nachomaxo1 said: I... I really don't know how you got any of that from my post, but okay. I guess you read the word "exploitation" in a discussion about porn and nothing else besides that, so it triggered your defense mechanisms? hold on a minute are you one of these people that think "having sex and violence in any piece of media equals bad and it has to be exploiting someone even though it's either acted or fictional" no no no that will not be the case at all it doesn't exploit anyone it's just a movie that happens to violent content,sexual content or both what's wrong with that sure the movie can be bad but diffidently not because of nonsense reasons like that It was proposed by the other user to describe sexual content that's extremely violent, exploitative and/or non-consensual for "shock value" (such as torture porn) as a grade higher than hentai in the explicit genre scale. Not to describe all pornographic content, nor the presence of violence + sexual content in a work. No value judgment anywhere about anything. |
KosmonautSep 17, 2021 7:13 PM
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| This seems good. A few smart changes to genre labels that make sense and including themes is a nice addition. AnimeNewsNetwork has done themes along with the genres for years. It made total sense and was well implemented. Glad MAL is finally doing that as well. |
| > Yaoi—now tagged "Boys Love" and "Erotica". What's next after this, are we calling manga cartoons or what? |
| Stop the sequels high-ranking stupidity. Group franchises in Top Anime page. Because Gintama is just "one" anime and not 5. |
| Shoujo ai = girl love alone Yuri = girls love plus explicit genre ecchi/erotica Why make things more complicated? used mal for over 10 years. This is one of the most disappointing moment ever on MAL with these changes. No point of splitting genre into genre/explicit genre/theme. What you need to do is not to change the current ones, "what you should do is add sub-genre" and search by "source manga/vn/game/original" Also, why do you think "rating" exist? (some uncen nude anime do not have explicit genre, I don't see the point of these changes. You gonna have to find a bigger team to work through this whole database find nude anime to add explicit) Should of just stick to the old format, easy and simple that been working fine for years. Also, these kind of things should be held on a beta site instead of the official site. We're not site staffs, we're not beta testers \o/ |
Fuwa_sanSep 17, 2021 11:46 PM
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Kosmonaut said: nachomaxo1 said: I... I really don't know how you got any of that from my post, but okay. I guess you read the word "exploitation" in a discussion about porn and nothing else besides that, so it triggered your defense mechanisms? hold on a minute are you one of these people that think "having sex and violence in any piece of media equals bad and it has to be exploiting someone even though it's either acted or fictional" no no no that will not be the case at all it doesn't exploit anyone it's just a movie that happens to violent content,sexual content or both what's wrong with that sure the movie can be bad but diffidently not because of nonsense reasons like that It was proposed by the other user to describe sexual content that's extremely violent, exploitative and/or non-consensual for "shock value" (such as torture porn) as a grade higher than hentai in the explicit genre scale. Not to describe all pornographic content, nor the presence of violence + sexual content in a work. No value judgment anywhere about anything. who's it still exploiting no one they're either fictional characters or it is acted no one is being exploited by it and the person that thinks that is a prude moron who doesn't know the difference fiction and reality how shock value equals "it must be exploiting someone" it doesn't that's just stupid it's still a pointless word and made up "genre" used by prudes that just want people to think like them and think "violence and sex content equal bad media" yes there's bad movies that have them but that's not the reason they're bad jeez can't pretentious critics call these movies bad and that's it and make up words that're stupid and wrong just to make an agenda |
nachomaxo1 said: It's called that way not because of reasons external to the work like you seem to think, but because of internal ones. Either the content depicted itself is exploitative (torture porn, child abuse, sexual slavery, revenge rape) or the way it's used is exploitative of the audience (shock value). Why is it exploitative of the audience? Because it gets your knee-jerk reaction, your flood of negative feelings for the hell of it and that's it. That's the end goal. There's nothing else, it doesn't make you question anything. It doesn't serve any other purpose, nor does it need to. It just disgusts you and that's the whole point of it. Kosmonaut said: I... I really don't know how you got any of that from my post, but okay. I guess you read the word "exploitation" in a discussion about porn and nothing else besides that, so it triggered your defense mechanisms? It was proposed by the other user to describe sexual content that's extremely violent, exploitative and/or non-consensual for "shock value" (such as torture porn) as a grade higher than hentai in the explicit genre scale. Not to describe all pornographic content, nor the presence of violence + sexual content in a work. No value judgment anywhere about anything. who's it still exploiting no one they're either fictional characters or it is acted no one is being exploited by it and the person that thinks that is a prude moron who doesn't know the difference fiction and reality how shock value equals "it must be exploiting someone" it doesn't that's just stupid it's still a pointless word and made up "genre" used by prudes that just want people to think like them and think "violence and sex content equal bad media" yes there's bad movies that have them but that's not the reason they're bad jeez can't pretentious critics call these movies bad and that's it and make up words that're stupid and wrong just to make an agenda Besides, I wasn't even the one that proposed this category, I argued against it as a explicit genre and suggested it could be a theme instead. I really don't understand why you have a personal vendetta to this very established notion, that's not anti-porn in the slightest, nor does it claim a work that has those things "bad" by default, calling for it to be banned or censored. It seems you're just derailing this thread for the sake of derailing – or worse, because people are using a word you don't like without looking into what it means in context or what it addresses. I'll do you better, since you seem to really not know. We're talking about Mondo films, not you rape hentai with a sprinkle of gore. |
KosmonautSep 18, 2021 3:42 AM
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Kosmonaut said: nachomaxo1 said: It's called that way not because of reasons external to the work like you seem to think, but because of internal ones. Either the content depicted itself is exploitative (torture porn, child abuse, sexual slavery, revenge rape) or the way it's used is exploitative of the audience (shock value). Why is it exploitative of the audience? Because it gets your knee-jerk reaction, your flood of negative feelings for the hell of it and that's it. That's the end goal. There's nothing else, it doesn't make you question anything. It doesn't serve any other purpose, nor does it need to. It just disgusts you and that's the whole point of it. who's it still exploiting no one they're either fictional characters or it is acted no one is being exploited by it and the person that thinks that is a prude moron who doesn't know the difference fiction and reality how shock value equals "it must be exploiting someone" it doesn't that's just stupid it's still a pointless word and made up "genre" used by prudes that just want people to think like them and think "violence and sex content equal bad media" yes there's bad movies that have them but that's not the reason they're bad jeez can't pretentious critics call these movies bad and that's it and make up words that're stupid and wrong just to make an agenda Besides, I wasn't even the one that proposed this category, I argued against it as a explicit genre and suggested it could be a theme instead. I really don't understand why you have a personal vendetta to this very established notion, that's not anti-porn in the slightest, nor does it claim a work that has those things "bad" by default, calling for it to be banned or censored. It seems you're just derailing this thread for the sake of derailing – or worse, because people are using a word you don't like without looking into what it means in context or what it addresses. I'll do you better, since you seem to really not know. We're talking about Mondo films, not you rape hentai with a sprinkle of gore. I wasn't talking to you you were the one that responded and not the guy who used the word you are the one who wanted to response to what I said in my response for the guy that I was responding to shock value is not exploiting anybody since again it's either acted or fictional if they used the word manipulation then that would've been fine since it's not an extreme word like "exploitation" but "exploitation" is used by these people since it's such a big word and that will make them look "smart" but you being shocked isn't exactly exploitation it's just being shocked at athing that are or trying to disturb you or make you feel sad lol these type of media could be good as well since it doesn't stop it from having good writing or a good story and the thing is it's not it's vault that you're a weak person emotionally (AGE RATINGS EXIST FOR A REASON) the word is useless again since the right word for it exists and it's called shock value and well I hate pretentious critics who use stupid and useless words like these for the sake of looking "smart" instead of saying it's bad and move on words like shlock and grindhouse are also useless and stupid words I hate for the reason and also used by those people just say directly it's bad no one is gonna kill you for it since well it's entertainment at the end of the day and it's not worth that getting angry over about to the point of saying of saying "dark stories that have violence of any kind is bad since you feel emotions and feeling any emotion of any kind is bad and that means it must exploit you" that's my opinion on these excuses for just not saying the simple word bad |
nachomaxo1Sep 18, 2021 4:17 AM
| @Kineta, I have a couple of questions. Since genres and demographics have been added as columns to our lists, will themes be added as well? Because I'm assuming there's gonna be a lot of them so I guess it's possible you won't add them, which would kinda suck, because at least the ones that were genres before are pretty important and I would like to filter my list with them. The other is unlikely but i want to ask if synopsis will be added as a column as well. Probably not so I may use a script to add them to the the comments to utilize them in custom layouts since they're gonna be a column as you said. Which leads me to the last question. What's the maximum size of comments? Is it bigger or the same as tags? And since we can use BBcodes in them does that mean I could have a video next to an anime? |
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| @nachomaxo1 You... You quoted me, not them. Who's going to see it is me, not them. But okay, dude. You do you and keep having issues with a word to describe a genre of film because "bad word, I don't like it". Godspeed. |
KosmonautSep 18, 2021 4:37 AM
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| Thanks for the update! |
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| This seems great, and I like what I've seen so far. I am a little worried about themes/tags though, for example the average anime fan doesn't understand what isekai is, the protagonist has to be physically transported to another world, meaning something like SAO is NOT isekai despite commom belief. |
| Everything seems okay with one exception, I can't understand how in the hell someone would think it's a good idea to rename "Thriller" with "Suspense". |
LEGENDS_OF_ANIME said: Yes, I read the Suggestions forum. I won't comment on other things here which are unrelated to this topic.Just a casual question. Does the mods read the suggestions of the Suggestions Forum?? (at least the good ones) Shishio-kun said: Ah, sorry about that. It was probably a copy paste error. I'll forward it o7@Kineta Right now demographics (like Seinen in the examples below) on the manga list are under a genre class, while the demographics on the anime list are under a demographics class. FiliCZ said: Themes will either appear as their own column or there will be the option to populate your Tags with the Themes existing on the entry, so that you can then tweak and tailor them in your own list to what you agree with.Since genres and demographics have been added as columns to our lists, will themes be added as well? Because I'm assuming there's gonna be a lot of them so I guess it's possible you won't add them, which would kinda suck, because at least the ones that were genres before are pretty important and I would like to filter my list with them. The other is unlikely but i want to ask if synopsis will be added as a column as well. Probably not so I may use a script to add them to the the comments to utilize them in custom layouts since they're gonna be a column as you said. Probably not.What's the maximum size of comments? Is it bigger or the same as tags? And since we can use BBcodes in them does that mean I could have a video next to an anime? I don't know the size off the top of my head. You should be able to test it on your list.acestrawbs said: I did not say "because it's difficult to implement, we're throwing it in the trash and doing other things instead." I said it requires significant backend work to support it and so other features are going to appear before it. Throwing every single developer's time 100% on dark mode and ignoring every other feature that is requested or could be done to improve the website in the meantime is not a smart plan however you look at it.I cannot say that this update was needed especially before dark mode something a lot of people want and the excuse that it is difficult to implement so we are doing other features just means that it will take longer as people will be working on the new features instead of dark mode. |
| This is So Exciting. Awesome work with the Update. |
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| About the Award-winning anime... Didn't ya learn enough from people (Gigguk, TheAnimeMan, etcs) review Crunchyroll anime award AOTY? Pretty bad that I stop caring about those bias result. It's horrible idea to even have it unless we trying be like them and have people trash on MAL for same reason as CR. |
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| @Kineta any chance brighter mode is coming soon ? ( jk, just wanted to try to make you laugh ) |
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| Copied from mangadex lol I have to appreciate the new actors pages tho, good change Too bad you didn’t take the opportunity to add filtering by source material type |
jendoreiSep 18, 2021 8:58 PM
| @KoitoSuki You don't MAL is trying to appeal themselves to a larger audiences/the normie population that hate and complain about ecchi/etcs. So make sure your family and friends don't see you searching for anime because most of the type they see this huge tag highlight in RED. They doing something complete different from most streaming website have on their genre search tag. (can't go specific on which site since aka rules etcs) /o\ To sum it, a vast majority of sites were looking up to MAL and their genre format Now they're the odd one with a different genre system. The name change doesn't make sense. Need to try use common sense to see if these terms are actually popular/catchy to use which they're not. Award Winning? Crunchyroll tried that, and everyone knew how cringe it was to watch the result. Avant Garde? Dementia, TRY google "Anime Avant Garde" and see what you result you get!!!!! Horrible change. Do not works. Suspense? Same as above^ DO you google search "suspense anime" Work Life? You gonna have anime with both Work Life + Slice of Life? e.g. New Game, Hanasaku Iroha. Then you gonna have anime with only Work Life? e.g Shirobako, Bakuman. Yea people might get confused. But it's okay to add imo. Just don't change the other genre name. |
Fuwa_sanSep 18, 2021 11:08 PM
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| It would be nice if you guys also included a "donghua" or "non-Japanese" or "Chinese/Korean" tags, simply because sometimes I would like to watch Chinese/Korean works, but don't really have any way to filter them in the system so I can choose from them. I think that will also improve the filtering system :D |
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| Why is Work Life a genre when School is a theme? Both broadly come under the umbrella of Slice-of-Life as a genre, so both should be themes? And why has Music been relegated to just a theme, when it's very much a distinct genre of works in its own right? Also, what purpose does an Award Winning genre serve? That should also just be a theme, if even that. There's a lot more here that I don't at all understand the logic of (demoting both Space and Mecha to themes seems bizarre, for example), but I'll leave it at this: I think there's a lot of decisions made here that need to be seriously reconsidered, as this just makes the system more unwieldy and less intuitive than it already was. This just seems like change for change's sake as much as anything else, in all honesty. |
| First all entries on the site were erroneously changed to be all Japanese titles even though many were known in Japan by an English title officially. Now shoujo-ai + yuri and shounen-ai + yaoi are now turned to girls love and boys love? Lol This makes me feel like MAL has no planned direction and just doing things randomly. I mean these seem like total opposite plans. I think separating tags and genres and themes could be good though. @Kineta Why is everything that was yaoi or yuri erotica now? Is that just a temporary placeholder or what? I mean wouldn't some be hentai or ecchi not all erotica? And is erotica supposed to be only borderline hentai or is it also something where sexual content is just part of the main plot but not necessarily purely to arouse viewers/readers sort of like how it appears in Indie art films or a Japanese genre im unfamiliar with "pink film"? Does that mean loli and shota be used the same way except as themes where if someone wanted to look for or exclude lolicon and shotacon when searching ecchi/erotica/hentai and used by themselves for all other use? Or are those terms loli and shota too ill defined for users to control them? Speaking of themes what is to be done about themes that are spoilers? What criteria is being used to define avant garde anime? Dementia was difficult but avant garde seems just as if not more difficult to apply to anime. Is it based on art style or a plot that isn't a normal linear plot or the overall project (like it it was released as a multi media project from start) or what? You mentioned genres like magical girl being used as themes. Am I assuming correctly that things like cyberpunk and steampunk also will be themes because they can be considered subcategories of scifi? I think @watchtilltandava made fair point about magic being removed. Not all magic is synonymous with fantasy or even magical girls. I think one possible solution is adding magic realism as a genre. Magic realism is considered not fantasy but magic in our normal modern world. I've always seen issue with "horror" anime. Some of it is just horror themed not something even trying to be scary (though hard to tell since 90% isnt scary anyway) .. So what is to be done about those situations? Just make vampires, zombies etc themes? (and yes I also see issue with the term zombie because Western style zombies are rare in anime so some more culturally neutral term i may expect to see instead. Or keep them labeled genre as horror? Or horror being redundantly used as both genre and theme? Sorry i cant think of many specific examples that I personally but things like Sankarea. Anyone agree with me the genre horror is tricky when it comes to anime? Actual horror seems more prominent in manga. Also what currently defines supernatural as a genre? The term has many different uses because people tend to confuse it with paranormal. Is "for VR" getting a genre or something? It's rare still as far as I know but increasingly appearing where there is anime made to be viewed with VR glasses/goggles. I think it would be a good one to have. Technically it's a theme but it would need to be a genre to avoid people confused and adding anime that has VR as a theme of the show but not made for VR viewing. For the record suspense isnt a synonym for thriller. Suspense is a much more common used term though and they are similar genres but are different. Perfect Blue id say is a thriller for example. Thrillers usually have more in common with psychological horror and suspense is more in common with action dramas. |
traedSep 19, 2021 2:19 AM
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| Can the mods give us an update on the damage this update done on MALgraph (Anime.Plus) and MAL-Badge? You're changing the platform which every other sites that use/reference MAL? (taiga, livechart, etcs) Are we gonna have slightly different genre tag than those sites? |
Fuwa_sanSep 19, 2021 4:31 AM
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traed said: Please see my earlier response:Why is everything that was yaoi or yuri erotica now? Is that just a temporary placeholder or what? Kineta said: Kosmonaut said: The genres are going to be a bit all over the place for right now, since the devs mass migrated the old data. All three should definitely not be in the same entry together. It should one of the three (or none).Another thing, @Kineta. I do grasp the difference between ecchi, erotica, and hentai. What I don't understand is how it's possible to find in the db works tagged with both erotica and hentai, or even all three: ecchi, erotica, and hentai. Since we're also redefining the definitions of the main genres, the moderators and I will be sitting together and combing though the entries for a while. Please see it as a bit of a journey that will take some time, rather than as a sudden fix. |
@Kineta thanks for answering all these questions and being patient 😊🙏🙏🙏 |
Kineta said: I am extremely excited (and slightly terrified) to announce that we are in the process of rolling out a new Genres + Themes system on MAL! When all development is complete, we aim to have a robust system which consists of three parts:
By limiting the genres to only a handful of top-level categories, and opening themes to the community to apply to entries, we hope to greatly improve the number of keywords our databases can be searched with. Since the genres system was extremely outdated (an overhaul has been a long time coming), we've split development into two parts. Part 1 - Genres Released today ✅ Split existing demographics and themes away from genres. ✅ Modify old genres: rename, remove, and add missing ones. ✅ Add genres and demographics as columns to the Anime List and Manga List (edit yours here). 🔜 Create new and strong definitions for each genre so that its usage is better defined. ↑ The DB mods and I are currently working hard on this, so expect some genre shuffling over the next weeks. Part 2 - Themes Coming Soon 🔜 Allow all users to vote on pre-defined themes by using the "Tags" section of their Anime/Manga Lists. 🔜 Modify current themes: rename, remove, and add missing ones (e.g. Isekai!). ↑ Currently systematically reviewing 600~700 themes to decide the final ones while tech is in development. New Genre List
New Themes List Coming Soon I hope this post was clear and that you'll look forward to continuous developments as this system rolls out! [September 15 Update] I am fine with some change with the genres. The theme is strange lol but it will not be difficult to get used to (that or in the case of those who use tags we leave some original genres that became Themes) In the case of Gourmet, the idea seems fine to me because of the following: - In anime challenges ask = Watch an anime related to music, cooking, plastic arts or literature. (that is in the case of Latin American challenges) - in the anime challenges of Anime Watching Challenges Club [AWCc] ask = to see an anime with a meal on the cover. Some genres do not convince me of everything like removing Yaio and Yuri, and replacing it with BL and GL is worse. Since the Shounen Ai and the Shoujo Ai of Yaoi and Yuri have always been differentiated by name but that both are called the same is a bit disastrous in my opinion the only difference now is that they put BL / GL and Hentai by Yaoi / Yuri and Hentai I apologize, my English is not my mother tongue, because I say that I am not completely convinced to put BL / GL to the Yaoi / Yuri because now there will be more confusion in an anime page it has everything mixed: since on that page they put all the Shounen Ai (since now it is called Boys Love) Yaoi then presents discussions with the Furoshi because he takes over that session saying: "READ ACA SAYS SHOUNEN AI" I understand that the difference between a Shounen Ai / Shoujo Ai (Boys Love / Girl Love) of the Yaoi / Yuri is that in the BL / GL you do not get to sex instead in the Yaoi / Yuri if there is. I show my discontent because there are people engrossed in that a Yaoi is a Shounen Ai when it is not. I like the rest of the changes they made with the Genres and Themes, but that animes will become part of the family of Work Life |
EnderVsqz626Sep 19, 2021 1:47 PM
AchromaticRaven said: I was wondering, will new themes be added? For example, since we have "vampires" and "demons", the "zombie" theme would be useful for people that want to see something like Highschool of the Dead, Gakkou Gurashi, etc. I think it would be very useful to add it. lol I think your suggestion of a Zombie Theme is very good because if there are "Demons" and "Vampire" why not "Zombie" |
| Thumbs up for no longer mislabeling Shonen/Shoujo/etc. as genres. This part is a little bit weird though; "Avant Garde—old "Dementia" genre renamed, since majority of works fit the new genre." Avant Garde and Dementia are completely different and unrelated things. Avant Garde means experimental, out of the norm, etc. and Dementia covers a variety of psychological disorders? I'm not sure what anime used to be labeled as Dementia and are now going to be labeled as Avant Garde, but lumping these two definitions together is a huge mistake lmao. Avant Garde - The Tatami Galaxy, Asobi Asobase, monogotari series, etc. (All very different/strange anime, they push boundaries and do abnormal things) Dementia - Welcome To the NHK, Perfect Blue, Future Diaries, My Little Monster etc. (All contain a person with a mental illness) Completely different and unrelated genres. Please confirm the definition before using them. |
Hokage_JasonSep 19, 2021 2:10 PM
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
| well rethinking Avant Garde if it is strange since reading about it today I found this: "Avant-garde, or avant-garde in French, refers to people or works that are experimental or innovative, in particular with regard to the art, culture and politics .. " What does Avant-garde have to do with Dementia? |
| Thank you for saying this <33 Also, the class name issue you reported should be fixed now~ |
Kineta said: Themes will either appear as their own column or there will be the option to populate your Tags with the Themes existing on the entry, so that you can then tweak and tailor them in your own list to what you agree with. I hope you guys add it as a third column, while it would be nice for MAL to have a populate link, we can already do this with userscripts, and having an actual column and url will let us do Romance Comedy School Shounen https://myanimelist.net/animelist/ShaggyZE?status=7&order=4&order2=2&tag=Romance&genre=4&theme=23&demographic=27 |
   My Userscripts - Themes - Userstyles - Extensions (Chrome/Firefox) [API CSS] MAL-Scraper-API Cover/CSS Generator |
Kineta said: traed said: Please see my earlier response:Why is everything that was yaoi or yuri erotica now? Is that just a temporary placeholder or what? Kineta said: The genres are going to be a bit all over the place for right now, since the devs mass migrated the old data. All three should definitely not be in the same entry together. It should one of the three (or none). Since we're also redefining the definitions of the main genres, the moderators and I will be sitting together and combing though the entries for a while. Please see it as a bit of a journey that will take some time, rather than as a sudden fix. Ah alright. I missed that one somehow. I was just thrown off from the description you gave in the opening post about what yaoi and yuri turned into. Still i do have those other inquiries and suggestions I made after that little section. Have those other things not been decided yet? |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
traed said: No problem. I try to keep the first posts short because I'm aware lots of people don't read, but I'm also aware info falls through the cracks that way :'DAh alright. I missed that one somehow. I was just thrown off from the description you gave in the opening post about what yaoi and yuri turned into. Still i do have those other inquiries and suggestions I made after that little section. Have those other things not been decided yet? Which themes will be added and genre definitions is still a W.I.P. I have about half of them written and we hope to post them on the genre pages when they're done. It's a lot of reading multiple websites and then looking at tons of anime/manga and going "does this really fit? should it?" etc. For the themes, it's my intention to publicly share the spreadsheet I've created to systematically review 600~700 themes from other anime/manga websites when the development is done. I'm 120% confident that not everyone will be satisfied with every single decision made :'D But hopefully it'll be a good foundation to start with. |
Kineta said: traed said: No problem. I try to keep the first posts short because I'm aware lots of people don't read, but I'm also aware info falls through the cracks that way :'DAh alright. I missed that one somehow. I was just thrown off from the description you gave in the opening post about what yaoi and yuri turned into. Still i do have those other inquiries and suggestions I made after that little section. Have those other things not been decided yet? Which themes will be added and genre definitions is still a W.I.P. I have about half of them written and we hope to post them on the genre pages when they're done. It's a lot of reading multiple websites and then looking at tons of anime/manga and going "does this really fit? should it?" etc. For the themes, it's my intention to publicly share the spreadsheet I've created to systematically review 600~700 themes from other anime/manga websites when the development is done. I'm 120% confident that not everyone will be satisfied with every single decision made :'D But hopefully it'll be a good foundation to start with. Alright, thanks. But what? Why publicly change genres and themes before even deciding what they actually mean? That really seems backwards. Have you and others been taking notes of suggestions on how to handle the genres and themes that have been brought up here? |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
EnderVsqz626 said: well rethinking Avant Garde if it is strange since reading about it today I found this: "Avant-garde, or avant-garde in French, refers to people or works that are experimental or innovative, in particular with regard to the art, culture and politics .. " What does Avant-garde have to do with Dementia? Avant Garde has absolutely nothing to do with Dementia, they are completely unrelated words/genres. I think there's a misunderstanding of the definitions on the admin end lol. |
| Lolicons are scum. BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica. Naruto is objectively the best anime ever. HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad. |
nachomaxo1 said: Exploitation as a genre is a rather well defined term outside anime. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExploitationFilm or many Quentin Tarantino movies. The TV tropes entry gives a few examples, I feel the 80s and 90s OVA world has a lot more.Kosmonaut said: Yes, I get it. I'm just pointing out that the coexistence of these tags, even if only in GL or BL so far, are contradictory to each other. Maybe something to watch out for, maybe something the mods are going to regulate better in the future... Unless they want to stick to hentai meaning strictly the presence of het porn (as it was possible to have yuri + hentai tags before), as it had been so far. @inim Yeah, I added to my previous post that I could see a case for coupling ecchi with any of the other two, because, as you said, it has its own conventions regarding tantalizing content. As you said, hentai would be more "plot-less" work (though I would argue it is more explicit than erotica, so a "grading" scale could still work) meant exclusively to elicit quick and easy sexual arousal in the audience, while in erotica sexual content is used more as a progression of the plot and character dynamics plus being sexually arousing to the audience. Having both present at the same time is saying it is simultaneously only meant for sexual arousal while... not being only for sexual arousal... Do you get my gripe with it? I don't think the presence of less common kinks makes a work cross the erotica/hentai threshold, because, as I said, the difference is in the very premise of the tags. You could display a vomit fetish, while still not having it be commercial pornography, but part of a coming of age story, for example. Same goes for exploitation. "Hardcore pornography" is still pornography, in a sense, but yeah, maybe a tag for the most extreme works would be in good taste, however maybe in the yet-to-come tag section, rather than the explicit genre one. hold on a minute are you one of these people that think "having sex and violence in any piece of media equals bad and it has to be exploiting someone even though it's either acted or fictional" no no no that will not be the case at all it doesn't exploit anyone it's just a movie that happens to violent content,sexual content or both what's wrong with that sure the movie can be bad but diffidently not because of nonsense reasons like that Not each show with sexualized violence is of course a member of the exploitation genre, but it's a strong indicator that it may qualify. It basically has to be played for shock value, imho. So there is some co-relation to the anime only term "edge lord" material Kizuoibito is a text book example to me, as are many works of https://myanimelist.net/people/3020/Kazuo_Koike https://myanimelist.net/people/2992/Go_Nagai https://myanimelist.net/people/6414/Toshio_Maeda https://myanimelist.net/people/6583/Yasuomi_Umetsu https://myanimelist.net/people/6490/Shou_Aikawa and similar artists. Looking at our shared completed subset, there are two candidates (both plot-with-porn type): https://myanimelist.net/anime/3427/Oni-Tensei and https://myanimelist.net/anime/2315/Injuu_Alien My main point is that tagging those specimen with ecchi or erotica is horribly misleading, because sexualized violence is neither playful nor arousing (for most people). And "hentai" is too broad a term to be really useful. My suggestion is that MAL should re-use a definition which takes from what now would just be tagged hentai or not at all, because there is that genre. Whatever you call it. |
inimSep 20, 2021 2:01 AM
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inim said: nachomaxo1 said: Exploitation as a genre is a rather well defined term outside anime. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExploitationFilm or many Quentin Tarantino movies. The TV tropes entry gives a few examples, I feel the 80s and 90s OVA world has a lot more.hold on a minute are you one of these people that think "having sex and violence in any piece of media equals bad and it has to be exploiting someone even though it's either acted or fictional" no no no that will not be the case at all it doesn't exploit anyone it's just a movie that happens to violent content,sexual content or both what's wrong with that sure the movie can be bad but diffidently not because of nonsense reasons like that Not each show with sexualized violence is of course a member of the exploitation genre, but it's a strong indicator that it may qualify. It basically has to be played for shock value, imho. So there is some co-relation to the anime only term "edge lord" material Kizuoibito is a text book example to me, as are many works of https://myanimelist.net/people/3020/Kazuo_Koike https://myanimelist.net/people/2992/Go_Nagai https://myanimelist.net/people/6414/Toshio_Maeda https://myanimelist.net/people/6583/Yasuomi_Umetsu https://myanimelist.net/people/6490/Shou_Aikawa and similar artists. Looking at our shared completed subset, there are two candidates (both plot-with-porn type): https://myanimelist.net/anime/3427/Oni-Tensei and https://myanimelist.net/anime/2315/Injuu_Alien My main point is that tagging those specimen with ecchi or erotica is horribly misleading, because sexualized violence is neither playful nor arousing (for most people). And "hentai" is too broad a term to be really useful. My suggestion is that MAL should re-use a definition which takes from what now would just be tagged hentai or not at all, because there is that genre. Whatever you call it. still wouldn't approve of such a made up "genre" that just exists to say "sex and violence equal bad" shock value while can make problems of their own happen happen is not exploitation since it doesn't exploit literary no one since it's either acted or fictional if it was emotional manipulation then you would have some merit and not use an use extreme word like exploitation to say the whole "sex violence equal bad" bs also I like both oni tensei and alien of darkness because they are good action horror ovas and they don't exploit anyone since it's fictional and horror is meant to SCARE YOU AND SHOCK YOU ANYWAY an exploitation movie would be a ted bundy documentary with real footage of what he did that's the only true defection for what an exploitation movie a live action movie where the actors didn't consent to any of the violent or sexual scenes that star in in the movie not some acted or fictional violence that's just stupid imo and also tvtropes outside of trivia stuff is just "I coincidentally noticed that there's a very minor thing that happened in the stuff I watched,so it's a trope,and so it's a cliche,so it it will always bad everytime and I should force you to think like me with condensing remarks" |
nachomaxo1Sep 20, 2021 3:00 AM
nachomaxo1 said: I think our misunderstanding is that you imply two things on what I do which I actually do not.inim said: Exploitation as a genre is a rather well defined term outside anime. See https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExploitationFilm or many Quentin Tarantino movies. The TV tropes entry gives a few examples, I feel the 80s and 90s OVA world has a lot more. Not each show with sexualized violence is of course a member of the exploitation genre, but it's a strong indicator that it may qualify. It basically has to be played for shock value, imho. So there is some co-relation to the anime only term "edge lord" material Kizuoibito is a text book example to me, as are many works of https://myanimelist.net/people/3020/Kazuo_Koike https://myanimelist.net/people/2992/Go_Nagai https://myanimelist.net/people/6414/Toshio_Maeda https://myanimelist.net/people/6583/Yasuomi_Umetsu https://myanimelist.net/people/6490/Shou_Aikawa and similar artists. Looking at our shared completed subset, there are two candidates (both plot-with-porn type): https://myanimelist.net/anime/3427/Oni-Tensei and https://myanimelist.net/anime/2315/Injuu_Alien My main point is that tagging those specimen with ecchi or erotica is horribly misleading, because sexualized violence is neither playful nor arousing (for most people). And "hentai" is too broad a term to be really useful. My suggestion is that MAL should re-use a definition which takes from what now would just be tagged hentai or not at all, because there is that genre. Whatever you call it. still wouldn't approve of such a made up "genre" that's just exists to say "sex and violence equal bad" shock value while can make problems of their own happen happen is not exploitation since it doesn't exploit literary no one since it's either acted or fictional if it was emotional manipulation then you would have some merit and not use an use extreme word like exploitation to say the whole "sex violence equal bad" bs also I like both oni tensei and alien of darkness because they are good action horror ovas and they don't exploit anyone since it's fictional and horror is meant to SCARE YOU AND SHOCK YOU ANYWAY an exploitation movie would be a ted bundy documentary with real footage of what he did not some acted or fictional violence that's just stupid imo First, I don't make up a new term, I just import a well established genre from live action movies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_film Second, I don't judge the genre as either good or bad. Actually I'm a fan and watched a lot of entries in both anime and live action. I'm not a holier-than-you SJW (neither from the left nor right) who wants to tell other adults what they have to enjoy. It's strictly a genre, not a judgement. Finally, for those of you not familiar with the 80s/90s OVA world, I just thought of two examples from more recent years I'd add into the category: https://myanimelist.net/anime/40750/Kaifuku_Jutsushi_no_Yarinaoshi https://myanimelist.net/anime/3342/Mnemosyne__Mnemosyne_no_Musume-tachi The former is tagged "ecchi" atm, which feels wrong because of violent rape scenes. The second has no "explicit" tag despite being explicit AF. |
inimSep 20, 2021 3:01 AM
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inim said: nachomaxo1 said: I think our misunderstanding is that you imply two things on what I do which I actually do not.still wouldn't approve of such a made up "genre" that's just exists to say "sex and violence equal bad" shock value while can make problems of their own happen happen is not exploitation since it doesn't exploit literary no one since it's either acted or fictional if it was emotional manipulation then you would have some merit and not use an use extreme word like exploitation to say the whole "sex violence equal bad" bs also I like both oni tensei and alien of darkness because they are good action horror ovas and they don't exploit anyone since it's fictional and horror is meant to SCARE YOU AND SHOCK YOU ANYWAY an exploitation movie would be a ted bundy documentary with real footage of what he did not some acted or fictional violence that's just stupid imo First, I don't make up a new term, I just import a well established genre from live action movies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_film Second, I don't judge the genre as either good or bad. Actually I'm a fan and watched a lot of entries in both anime and live action. I'm not a holier-than-you SJW (neither from the left nor right) who wants to tell other adults what they have to enjoy. It's strictly a genre, not a judgement. Finally, for those of you not familiar with the 80s/90s OVA world, I just thought of two examples from more recent years I'd add into the category: https://myanimelist.net/anime/40750/Kaifuku_Jutsushi_no_Yarinaoshi https://myanimelist.net/anime/3342/Mnemosyne__Mnemosyne_no_Musume-tachi The former is tagged "ecchi" atm, which feels wrong because of violent rape scenes. The second has no "explicit" tag despite being explicit AF. my entire point is that it's an old made up "genre" made up by people that are not you and is used to make a shitty message about "how anything with violence content,sexual content or both is bad and differently is exploiting everyone despite it being acted or fictional" a lot of these of the old movies that are in this "genre" are just bad movies but because of reasons that are NOT related to violence content,sexual content or both so this "genre"'s existence is pointless the only thing that can count as exploitation is live action movies actors didn't consent to be in their sexual content or violent content aka something like a ted bundy documentary with real footage what he did which is definitely not acted you should definitely have the right to use sexual content and violence content without each time these moral guardians pull out shitty term and it's shitty reasonings |
nachomaxo1Sep 20, 2021 3:20 AM
Watame said: Still no dark mode. Heh. Would dark mode decide you to come back and write more reviews? P.S. There is a space before ";" in French. |
nachomaxo1 said: And tagging a genre does interfere exactly how with the right of creators and consumers to enjoy content with sexualized violence and other "difficult" themes? I had thought since Quentin Tarantino, Dario Argento, Russ Meyer, George A. Romero, Peter Jackson and Sergio Leone we had overcome the stupid stereotype that exploitation isn't a genre able to create 10/10s. Look no further than Satoshi Kon's "Perfect Blue" for an anime example, heavily inspired by Italian Giallo.my entire point is that it's an old made up "genre" made up by people that are not you and is used to make a shitty message [...]a lot of these of the old movies that are in this "genre" are just bad movies but because of reasons that are NOT related to violence content,sexual content or both so this "genre"'s existence is pointless [...] you should definitely have the right to use sexual content and violence content without each time these moral guardians pull out shitty term and it's shitty reasonings nachomaxo1 said: That genre exists, is called Snuff and is illegal in about all legislatures. Comparing this material with fictional genres is weird (to say the least) and probably not considered an option by many people. It's not helpful either, because you compare apples and oranges.the only thing that can count as exploitation is live action movies actors didn't consent to be in their sexual content or violent content aka something like a ted bundy documentary with real footage what he did which is definitely not acted The point is: MAL lacks a feature to tag shows "too hard" for ecchi and erotica, but "too soft" for hentai. Where the latter is a lame solution anyway because hentai has a wide spectrum and the "it has genitals thus hentai tag" policy is a bad one, imho, anyway. We already have Rx for that, and hentai is a wasted and mostly useless tag as it contains both "A Kite" and "Shoujo Raumune". One of which won prizes at art-house festivals, whereas the other is pretty objectively smut. |
inimSep 20, 2021 4:24 AM
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Kineta said: 🔜 Allow all users to vote on pre-defined themes by using the "Tags" section of their Anime/Manga Lists. 🔜 Modify current themes: rename, remove, and add missing ones (e.g. Isekai!). How will this work exactly. Will said votes be weighted equally, or will each user be assigned an undisclosed Mod Power value based on certain criteria like registration date and warnings? Also will this include "controversial" tags like lolicon, shotacon and incest? Because I'm pretty sure these will be abused nonstop. |
Hokage_Jason said: EnderVsqz626 said: well rethinking Avant Garde if it is strange since reading about it today I found this: "Avant-garde, or avant-garde in French, refers to people or works that are experimental or innovative, in particular with regard to the art, culture and politics .. " What does Avant-garde have to do with Dementia? Avant Garde has absolutely nothing to do with Dementia, they are completely unrelated words/genres. I think there's a misunderstanding of the definitions on the admin end lol. indeed friend, I read your message above where you said: "Avant Garde and Dementia are completely different and unrelated things. Avant Garde means experimental, out of the norm, etc. and Dementia covers a variety of psychological disorders?" so I investigated on my own and Avant-Garde is something about fashion and politics, etc. so I decided to leave in my TAGS Dementia. |
| A lot of shows that are BL were not tagged yaoi or s-ai (like Fairy Ranmaru and Yuri on Ice) so you will gave to re-recheck those too. A theme for "BL elements" would also be good for shows like Shinsekai yori. |
ReinhardVonMusel said: > Yaoi—now tagged "Boys Love" and "Erotica". What's next after this, are we calling manga cartoons or what? BL is the term used today even in Japan. Yaoi and s-ai were 00s holdovers, these words aren't used to describe BL anymore. |
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