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Poll: Fate/Zero 2nd Season Episode 3 Discussion


#1
Apr 21, 2012 9:11 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Another amazing episode! I am very happy to see Kayneth. I was rooting for him a lot in S1 and missed him somewhat. It’s those faces he had during his fight with Emiya and TBH I really though the guy was plain CHEAP ASS the way he ended his fight with Kayneth last season. Revenge would be nice.

The joy of seeing Kayneth be happy in the following,

OH THE JOY! I was happy to see his old self there even for a little. While in the spoiler
his other faces were refreshing to see.


What Maiya did to Kayneth's wife with the hand is SICK! Cut out a arm? The spoiler
clearly shows all that. It was sick really. Poor her, how the fuck did it amend to such a result is beyond me despite the Chaotic situation at that time. WTF really happened in that part? It looked to go so fast by. Did they take out some parts from that segment for gore or shit like that? That was still sick shit among other shits in this series of being sick such as was with Caster. So how sick is Maiya exactly? As sick as trained guerillas in her ways?

The fight in the following,

Starts! It’s HOT! Once gain the heat of excitement of fighting is back once again. And I will leave it as I LIVE FOR THIS! I am sure I am not the only one and I am not the only that can truly feel alive and proud of how amazing it has been for this series with everyone. Truly even those last words cannot describe of how amazing and shocking was this episode itself. Particularly in regards to WTF Maiya did to Kayneth’s wife.

BTW I managed to do a pic dumb and Image Stitches in my BLOG:
http://ecchiking99.blogspot.ca/2012/04/pic-test.html
For anyone wanting them. They are HD 720p and some parts of my BLOG are NSFW so don’t go elsewhere than this post.

End and beginning Kayneth/Lancer pics in the spoiler
Modified by Yumekichi11, Apr 22, 2012 12:15 AM

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#2
Apr 21, 2012 9:15 AM
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It finally dawned on me why Saber is such a central character in this series (beside her significant role in the successor of this anime Fate/Stay Night, of course). Every prominent servant has a different attitude towards her, once again shown in this episode. Rider thinks of her as an foolish girl who has been mislead by her dreams, someone he can only look down on, while this apparent foolishness and the tragic of Saber's nature makes her appealing to Archer in the first place. Lancer seems to be only one who shares her ideals. Caster, by perceiving her as Joanne, painted her as a pure and sacred woman. Berserker obviously has yet another point of view as one can see by his contempt towards Saber.

There's no other servants the viewer gets a more differenciated and multilayered image from than Saber and she is the one that causes the other servant to become vocal about their own guide lines and principles. In this way she becomes the character everything revolves around by default, though I have no doubts it was intentional since the writer probably realized how controversial her personality and the confict potential it bears.
Modified by Eudaimonia, Apr 21, 2012 9:31 AM
 
#3
Apr 21, 2012 9:20 AM
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Another bloody amazing episode.



Meh, Kayneth is still alive and kicking. That damn bastard <_<



Dat rematch between Lancer/Saber ^_^








A lot of deaths this episode but bloody good overall.

Modified by Stark700, Apr 21, 2012 10:46 AM
 
#4
Apr 21, 2012 9:24 AM

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Being Lancer is suffering.
Ok™
 
#5
Apr 21, 2012 9:25 AM
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Kayneth's wife? I thought it's his fiance.

So sad to see Lancer's death by Kiritsugu's plan. How I wanted to see how this serious battle against Saber and him end!
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#6
Apr 21, 2012 9:27 AM

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tsubasalover said:
Kayneth's wife? I thought it's his fiancée.
I just think of her like that cause they are about to be together or were since the beginning, hence couple in my mind. But yes only fiancée she is but still means they get married anyway.

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#7
Apr 21, 2012 9:30 AM
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epic ep. fucked up lancer moment :( did like him cursing the world as he died. saber mad. kiritsugu ftl?
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#8
Apr 21, 2012 9:30 AM

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A part of me loved this episode, another part of me hated what Kiritsugu did to Kayneth, Sola and Lancer.

Poor Lancer-kun, he was treated like scum, he was betrayed by his master and in the end he couldn't even finish the fight he promised to Saber. It was sad seeing him go that way.

And then Kiritsugu making Maiya kill Kayneth and Sola. Kiritsugu really is a monster who will do anything for get his hands on the grail. I bet if Saber wasn't bound by a contract she wouldn't have minded to kill Kiritsugu right away.
 
#9
Apr 21, 2012 9:48 AM

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And this is why Kiritsugu is my favorite character in Fate/Zero.
Though being Lancer and Kayneth sure is suffering.
Amazing episode once again, though it seems they left out some more parts in here, specifically Kirei's part. For the BD again or will it just be mentioned in passing next episode? That part is kind of needed for Kirei's development. Oh well.
And my god, the preview for the next episode. That time already? That time already.
Seems like it's correct that by episode 17, everything will change.
Looking forward to the next episode.

inb4 Kiritsugu fans vs Kayneth fans
 
Apr 21, 2012 9:49 AM

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Awesome episode, too fucking exhausted to say anymore, but it really was good. Saber blows at arguing, as to why, it's in the signature.
Modified by mdz, Apr 21, 2012 10:25 PM
 
Apr 21, 2012 9:50 AM

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Ahhh a great episode. Great adaptation to the events of the novel....well with one exception. They skipped the part where Kirei discovers his father's corpse in the chapel and "mourns" over it. Hopefully they will do it either in the next episode or an uncut re-run. I mean, that was an extremely powerful scene and to just skip over it just completely glosses over a part of Kirei's character development.

On another note, Kiritsugu is cold as hell. I've always seen him as more on an "ends justify the means" type of person. All of his actions can be seen as cold and heartless but in the end he's just the type that will do whatever is possible to reach his goal...which bites back at him in the end.

On the topic of Kayneth, Sola and Lancer. Death with no form of salvation for any of them. Urobuchi, you magnificent bastard. :3 But that was definitely cruel for each of them. Sola died never knowing what happened. Lancer, the only one whose ideals were similar to Saber, dies cursing everyone around him. Well, it was painful for him to be betrayed by his lord a second time and all of the actions that took place around him go completely against his ideals. Kayneth....well he was kinda crazy but I still can't help but feel that he didn't deserve this much.

There seems to be a connecting theme throughout this anime/novel. There is no such thing as true salvation or catharsis (that's the word I was looking for :3). That and death is a bitch. :p The first one plays throughout with only a few exceptions. Caster (debatable),
{Light Novel Spoilers. Do not read if you do not want to be spoiled. :3}
Modified by Ashen_Miko, Apr 21, 2012 9:57 AM
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All hail the adorable chess master!
 
Apr 21, 2012 9:56 AM

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Another great episode.

belatkuro said:

Amazing episode once again, though it seems they left out some more parts in here, specifically Kirei's part. For the BD again or will it just be mentioned in passing next episode? That part is kind of needed for Kirei's development. Oh well.
And my god, the preview for the next episode. That time already? That time already.

Judging by the preview, it seems like they've decided to shuffle all of the Kirei scenes, up until the beginning of Volume 4, into one episode. That scene would be impossible not to include due to its direct relevance to a major plot point.
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Apr 21, 2012 9:58 AM

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I don't know about the people but does anyone thinking a deep, disgusting cruel painful and agonizing death for Maiya for what she did this episode? It's so lingering me now more than ever. RAGE! It was inevitable but now I just want some really bad shit to happen to Maiya. Am I the only one?

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Apr 21, 2012 9:59 AM

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Lancer.. :/ That was just sad. Why does my favorite character always have to die in these things. I knew he was going to die.. didn't think it would be so brutal..
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:00 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
I don't know about the people but does anyone thinking a deep, disgusting cruel painful and agonizing death for Maiya for what she did this episode? It's so lingering me now more than ever. RAGE! It was inevitable but now I just want some really bad shit to happen to Maiya. Am I the only one?

My disappointment isn't directed to Maiya, instead, it is directed to Kiritsugu. For me Maiya seems to be a woman who lacks any kind of free will and only does what Kiritsugu orders. I doubt Maiya would have come with such a plan like that.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:04 AM
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Linkark07 said:
Yumekichi11 said:
I don't know about the people but does anyone thinking a deep, disgusting cruel painful and agonizing death for Maiya for what she did this episode? It's so lingering me now more than ever. RAGE! It was inevitable but now I just want some really bad shit to happen to Maiya. Am I the only one?

My disappointment isn't directed to Maiya, instead, it is directed to Kiritsugu. For me Maiya seems to be a woman who lacks any kind of free will and only does what Kiritsugu orders. I doubt Maiya would have come with such a plan like that.

This. I do think that she did ir because it was Kiritsugu's order.
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Apr 21, 2012 10:11 AM

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This was very deep. Really hated how Lancer went out, but I suppose it had to be done. :'(
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:12 AM

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LunarMoon said:
Another great episode.

belatkuro said:

Amazing episode once again, though it seems they left out some more parts in here, specifically Kirei's part. For the BD again or will it just be mentioned in passing next episode? That part is kind of needed for Kirei's development. Oh well.
And my god, the preview for the next episode. That time already? That time already.

Judging by the preview, it seems like they've decided to shuffle all of the Kirei scenes, up until the beginning of Volume 4, into one episode. That scene would be impossible not to include due to its direct relevance to a major plot point.
I believe the next episode is still under volume 3.
Given the amount of happenings that will transpire next episode, I don't think they will be able to fit the missing part in this episode fully in the next episode and will just be mentioned by Tokiomi since it's very relevant for later. But well, I was expecting it here. I guess time constraints is the reason and will just be in the BD like the one in episode 11.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:13 AM
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In regard to the issue of honour I think it can be safely said that Saber and Kiritsugu represent two different approaches how to bring salvation to humanity. While Saber got criticized a lot for her idealistic views by participants of the war and audience alike, this episode's events most likely casted a cloud about Kiritsugu, who was commended for his pragmatic measures previously, as the cruelty of his ways in order to achieve his goals is directly shown to the viewer this time.

Even though it seems like the intention of the writer is to deprive values like honour of its worth, the exact opposite way of thinking depicted by Kiritsugu gets second-guessed as well. While noble and honorable behaviour gets called illusionary and foolish (I think it goes without saying that most of the viewers share this attitude as most agreed with Rider and were annoyed by Saber's and Lancer's persistence to follow honorable ideals during their fights) one has to wonder if it's really commendable to live in a world where ruthlessness and cold pragmatics prevail (though I suppose this is the case in many places).
Modified by Eudaimonia, Apr 21, 2012 10:26 AM
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:23 AM

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belatkuro said:
]I believe the next episode is still under volume 3.
Given the amount of happenings that will transpire next episode, I don't think they will be able to fit the missing part in this episode fully in the next episode and will just be mentioned by Tokiomi since it's very relevant for later. But well, I was expecting it here. I guess time constraints is the reason and will just be in the BD like the one in episode 11.


They pretty much need to include that scene, because...

(Light Novel Spoiler - Do Not Read Unless You've Read All of Fate Zero)
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Change, change the form of man. Free the might from fleshy mire. Boil the blood in heart of fire. Gone, gone the form of man. Rise the demon, Etrigan!
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:27 AM

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Lancer did not deserve this.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:30 AM

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LunarMoon said:
belatkuro said:
]I believe the next episode is still under volume 3.
Given the amount of happenings that will transpire next episode, I don't think they will be able to fit the missing part in this episode fully in the next episode and will just be mentioned by Tokiomi since it's very relevant for later. But well, I was expecting it here. I guess time constraints is the reason and will just be in the BD like the one in episode 11.


They pretty much need to include that scene, because...

(Light Novel Spoiler - Do Not Read Unless You've Read All of Fate Zero)
Yeah I know about that. But I'm guessing (LN spoiler)
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:38 AM

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Lancer's end was pretty dramatic. Emiya you are such a bastard.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:44 AM
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Zhou said:
Lancer did not deserve this.


Agreed.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:50 AM

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Lancer. That's just too painful to watch. I even felt bad for Kayneth and Sola. :(

The interesting part of the episode was the exposition of Kiritsugu's ideals that conflicts that with Saber.

There is no hope on a battlefield. There is nothing but unspeakable despair. Just a crime we call victory, paid for by the pain of the defeated. But humanity has never recognized this truth. And the reason is that, in every era, a dazzling hero has blinded with their legends, and kept them from seeing the evil of bloodshed. True human nature has not advanced a step beyond the Stone Age!


Such a great episode that bring such impact.
Modified by StormViruz, Apr 21, 2012 11:17 AM
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:55 AM

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OMG, Lancer :< It was sad to see him die like that, betrayed by his master.

Also, while I hated Kayneth, I did feel kind of bad for him as he died the way he did. Kiritsugu is REALLY hardcore, eh? No wonder Saber in FSN once said to Shirou that the Kiritsugu she knew was a horrible man.

Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol.
 
Apr 21, 2012 10:59 AM
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One thing to say: Kiritsugu is a JERK.
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:03 AM

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Epic episode, Kiritsugu's badassery level went through the roof.
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:09 AM

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Poor Sola...



...and poor Lancer....
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:12 AM
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"A plague on both your houses!"

That's what I thought while watching. Not sure why it never occurred to me until now. Also, I don't remember Saber mercy killing Kayneth in the novel, so that came as a bit of a surprise.
Modified by Shocked, Apr 21, 2012 12:42 PM
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:17 AM
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The eyes of Sauron lol.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
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Apr 21, 2012 11:28 AM
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When Archibald signed the contract I was like "Hmm he won't kill him, but it says nothing about other people...", for a second i thought that he won't kill them for real. Poor Lancer for being accused of betrayal and then being betrayed himself. I couldn't help but smile when Archibald got shot down or when Maya cut off his fiancé's arm.
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:33 AM

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Kanyeth shouldn't have signed the contract to become a magical girl
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:40 AM

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HOLY FUCKING MOTHER LORD PIECE OF MOTHER HOLY SHIT.

My god, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, I just want to put it out there that I agree with both Kiritsugu and Saber's opposite opinions. They are both true, in a sense. I hated Kiritsugu when he did that to Lancer but then hearing his opinions it made me think a lot more.

I almost feel sick how I am happy that Kayneth and Sola died. I hated them both, so yeah. But I loved Lancer... Man, the way he went out was fucking sad. His death was made extremely well though. Irisviel collapsing at the end... Oh god. Oh god. I hope nothing bad happens.

And yup, I hate Maiya too.
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:45 AM

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My god. To see Lancer receiving such an unworthy end is painful. He had only one wish left in the war he swore to fight in and even that was crushed and thrown away. Having a rare second chance in life to make thing right and then meet the same end that was meet in his previous life, that must be truly suffering.


On the other hand, I personally thought the conflict between Kiritsugu and saber was well done. It showed how people from different ages can conflict with each other, by showing the difference of opinions between a medival knight and a modern freelancer.


Now let's wait and see what type of "OMGWTF" moment they have in store for us next time.

P.S We have recived five deaths in three episodes. Does anyone think we will receive a sixth one next time? (The judge does not count, since we don't know if we will see his final moments in episode four. He might only be dying as far as we know. If not, then who will be our seventh victim?)
 
Apr 21, 2012 11:57 AM
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haha awesome emiya, cheat to win. i love his explanation and how he belittles saber's ideals. knight's honor? bleh, there is no honor in killing. battlefield is hell itself. kill at all cost or at any way otherwise be killed
"....i am the villain in this story"
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:01 PM

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Kiritsugu continues his "don't give a shit" attitude which is why he one of my favs in F/Z.
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:09 PM
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http://animuthoughts.blogspot.com/2012/04/fate-zero-s2-episode-3-episode-16.html
^pics
As much as I thought Lancer's death was cruel, Lancer was rather naive, believing people would seriously follow moral codes when there's promise of absolute power.

And maaan, Kiritsugu spit on Kayneth's pride, then curb-stomped it, then shit on the remains. He took away his mana, took away his hopes and dreams (Lancer's suicide), and then disallowed Kayneth the death he wanted. Had Saber not intervened in disgust, Kayneth would've had an even more painful death. :O. Man Kiritsugu too good.

Uryuu fell due to his hedonism, Kayneth due to his pride, and judging from the PV,
Modified by purasle, Apr 21, 2012 12:29 PM
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:21 PM

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i really like how they animated lancers death
his eyes filled with hatred
and body crumbling with corruption instead of how normally heroic spirits disappear (sparkly bright specks of light)
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:37 PM

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PikachuXD said:

As much as I thought Lancer's death was cruel, Lancer was rather naive, believing people would seriously follow moral codes when there's promise of absolute power.


Can't blame him for it. Believing that people would follow moral codes is kind of irrelevant to his downfall. Even if people were given the promise of absolute power, there are many people who would still follow moral codes. Lancer wouldn’t have it any other way, since he finds peace of heart from it. To him, fighting unfair is unthinkable to him, which is the reason why he was glad to meet a proud opponent like Saber, who desire the grail while still following moral codes.

Besides, mages in general have their pride to face another mage in 1-vs-1 combat, which are the basics for most mages. Kiritsugu is an irregular to the war due to his dishonorable means. So Lancer's downfall was because of the fate that let Kiritsugu be Saber's master.
Modified by SagaraYuzuru, Apr 21, 2012 12:41 PM
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:39 PM

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It was a very well done dialogue but in the end it breaks down to idealism vs realism, as pessimistic as Kiritsugu's words are i have to agree with them; you shouldn't justify death by saying it was honorable or clean; there is no glory in murder; whether for country or self, pride or hatred; the end result is the same and its always covered in blood.

Lancer had a harsh way to die; one he didn't deserve but people should understand that the end result for that would have been the same also; Lancer would have died regardless or he would have won; all Kiritsugu did was change how it got there; after all Saber's "glorious" victory that she wanted ended with Lancer dying; its just a matter of skewed idealism which doesn't fit in the modern world if it ever did. Kiritsugu takes a more realistic stance at approaching the problem; becoming the greater evil to destroy evil; instead of the other stance of being slowly and eventually consumed by evil; as it exists everywhere; Saber's idealistic approach is the exact reason she had regret and became a Heroic Spirit. Nothing good comes out of clouding the truth with idealism alone. Reality is hard, Saber should have accepted that a long time ago.
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:58 PM

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Stark700 said:
Zhou said:
Lancer did not deserve this.


Agreed.


I know.



This is why I can't stand Kiritsugu. I wish we could see Kotomine crying for his dad. I don't want them to skip that, since he (and Waver) are the two characters who actually get character development in this series.

Is it me or the art was pretty bad this episode?
 
Apr 21, 2012 12:59 PM

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InfiniteDestiny said:
It was a very well done dialogue but in the end it breaks down to idealism vs realism, as pessimistic as Kiritsugu's words are i have to agree with them; you shouldn't justify death by saying it was honorable or clean; there is no glory in murder; whether for country or self, pride or hatred; the end result is the same and its always covered in blood.

Lancer had a harsh way to die; one he didn't deserve but people should understand that the end result for that would have been the same also; Lancer would have died regardless or he would have won; all Kiritsugu did was change how it got there; after all Saber's "glorious" victory that she wanted ended with Lancer dying; its just a matter of skewed idealism which doesn't fit in the modern world if it ever did. Kiritsugu takes a more realistic stance at approaching the problem; becoming the greater evil to destroy evil; instead of the other stance of being slowly and eventually consumed by evil; as it exists everywhere; Saber's idealistic approach is the exact reason she had regret and became a Heroic Spirit. Nothing good comes out of clouding the truth with idealism alone. Reality is hard, Saber should have accepted that a long time ago.

True, but the idealism that Saber possesses came from a time where honor and glory were like her own flesh and blood. The reality of the modern age did not exist back then and Saber's idealistic views were the reality of the middle ages. The reality that she has to accept is a reality she has never known in her life.

Also, Lancer's fate might not have changed if Kiritsugu never interfered, but at least he would die completely satisfied and having the ability to accept his fate.
 
Apr 21, 2012 1:19 PM

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gf lancer...never had a chance.

Judging from the preview...looks like its that time already.
 
Apr 21, 2012 1:40 PM

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Aw, really hoping the Kirei scene is at least briefly in the beginning of the next episode, he's arguably the most important character in Fate/Zero. (Not saying he's the main character, though, just one of them). I doubt it will be though, since the light novels had it happening after he left Kariya at the Matou house. Bah, another important scene to wait for in the BDs.

Other than that, about what I expected, except the light novels had Saber behead Kayneth, but that's a minor detail that doesn't matter. With Lancer gone, all the "minor" heroes are out and now we're down to the big four. As for the next episode, I'm kinda worried that more Archer/Kirei stuff will be cut, I hope that's not the case, since it's pretty damn important this time. Given the preview and the name of the next episode though, even those who have only seen/read Fate/Stay Night should know what's going to happen next.
Modified by TheRealBoyd, Apr 22, 2012 1:26 PM
 
Apr 21, 2012 1:45 PM

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Kiritsugu owning up, sad to see Lancer leaving with a show like that, but also makes me feel sad on Saber's view of what war is. Kiritsugus right, its hell and nothing short and I'll back him to try and stop the cycle with whatever means necessary.
seems like 3 champs no, whos next on the cutting block ?
 
Apr 21, 2012 1:49 PM

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Although Kayneth and Sola deserve the bullcrap that was coming to them (one being a sadistic bastard the other being a sadistic whore), Lancer didn't. It's getting pretty intense.
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Apr 21, 2012 1:52 PM

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Finally, Lancer's gone. Most irritating character ever tbh. And if you pair him up with Saber you get an endless dialogue about honor and chivalry. Couldn't stand another episode of this.
On the other hand, Kiritsugu is getting better. I really didn't like him at the beginning of the series, but the fact that he disagrees with Saber makes him a lot more enjoyable. Maiya is kind of getting on my nerves though, I hate how she's only obeying a man's orders and at the same time she's portrayed as a strong character.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:09 PM

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Apparently the best way to win a magical war is with fire guns.... and legal vacuumes?

Mixed bag ep.
 
Apr 21, 2012 2:43 PM

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Tragedy Tragedy Tragedy.
It was painful to watch.
Lancer, he was once's again betrayed.
It was just pitiful sight....
R.I.P Sola-Ui, Kayneth, and finally Lancer.
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