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| Intense fight scene between kirei & kiritsugu 8/10 |
| Sometimes I regret reading these comments, because the complaints/knowledge about things that were cut put a damper on things I do remember that I thought it was awesome, though. The Kirei/Emiya fight is my favourite fight of the entire series!! I prefer their intricate skills and movements to the OP one-shots and sword clashes of the Servants. Fuckin time speed aw yeah, Emiya is the Matrix and Kirei will powder your ulna with a palm The Grail stuff was a little too vague but I love the concept. |
| So it turns out that possessing the Grail carries a heavy price which makes it evil. While the killing his wife and child seems repungant, I can understand that it was something that Kiritsu had to do in order to save the rest of humanity. Awesome final fight scene between Kirei and Kiritsu. And now to the final episode... |
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| Really enjoyed this episode, the cup kinda had an inception like feel, felt kinda clished. Enjoyed it nontheless. After Berserkser being so OP in previous episodes he just gets stabbed? |
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Flutterhigh said: Being so OP made him consume too much mama which killed Kariya's worms after his own mana supply was over, resulting to suddenly stopping before delivering the finishing blow.Really enjoyed this episode, the cup kinda had an inception like feel, felt kinda clished. Enjoyed it nontheless. After Berserkser being so OP in previous episodes he just gets stabbed? |
| That was painful.. even just watching Saber get hurt in any way. I cry :( |
| The Kiritsugu vs Kirei fight is definitely the spotlight of this episode. The animation made it worh watching multiple times. |
| At this point Kiritsugu is truly a foolish and pathetic man.. |
SithNoKami said: Because he didnt kill everyone?At this point Kiritsugu is truly a foolish and pathetic man. |
ssjokg said: SithNoKami said: Because he didnt kill everyone?At this point Kiritsugu is truly a foolish and pathetic man. Because he thought he could. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: Because he didnt kill everyone? Because he thought he could. For all we know he could have if he had just gone along with the Grail. I mean maybe it's not an omnipotent wish-granting artifact, but I'd rather not test that out by wishing for "world peace" |
Fai said: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.ssjokg said: Because he didnt kill everyone? Because he thought he could. |
ssjokg said: Fai said: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.Because he thought he could. The way Grail would accomplish his wish via his ideal, pretty much showcased where his path and ideal leads. Kerry thought he could bear whatever fallout and price he has to pay for his goal. That he can just "stuff" his own emotions aside to do what's necessary always. EP11 and 12 showcases the price for that. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The way Grail would accomplish his wish via his ideal, pretty much showcased where his path and ideal leads. Kerry thought he could bear whatever fallout and price he has to pay for his goal. That he can just "stuff" his own emotions aside to do what's necessary always. EP11 and 12 showcases the price for that. Kerry didnt think that the price would humanity's annihilation the same thing he tries to stop. |
ssjokg said: Fai said: The way Grail would accomplish his wish via his ideal, pretty much showcased where his path and ideal leads. Kerry thought he could bear whatever fallout and price he has to pay for his goal. That he can just "stuff" his own emotions aside to do what's necessary always. EP11 and 12 showcases the price for that. Kerry didnt think that the price would humanity's annihilation the same thing he tries to stop. Which is why he is an idiot, since that's the most obvious outcome of his "ideal" - "many" and "Few" are not definitive sizes. And if you resign towards saving the world by sacrificing others, there will be a point in time when "Many" will be as big as previous "Few" Do you have enough resolve, hero of justice? |
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| You aren't supposed to think of such an outcome when you are promised an omnipotent wish granting magical tool. |
ssjokg said: You aren't supposed to think of such an outcome when you are promised an omnipotent wish granting magical tool. Yes. When you are promised that, you run the fuck away. |
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Fai said: ssjokg said: You aren't supposed to think of such an outcome when you are promised an omnipotent wish granting magical tool. Yes. When you are promised that, you run the fuck away. You knowing what Kiritsugu(And the rest) doesnt know about it really helps in saying that. |
ssjokg said: Fai said: Yes. When you are promised that, you run the fuck away. You knowing what Kiritsugu(And the rest) doesnt know about it really helps in saying that. Its common sense, actually. Even Shirou reasons that way before finding out the nature of grail - something that can do things it is described to be able to, something that requires the things it requires to function, can't be good. The world has gazillion legends about Genies/Jinn, as well as nature of wish-fulfillment. Its inscribed into human cosciousness. "Be careful what you wish for". The only thing humans are meant to achieve are the things they can do with their own hands and minds. Relying on something else for that is foolish in itself. Fate franchise teaches us that the only way we can grant our wishes is via actions we do and choices we make, not via magical cup of evil. |
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Fai said: Yeah that is the problem.Fate franchise teaches us that the only way we can grant our wishes is via actions we do and choices we make, not via magical cup of evil. They dont know its nature. |
| That sequence with Kiritsugu and Angra Mainyu? was fucking crazy, damn. I feel bad for Kerry, he was expecting the holy grail to provide grant his wish with no strings attached, but in the end he would have had to pay a huge price for his own happiness and peace. Is that what the grail was trying to say to Kiritsugu? I'm just trying to make sure I got that right here, since with that boat dilema and what happened near the end with his family in that dream-ish sequence, it seems like he was saying he'd have to kill everyone else in the world in order for he himself to truely experience happiness and peace..hm Or at the very least a shitload of people would be sacrificied for the peace and happiness of very few.. well that was a great episode non-the less. Strangely enough upon rewatching the series, I remember almost everything from Fate/Zero season 1 , but forgot many things from season 2 or memory was hazy about them, maybe I was distracted while originally watching them .. Looking forward the last episode. |
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midnightblade said: His method to "save the world" is to kill the few to save the many, the Grail will keep doing that until everyone is dead.Is that what the grail was trying to say to Kiritsugu? I'm just trying to make sure I got that right here, since with that boat dilema and what happened near the end with his family in that dream-ish sequence, it seems like he was saying he'd have to kill everyone else in the world in order for he himself to truely experience happiness and peace..hm Or at the very least a shitload of people would be sacrificied for the peace and happiness of very few.. |
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| Great fight. As I remember, things get worse as we get closer to the end though. Such a shame. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| Amazing fight scenes! So Kiritsugu used both of his last command seals... I bet that will be the reason of his death. |
| Hm. So in the end, Berserker was reduced to nothing pretty easily (and with death, Kariya died also), what a shame. I didn't like that developement, it felt like total meh, waste of character, and his/Saber relationship had no impact to me. Also, this and previous episode felt very bad in terms of execution. Music was badly recycled and inserted and many scenes lacked proper planning, either they were running out of budget or out of time (maybe both, but that disappointment, so near to the end). I also didn't like how they portraited "inside" of the Grail as Kiritsugu's own monologue, effectively stopping the pace for almost entire episode (Urobutcher did the same in the last Madoka movie and it was also counterproductive). Not to mention they did really bad job to portray those life comparisons of his his decision making in more meaningful way and it simply didn't work for me. Angra Mainyu mentions and manifestations were also pretty poor. As matter of that, the last scene where he ordered Saber to destroy the Grail also lacked its impact because the reason why he did that was communicated pretty poorly. It can do with the fact that the picture of Kiritsugu I got from novels is a lot different than I got from this adaptation. He sure isn't likeable character and that's fine but contrary to how well Kirei was portrayed I couldn't find any interesting part of him. He is just simple archetype running forward, never straying from his "logical" road. It's shame but those scenes only described in novels had like ten-times bigger impact than this adaptation. And I wouldn't say that my expectations of those scenes were too high. |
Mich666 said: Hm. So in the end, Berserker was reduced to nothing pretty easily (and with death, Kariya died also), what a shame. I didn't like that developement, it felt like total meh, waste of character, and his/Saber relationship had no impact to me. The fuck are you talking about? Berserker pretty much decimated Saber and only got defeated because Kariya ran out of mana. I also didn't like how they portraited "inside" of the Grail as Kiritsugu's own monologue, effectively stopping the pace for almost entire episode (Urobutcher did the same in the last Madoka movie and it was also counterproductive). Not to mention they did really bad job to portray those life comparisons of his his decision making in more meaningful way and it simply didn't work for me. Angra Mainyu mentions and manifestations were also pretty poor. Well, Nasu disagrees with your "opinion" here. Stopping the pace for monologues is kind of Nasuverse trademark. Just because DEEN_FSN butchered itself into break-neck pace bullshit, does not mean that proper adaptations will too. As matter of that, the last scene where he ordered Saber to destroy the Grail also lacked its impact because the reason why he did that was communicated pretty poorly. That's because its proper adaptation of Fate/Zero and Fate/Zero is expected to be viewed WITH the knowledge of the Visual Novel. It can do with the fact that the picture of Kiritsugu I got from novels is a lot different than I got from this adaptation. He sure isn't likeable character and that's fine but contrary to how well Kirei was portrayed I couldn't find any interesting part of him. He is just simple archetype running forward, never straying from his "logical" road. Well that comes from not paying attention since this adaptation portrayed it quite well. Kerry is not supposed to be likeable or humane or emotional. He is everything Shirou would despise |
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| That was sad and ultimately heartbreaking. Everything Kiritsugu did to obtain the grail was for nothing. Shame that he didn't talk with Saber much and she didn't understand that what she wished for would mean nothing as well because the grail would "save" her country in the way Saber could comprehend, which means it would pretty much just repeat everything she did while she was alive. |
Tengoku_no_hakai said: No it would do nothing and just(final ep spoiler)That was sad and ultimately heartbreaking. Everything Kiritsugu did to obtain the grail was for nothing. Shame that he didn't talk with Saber much and she didn't understand that what she wished for would mean nothing as well because the grail would "save" her country in the way Saber could comprehend, which means it would pretty much just repeat everything she did while she was alive. |
| Wow... no words for this. Just epic. One of the best episodes yet, and that is saying a lot. Everything about this episode was just spine chillingly perfect. Did the BD release correct the issues everyone is complaining about on the front page? I'm watching the BD version and didn't notice anything ridiculous, but I'm also not a novel reader... Well, the episode did not make it crystal clear that the only reason Lancelot got taken down was because Kariya ran out of mana, I guess. What a pitiful end for Kariya in any case. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| No, but they did add in some of the scenes that should have been in the Saber-Lancelot fight here into the next episode....for some reason. |
| Intense fight scene, when kiritsugu use his remaining command seal to saber to destroy the grail using EXCALIBUR!! |
| The Kiritsugu and Holy Grail scenes were brilliant |
| kiritsugu should have finished the job. all those years as an assassin yet he still didn't learn the pivotal rule. Double Tap is a must. the fight between the two was very exciting though, even if it was interrupted before its end. and Kiritsugu using his last two spells for a double compulsion on Saber to destroy the grail was one odd way to finish this war. I'm pretty sure the narrator of the next episode's preview was Shiro. farewell zero, you were fun. |
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R2 said: Double Tap with a gun that takes one round?kiritsugu should have finished the job. all those years as an assassin yet he still didn't learn the pivotal rule. Double Tap is a must. the fight between the two was very exciting though, even if it was interrupted before its end. and Kiritsugu using his last two spells for a double compulsion on Saber to destroy the grail was one odd way to finish this war. I'm pretty sure the narrator of the next episode's preview was Shiro. farewell zero, you were fun. |
| he wasn't in a hurry. could have reloaded. and it doesn't matter anyway, since he did die. |
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R2 said: Because obviously a shot through the heart isnt enough for humans huh?he wasn't in a hurry. could have reloaded. and it doesn't matter anyway, since he did die. |
| Along with being my favourite episode of the series, this was also the most confusing. I re-watched a few scenes in order to grasp the concept and try to form links with my knowledge of previous episodes (it's a hard task considering it's 4.31 am right now and I haven't watched the other Fate/ series). So, in the end, the Holy Grail was a sham all along? In fact, the Holy Grail was entombed within Irisviel. She turned into a... goblet, which was a supposed reincarnation of the Grail? The Grail can only grant wishes based on the knowledge of the winner about the wish's achievement, so it could grant Kiritsugu what he wanted only in such a way that Kiritsugu will eventually sacrifice every thing in the world, including his family? And who the hell is Angra Mainyu? It was so satisfying to hear that gunshot which knocked the last breath from Kirei's body. Likewise, it was just as heartbreaking to see Kariya finally succumb to his impending death. I have mixed feelings about Berserker, but he was an undeniably strong Servant. And wtf Archer. Wedding ceremony? When will you die, you son of a bitch? Kiritsugu is such an extreme character, though. He is willing to take the life of his wife and child for the sake of a majority? Or was he simply thwarting the Grail's attempts in that scene? It's all so sad. Edit: And why would he waste two command spells on the same command? Saber would've destroyed the Grail on the first command spell. Unless Kiritsugu wanted to be rid of being Master... |
k0k0Mar 10, 2015 5:09 PM
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| Pretty much everything to do with the grail is explained in FSN, mostly explained in Heaven's Feel. At the end he was refusing the grail, both the wife and child were just an image. And why would he waste two command spells on the same command? Saber would've destroyed the Grail on the first command spell. Unless Kiritsugu wanted to be rid of being Master... She was resisting and he didn't have time to mess around. Using all the command doesn't stop you from being a master, it just means the servant can do what they want after that. |
nocorrasMar 10, 2015 5:31 PM
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nocorras said: Pretty much everything to do with the grail is explained in FSN, mostly explained in Heaven's Feel. At the end he was refusing the grail, both the wife and child were just an image. She was resisting and he didn't have time to mess around. Using all the command doesn't stop you from being a master, it just means the servant can do what they want after that. In the original FSN or the UBW? And yes, that makes some sense now. Thanks, nocorras! |
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k0k0 said: nocorras said: Pretty much everything to do with the grail is explained in FSN, mostly explained in Heaven's Feel. At the end he was refusing the grail, both the wife and child were just an image. She was resisting and he didn't have time to mess around. Using all the command doesn't stop you from being a master, it just means the servant can do what they want after that. In the original FSN or the UBW? And yes, that makes some sense now. Thanks, nocorras! Heaven's Feel explains pretty much everything about the end of Zero. So yeah... long wait unless you pick up the VN. There might be a small tid bit in 2006 series or UBW but nothing major. I know of at least one thing that should stand out when mentioned in UBW. |
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| Grail is not "entombed" in Irisviel - Irisviel IS the vessel. That is the role of Einzbern family. They seek to replicate something they did thousand years ago, so they keep creating clones in form of artificial humans like Irisviel, meant to become a grail vessel. Most of explanation on that matter in UBW and HF routes. Grail is not a sham. Fuyuki Grail is pretty much the only grail system in the world that can grant wishes. Or could, before things went wrong. It STILL grants wishes but in its own ways. Yet again, most of explanation in FSN. Grail, working or not, can only grant wishes in the ways that the one wishing knows how - in Kerry's case it would be through "Sacrifice few to save many". A wish for peace in this case would eventually end with everyone but Kiritsugu dead, as grial would keep killing few to save many to preserve peace. Thus Kerry's wish was impossible no matter what. Kiritsugu was forced to realize where his wish would lead and had to "sacrifice few " to prevent it from happening. Now all that is left is for him to learn the PRICE of the said few. It was not "REAL" Irisviel or Illya. It was representation of their "records". The real Iris is dead. So for Iris, it was close enough to original to be true. Angra, as well as why grail is the way it is now, is slowly explained through all three routes. Saber's magic resistance allows her to resist even command spells to a degree. Kerry had no time so he used two to negate that. Majority of the FSN plot itself is spoiled by Zero already though. Also when someone talks about FSN, they generally are NOT speaking about the 2006 version which is a godawful anime original storyline that tried to fuse bits and pieces of all three routes into one and fell flat on its face. |
AhenshihaelMar 10, 2015 6:25 PM
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| Right. Many doubts cleared there (or stalled from intolerant curiosity). I've been reading up on the watch orders and the several guide threads scattered around here and they all seem to tell me that FS/N will answer all the questions. It's a shame I'll have to wait for the second season as well as the HF movies. Thank you for all that, CookingPriest. I know I've been testing your patience with my questions. |
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| Episode showing an unexpected action immediately, excellent quality and beauty, but unfortunately this does not last long parentheses and begins a far more thoughtful and cryptic at first glance. The twists are not lacking, and make the story very dramatic; drawings and animations, a great pleasure to behold. I can not wait to see the last episode to start the new season of Fate SN: UBW. |
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| Huh? I mean... what? I don't get it. I don't know what else to write, let's hope the last episode clarifies things. |
| Come to think of it, Kiritsugu killing Illya/Iri in the vision was a foreshadowing to his decision to destroy the grail, considering Iri is the vessel of it. It's not to say I didn't follow what was happening before, but the nature of the grail and Kiritsugu's wish/decision made far more sense now that I've seen the recent F/SN. Weighing the world's salvation to being with his family was brutal. The part where it said that Kiritsugu could only save the world in the way he knew how was the most profound. His wish, the miracle he sought, could not be performed beyond human understanding, much less his own. |
ZekkenshinJul 6, 2015 6:38 AM
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| Basically this entire series: GG—NO RE |
| Excellent Episode , loved it . |
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