Vinland Saga
| Askeladd as you know, is a very different character. He has a set of different sides of him, different goals, different moralities, and different views on the world. He admires people and despises others. We've definitely not finished Askeladd's development yet, but it's been amazing so far. Here's some aspects of Askeladd's character: - He despises the Danes, Vikings as well for what they did to their mother. - He is the descendant of Lucius Artorius Castus (also know as King Arthur in legend) and awaits for his return. - Using and changing Canute is his main mission, whatever immoral cost it takes. - He has an admiration for Thors - His relationship with Thorfinn Regardless of his hatred for the Vikings though, he seems to acts like one anyways, he's unpredictable because of his convoluted sides. He'll come off as charming and ambitious from his Roman side, yet decide to kill many for his own goal like a Viking. He still comes off as a believable character nevertheless, that's why I think he's amazing He really has barely any heroic traits. You could say that he's a double agent in a way. So that comes into question, do you think Askeladd is a anti-hero, antagonist, or something else? Discuss |
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draco11 said: Askeladd is a complex character. You cannot define him as an antagonist or anti-hero and address him as such. He is not like your typical one dimensional anime "villain" who is being villain just for the sake of being one. Which is why he is one of the best characters. Oh no doubt he is complex, he's definitely not one dimensional. I'm just trying to look at him in an abstract way, like a categorisation. Antagonists or anti-heroes don't always have to be one dimensional of course. I personally would define him as an anti-hero. |
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| I think of him as a protagonist because the only reason he would qualify as an antagonist is Thorfinn wanting to duel and kill him. But they're still on the same team, Thorfinn is basically just his dog. I don't know about anti-hero because I don't know what he wants, we'll see in the end lol. Dude has been pillaging for decades so actually no matter what his goal is it's not what would qualify as heroic to me, just another man fighting for his own dreams that aren't 'for the greater good' but his own satisfaction. Only reason he seems anti-hero is because he wants to protect Wales right? I don't know how true that is yet, I think when Canute came in the picture he immediately took the opportunity because he's a madladd who wants to do something crazy like his ancestor Artorius. But he's not dumb and knows that they'll eventually lose power so he just doesn't do it to protect but to do something epic. Idk man Only Thors was a heroic, he just fucked off and wanted to be left alone living a humble life with his family, didn't use his charm to lead an army to gain his own territory through violence |
EsquirtitOct 21, 2019 6:44 AM
| poop |
| Chaotic Evil protagonist |
| Well If you've read the manga then you the answer already. I honestly don't get the point of this thread. Is this anime onlies? |
| he is an objectively evil person. |
| >I had no brain when I was 12 >Then everyone must had no brain when they were 12 >I experimented 100 samples and proved that they had no brain when they were 12 >Therefore children cannot consent This is what science has done to humanity. |
mohrip said: Medtron said: For me, he is like a realistic version of Hisoka :D And done god damn right! I love his character the best so far and one of the main reasons I love this show! Hisoka is a madlad who will fight because he's just feel good (in other words, he's horny when he fights). On the other hands, Askeladd is more of a manipulative asshole than someone who wants to always fights. He just doesn't care about anything but his dreams and will do anything to achieve it. Thorkell seems more fit into Hisoka. He's a fanatic religious who always wants a war and become a hero in valhala. Him and Hisoka is just want to fight for their own reason instead of achieve their goal. Now that you mention it, Thorkell and Hisoka are uncannily similar. Askeladd seems more of a mixture of the troll side of Netero and an opportunist like Pariston. |
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| Hmm, that’s a fascinating question just because his decisions are so multi-layered. It really depends on perspective. From his men’s perspective, you could say he’s a hero. Even by making a decision to wipe out a village, he’s doing so because if he doesn’t, he’d be putting his men in-danger (which ultimately doesn’t matter since that girl was able to escape regardless). When he kills someone like Ragnar, he’s doing it because he knows Canute will not become the strong leader that Denmark needs if he keeps him alive. Although, that plan might have changed if he knew King Sewyn’s plot first. That’s thing with the politics of war. A person can appear as a hero or a villain just based off of perspective. |
phantom346 said: Well If you've read the manga then you the answer already. I honestly don't get the point of this thread. Is this anime onlies? I'm blending in, shhhh. And yes, this is an anime only thread. |
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| Askladd to me, reminds me strongly of blackbeard antics. |
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RealTheAbsurdist said: deg said: i see him as a psychopath a functional psychopath that exploits others just to reach his goals I disagree. A psychopath is literally incapable of empathy. It's a little subtle, but Askeladd has been shown to have remorse for others. true but not all psychopaths have zero empathy though and you got this recent research  |
deg said: RealTheAbsurdist said: I disagree. A psychopath is literally incapable of empathy. It's a little subtle, but Askeladd has been shown to have remorse for others. true but not all psychopaths have zero empathy though and you got this recent research Ah, I remember reading that. I should've addressed that. Yes, psychopaths are capable of empathy, but only when they try to like, turn it on. This wasn't discovered until the modern era. So before the modern era, psychopaths weren't capable of empathy, because nobody knew they could "turn on" their empathy. |
draco11 said: And people who voted for either "anti hero"/"antagonist" simply forgot what these terms indicate. Wikipedia: "An antihero or antiheroine is a main character in a story who lacks conventional heroic qualities and attributes such as idealism, courage and morality. Although antiheroes may sometimes perform actions that are morally correct, it is not always for the right reasons, often acting primarily out of self-interest or in ways that defy conventional ethical codes" I actually think this definition fits quite well with Askeladd, so, yes, I believe I know what these terms indicate... |
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| Askeladd's character is lot complex than these simple terms. |
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| Within the context of this "prologue" portion of the story, he's a protagonist(not a clear cut antihero though). If I had to give him an alignment, he'd be Lawful Evil. He has clear allegiances and some personal values, but he's also fairly apathetic towards human life and does scummy stuff. He's the guy with a "plan" who does evil shit but isn't eccentric or a truly depraved individual... |
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| What ? He is neither, he is a villain, or precisely an anti-villain. He is not an antagonist, he is clearly a deuteragonist in this series. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
| He's an antagonist to me. A very complicated one with a goal to protect "his" people even if it damned everyone else. I don't see him as an anti-hero because his sins are just too grave but he is no ordinary "villain" in the sense he's painted as just "bad". I'm glad this was't asked of Canute because I still don't know how I wan to classify that gray character. |
| that's the problem. Why do that? he's a character in himself, you don't have to categorise him. well, you can do that but I think its a little reducing imo. I think he's closer to an antagonist, why do you consider him an anti-hero? (considering what happpened after) I definitely consider him more of an antagonist. |
| At this year, many people still don't understand what word antagonist mean. Antagonist mean someone who oppose the protagonist, it has nothing to do with evil or hero. If protagonist is a villain then antagonist could be a hero, Death Note is a famous example of this case. Protagonist is the center of the story. Vinland Saga real protagonist is Thorfinn sure, but at this point of the story, Askeladd is the protagonist, Thorkell is antagonist. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
Gagui79 said: I think he was talking about the options list. You can't really choose as both options can be true. An antihero would be an antagonist if he opposes the protagonist (be it a hero or villain protagonist). In the same way, a hero would count as an antagonist in a story with a villain MC. It depends on perspective.draco11 said: And people who voted for either "anti hero"/"antagonist" simply forgot what these terms indicate. Wikipedia: "An antihero or antiheroine is a main character in a story who lacks conventional heroic qualities and attributes such as idealism, courage and morality. Although antiheroes may sometimes perform actions that are morally correct, it is not always for the right reasons, often acting primarily out of self-interest or in ways that defy conventional ethical codes" I actually think this definition fits quite well with Askeladd, so, yes, I believe I know what these terms indicate... For example: Frank Castle (The Punisher) is an antihero protagonist in The Punisher series, but in the same universe sometimes he also acts as an antagonist to Matt Murdock in Daredevil series. |
I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/ I'm level  on mal-badges. View my badges. |
Only_Brad said: Chaotic Evil protagonist Strongly agree, mostly due to his intelligence, leadership skills, and the fact that he is guiding and leading Thorfinn (our tru protagonist and MC). |
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| He's not an Anti-Hero because there is no Hero. Thorfinn is not a Hero. He's murdered innocent people and caused lots of other innocent people to die. He's not an Antagonist either because, he's not trying to stop the Protagonist from doing anything other than getting revenge for a problem he caused in the first place. |
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| I've look at people's replies regarding Askeladd not fitting any of the 2 categories. Yeah, I agree with all of it. I've realized that it is impossible to categorize Askeladd, as his behavior + historical implications obscure the ability to deduce and summarize his character. There are no good people or bad people in history, Askeladd follows what it means to live in that time while having his own personal ambitions. Hence, he does not follow normal categories. |
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Elucid said: I've look at people's replies regarding Askeladd not fitting any of the 2 categories. Yeah, I agree with all of it. I've realized that it is impossible to categorize Askeladd, as his behavior + historical implications obscure the ability to deduce and summarize his character. There are no good people or bad people in history, Askeladd follows what it means to live in that time while having his own personal ambitions. Hence, he does not follow normal categories. No, Askeladd and his bands are obviously bad people or villains, good people are people like Thors, Leif and all people who live honestly live in a village. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
mohrip said: Jim_Heart said: No, Askeladd and his bands are obviously bad people or villains, good people are people like Thors, Leif and all people who live honestly live in a village. I'm really sure the point is that in the history, you will praise the soldier on your country but you will say that the other countries are evil. Even if your hero is someone who saved your country, they might be doing that by colonize the other countries. Same as here, Askeladd is a hero for Wales, but he's an evil for England. Oh, I understand then. Like someone said that all war heroes are mass murderer in disguise. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
| We're having too many threads about these damn awards. I guess they really were controversial. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| We all know that Askeladd was an anti-hero.But he only git representation in Antagonist and he should have won that. And also Kaguya and Shirogane aren't a couple but they won it.They have neither confessed to one another nor have a romantic relationship.Them being a couple defys the point of the entire show. |
| Kills the father of mc, enslaves and manipulates mc. Mc makes his vow to kill him to avenge his father. Yeah, deffinetely not an antagonist. |
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| An antagonist is not necessarily a villain, just someone that opposes the protagonist, be them good or evil. Even if Askeladd felt like the protagonist, that role is still Thorfinn's so the nomination was accurate. |
| Askeladd is an anti-villain protagonist. Protagonist is which point of view you see the story (most of the times) from, antagonist side againts that side. Hero is actually which side you should actually cheering to, and villain is the side you should hate or want to stop. Light Yagami is a villain protagonist, and L is a hero antagonist for example. Anti-hero is a darker hero and anti-villain is a lighter villain. |
Jim_HeartFeb 17, 2020 12:32 AM
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
| you're all playing into crunchy's hands with these threads. they think they're relevant, and you're giving them the attention instead of outright ignoring the whole thing. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| It's really hard to call him a villain, while almost everyone in Vinland Saga world is evil to some extent. He is just ahead of the curve. |
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| Posts #37 to #46 merged from a dupe thread. |
 challenges 🕺 forum sets 🪩 it's friday night 🕺 shrine 🪩 source 🕺 |
| I don't see him as Protagonist, an Antagonist nor even an Anti-Hero. I think of him as a "Normal, Realistic, Human". Askeladd has his good side and evil side, he commit sins yet he does good stuff, probably like any other human being, He's a 2D character that feels like any other Human in real life. Unlike 99.9% of the Anime's characters, no matter how cool, boring, badass, evil they're, It's really rare to find a realistic character (aka can be a real human) among them. |
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| It doesn't matter if he's an antagonist or an anti-hero, he can be one in one episode and the other in the next, not everything has to be categorized. He is definitely an evil bastard and a badass though, that's for sure, it's not the first time we've seen anime characters who are both despicable and likable at the same time, but it's still fascinating. |
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