DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this chapter. If you want to discuss future events, please use separate threads. DO NOT ask where to read/download this chapter or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material. DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters. DO read the Manga Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER.
----------------------------------------
Good sequel, this Jojo didn't die fighting. My favorite part was the horse carriage fight, it was sick! Looking forward to part 3.
Was definitely an improvement over the first part. There were still some things I didn't like, such as how bare bones every character turned out to be. But, they were at least entertaining for the most part, unlike in Phantom Blood.
I'm also not a fan of how Jojo had nearly every fight scene, aside from a few that Ceasar had. Jojo himself, though, was pretty amusing and a definite upgrade from Jonathon who was just...boring, I guess.
7/10. Looking forward to part 3 as well.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."
Improvement over Phantom Blood in character and fight area, but the antagonists weren't as interesting as Dio. Dio and Jonathan shared a bond. The Pillar Men were just random cardboard villains. And for Christ sake, ACDC? Really? An ancient being named ACDC?
ZetaZaku said: Improvement over Phantom Blood in character and fight area, but the antagonists weren't as interesting as Dio. Dio and Jonathan shared a bond. The Pillar Men were just random cardboard villains. And for Christ sake, ACDC? Really? An ancient being named ACDC?
ZetaZaku said: Improvement over Phantom Blood in character and fight area, but the antagonists weren't as interesting as Dio. Dio and Jonathan shared a bond. The Pillar Men were just random cardboard villains. And for Christ sake, ACDC? Really? An ancient being named ACDC?
The ending was very good. This arc had a vast improvement over the first arc. I'm glad that Jojo managed to survive and hope he appears in the next arcs.
Part 2 of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is such a vast improvement over Phantom Blood that it's almost astounding. You don't need to look any further than the JoJo's themselves to see the disparity in quality. In Phantom Blood we got Jonathan, a boring character with a bland personality that doesn't extend past being good, here we're treated to a far more entertaining character that is Joseph. He's a lot livelier than Jonathan, a lot more unique with his trickster personality & is easily able to carry his part alone. Granted, he didn't entirely have to, the other characters aren't as great as Joseph but most of them are likable enough & personally, the includes the villains who are also superior to part 1's villain, Dio Brando.
I'm not really in the mood to get all in-depth with Battle Tendency or talk about it at length for very much longer, probably because this is my third time experiencing the story so I'll leave off with a rating, 7/10.
My nigga SPEED WEED died a virgin, shit ain't right :(
Gotta love after all of these years Joseph is still the same massive racist we all know and love xD.
I'm surprised I still enjoyed this part considering I already watch the anime version. Definitely a step up from part I like many stated...as soon as the training regiment by Lisa Lisa began, the writing really improved from there on imo.
I don't know how I feel about the last battle, but I like the ending overall and the fact that finally a Joestar member actually survived to his later life. Great hopes for the 3rd part.
One thing I really wanted to see is Jojo's reaction to finding out Lisa Lisa was his mother all along, did they ever had a mother-son relationship after that :DD hard to imagine though.
An epilogue that still retains the funny side that survived through this whole series of bloody fights.
The 80s part was a great way to end it.
5/5 "I like my walkman, though."
THis part was overall way funnier than the previous one, the fights were less "boring" (thanks to the more varied abilities featured in them) and the characters still as simple as before were attractive enough. on the other hand, it lacked a certain atmosphere (while Phantom Blood had this dumb mix of gothic classic / kung-fu movie). The villains had not the allure of the psychopath DIO but at least, they were worthy fighters.
The drawings had less weirdly proportionates bodies and looked slightly less desorganized than before
Same concept as before: an action piece, mix of many "B-movies" and no fear for ridiculousness. Just using another recipe.
6.5-/10
TitoPuente said: Not even sure what people see in Jojos so far, its a total mess. hope it improves in the upcoming arcs.
This is what I saw in the original saga (I-III):
a series of fights exploiting a maximal number of B/Z movies and other nice things like that. At least, that's the case for the initial saga (parts 1-3).
Don't go in for a possible story. Try it because you have a certain love for victorian fantasy novels, 80s US horror movies, 70s HK kung-fu movies and other oldies like that.
It's a cheerful mix of probably most things the author liked back in those days, powdered by large amounts of ridiculousness..
the only good things about both jojos so far are the poses, the deaths of comrades and the ends. for the rest, this sequel was even more dissapointing than phantom blood. not even sure what people see in Jojos so far, its a total mess. hope it improves in the upcoming arcs.
So much better than Phantom Blood. Araki really came into his own as a writer with this arc due to the more well rounded characters and more memorable fights.
Kars thought that he could propel himself back to earth like a rocket but the moment he pushed himself back to adjust his trajectory, he got frozen by the coldness of space and drifted off farther and farther towards the oblivion. Floating aimlessly in space for all eternity as a rock isn't much of a prompt for philosophical questions so he just stopped thinking entirely.
Jojo walked into his own funeral without anyone knowing that he was alive and well just because his wife, Suzie Q, forgot to send the telegram about it so she can enjoy her time with him. Imagine if that golden ring Joseph gave her was Wamuu's lip ring~
I liked how the anime showed the character's futures as they were being narrated because it made that last look at them sound like an actual goodbye. I finally finished one of my favorite parts of Jojo and it sure felt great!
Ironic end for Cars. That last bit with SeuzieQ was hilarious. Overall, a happy ending.
I like this part equally as Phantom Blood. It had a lot of improvements in the fighting and character department, sure, but it just didn't feel as fun to me like the first one did. None of the Pillar men could rival Dio, and some of the relationships just felt rushed. Joseph's antics while intriguing and carrying the entire part, kinda felt flat to me and got old fast too. Both are fine for what they are. I actually prefer the two parts in the manga to the anime adaptation thanks to that gorgeous artwork by Araki, and the little details which I feel got lost in the anime.
Anyway, I give both 'Phantom Blood' & 'Battle Tendency' a 7/10 rating!
Firstly, poor freaking Cars. I guess that is the fate of immortal enemies in anime and manga and probably everything else. They either get sealed away to be awaken once more or put into a state of perpetual and endless suffering. I’ve seen both a few times and Cars got the worst imaginable, freezing in space he drifted while conscious and wished for death until at some point his thinking just clicked off. That’s like grotesque and cruel. I imagine the last words of Joseph echoed in his head over and over again.
Then we had the sad funeral of friend, uncle, mother, and grandmother to be surprised by Joseph showing up with a wife and getting pissed yet again at people calling him an idiot. It made for a nice moment, and although it wasn’t his fault, it feels so in line for Joseph to even fool the audience of his death. Joseph has a cool robotic arm from Stroheim and he survived, was saved in the ocean and then tended to by Suzie Q much like Erina tended to Jonathan’s wounds after the mansion burned down. It’s sweet and Suzie Q is definitely fitting for Joseph, both are quite dumb in the everyday and equally adorable. The double panel of her when Joseph asked if she forgot to let all of his loved ones know he wasn’t dead was pretty hysterical.
After she ran off we got a good conclusion to Battle Tendency and Phantom Blood, both plot wise and character wise. Especially with the likes of Speedwagon and Erina passing away and Cars being sent to eternal suffering. Rest in peace to both of those legends and also to Stroheim. I was most hit by his passing since Joseph had hoped to meet him again but at least he went out doing what he loved. Lisa Lisa moved back with Joseph and married a hollywood screenwriter and Smokey became the first black mayor of Georgia! Good stuff guys.
The end teased with the next part and provided a pattern. The pattern is that each part may skip two generations as to let the world pass enough to make the next part feel like a brand new thing. Joseph, an older man now, hasn’t changed too much. Perhaps he almost got his anger under control which was teased at with him letting the kid go until he noticed he was Japanese and kicked him in the shin, heh. He has a beloved daughter born between him and presumably Suzie Q, and that daughter married a Japanese guy and took her away forming anger towards them. He’s afraid his grandson won’t even recognize him!! It’s sweet because it shows his short fuse is still around and it shows he’s just as caring about his family as ever. Papa or Grandpa Joseph sounds like a blast. Flying off listening to the Beatles, I presume he’s going to go be the Speedwagon for the next Joestar protagonist! It’s definitely nice he broke the Joestar curse, perhaps thematically fitting with taking down Cars who started it to begin with.
Okay, now onto my overall thoughts:
My experience with Battle Tendency was an odd one. It was full of ups and downs, it had some moments I just kind of liked, and moments that made me feel like nothing in Phantom Blood got close to. I started by hating the fighting system but I came to love it and then I got bored of it. The pacing was uncanny in the beginning… Whereas it fit Phantom Blood’s incredibly tight and small scale story, it didn’t fit the loose structure of Battle Tendency in my opinion. Joseph hardly having any strong direction and following his whims was whiplashed around from place to place and it felt like the plot was driving him and even going against him at times. Misadventures are fun but I wish, like the fighting system does, the pacing and structure fit his personality more. Perhaps like One Piece, following Joseph’s whims and passions yet having that lead to what is central to the plot rather than pushing him into it. It often didn’t give me a drive to see what would happen each step of the way, and if I was reading to see Joseph’s hijinks I would have much preferred to focus on that. This dissonance of a fast paced plot and a lead who didn’t feel cut for it is why I describe the early pacing as uncanny. However, when it became more organic at ACDC I had no qualms and liked it about as much as Phantom Blood’s.
Further, I felt a lack of synergy with the cast. To contrast Phantom Blood which got me to love Dio and Jonathan deeply, and quickly introduced Speedwagon and Will while creating a unique relationship with the trio and a constantly growing tension with Dio, I felt this cast lacked something like that. Perhaps this is because Caesar’s prideful, tsundere schtick didn’t really do it for me, but until he died, I felt him and Joseph as a duo were fun but nothing that struck me as interesting. Perhaps more content with the two of them would have been good. Beyond that, until Caesar died, Lisa Lisa felt like she was simply a stern but kind teacher and nothing more. One could potentially argue that Joseph hating Lisa Lisa and coming to have respect for her, and Caesar and Joseph starting as childish enemies and forming admiration for each other is a comparable group dynamic to Phantom Blood. That of Speedwagon overcoming his fear to follow his conscience and help the pursuit of Dio for Jonathan and his own sense of justice. Those very guts winning Will’s respect after much butting heads between them. Will’s facade of eccentricity on top of his pain and duty while he bonded with Jonathan’s similar strength and trauma. Jonathan’s kindness to Speedwagon and his admiration and care for Jonathan paired with them carrying the burden of their fallen master together. To say this is comparable is probably fair but to me, the dynamic of Battle Tendency’s cast lacked a certain warmth that was burning in Phantom Blood’s cast, one full of men with very different personalities but a strong foundation for their resolution.
Lisa Lisa’s facade cracking just as Zeppeli’s did is one of my favorite Jojo moments, but for a group dynamic, I only got that sense of warmth I’m speaking of in regards to Joseph and Stroheim. Their dynamic felt real to me. In this way, Stroheim was one of the characters I ended up appreciating most after Joseph, especially with the stubborn bromance born between Englishman and Nazi. But, I don’t wish Stroheim was a more major character because his insanity and overconfidence were perfect for small bursts, all of which enhanced his relationship with Joseph. To speak more broadly about character, if you read my posts you will have seen that Cars was a big disappointment for me, I didn’t end up feeling for him in any passionate way which does denote the difference between Cars and the deeply personal Dio. However, for Wham to be built up for so long and be a man of honor and strength, disconnected from his foes, but feeling for them on his path of meaning was at least a nice alternative. Wham also speaks to the core theme of respecting but not agreeing, respecting but not grieving those who are strong on the other side of conflict which was super touching to me. And, ignoring pacing, Joseph was great as a protagonist! His self interested and reckless whims and anger paired with his charisma were already enough to laugh at whatever he chose to do every chapter. But beyond that, his sincere love of family and friends, his respect towards some of his foes and his hatred of arrogant jerks picking on people tapped into Jonathan and made Joseph feel like a beautiful mix. A hilarious punk with a great reason to love him on a deeper level.
The fights had me take a confused 360. I started hating them due to being jaded over my love for Phantom Blood’s fights before realizing how they fit Joseph perfectly and allowed us to follow along with them before ultimately thinking they became stale, even taking away from the last phases of the Wham fight. Seeing him always win through the same kind of formula had me want him to lose and I don’t think that’s the intended feeling I should get. That said, it took a long time to get there and for the most part I always did enjoy them, it was just sad when it started to take away from the tension, and there were some encounters that broke the formula which I absolutely adored. Wham and Cars mixed around when Joseph had control and the Stroheim/Joseph duo in both Cars fights was great!! That said, I do wish we had an opponent that was more than what ACDC teased, someone that could match Joseph’s wits. Cars was said to be intelligent which got my hopes up but he ended up feeling more so crafty and falling for tricks without much push back nonetheless. To illustrate my point, I always had this fantasy in my head of Joseph going so next level with his scheming that Cars would anticipate Joseph had a plan and leave himself open to casually getting punched in the face or something. A fantasy that the mind games would be so deep on both sides that the amateur move would become the smart move. Unfortunately, until the end, Joseph was basically always the brains.
Why do I express all of this? Well because I freaking loved this part but something about it always sat off with me. Despite the Pillar Men being some of the coolest villains I’ve ever seen who felt like actual superior beings above mere human issues and of which the humans were the initiators of combat with! Despite having such memorable moments like the hamon trailing off of Santana like a raincoat and rippling the blood around them, or Wham walking through Mark like he stepped on an ant and not noticing the others there. Despite moments of emotional peaks which had me bawling my eyes out or the comedy which had me laughing ridiculously hard. Despite all of this, I lacked a serious investment to Battle Tendency and I wanted to explore why that was.
Overall, I don’t want more Phantom Blood, it did what it wanted to and it finished as of now one my favorite manga. Even if I don’t like Battle Tendency as much, I think it’s necessary to change it up and I can absolutely see the kind of person that would like the more loose, more fun, more comical, more rule-of-cool Battle Tendency over it. That’s just not me, for now anyways. But despite it lacking some crucial components to hypnotize me, I am glad I read through it and got so much out of it anyways. Excited to go onto part 3 in a few months!
7/10
Overall, I thought Battle Tendency was okay. I can't say that I liked Joseph as much as most fans of Jojo do. Sometimes he was funny and other times I felt his comedy was distracting. This includes his fourth-wall-breaking predictions of the characters' thoughts. It kind of took me out of my immersion into the story at times. There were also some parts where the action was a little hard to follow and the explanations for Joseph's strategies were a little hard to understand. I know a lot of people in the comments section are roasting Phantom Blood in comparison to this part. But I personally liked Phantom Blood a lot more. Yeah, it may have been generic. But it drew me in more.
Not as good as the anime with its rough art but still the most entertaining JoJo part, the battles are a ton of fun and the characters are all goofy and likeable though I wish it was a little longer.
First time I read it I liked the anime more, but on a reread? Hmm, maybe still, but it's a lot closer.
Yo, who the fuck where those guys picking a fight with JoJo at his funeral when they don't even recognise him? Various funeral servicemen obviously, but I can't stop imagining it as some random strangers at his funeral.