generic shonen, badly animated CGI fests, and big titties on display now". But seriously though, where's the proof that those other anime that Sphinxter alt reginald11 are shoujo? Were those licensed in a magazine confirmed by producers to be "shoujo"? Because I sure as hell didn't hear anything about that for these ones. I already pointed out that Romantic Killer isn't even shoujo, as despite whatever intention the author may have supposedly had the series was still published in Shonen Jump+ and is therefore technically a shounen. Whatever demographic something is, whether it's shoujo, shounen, seinen, josei, or kodomo, is not based on specific storytelling style or what we personally believe. Demographic tags are strictly decided by marketing choices made by the people producing these magazines in Japan. Not the fans, and certainly not us reading these stories from overseas. I do agree that we should still hold out some hope for classic shoujo to return sometime soon though. |
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Xenophon01 said: Sure I may be delusional, but "what imaginary injustice"?I never realized Shoujo fans were so obsessive as Shounen fans, often every week there is one topic like this claiming a imaginary injustice agaisnt the genre, not understanding the reasons of such events in the actual market is obviously a coping mechanism from them, delusional in every way. Now I am starting to wonder why they never were called Shoujotards. That's a bit of an exaggerated term there, but are you saying that you deny there's a drought of shoujo? You clearly haven't even clicked on the button I put at the very top of my original post... |
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Fario-P said: jal90 said: I like how you attributed that quote to me when it's actually directly lifted from part of the bait thread I was parodying in the first place lmaooooIt's not completely pointless when the OP is missing them in her rant. Saying this: "Anime is just trashy isekais, generic shonen, badly animated CGI fests, and big titties on display now". Oh sorry, seems I misread. But seriously though, where's the proof that those other anime that Sphinxter alt reginald11 are shoujo? Were those licensed in a magazine confirmed by producers to be "shoujo"? Because I sure as hell didn't hear anything about that for these ones. I already pointed out that Romantic Killer isn't even shoujo, as despite whatever intention the author may have supposedly had the series was still published in Shonen Jump+ and is therefore technically a shounen. Whatever demographic something is, whether it's shoujo, shounen, seinen, josei, or kodomo, is not based on specific storytelling style or what we personally believe. Demographic tags are strictly decided by marketing choices made by the people producing these magazines in Japan. Not the fans, and certainly not us reading these stories from overseas. Where's the proof that many of the titles that are classified as shonen or seinen for simple adjacent association are actually shonen and seinen? Romantic Killer was a bad example, I didn't know the specifics but once they are clear it's hard to deny. But the rest? Otome adaptations, male idol, bishonen sports shows? Those are the modern readings the industry has on what is a product for female audiences. And many of them may be original productions, or adapted from a game or any other source that does not have a clear, well established demographic tag that only seems to work for certain written media anyway. There's another branch of considerations we could make about the actual use of demographic tags when the anime audiences and the manga audiences do not fully overlap, or even when these tags are more theme than content related, or in the case of Shonen Jump, when the magazine is so insanely popular across demographics that the "shonen" value is little more than a Wiki curiosity. But those are tangential topics. Main point here I wanted to make is: the tag given by an original source that has a clear system of demographic tags is not the only way to classify anime, specially not the ones that are not based on a manga that is properly classified, as for boys or for girls. But on most of what you say I do agree and it's a shame that we don't have tons of proper adaptations of shojo works that are not exactly unpopular. |
| Shojo is a manga terminology. Most people here thinks light novel (along with boy band originals) are shojo. It just straight out embarrassing. |
AdampkOct 14, 2022 5:38 AM
  Click for a anime mashup! Still not gone bandwagon u, keep crying. Here u are welcome to CRINGE at my EXISTENCE |
|betaweeb said: That's great to hear that you're open to trying out shoujo! ✩though i haven't experienced as many shoujo series as i have some other demographics, i'm interested in (slowly) changing that and i would love if classic shoujo titles that i haven't read\heard about would get quality and high profile adaptations, reprints that get some marketing pushes and so on. i will say though, that whenever i shadow frequent these threads, i find a lot of the responses to be toxic and they kind of turn me off trying to engage with these fans in any attempt to learn what might be there in the demographic for me, as not unliike most other MAL users, a lot of the time instead of trying to further any kind of positivity regarding this part of the fandom, that they supposedly love and are a part of, people seem more interested in flexing and saying how more recent shoujo series suck (such as the ones i've mentioned that i adore) and how that one manga from the 70's the no one but them has ever heard about is a hundred times better than those popular ones that made me interested in this demographic in the first place. Hearing about some of the negativity you may have seen is a bit disheartening though. Was I one of those people by any chance? I admit I can get real snobby sometimes, but I have been trying to give newer shoujo a bit of a chance if possible. Sorry if I ended up souring your perception on shoujo and the shoujo manga community in anyway. regardless and as i've stated, i'm interested in experiencing and supporting more shoujo series. not too long ago i purchased half of kitchen princess physically (and the rest digitally since it wasn't available physically in a reasonable price) and really liked it and got to read a couple others through kindle unlimited which were alright, though i do prefer to read and own physical volumes, as you might conclude from what i wrote. Wow, you're welcome! I'm glad we agree, especially on how good Kitchen Princess is!! Do you agree that Kitchen Princess deserves an anime adaptation? I love the manga so much, so I'm curious to see any further thoughts you have on the series.so, thanks for putting together these threads, that always seem like a lot of thought and effort were poured into them and to answer your question, yes, i really hope both the industry and the community would stop pretending we don't need shoujos, as we definitely do, or at least i do.  maybe some high profile videos from more mainstream anitubers could help, though honestly i don't really know what could spark a real shoujo anime renaissance other than some massive commercial mega hit, but i hope that it happens. Yeah, probably.Like @Crow_Black said, there is Colleen's Manga Recs, and I did link to The Anime Tea earlier, but I don't know anyone else who talks about shoujo as much. Oh, and I see you have Twin Spica and Full Moon on your Plan To Read list! Hope you get around to them cuz they're more of my favorites!!!  |
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Fario-P said: betaweeb said: That's great to hear that you're open to trying out shoujo! ✩though i haven't experienced as many shoujo series as i have some other demographics, i'm interested in (slowly) changing that and i would love if classic shoujo titles that i haven't read\heard about would get quality and high profile adaptations, reprints that get some marketing pushes and so on. i will say though, that whenever i shadow frequent these threads, i find a lot of the responses to be toxic and they kind of turn me off trying to engage with these fans in any attempt to learn what might be there in the demographic for me, as not unliike most other MAL users, a lot of the time instead of trying to further any kind of positivity regarding this part of the fandom, that they supposedly love and are a part of, people seem more interested in flexing and saying how more recent shoujo series suck (such as the ones i've mentioned that i adore) and how that one manga from the 70's the no one but them has ever heard about is a hundred times better than those popular ones that made me interested in this demographic in the first place. Hearing about some of the negativity you may have seen is a bit disheartening though. Was I one of those people by any chance? I admit I can get real snobby sometimes, but I have been trying to give newer shoujo a bit of a chance if possible. Sorry if I ended up souring your perception on shoujo and the shoujo manga community in anyway. regardless and as i've stated, i'm interested in experiencing and supporting more shoujo series. not too long ago i purchased half of kitchen princess physically (and the rest digitally since it wasn't available physically in a reasonable price) and really liked it and got to read a couple others through kindle unlimited which were alright, though i do prefer to read and own physical volumes, as you might conclude from what i wrote. Wow, you're welcome! I'm glad we agree, especially on how good Kitchen Princess is!! Do you agree that Kitchen Princess deserves an anime adaptation? I love the manga so much, so I'm curious to see any further thoughts you have on the series.so, thanks for putting together these threads, that always seem like a lot of thought and effort were poured into them and to answer your question, yes, i really hope both the industry and the community would stop pretending we don't need shoujos, as we definitely do, or at least i do. maybe some high profile videos from more mainstream anitubers could help, though honestly i don't really know what could spark a real shoujo anime renaissance other than some massive commercial mega hit, but i hope that it happens. Yeah, probably.Like @Crow_Black said, there is Colleen's Manga Recs, and I did link to The Anime Tea earlier, but I don't know anyone else who talks about shoujo as much. Oh, and I see you have Twin Spica and Full Moon on your Plan To Read list! Hope you get around to them cuz they're more of my favorites!!! no need to apologize for anything! i don't really remember a particularly negative comment by you, but in general i wasn't aiming to blame individuals and rather just made that point in the hopes of explaining some of my problems with the discussion on the topic, which i believe can be healthier and benefit from such improvements. a kitchen princess adaptation could be great and would also be a much easier medium to point to, in order to get some of my friends that would probably be hard pressed to read the manga, to enjoy the series. another reason that i think it's a good idea, is the series' length, which means it could probably be adapted in like a two cour season and so it wouldn't need massive success to be green-lit for further seasons and then risk being in adaptation limbo like many other shows. on the other hand, i don't think it's the series that would open the gates for other shoujo adaptations, since it does rely a bit on tropes and though i personally like cinnamon-bun can do protagonists and think tropes are fine as long as they are well executed, i don't know whether audiences would appreciate that identical looks sub plot, the manipulative queen of the class that eventually gets won over by najika and so on. though there's definitely potential to animate all the different dishes in a cool way and anime fans really seem to like tear-jerkers which kitchen princess becomes at some point, alongside being a great wholesome series. yeah, crow black was very cordial in responding to that point, though to be honest i was more intending on how the really popular anitubers could use their influence for good for once, rather than just follow trends, but they might be inspired in turn by the ones you've mentioned. and yeah, i'll probably read those at some point and it's more than likely they're there due to a thread like this one, but i don't think it's gonna be soon since prints of them don't seem to be out and about and i have a lot of manga "projects" at hand, though at some point for sure, thanks again! |
| We need more manly anime about manly men. What we have now is almost nothing. Instead of gritty, stoic men we get prissy romcom protagonists, dull shounen/isekai self-insert mannequins, or moe shit with no male cast at all. And you say we need more girls? GIVE US MEN ALREADY. |
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Crow_Black said: And speaking of digi, i have to remind @digicat you have to watch dead leaves,hells and redline its trippy af and a big mind fuck, but its such a wild trip. I've watched Redline, freaking awesome movie, definitely one of my favs :D Still have to get to Dead Leaves, never heard about Hells, what it about? reginald11 said: DigiCat said: Then give me some concrete examples of such, because you're going up against a tall mountain here. The facts are:I'm not talking about the artstyle, but about certain angles things are drawn in a way to appeal to guys - It is licensed by Shojo Beat - Almost all of it's fans seem to be female, judging from comment sections and “people who bought this also bought..." sections a book stores - Shonen Jump+ calls it “syouzyomanga” in it's Japanese description field - It is an “otome harem”. You go up against this with some subjective argument that “the panneling” implies it must be “designed for boys” without giving an example, going up against a mountain of evidence to the contrary. Of course Women are allowed to be sexy in shoujo, but it's gonna be drawn from a woman's perspective This title has a female protagonist and is written from said's protagonist's perspective.It's 100% normal that shounen, target audience male, is gonna draw women in a way that's desireble, and shoujo, target audience female, is gonna draw men in a way that's desireble You'd be surprised how many female-targeted stories exist where all male characters are irredeemable, undesirable scumbags and so are the female ons there at any case. Misery porn is quite popular in that demographic.And there's many other things which are done differently with shounen and shoujo Then come with a specific example about this title. Because from where I'm standing, it's clearly designed to appeal to young girls, as are all the other 7 titles I quoted, and on point to your point, one of the reasons is indeed the characters designs of the male characters in all of them, which the promotional material heavily emphasizees.Take battle shounen for example and compare it to something like Precure, which could be considered a battle shoujo, both are action genre, but there gonna be distinc differences between the way battles look in something like MHA (shounen) vs how they look in Precure (shoujo) And that's just a general idea, there's also gonna be exeptions, experiments, which don't follow similar paterns we usually see Surely you don't actually believe this kind of promotional material is designed to appeal to males, do you? Yes, it's licensed by shoujo beats 'cause it's profitable for them to do so, 'cause it became super popular among girls Also why the anime poster has an aestetic more appealing to girls, compare to the manga covers, which although not in an egsagerated way, have more elements of a typical shonen romance cover And if when the anime airs it does end up being a shoujo, it's also not unheard of that a shounen property gets a shoujo adaptation A clear example of this is Code Geass, anime original which released as a shounen, later got adapted into a shoujo manga, the plot, the story, the characters, are still the same, but the style is slightly changed to appeal to a different audience Battle scenes with Kallen in the anime are mostly shown from an angle that accentuate her boobs, in the manga she still looks like her, she still has the same tight fitting outfit, but she's not drawn in a way to make her look seductive On the other hand, the manga which is shoujo, is drawn in a way that looks much more romanticized, with effects that make the characters look like they're glowing or sparkling, while the anime a shounen has a much more gritty style It's also entirely possible that Romantic Killer, like other shounen popular with girls before it, will simply be adapted into a shounen Things like Noragami and Black Butler didn't have to change themselves into shoujo when being adapted to anime, because they already appealed to girls just the way they are |
DigiCat said: Crow_Black said: And speaking of digi, i have to remind @digicat you have to watch dead leaves,hells and redline its trippy af and a big mind fuck, but its such a wild trip. I've watched Redline, freaking awesome movie, definitely one of my favs :D Still have to get to Dead Leaves, never heard about Hells, what it about? reginald11 said: Then give me some concrete examples of such, because you're going up against a tall mountain here. The facts are: - It is licensed by Shojo Beat - Almost all of it's fans seem to be female, judging from comment sections and “people who bought this also bought..." sections a book stores - Shonen Jump+ calls it “syouzyomanga” in it's Japanese description field - It is an “otome harem”. You go up against this with some subjective argument that “the panneling” implies it must be “designed for boys” without giving an example, going up against a mountain of evidence to the contrary. This title has a female protagonist and is written from said's protagonist's perspective. You'd be surprised how many female-targeted stories exist where all male characters are irredeemable, undesirable scumbags and so are the female ons there at any case. Misery porn is quite popular in that demographic. Then come with a specific example about this title. Because from where I'm standing, it's clearly designed to appeal to young girls, as are all the other 7 titles I quoted, and on point to your point, one of the reasons is indeed the characters designs of the male characters in all of them, which the promotional material heavily emphasizees. Surely you don't actually believe this kind of promotional material is designed to appeal to males, do you? Yes, it's licensed by shoujo beats 'cause it's profitable for them to do so, 'cause it became super popular among girls Also why the anime poster has an aestetic more appealing to girls, compare to the manga covers, which although not in an egsagerated way, have more elements of a typical shonen romance cover And if when the anime airs it does end up being a shoujo, it's also not unheard of that a shounen property gets a shoujo adaptation A clear example of this is Code Geass, anime original which released as a shounen, later got adapted into a shoujo manga, the plot, the story, the characters, are still the same, but the style is slightly changed to appeal to a different audience Battle scenes with Kallen in the anime are mostly shown from an angle that accentuate her boobs, in the manga she still looks like her, she still has the same tight fitting outfit, but she's not drawn in a way to make her look seductive On the other hand, the manga which is shoujo, is drawn in a way that looks much more romanticized, with effects that make the characters look like they're glowing or sparkling, while the anime a shounen has a much more gritty style It's also entirely possible that Romantic Killer, like other shounen popular with girls before it, will simply be adapted into a shounen Things like Noragami and Black Butler didn't have to change themselves into shoujo when being adapted to anime, because they already appealed to girls just the way they are Redline is such an underated gem, and i love the universe of Redline as well too and i highly rec it to anyone. And Dead Leaves i've said before is by the Trigger team before they formed Trigger when they were in production i.g. Now for Hells, its also by Madhouse who also did Redline as well too and like i mentioned, and its like Angel Beats its like that but on drugs because of so much trippy shit happening like that dodgeball scene and its a huge must watch imo and the artist for the series also worked on pokemon colliseum as well iirc. And yeah i highly reccomend it and i also convinced Fario to watch it as well too because of how wild it is. So do give hells a watch and feel free to ping me as well for recs if you need it. |
betaweeb said: Fario-P said: That's great to hear that you're open to trying out shoujo! ✩ Hearing about some of the negativity you may have seen is a bit disheartening though. Was I one of those people by any chance? I admit I can get real snobby sometimes, but I have been trying to give newer shoujo a bit of a chance if possible. Sorry if I ended up souring your perception on shoujo and the shoujo manga community in anyway. Wow, you're welcome! I'm glad we agree, especially on how good Kitchen Princess is!! Do you agree that Kitchen Princess deserves an anime adaptation? I love the manga so much, so I'm curious to see any further thoughts you have on the series. Yeah, probably. Like @Crow_Black said, there is Colleen's Manga Recs, and I did link to The Anime Tea earlier, but I don't know anyone else who talks about shoujo as much. Oh, and I see you have Twin Spica and Full Moon on your Plan To Read list! Hope you get around to them cuz they're more of my favorites!!! no need to apologize for anything! i don't really remember a particularly negative comment by you, but in general i wasn't aiming to blame individuals and rather just made that point in the hopes of explaining some of my problems with the discussion on the topic, which i believe can be healthier and benefit from such improvements. a kitchen princess adaptation could be great and would also be a much easier medium to point to, in order to get some of my friends that would probably be hard pressed to read the manga, to enjoy the series. another reason that i think it's a good idea, is the series' length, which means it could probably be adapted in like a two cour season and so it wouldn't need massive success to be green-lit for further seasons and then risk being in adaptation limbo like many other shows. on the other hand, i don't think it's the series that would open the gates for other shoujo adaptations, since it does rely a bit on tropes and though i personally like cinnamon-bun can do protagonists and think tropes are fine as long as they are well executed, i don't know whether audiences would appreciate that identical looks sub plot, the manipulative queen of the class that eventually gets won over by najika and so on. though there's definitely potential to animate all the different dishes in a cool way and anime fans really seem to like tear-jerkers which kitchen princess becomes at some point, alongside being a great wholesome series. yeah, crow black was very cordial in responding to that point, though to be honest i was more intending on how the really popular anitubers could use their influence for good for once, rather than just follow trends, but they might be inspired in turn by the ones you've mentioned. and yeah, i'll probably read those at some point and it's more than likely they're there due to a thread like this one, but i don't think it's gonna be soon since prints of them don't seem to be out and about and i have a lot of manga "projects" at hand, though at some point for sure, thanks again! there's also shoujo and tell and shoujo sundae and here's the channel links as well too https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTw7FaWSA9_bNRI9HGx8_Pg https://www.youtube.com/c/ShojoTellAMangaPodcast |
| Eh, in all honesty, I think I've only found one that was worth watching... That being My next life as a Villainess. |
DreadfulControl said: I sure do hope you turn around to at least give Cardcaptor Sakura and Princess Tutu a chance, they're two of the best in the mahou shoujo genre for sure!Idc if there will be more shoujo or not, romance is my least favourite genre after all and the majority of shoujo anime is romance and mahou shoujo which is really not my thing but one day I try Cardcaptor Sakura and Princess Tutu |
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logopolis said: Honestly. A truly honest response that I feel like I can't even say myself.We need better shoujo anime. Its golden age was the late 90s and early 00s. Kodocha, Utena, KareKano, CCS, Furuba, Princess Tutu. All amongst the best anime ever made. But in the last 20 years, there's been nothing to compare. "Shoujo" nowadays seems to be synonymous with milquetoast romances and the occasional remake. The whole thing seems to have lost any confidence to even try to make the new best anime ever. Even stuff from that past era I don't think is quite as successful like Fushigi Yuugi or 12 Kingdoms, it is at least trying, aiming for that big scope. Shoujo anime nowadays is just timid. And it's unhealthy for the medium. One of the strengths of anime as a medium used to be that you got the deepest, darkest hopes and fears of both boys and girls in the same area, coming together and intermingling and producing alchemy. You don't get that any more. I seriously hate trying to look up videos talking about shoujo anime/manga and recommendations only to get a ton of romance manga recommendations for the most. Yes, I will admit that romance takes up a good amount of stories for the demographic... but shoujo ≠ romance. There are shoujo manga that don't really focus on romance and some that still have a bit of it but it isn't as big of a focus. Why aren't people talking about those manga? Why isn't the industry adapting some of said manga? Like, most of Kaori Yuki's works are explicitly marketed as shoujo and she primarily works with horror. Sure, maybe some romance and even BL, but still mainly gothic and/or horror; like I just read the first volume of Grand Guignol Orchestra and there is NO romance at all in it, just a whole bunch of bloody zombies and morbid imagery/implications depicted with Yuki's signature art style. So why aren't people giving her the attention that she honestly deserves just based on her unique niches alone? Is it that people just like sticking to stereotypes and generalizations cuz it's easier than actually trying to broaden their horizons or something? Seriously, what are you people doing?? Anyway anyway anyway... I definitely need to watch/read more shoujo as you do and I really resonated with those last two sentences. Honestly damn well written. ✶ |
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