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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Whoa I wasn't expecting a magical girl battle to just break out like that. I think Papika and Yayaka may have developed some sort of rivalry this episode. We also got to see Iro's past which is something I thought was kinda neat. Such a cute child and it seems like her personality back then is generally the same as the present. I think she had a nice relationship with her aunt and just like most kids, likes to paint art of family. Pure Illusion really brings the most bizarre fantasy into this show which is what Papika and Cocona experienced again until they realized it. The action was okay, fluid enough to keep the show colorful and appealing even though it was pretty short. |
Stark700Nov 10, 2016 5:40 AM
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| I'm not sure if they mentioned it in a previous episode or not since my memory is garbage but I'm going to suggest a probably stupid theory and that Pure Illusion could be the subconscious of a particular person, in this case Iro-senpai. By going through that gateway they were reliving her memories as a child and at the end when they got Auntie to remember her, her current self remembered that it wasn't Auntie's fault and came to terms with whatever it was that happened in the past and by accepting that she painted her nails The more I think about the more this theory seems a little stupid but fuck it, its what I'm going with right now Also holy shit am I here early, thats a first |
| Get your shit straight Brenda |
| I wonder what will be the role of Iro-senpai in the series, because aside from Cocona's Grandma, she's one of the mysterious and interesting character to me. I wouldn't be surprise if she's a magical girl too. |
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| Was so excited to watch this I accidentally downloaded Spanish subs. |
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Walowizard said: I'm not sure if they mentioned it in a previous episode or not since my memory is garbage but I'm going to suggest a probably stupid theory and that Pure Illusion could be the subconscious of a particular person, in this case Iro-senpai. By going through that gateway they were reliving her memories as a child and at the end when they got Auntie to remember her, her current self remembered that it wasn't Auntie's fault and came to terms with whatever it was that happened in the past and by accepting that she painted her nails The more I think about the more this theory seems a little stupid but fuck it, its what I'm going with right now Also holy shit am I here early, thats a first That's an interesting theory, I'll have to keep that in mind as well as time goes on. Assuming that's true, I wonder what the other worlds are? Episode 2 would probably be Uexkull's world, because they had bunny ears and tails. Episode 1 was an icy, lonely wasteland - Cocona's? Episode 3 was a harsh and unforgiving desert, episode 5 was a creepy version of their school, and now this. I don't think it's necessarily a stupid theory, there isn't really anything that disproves it and it doesn't seem to clash with other theories that I've heard/thought. If this is the case, I think they'll probably spell it out more clearly for us later on. Cocona is asking so many questions and the show is otherwise teasing us with little bits of information, I feel like there will definitely be a more concrete reveal about the nature of Pure Illusion by the final episode. If Pure Illusion is indeed the subconscious of a single person, it could be good to start thinking about that now, to catch more details before they actually explain it. Or not! Either way, it's fun to think about, right? |
| Don't like the way the episode ended. Even though they probably helped Iroha, all signs say that door is pretty ominous and dangerous. Wonder if entering Pure Illusion or those doors will have any negative side effects on the girls in the future Overall, a pretty creepy but nice episode. Don't really like the boss of FlipFlap |
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| I'm very confused but I think I got what was the whole episode about: Iroha's past right? |
Walowizard said: I'm not sure if they mentioned it in a previous episode or not since my memory is garbage but I'm going to suggest a probably stupid theory and that Pure Illusion could be the subconscious of a particular person, in this case Iro-senpai. From what I've read Uexkull's name probably was based on the German biologist Jakob von Uexkull, and after I've read Uexkull's "Umwelt" theory (though I don't really get that much) I think the magical girl's shared consciousness that triggers Pure Illusion and Umwelt has something in common or they really based on that. |
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| That was brilliant and beautiful. The sudden magic girl transformation threw me off for a moment, but it didn't take long to get reoriented. 5/5 Xenocrisi said: I'm very confused but I think I got what was the whole episode about: Iroha's past right? Yes, which Papika and Cocona experienced different sides of. |
| huuuuuuuum I find strange that Iro's past is recreated by two people, I feel that she have two personalities or hidden twins (specially when one says Irodori Iroha-senpai and the other one Iroha Irodori-senpai). I know that maybe is because we have Papika and Cocona inside the dream but both are living different situations at the same time, on staying in her house and the other staying with her aunt. Anyway it's a nice episode. |
| I thought there was a number of cases of bad writing like a supposed betrayal of a promise being shown after the fact to awkwardly enhance the poignancy (feels like the opposite would be a much better decision - this show does this a lot, going dully over flashbacks to punctuate a moment), stressing nail polish so much, no believable motive to reenter or pressure to make that decision so the choice itself doesn't have much impact despite the possible consequence of death or something terrible (they just do it, Cocona got a "feeling" - I mean, I guess you can parallel the goal of finding out Iro's identity, pressure of societal expectations, reasserting herself, the recurrent "Who are you?", showing the Cocona's dream again with Cocona's arc in general, but it ain't the same) and just dullness in the narrative without a lot of charm and depth. What Flip Flappers is suggestive of is always far more interesting than how the story is explicitly told, which is eager to indulge in cliches, and it's not saying a lot. While Cocona and Papika experiencing two different sides of Iro's past, it doesn't have much meat to it. I liked the distorting of the parents and the house from Cocona's perspective and the creepy opening of the door as her aunt just leaves without a word and she enters the house. An example of something I didn't think worked was the rotating screen effect as it went into subjective POV and Cocona ran of out the room. It didn't flow well at all into the next cut and kinda accomplishes nothing for a dramatic moment. The deeper underpinnings don't help since it just stresses shock and sadness, which the color blue does throughout as it contrasts against, you guess it, orange. To counter that and move away from negatives, though, the disorienting effect of that sudden transformation sequence was purposely jarring and highlighted the sudden emergence of action that doesn't allow you think before displacing you to some fantastical world with a gigantic spherical creature with multiple eyes and spider like limbs. The viewer doesn't need to know the rest. The show's best moments are high octane moments and sudden spontaneity like that. What was also dope was the fade to Auntie's house after she stopped living there that paints over the previous shot (I forget what these are exactly, they shifted color from red to white) with blue and the previous one when Papika fades away to lead to Cocona's conversation with her across the dividing lines. The little action was good, even the animation outside the fights was a notch better than at least eps 1 and 2 (rewatched those recently). This was an all right episode and one of the better ones. |
TonyTheme said: I thought there was a number of cases of bad writing like a supposed betrayal of a promise being shown after the fact to awkwardly enhance the poignancy (feels like the opposite would be a much better decision - this show does this a lot, going dully over flashbacks to punctuate a moment).... I think it works in this order, because like Memento, it keeps the viewer in sync with the protagonist's failure of memory at that moment. Iro is shocked and confused, and forgets her promise until the later moment of dreadful realization. She's like the apostle Peter, who forgot Christ's prediction of his three denials until the rooster (Papika-Iro) reminded him. The audience gets to share her experience, rather than judging her from the outside all along. |
| The episode was enterteining but why do they dropped the gem? I kind of agree with the guy that thinks that Pure Illusion is the conscious of someone, we'll need to check the details to confirm that. I always thought that the painter girl would have a role in the plot but not in this way, I mean more deep. Also, why is Cocone helping them to find the gems, that glasses guy doesn't explain anything, he seems very unfriendly, I wouldn't help someone like him. |
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| Another great episode and the next seems nice too. |
nDroae said: Memento is edited and structured (repetition is a big thing as you know) to resemble the fragmented memories of its protagonist. While they are shifting through a period of Iro's life, it isn't much in that regard and she is reminded of the promise through a series of her own flashbacks like it's always depicted. What you said isn't predicated on not introducing it into the story beforehand, so your points don't connect with it. Jesus's prediction wasn't omitted before it happened, was it? The overall scenario is a shared experience and the scene is already an obvious emotional overwhelming experience for Cocona-Iro. The weight of that choice to run just feels cheaply added retroactively in a easily seen way that takes me further out of the story. I didn't like the story overall.I think it works in this order, because like Memento, it keeps the viewer in sync with the protagonist's failure of memory at that moment. Iro is shocked and confused, and forgets her promise until the later moment of dreadful realization. She's like the apostle Peter, who forgot Christ's prediction of his three denials until the rooster (Papika-Iro) reminded him. The audience gets to share her experience, rather than judging her from the outside all along. |
TonyThemeNov 10, 2016 9:47 AM
| So this seems to confirm that Pure Illusion can affect "real world"(I still believe that Cocona's world is just another layer). And it also seems to be correct that Pure Illusion represents inner psyche of human beings too. So far we explored Cocona's and now it seems it is possible to cross over into other people and affect them. I don't think every "layer" is different person. More like every layer , including Cocona's is a different perception of reality. It is also interesting that this episode yet again explores idea of identity and Cocona and Papika being two polar opposites. In this episode we actually see them take on two separate aspects of a single person, in this case the encounters with grandma seem to be have an escapist quality, while the blue tinted life seems to be reflection of cold and cruel reality of Iro's home life, essentially exploring two aspects of Iro's identity. Cocona and Papika essentially serve as Iro's Id and Ego. Actually I just realized that Cocona, Papika and Yayaka fit perfectly into definition idea of Id, Ego and Super Ego. Papika is Id. Instinctual on every level, driven more by desires and whims than logic or sensibility. She seems to be unaware of concepts such as consequences and is incapable of long term planning, acting on a whim instead. Cocona is Ego - she tries to reason with with cocona in the same way that Ego is said to balance out Id. She With every whim Cocona is there to question it and to try to apply realistic view to it. Yayaka is Super Ego. She is apart of a bigger force(just like super ego is embodiment of cultural and social norms). She is there to punish and restrict Ego and has acted so far to basically call out Cocona(Ego) on her actions and choices. Super Ego is also the ultimate opposite of Id, with Ego being torn in between. It also explains why Cocona and Papika switch hair colors when transforming, as essentially their effect on each other can invert them still leaving them opposites. And why Yayaka says she can't transform. Because reality and society would define it is impossible. What does this mean? I am not sure yet. But the picture is slowly coming together. I am beginning to strongly think that Cocona and Papika(and maybe Yayaka? Depending on how Super Ego is viewed) are basically pieces of a single identity in the actual real world(The Reality which we have yet to see basically). Let's call that person The Composite for now. Papika embodies the sexual impulses and temptations The Composite feels and most likely is designed to resemble somebody in The Reality that The Composite most likely has feelings towards but is conflicted in expressing them. |
AhenshihaelNov 10, 2016 10:42 AM
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| Wow that was a very very very emotional episode I almost cried. I've been catching myself signing the ending song all week. I need help. xD |
 "There are three things you can never get back: The word after it's said, the moment after it's missed, and the time after it's gone." -Koe no Katachi  |
| In the beginning I was incredibly confused by the abrupt magical transformation. I really enjoyed how this episode really centered around understanding Iroha, a quite minor character. However, it confuses me to why there hasn't been any development to our understanding of Papika and Cocona's background (unless I missed this completely, please inform me if I did). Also, this episode needs to be given a lot of credit especially in how the girls understand Iroha's past. They stumbled upon the opportunity (well, technically they were sucked in at first but they still decided to go back) to understand the eyes of Iro firsthand. Otherwise, I really loved how personable the setting of the background was too. Everything was incredibly artistic from Pure Illusion's backgrounds which look very similar in style to Iroha's painting in the beginning as well also, iroha is a talented artist. they keep reinforcing this even in iroha's childhood. what i found interesting is that she draws a lot and when she's at home, the home is distorted into something that looks like it's been drawn by a child. the thing is, this was iro's world sadly. even the part where she puts her hand on the door knob when her family is fighting,i felt this to be very meaningful because the pain and divide between her parents is something very very real to her. Like it seems all illusory to her but the pain and loneliness is still there. Ofc, I can be totally off on this and it may actually just be aesthetics but at the same time I still feel strongly since the whole episode was interpreted incredibly artistically for an incredibly artistic Iroha. Uuuuggghhh I loved everything about this episode. Though, Iro's story really hit me where it hurts. I'm a mess. T^T |
cottonpieNov 10, 2016 10:57 AM
cottonpie said: also, iroha is a talented artist. they keep reinforcing this even in iroha's childhood. what i found interesting is that she draws a lot and when she's at home, the home is distorted into something that looks like it's been drawn by a child. the thing is, this was iro's world sadly. even the part where she puts her hand on the door knob when her family is fighting,i felt this to be very meaningful because the pain and divide between her parents is something very very real to her. Ofc, I can be totally off on this and it may actually just be aesthetics but at the same time I still feel strongly since the whole episode was interpreted incredibly artistically for an incredibly artistic Iroha. Hmmm... it's not off at all. Though instead of something drawn by a child it's a very good exposition of expressionism. The distortions have all the intention of showing the distress Iroha felt at that home. |
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" Friedrich Schiller |
Ajunky said: Though instead of something drawn by a child it's a very good exposition of expressionism. The distortions have all the intention of showing the distress Iroha felt at that home. Thank you for your input. I didn't think of that at all! |
TonyTheme said: nDroae said: Memento is edited and structured (repetition is a big thing as you know) to resemble the fragmented memories of its protagonist. While they are shifting through a period of Iro's life, it isn't much in that regard and she is reminded of the promise through a series of her own flashbacks like it's always depicted. What you said isn't predicated on not introducing it into the story beforehand, so your points don't connect with it. Jesus's prediction wasn't omitted before it happened, was it? The overall scenario is a shared experience and the scene is already an obvious emotional overwhelming experience for Cocona-Iro. The weight of that choice to run just feels cheaply added retroactively in a easily seen way that takes me further out of the story. I didn't like the story overall.I think it works in this order, because like Memento, it keeps the viewer in sync with the protagonist's failure of memory at that moment. Iro is shocked and confused, and forgets her promise until the later moment of dreadful realization. She's like the apostle Peter, who forgot Christ's prediction of his three denials until the rooster (Papika-Iro) reminded him. The audience gets to share her experience, rather than judging her from the outside all along. It is absolutely possible that the reason why I cried at the end was due not to any quality of writing, but to my own work experiences involving people with Alzheimer's and their families. I've never seen anything of which I would say to anyone, "You are at fault if you did not enjoy this." At the same time, I am absolutely certain that the episode would have been less enjoyable to me if the aunt's request of Iro had been shown first. I'd be interested to read others' thoughts on that. |
| It's the past of Iro, definitely. Nail polish, her name on one of the works at the end. That is interesting as shit, i don't wanna call where this is going. |
15poundfish said: pure illusion worlds seem to be the state of mind of cocona, papika or other characters they interact in the show. Its not really explained if collecting the fragments actually influences the host, but it seems their portal jumping in this episode changed Iroha's past or memories. Not memories or past. The way to view them. Iro's past is the same and what happened is the same. However by "progressing" within the gate essentially Cocona and Papika changed Iroha's perception of those past experiences, allowing her to move past that. |
AhenshihaelNov 10, 2016 11:51 AM
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| Damn, that was a really good episode. The use of the colors orange and blue was very strong: Iro's normal life is cold and harsch, while the time warm and welcoming. This is the part of her mind where she seeks refuge from her otherwise depressing life. As the illness of her aunt progress even that part of her life turns blue. However, cocona and papika mange to save that part of her mind by fulling Iro's promisse. |
| An episode tackling Alzheimer's Disease by looking back at Iroha's childhood? Wasn't expecting that. Well it was very touching anyway, happy and sad. |
| This was probably my favorite episode so far honestly! I can't wait until we get to the main conflict soon! |
| Simply beautiful. I like where this is going. |
| It's getting better each episode... I'm in love with this. My head is filled with stupid theories that I can't put easily in words. Looks like ages since I felt this because of an anime. |
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| 'Who are you again?' :--: |
Nanika ga Okashii |
| Well Flip Flappers is continuing to amaze me. These last two episodes have shown that not only does it do over the top action and yuri magical girl antics well, but it is also capable of delivering a horror atmosphere with episode 5 and even sentimental emotional stuff, whilst maintaining an overall tone of curiosity and adventure. I love it. One of the best anime to come along in some time, shame most people won't give it a chance because they're so scared of the idea of watching "moeshit" because of dumb /a/ memes and insecurity. |
LobindeNov 10, 2016 3:13 PM
| Wow. That was incredibly artistic. I am starting to believe that Cocona and Papik are part of one identity. Or maybe there are soulmates who were destined to become one. However you describe it, I love their bond. I am glad they were able to help Iroha move on. At first I thought Iroha's aunt was Cocona's grandma. What is Cocona's role even, I can't wait to find out. |
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| So that senpai is actually relevant? This show keeps messing with my head, I love it! |
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| holy shit that episode is mind fuck and emotional, so that Senpai can make her drawings influence pure illusion? |
| I wouldn't expect myself to cry. It was very well done. The main problem with the episode or at least in general is the transition, pacing and directing. I thought it was the past of Cocona. I thought it was focusing on her relationship with her aunt and her parents. During the scene when Cocona was going to Iro's house, I thought Cocona's parents died. It didn't helped that her aunt sounded like Cocona's grandma. Despite that it was good and I figured everything out by the end of memory. |
Nothing129 said: The girl with the green hair. She was the one that likes painting.Who is Iro lol im confused |
nDroae said: My father pretty much 'disappeared' about three years ago (though the path there was far less pleasant than Iro's 'aunt' was traveling). So, yes, my attention on the episode shifted immediately when Cocona found the makeup kit on the table for her. I wouldn't say the sequence of the scenes being different might have changed my enjoyment of the episode, so much as it just added an unexpected dimension to my thinking of the story as a whole.At the same time, I am absolutely certain that the episode would have been less enjoyable to me if the aunt's request of Iro had been shown first. I'd be interested to read others' thoughts on that. Actually, good discussion and observations by many people here. I was going to say a few things, but the ground has already been covered and more :) Fai said: Rin: Wait! How can you all of a sudden just fly?It also explains why Cocona and Papika switch hair colors when transforming, as essentially their effect on each other can invert them still leaving them opposites. And why Yayaka says she can't transform. Because reality and society would define it is impossible. Magical Ruby: You're amazing, Miss Illya! Flying is so advanced, yet you're doing it easily! Illya: It's not really that amazing, is it? Magical Sapphire: Simply elevating requires very strong visualization. How are you...? Illya: Um, are you really asking me? Magical Girls are supposed to fly, right? --Fate/kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya, episode 4 |
CratexNov 10, 2016 5:30 PM
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| WOW This is show is getting better and better each episode ! |
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| - S U B E T E D A -They finally show art club's painting after hiding it for some reason back in like episode 2 or something -Seems like they decided to jump continuity in the beginning of the episode rather than at the beginning of the episode -The fight scenes are all pretty amazing -Sweet little 392, jumping in after them -Seems like things are going to go off the deep end from here on out, with Cocona swapping places into art club's early life -It also seems like art club's grandma has the same voice actor as Cocona's grandma -This got trippy real fast with the whole life swap thing -Seems like no time in the Pure Illusion passed when they were inside the red gate -Does that gate not have a super sinister aura to it for Papika and Cocona? -So apparently art club's grandma wasn't actually her grandma and shows signs of memory loss or even Alzheimers -Some pretty interesting use of colors during that mirror world sequence -It was actually really weird that they didn't put the promise back when art club Cocona actually got the nail polish. It was also really weird how her grandma instantly recognized Iro after being told her name. I didn't really like that part of the episode. -That pan to Salt while Cocona and Papika returned from the mirror world couldn't be anything other than sinister So after skimming through the episode again I saw that they didn't actually show the scene where art club Cocona got the nail polish. They just cut straight from her grandma's intent of giving a present to her to the scene where she's not home. I still think the way they told this thing out of order was still really weird, though. Also, after reading through the thread, I will say that I disagree with the hypothesis that all of the Pure Illusions are the consciousnesses of others. The reaction to the red portal of everyone in Yayaka's group seems to suggest that the red portal is different from the normal Pure Illusions. Maybe the reason it was red was because it was someone Cocona and Papika personally knew, but I think it was more of an exception than the rule. It's also something to note how the red gate was stationed inside a Pure Illusion and not in the real world, and I'm not sure I'm entirely buying the concept of nested Illusions. Maybe the red gates put the people that travel through it in an isolated region of the real world, just like how portals in the real world place the travelers in an isolated region of the Pure Illusion. The episode felt more like setup for something further on in the show, and I didn't like it as much as I liked some of the previous episodes. Next episode doesn't look too interesting, either, but there were a few new characters in the preview. |
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| Took a while to figure out what this week's world was, but that's what I like about this show. Its really unpredictable. And another feelsy episode this week. Damn, why do they keep coming? |
| This episode was full of feels for me. My father passed away two years ago, suffering from dementia at the end. |
| So we're getting some answers here. Cocona and Papika are related. I'm not entirely sure how much of that story in Pure Illusion is real because everyone was telling them that going into that flashback land is dangerous. Could be that part of what they saw was Pure Illusion messing with them. Cocona and Papika switching hair colors in magical girl form now makes sense. I didn't get the old lady part. Is she that senpai? Or is she the granny who is with Cocona? I also didn't get the "Iro" part. Cocona and Papika are the same person's two different personalities or something along those lines? The big question is who is Irodori Iroha-senpai? Is she the the person Papika and Cocona are? Or is she that woman? And what was dangerous about that place? Why was Salt smiling when the two girls came back? That guy said they have to collect all the fragments in Pure Illusion which is impossible because Yayaka is stealing their earned fragments. They've yet to explain the fragments and what exactly are they. These fragments come out when the problem or whatever in Pure Illusion is resolved. And what was that about them having wish granting powers as said in episode 1 (I think)? Is becoming a mahou shoujo that wish granting power? And why don't Yayaka and the twins transform? Are they being cautious of something? This episode answered some stuff while raising even more questions lol. But it was a good episode overall. The fight was good as expected of this show and I liked the colors during that flashback or whatever part. The house and everyone in had cold colors while the outside world had warm colors. That looked nice. |
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