| Anime exists within a political context, not in a vacuum. You can't talk fanservice or anime tropes in a serious manner without the political background, and anime itself wouldn't exist without politics. Mecha genre is heavily political. Even magical girls must have been some political metaphor. It's not a surprise that the mushroom cloud is a common symbolism in anime. There's a reason that anime heavily promotes 'nakama', against individualism. There's a reason anime MC's aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type. There's a reason why the anime industry markets to certain types of fans, using certain price models, etc. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Politics are a part of everything, I don't really like any environment where people feel that certain subjects cannot be discussed. |
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| It gets discussed in some of the other forums, such as Current Events, so there are places where holding those discussions is allowed. I'd much prefer to keep it out of the anime/manga forums, except maybe insofar as politics is an element in the works being discussed. |
A møøse once bit my sister... |
| Because it typically ends in an argument. |
 It’s okay to look back at the past, just don’t stare too long |
| Mythologically hit it right on the money. To add though, I think part of the reason people hate it being brought up so much is the fact that talking about politics on the internet almost always turns into an endless circlejerk. Nobody listens to the other side, and no meaningful discussion can be had. Plus, many people find politics outside of the most polarizing issues to be as boring as wheat cereal. |
| Do you dispute that anime protagonists are usually the stupid but has that mysterious quality that allows them to make a lot of friends archetype? In nearly every anime, especially shounen anime, the protagonists usually act on ideals, with lines such as "I don't know anything but I know that's not right", whereas the antagonists are more practical and utilitarian. Why do you think that is, that virtues are promoted over sacrificing for the greater good? Could it be because of the social-political structure in Japan and how dependent it is on familial and social order? That the country literally survives due to private investment of government bonds, or that a person is expected to contribute to corporate welfare as part of a community? Hating politics in anime is like hating subtext in a book. If you read Animal Farm and thought it was actually about animals and not communism, then you didn't understand the book at all. Likewise, if you watch anime with your brain turned off, then you probably didn't understand half of your favorite shows at all. You thought Brittania vs Elevens was all just a coincidence. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
HopefulNihilist said: But people online argue all the time about much smaller things like anime, and they never come to an agreement. We’re constantly surrounded by endless arguments about politics, and it wears down on people. It gets a lot more exhausting when it’s something like that affects people in real life, and arguing about silly opinions on things we like feels a lot safer. That’s not to say I think political discussion of anime shouldn’t happen: I really think it should, and people should challenge themselves to talk about it. But I understand the sentiment. |
| art is use a political tool too and anime is art so ye i do not see whats wrong |
katsucats said: There isn't a political metaphor intended for everything (some things, but not all things), though one can certainly try to read a political metaphor for anything. Won't necessarily result in a clean or sensible interpretation.Anime exists within a political context, not in a vacuum. You can't talk fanservice or anime tropes in a serious manner without the political background, and anime itself wouldn't exist without politics. Mecha genre is heavily political. Even magical girls must have been some political metaphor. It's not a surprise that the mushroom cloud is a common symbolism in anime. There's a reason that anime heavily promotes 'nakama', against individualism. There's a reason anime MC's aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type. There's a reason why the anime industry markets to certain types of fans, using certain price models, etc. For example: if you seriously think the "nakama" trope is propaganda against individualism, then every single sports team and every poster that promotes teamwork in existence is also propaganda against individualism, and...actually they're not and you're just nuts. Issmail22Lawfy said: lol, by that definition every person who comes to AD concern-trolling about the death of anime is an SJW.SJW is not someone who fights for right SJW is someone who fights for pathetic things and stop talking about hypocritical things especialy politics... it make you sound like a gay. also what's wrong with sounding like a gay Luna_Estlin said: <The_Mask> SSSSSSSSSMOKIN'!!Because it typically ends in an argument. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Worst experience I had is checking the episode 1 discussion for the currently airing Carole & Tuesday. Some weeaboos calling it SJW libtard propaganda even though that didn't seem to be aim of the anime at all. Maybe they're just racist and don't want any white or black characters in anime. Only seen episode 1 but from what I could tell and remember it was a setup for some genuine storytelling to bad if your god Ben Shapiro forbids you to enjoy it. I think it's just fear for something that afai know doesn't exist in anime (yet lol). |
| poop |
Zoroft said: If I may let out some steam for a moment...Most people are too stupid to talk about actual politics, they're just pushing tribal agendas instead so it's fucking obnoxious. Yeah, so many times when people talk politics on the internet it's like BLAH BLAH BLAH IDENTITY POLITICS BLAH BLAH BLAH RACISM SEXISM REPRESENTATION BLAH BLAH BLAH TRIGGERED SJW CUCK NORMIES BLAH BLAH BLAH. For someone (such as myself) who's actually interested in public policy, these sorts of arguments are the stupid and "oh gosh why the fuck are people arguing over this bullshit again" end of the scale of political importance. But for some reason people seem to enjoy blowing these crazy out of proportion. Oh I forgot the second version of this. That one is BLAH BLAH BLAH IDEOLOGIES BLAH BLAH BLAH LIBERALS CONSERVATIVES FAR-LEFT ALT-RIGHT BLAH BLAH BLAH COMMUNISM BAD BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPITALISM BAD BLAH BLAH BLAH. Different flavor, same stupid. Oh by the way, "centrism" is just another flavor of stupid. They're all just labels. All that actually matters is the actual policies that end up being implemented. The axis of political ideas is just a convenient thing by which people get to argue. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Politics shouldn't be involved in Anime, like literally it's already enough of a problem that Sony is becoming too PC so seeing that with Anime would be really shitty since no artistic medium should be held down by any political ideal. |
  Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
Mythologically said: I never said everything is politically motivated, only that anime isn't insulated from politics. Shounen and shoujo anime are probably about 90% of anime, so everything might be blatantly false except when it's not.katsucats said: Yeah idc about your bullshit "everything is politically motivated" thing. I only care about the part I specifically quoted. Your blanket statement applies to literally only battle shounens and maybe shoujo romances. Other than that it's just blatantly false.Do you dispute that anime protagonists are usually the stupid but has that mysterious quality that allows them to make a lot of friends archetype? GlennMagusHarvey said: That's called the reduction to the absurd fallacy. That's precisely why you can't take the politics out of a medium, or you risk mischaracterizing it with no nuance. In anime, protagonists often appeal to ignorance when defending their actions, and appeal to virtues when explaining why actions are wrong. They go extensively out of their way to do so. This isn't just teamwork is important, but teamwork is the most important fact of my life. It's important to notice the value system that's a commonality among most anime, and to ignore such an obvious thread is nuts.katsucats said: There isn't a political metaphor intended for everything (some things, but not all things), though one can certainly try to read a political metaphor for anything. Won't necessarily result in a clean or sensible interpretation.Anime exists within a political context, not in a vacuum. You can't talk fanservice or anime tropes in a serious manner without the political background, and anime itself wouldn't exist without politics. Mecha genre is heavily political. Even magical girls must have been some political metaphor. It's not a surprise that the mushroom cloud is a common symbolism in anime. There's a reason that anime heavily promotes 'nakama', against individualism. There's a reason anime MC's aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type. There's a reason why the anime industry markets to certain types of fans, using certain price models, etc. For example: if you seriously think the "nakama" trope is propaganda against individualism, then every single sports team and every poster that promotes teamwork in existence is also propaganda against individualism, and...actually they're not and you're just nuts. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| No....... i'm enjoyed that. Seeing many hilarious comment especialy with politics always make my day |
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katsucats said: Well of course one can call this a value system and say that this value system obviously considers friendship to be a positive, but considering that the vast majority of people agree, in an entirely non-ideological but simply human way, that it feels nice (and is probably beneficial in various ways) to have friends, and that it feels nicer to have connections to others than to be alone, this is hardly a political statement. (It's like saying it's a political statement to want to enjoy tasty food.)GlennMagusHarvey said: That's called the reduction to the absurd fallacy. That's precisely why you can't take the politics out of a medium, or you risk mischaracterizing it with no nuance. In anime, protagonists often appeal to ignorance when defending their actions, and appeal to virtues when explaining why actions are wrong. They go extensively out of their way to do so. This isn't just teamwork is important, but teamwork is the most important fact of my life. It's important to notice the value system that's a commonality among most anime, and to ignore such an obvious thread is nuts.There isn't a political metaphor intended for everything (some things, but not all things), though one can certainly try to read a political metaphor for anything. Won't necessarily result in a clean or sensible interpretation. For example: if you seriously think the "nakama" trope is propaganda against individualism, then every single sports team and every poster that promotes teamwork in existence is also propaganda against individualism, and...actually they're not and you're just nuts. Again, one can certainly read this particular trope as political statement that says that teamwork is more important than individualism, but that's not necessarily the intended reading. In fact, in pretty much every adventuring party, every cast of main characters, every sentai team, and so on, individualism also abounds. Sentai teams are famously color-coded and often have different weapons and other attributes. There are the different RPG-style character classes. And in any show with a big cast one can see how every character is given distinctive attributes that let them cut their own profile in a way that is not like anyone else in the rest of the group (with a few exceptions such as twins). So while one can interpret the nakama trope as promoting team spirit and discouraging individualism, this interpretation flies in the face of the presentation of pretty much every such story, which simultaneously have a number of individualistic features. Sure, there's the usual notion/stereotype that Japanese culture values social harmony over individualism, but -- like you say -- it's actually much more nuanced than that, and thus such a simplistic interpretation neglects many dimensions and details. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Because talking about politics on the internet will 90% of the time result in actual arguments. People just won't listen to eachother. Really, the most toxic threads are almost always the most politically charged. It's so bad they had to forbid political threads on AD and I actually can't disagree with it. |
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| Because I don't want politics in entertainment. |
| "Well, she's flatter than a pancake" -Mimi Alpacas "Woof" -Tobiichi Origami "Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?! -Atena Saotome |
| Because on MAL people apply an american view to a japanese philosophy about something, so of course almost everyone gets something wrong. Too lazy to give examples. |
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| Anime is used as a form of escapism, bringing politics into the discussion is not the best idea. |
| What they actually dislike is politics that goes against what they believe in. |
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| What do I hate? That this thread is going to get locked as soon as a mod notices it because we can't talk about something essential to anime in a forum about anime. That aside, it makes absolutely zero sense to "protect" anime from political discourse, even less if what you are doing is trying to erase traces of the political discourse you don't like. |
ReaperCreeper said: What they actually dislike is politics that goes against what they believe in. Nailing it right on the head aren't you? These sorts of ppl complain about it only to go to Shield Hero because of the False accusation thing. But seriously that goes for both sides of the arguments. Keep politics out of ***** is ripe with double standarts and perpetuates the false idea that entertainment is only about escapism. Some series are good because they get real about things at certain times (Bojac Horsemen and Aggretsuko for example). |
Mythologically said: @katsucats It's not that hard to read 39 words. It really isn't. Like it's just very simple. Battle shounens and romance shoujos. Those are, in fact, not 90% of anime. The amount of smart main characters in anime isn't disproportionately low. Going into the top 50 most favorited shows on MAL, I can count at least 10 MCs that are much smarter than most characters in their universe. And it's not like the rest of the MCs are complete idiots who spout your battle shounen idealistic crap. That's literally only Naruto, Fairy Tail, etc. Stop twisting reality to fit your bullshit. https://myanimelist.net/topanime.php?type=favorite&limit=0 Like seriously, if you can give me 20 shows from the top 100 on this list where the main character fits the "stupid but has that mysterious quality that allows them to make a lot of friends" trope, I'll fucking consume a leather shoe. That's not much, is it? 20/100 is only 20%. Since main characters usually fit that trope, 20% should be a breeze. The reason main characters "aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type" is because it doesn't make sense for protagonists in general to fit a single trope. Just like main characters aren't usually stupid idealists. For every Naruto or Midoriya, there's a Light or Sora. almost 50% of the sample size you've offered him in the top 100 is either tagged with or a combination of shounen and romance lol. past that, a lot of the others cater to the shounen demographic anyway. those traits are definitely not even tied to the battle or shoujo variants of shounen or romance. the myanimelist rankings really shouldn't hold you back from gaining perspective |
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Mythologically said: Sad said: almost 50% of the sample size you've offered him in the top 100 is either tagged with or a combination of shounen and romance lol. past that, a lot of the others cater to the shounen demographic anyway. those traits are definitely not even tied to the battle or shoujo variants of shounen or romance. the myanimelist rankings really shouldn't hold you back from gaining perspective i am confused by what your point is here. Did you read his previous messages? He legitimately insinuated that most anime main characters are idealistic idiots and that that has some sort of political motive/significance behind it. I'm just telling him that's literally untrue. 1. if your counter-point to katsucats is to point in the direction of a sample of the rankings that is saturated with the very thing he describes then you are kinda hopeless 2. diverging from his point entirely - i think your perspective is incredibly naive. television/media in general is always selling/drilling something into you, it has to otherwise it cannot be produced, there has to be something to gain. whether that be products, experiences, or ideas. you look at a western history channel covering a period of ww2 and then view a similar show covered by another country involved... the difference in what they are selling/drilling into the viewer is often immensely different to the point where even the significant facts are obscured, or outright wrong to suit a perspective that the country wishes to uphold. outside depicting real life events, this extends to regular shows for enterainment and reality tv (this especially is just a marketing tool for wannabe/existing celebs and you are the buyer whether you opened your wallet or not) do you believe a screenwriter is always aware of the traits they are portraying? most writers a just a by-product of their society and intrinsically display all the traits that already has grip of them and governs the populace. that's what sells, it's what is safe. if you consider japanese working culture in relation to america. you might go up the chain in america based on a combination of who you know and your ability. in japan, you go up in the chain if you can foster consensus and get people on board with your ideas, even if they're fucking terrible. it's all about togetherness, the effort of going out after work with your shitty co-workers to drink yourself into oblivion and maintain loyalty and support each others dumb ideas to strip away discord and take victories and defeats as a group. what do a lot of these anime characters do? they're fucking headless, but they're real big triers and they are loyal to others, get on board with their ideas and foster bonds, friendship and involvement and often oppose the individual with the scary ideals of doing things differently and pressing their own views on others and not seeking harmony... wait... this looks familiar... |
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HopefulNihilist said: Why do politics annoy you? It's not so much that politics annoy me, but more that I have to deal with politics in every other aspect of my life, and use anime to escape it. If only for a few minutes a day. If you don't allow me at least a very brief moment of escapism, I will eventually go insane. Not an hyperbole, either, I will actually become mentally unstable. |
Mythologically said: Sad said: 1. if your counter-point to katsucats is to point in the direction of a sample of the rankings that is saturated with the very thing he describes then you are kinda hopeless 2. diverging from his point entirely - i think your perspective is incredibly naive. television/media in general is always selling/drilling something into you, it has to otherwise it cannot be produced, there has to be something to gain. whether that be products, experiences, or ideas. you look at a western history channel covering a period of ww2 and then view a similar show covered by another country involved... the difference in what they are selling/drilling into the viewer is often immensely different to the point where even the significant facts are obscured, or outright wrong to suit a perspective that the country wishes to uphold. outside depicting real life events, this extends to regular shows for enterainment and reality tv (this especially is just a marketing tool for wannabe/existing celebs and you are the buyer whether you opened your wallet or not) do you believe a screenwriter is always aware of the traits they are portraying? most writers a just a by-product of their society and intrinsically display all the traits that already has grip of them and governs the populace. that's what sells, it's what is safe. if you consider japanese working culture in relation to america. you might go up the chain in america based on a combination of who you know and your ability. in japan, you go up in the chain if you can foster consensus and get people on board with your ideas, even if they're fucking terrible. it's all about togetherness, the effort of going out after work with your shitty co-workers to drink yourself into oblivion and maintain loyalty and support each others dumb ideas to strip away individuality and take victories and defeats as a group. what do a lot of these anime characters do? they're fucking headless, but they're real big triers and they are loyal to others, get on board with their ideas and foster bonds, friendship and involvement and often oppose the individual with the scary ideals of doing things differently and pressing their own views on others and not seeking harmony... wait... this looks familiar... ok listen here you egg my literal only perspective is that "usually anime main characters are stupid" is incorrect. You are currently arguing against something I never said. I didn't say television/anime doesn't have a political agenda. I didn't say entertainment mediums aren't influenced by societal views & politics. All I said was "most anime main characters don't fit the trope of being Naruto". Do me a favor, do the exact same thing I asked him to do. In the top 100 favorited shows, which are apparently saturated with them, give me 20 main characters that portray the "stupid but has that mysterious quality that allows them to make a lot of friends" trope. i'm not really arguing anything, because you don't actually have an substantial argument for me to address. i'm just hoping to provoke some awareness that whether it's intended or not, politics shape and seep into all media irregardless of whether it's anime or not. i haven't seen all of the top 100, and i think your actual method of proving your point is kind of a comical to begin with. what you may consider to be an intelligent scheming character i may consider to be an idealistic airhead, and that's probably the case all things considered. in extension, you believe that it only occurs in two set categories, where the lions share of the top 100 make up these catogories. you have just produced laughable self-defeating task for someone to complete so you can say "see, only battle shounen and shoujo romance are like this hahaha!" |
| the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include |
katsucats said: Anime exists within a political context, not in a vacuum. You can't talk fanservice or anime tropes in a serious manner without the political background, and anime itself wouldn't exist without politics. Mecha genre is heavily political. Even magical girls must have been some political metaphor. It's not a surprise that the mushroom cloud is a common symbolism in anime. There's a reason that anime heavily promotes 'nakama', against individualism. There's a reason anime MC's aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type. There's a reason why the anime industry markets to certain types of fans, using certain price models, etc. This. All art medium exists in a political context and are shaped by that context. Anime is no exception. I think the problem is on how people talk about politics, which is pretty crap everywhere on the internet. Perhaps more so with anime forum because of the amount of teenage fans who learn about politics through memes, not books. |
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| That one's who say that Japan and anime aren't political don't know shit all about the country. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
| Politics is fun Ryuk9428 said: Politics are a part of everything, I don't really like any environment where people feel that certain subjects cannot be discussed. I agree with this Chernobyl is cancer curing |
  『 The truth has power because it’s the truth. And because it is the truth, that makes it just. It’s persuasive, isn’t it? Don’t you want truth like that? 』 |
| I just think that, for people who use anime as a media platform for escapism, politics is one of those topics that just bursts the bubble. Also, I can see why some people would be fed up since the two topics aren't related in a lot of ways. A random political topic would just come off as rude or random. |
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HopefulNihilist said: MAL is one of the more...friendlier social media platforms online, Not really, it has become as cancerous as social media. (which were years ago) that whenever anyone brings up anything remotely political (race, gender) with anime, people really, and I mean, REALLY go crazy; they start calling the person an SJW, even though talking about politics online doesn't make you an SJW (an SJW is someone who fights for rights). You got it all wrong. SJW is peroration word. an SJW is someone who wants to strip someone's right by pretending to care about someone else's rights, they entire existence is a contradiction, anyone with a positive IQ can spot that from miles away. Most of them are hypocrites and political activists. |
| Because when anime fans talk about politics it's usually right-wing conspiracy theories with all the vocabulary of a 12yo reddit user (SJWs, cucks, libtards etc....), completely uninformed garbage, purposefully spreading misinformation to further some agenda, or simply cringeworthy retardation. To be fair, probably not just MAL but humanity in general has this problem. On average the more I know about the political opinions of someone, the less respect I will have for them. So I prefer to avoid talking about politics unless I already know someone really well, or unless I feel I have to because someone is spreading toxic bullshit somewhere and I have to call them out on it. It's just a minefield of stupidity and maliciousness. It sucks to have to deal with it, but I want to at least have the escapist anime part of my life to be free from that burden. So nothing ticks me off more than another retard sheep parroting some bullshit about 'animegate' from some right-wing blogger, forcing their agenda into my face, into my hobby, with the very transparent attempt to recruit followers for their own agenda by agitating them against anything 'SJW' (aka even remotely liberal or leftist). Most actual SJWs at least have the decency to vegetate in obscurity or small, closed circlejerk communities that I would never even realize exist if it wasn't for the anti-SJWs shoving them into my face. So as far as I'm concerned it's clear which side is the bigger threat in terms of trying to politicize anime and its fanbase. Only_Brad said: HopefulNihilist said: MAL is one of the more...friendlier social media platforms online, Not really, it has become as cancerous as social media. (which were years ago) that whenever anyone brings up anything remotely political (race, gender) with anime, people really, and I mean, REALLY go crazy; they start calling the person an SJW, even though talking about politics online doesn't make you an SJW (an SJW is someone who fights for rights). You got it all wrong. SJW is peroration word. an SJW is someone who wants to strip someone's right by pretending to care about someone else's rights, they entire existence is a contradiction, anyone with a positive IQ can spot that from miles away. Most of them are hypocrites and political activists. I'm objectively sure that 80%+ of all people who were ever called SJWs as an insult online, did not fall into any of these categories. What you described is what people intend to say when they insult someone with it, but in reality it is used by the right to insult literally anyone who is less right-wing than them. It has become a placeholder insult for everone even remotely liberal or leftist. Basically the equivalent of calling everyone who isn't leftist a nazi. A completely meaningless insult used by bitter people to discredit everyone who disagrees with them no matter the context. You'd have to be delusional to think the term and how it is used still has any meaning like the one you described. It probably never had, because I've just seen it used as a generic insult the right uses against everyone they dislike since basically its inception. It's not even used to just refer to people anymore, people who hate the left just throw it around at everything they want to shit on. It's rather silly, really. HopefulNihilist said: Luna_Estlin said: Because it typically ends in an argument. fidonia said: Mythologically hit it right on the money. To add though, I think part of the reason people hate it being brought up so much is the fact that talking about politics on the internet almost always turns into an endless circlejerk. Nobody listens to the other side, and no meaningful discussion can be had. Plus, many people find politics outside of the most polarizing issues to be as boring as wheat cereal. But people online argue all the time about much smaller things like anime, and they never come to an agreement. Yes and those are small and generally irrelevant things. We engage in them out of interest or boredom, but with politics it's more out of necessity. And if someone has a retarded opinion about a random anime and all the reason in the world can't make them less toxic about it, you just think what a sad life they have and move on. It isn't really relevant. When it comes to politics, there is always the knowledge that these people are allowed to vote, they will shape the future politics of their countries. So someone being retarded, toxic, malicious when it comes to political opinions feels much more threatening and relevant for my personal life than someone doing the same about irrelevant topics like anime. If Trump was tweeting about waifu wars, I would not be worried no matter how stupid or toxic his tweets are. But he is tweeting about real life political topics with actual consequences to, potentially, everyone on this planet. This is why him being in office unsettles and worries me a lot more. And it's the same with politics in general. It's just a topic where people's opinions might actually influence your personal life if that opinions becomes mainstream enough to make it into office, so obviously there is more passion, more frustration, more hatred involved when talking about it. Something actually is at stake after all, at least in theory. So at least for me, political arguments always leave a bad aftertaste, they make me actively depressed even. Just coming out of it knowing that there are people with these stupid or malicious political opinions and agendas, who might spread those ideas and might make them mainstream or might vote someone like them into a relevant office, it's hard to shake that off. It makes me think everything is meaningless and eventually people will always go back to gravitating towards hateful ideologies. That humanity will never grow out of hating and fearing. Unlike when somebody unfairly shits on some anime I love. It might trigger me at the moment, but I can come out of that argument and immediately forget about it because it really doesn't matter. I know their opinion will not influence anything. After all it's not like if enough people shit on Yuasa the anime industry will fire him or whatever. Their opinions in that regard simply don't matter in any tangible sense, which cannot be said about politics. |
AlcoholicideMay 25, 2019 10:44 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Kuraya said: Yeah, I agree with this.Politics is fun Ryuk9428 said: Politics are a part of everything, I don't really like any environment where people feel that certain subjects cannot be discussed. I agree with this I don't really like the rule against discussing controversial political issues here on AD, though on the other hand I can understand the mods being fed up with it because this forum is big enough that such discussions will get invaded by flamers and trolls who will post their crap and then insist that they're right in the name of "free speech" rather than try to be polite about disagreements and try to come to understandings. Crackersauce said: There's also the fact that a lot of this sort of "political" talk is actually just about norms and ideologies and people end up using them as badges of political identity and using them to bash each other. While actual political issues that matter, like economics, infrastructure, environmental policy, and so on either get ignored because they're not sexy enough or get labeled as "political" issues which causes people to think that they're these stupid wedge-issue arguments over norms.Not a big fan of politics in anime because it usually ends in pointless name calling and buzzwords on both sides. If you lean politically left, you're a white-knight SJW and if you lean politically right, you're a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe who hates the poor. Common ground and proper civil discourse is rare because people care more about trying to belittle their political opponent rather than trying to understand the opposite POV. Of course there are exceptions to this rule and anime can SOMETIMES be a good gateway for discussion, but that's rarely the case. Crackersauce said: That as well as "if you don't join my crusade against [thing] for the sake of anime then you are a [political insult]".In the end, people just wanna enjoy the anime without being bombarded with obnoxious claims about how "X anime is problematic because of (insert political reason here)." |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Zoroft said: If I may let out some steam for a moment...Most people are too stupid to talk about actual politics, they're just pushing tribal agendas instead so it's fucking obnoxious. Yeah, so many times when people talk politics on the internet it's like BLAH BLAH BLAH IDENTITY POLITICS BLAH BLAH BLAH RACISM SEXISM REPRESENTATION BLAH BLAH BLAH TRIGGERED SJW CUCK NORMIES BLAH BLAH BLAH. For someone (such as myself) who's actually interested in public policy, these sorts of arguments are the stupid and "oh gosh why the fuck are people arguing over this bullshit again" end of the scale of political importance. But for some reason people seem to enjoy blowing these crazy out of proportion. Oh I forgot the second version of this. That one is BLAH BLAH BLAH IDEOLOGIES BLAH BLAH BLAH LIBERALS CONSERVATIVES FAR-LEFT ALT-RIGHT BLAH BLAH BLAH COMMUNISM BAD BLAH BLAH BLAH CAPITALISM BAD BLAH BLAH BLAH. Different flavor, same stupid. Oh by the way, "centrism" is just another flavor of stupid. They're all just labels. All that actually matters is the actual policies that end up being implemented. The axis of political ideas is just a convenient thing by which people get to argue. I think since that is what usually most political arguments turn into today. It's not shocking most people don't want those discussions in their entertainment media. It's the nature of political discussion not politics itself that drives people away. |
| because SJWs are ruining the gaming and anime industry /s |
| *I used to be cringe, nowadays I’m even cringier* 😎 |
| It's not because of the subject matter itself, but the fact that it sparks such toxic arguments is what people are very annoyed with, and people attempting to bring that to this platform can aggravate some people. A lot of these people mad about those bringing politics here are overreacting at times, but at the same time I can understand it, because there's almost no healthy conversations about politics. The conversations about politics that actually end up insightful and civil are outliers. It would be acceptable if the actual politics are relevant to the anime being talked about, or just anime in general, but it rarely ever is, so bringing that toxicity in doesn't even amount to a decent conversation, just people pissing all over each other. Politics are a shitshow right now, we don't need that here. When a political argument is creating a mess it's usually being made by multiple people that literally know nothing about politics and just learned it from a bunch of Twitter articles, Youtube videos, and word of mouth from others that already shared their point of view, so there's no civil discourse. Here in the anime community we might also argue, but it's at least about things that are subjective, and actually don't have a real answer. We ain't great, but we're at least above the political bandwagoners. Politics are alright, those that talk argue it rarely are though |
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| I don't unless it's politics brought into something that clearly doesn't have that messagr in it and not even be a good representation of what someone is talking about because it is unrealistic portrayal. Politics is pretty omni present really because it has an effect on every aspect of one's life whether you're into politics or not. |
| I don't hate to talk politics with anime. In fact, I love it! This anime season is the most political I've seen in a while. Ikuhara is pretty much the most political director I know and even Watanabe seems to be heading that way with Carole and Tuesday. An example of anime I watched but of which political message I disagreed with is Young Black Jack. I would've dropped it but they just had to make the MC so hot lol |
| Despite all the general sentiment of "I don't want politics in my escapist anime" around here, the long-time most popular title is one that asks the question, "Shall we live in a world where justice and punishments are delivered under a system of laws, courts, and due process, or one where everything is decided by the will of one all-powerful individual?" It's hard to get much more political than Democracy vs. Autocracy, or alternatively "Modern/Postfeudal State vs. Divine Right of Kings." |
on 
HopefulNihilist said: As I read this whole thread, I felt like I could taste a rich sense of irony, but I couldn't put my finger on it, so I went back to the OP and came across this quote. I knew things were going to turn out the way they did, and they did just that. OP, I think you got your answer.I understand that many people don't like talking about politics, but there's always an overreaction. Am I just overthinking this? |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| Vast majority of people who like to bloviate about politics on internet actually know jack shit about politics, so once politics brought forth, any thread becomes a gaping abyss of idiocy. |
| While I agree with @katsucats that politics is intrinsic of art and human expression I disagree with the "There's a reason anime MC's aren't usually the intelligent, scheming type." I think this is more trope related beyond anime because the intelligent scheming type character is not as likable and you want your MC to be likable. Just look up the trope 5 men band where the MC is usually the leader with the moral highground, generally very idealistic and naive at the beginning of the stories. I also disagree with @Mythologically 's counter argument, using the top 100 as sample size is incredibly biased. The top 100 won't give you a proportional ratio of intelligent and stupid MC in all anime, it will give you the most liked ones and the intelligent cunning ones are most likely overrepresented because of the few shows that make it work. The "stupid" idealistic MC is just generally much more likable because it's easily relatable and young audience demographic. |
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Ryuk9428 said: Politics are a part of everything, I don't really like any environment where people feel that certain subjects cannot be discussed. Yep, that's always a protection for corruption. |
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