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Maneki-Mew said: Shocked said: As a traveler, you don't have to adhere by any rule set in that particular country. It's more of good manners, being respectful, and not accidentally getting yourself killed by violating a country's laws, if evident by the first episode. Others in the thread, myself included, have opinions on Kino's actions in this story, the portrayal of the country, and the story itself, but I'd recommend thinking about this episode as Kino acting on a whim, assuming it's possible to apply the "humans can be irrational" justification to all of this. I absolutely understand this. So pls, don't mind me too much. XD It's not so much about the law per se. For me, it's more about the thought: does the girl think, she has the right to do this? Especially provoking the people there, after she killed the king. Then she said that revenge is ludicrous. If you are did so much damage the day ago, you should shut up about other people and their reasons at least, I think. XD It's just my personal pet peeve sometimes, when the MC walks by and provokes / interferes with other people's business. ^^" Depends on the situation ofc. And that's how Kino is usually portrayed. And that's the opposite of how Kino is usually portrayed. At least, outside of this particular story which, to be fair, is present in the light novel, the 2003, and in this current version. The story itself is just strangely told. |
ShockedOct 16, 2017 8:37 PM
Maneki-Mew said: Shocked said: And that's how Kino is usually portrayed. At least, outside of this particular story which, to be fair, is present in the light novel, the 2003, and in this current version. The story itself is just strangely told. Okay, to be honest, I don't know the 2003 version and expected more like... a Ginko from Mushishi or something? ^^" He also does this, but in a different way / I felt different towards him. Tho, don't get me wrong, the anime is definitely interesting and the animation is good and all. ^^ Wait, I messed up >.< As in, Kino is portrayed to act the opposite of that, prioritizing self-preservation over everything else. That's the primary reason Kino diving into death fights is weird, much less getting involved with the country's poliics. |
| I dislike that they took one of the worst story arcs in the original anime and then made it even worse. The 2003 one was bad since it pretty much ran contrast and almost defeated the entire theme of the show, but at the very least it had some neat artistic subtleties. This one's just awful. The only defense of this adaptation is at least we don't have to see another episode of it. |
Maneki-Mew said: It's not so much about the law per se. For me, it's more about the thought: does the girl think, she has the right to do this? Especially provoking the people there, after she killed the king. Then she said that revenge is ludicrous. If you have done so much damage the day ago, you should shut up about other people and their reasons at least, I think. XD It's just my personal pet peeve sometimes, when the MC walks by and provokes / interferes with other people's business. ^^" Depends on the situation and how they are doing it ofc. For an objective point of view, yes, she has the right to do so. That's how the laws work in this country. You can also wonder about how dangerous it can be if everyone have to obey to the rule no matter what. Someone can force a citizen of your choice to mary him/her, you can allow murder into the country, you can force the citizens to fight into the Colosseum if you want and so on. There is something wrong to offer such a right to an outsider. But, that's considering the king could allow any rule the winner want (hence the king's ending). Remember you're someone who fight for your live here while being used as an entertainment for the citizens. Shocked said: Maneki-Mew said: Okay, to be honest, I don't know the 2003 version and expected more like... a Ginko from Mushishi or something? ^^" He also does this, but in a different way / I felt different towards him. Tho, don't get me wrong, the anime is definitely interesting and the animation is good and all. ^^ Wait, I messed up >.< As in, Kino is portrayed to act the opposite of that, prioritizing self-preservation over everything else. That's the primary reason Kino diving into death fights is weird, much less getting involved with the country's poliics. Kino usually have the observer role. This country is very different compared to the others, because it force yourself to take part in a contest where the winner can "reform" the country. This episode placed Kino at the center of the attention the moment she say she won't let her opposant give her the right to yield. Instead of the citizens, it's more about the trapped travelers. I'd like to point out the rules of this country concerned the travelers and not the citizens, that's why the travelers should be more importants than the citizens. The old Kino looked more like a "normal" chapter because it also featured the society. But, in the old version, it didn't make sense Kino chose to continue fighting (I meant she could have left with the first fight) not knowing yet she could add a rule if she ended up winning. |
| First of all, I liked this episode. I watched 2003 series about 10 years ago so I pretty much don't remember it. Maybe it allows me to enjoy the series more than people familiar with the story. Comparing both series is reasonable. Such a high expectations toward current series are also influenced by previous adaptation. I can agree with voices stating that the episode was rushed. The background, that is society, its history and reasoning behind the law is not well introduced. Travellers Kino fights with have some personalities, they are different from each other but not much attention is put in them. It doesn't feel right. All the people Kino fought with were also visitors. And to be honest they didn't look like they get there unintentionally. They were well prepared fighters. Only some travellers get into Colosseum by accident. The woman and her husband were very unlucky to not know about the law. It is underlined by Hermes that Kino is angry. Where does that anger come from? Is it because she was tricked by the lady at the beginning? Or is it because it interrupted her plans to enjoy green scenery and forests of this country? Or does it come from urge to take the revenge for the met couple? Also notice how the episode starts with statement that your skills will get rusty if you don't use them to the fullest. The same is repeated before the first fight. Isn't it some kind of a bizarre opportunity for practice a combat for Kino? Even after killing the king and getting out of Colosseum Kino is still pissed off and throws rocks into the lake. From the given clues I assume it was the revenge after all. I wonder what will happen with that country after the dust settles down. |
| So. I don't want to be someone. Who constantly compares this series to the 03 one. But just comparing how they chose to adapt this story. VS how the 03 did. It's pretty clear who did it better. First of all if you don't remember. It was a two parter in the original series. And they cut a lot of stuff to condense it in this one. In the original series by the end you felt like you'd seen Kino go through hell. In a Thunderdomesque elimination death match. We'd met a few colorful characters. Seen them struggle and in most cases fail. And we had a firm grasp on the tyrannical despot's insanity. Kino's final showdown and decision to kill the king. Had 40 minutes worth of time backing it up. And felt like a big moment for Kino in the overall series. Here no one but the King's son matters. And so the final showdown feels much less surprising and significant. The King is hardly seen or mentioned. So instead of seeming like a Neroish fetid and corrupt leader. He's just a mustache twirler. Kino arbitrarily decides to blow away. The fact they tried to cram the talking dog into the last three minutes. Felt like insult to injury. And Kino's angry rock throwing. Felt melodramatic especially considering how unearned it was in this version. The animation's still pretty. But the kicker is this story was so rushed. I preferred the action scenes in the 03 series. Gone were the grueling and long sequences of Kino hiding behind the walls. Seeing an opening and taking it. Replaced with condensed and oh to brief posturing. This wasn't a god awful episode. But it paled in comparison to the Coliseum arc in the 03 series. I hope we get more unadapted stories in this series. If that's the way it's going to be. |
SubscriberSunOct 18, 2017 11:25 AM
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 My face the entire episode. I tried to watch this without comparing to the original, really. But I couldn't help myself. Almost no back story or characterization of anyone. I hate when things are condensed. And that motorrad CG keeps getting on my nerves. And THEY MADE RIKU UGLY. T_T 2/5 |
| I don't know about you guys but this episode is dope AF. If the country act like an asshole. Shove up their ass with civil war. Pure judgement is lit as heck. Should put another genre : Savage MC |
GEEKalea said: I tried to watch this without comparing to the original, really. But I couldn't help myself. Almost no back story or characterization of anyone. I hate when things are condensed. And that motorrad CG keeps getting on my nerves. And THEY MADE RIKU UGLY. T_T 2/5 You should read the (real) original story then, and understand what's the point of the story. ^^ By the way, could you tell me why Kino chose to continue fighting in the Colosseum in the 03's version? |
| I was always under the impression that Hermes' voice was a figment of Kino's imagination.. I don't remember him talking to the guard in the original, but it has been a while since I watched it. |
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| Dear lord the amount of elitism in these threads already. Only the 2nd episode too. Looking forward to dealing with this for the rest of the season. I've seen the original plenty of times, and the Colosseum arc has always been widely regarded as the worst part of Kino, and also completely out of place. At least it was only one episode this time. People are acting like Colosseum was some masterpiece. |
| Wow terrible remake of this part. They should have skipped this and adapted one of the 120+ chapters they haven't adapted. |
Little_Nai said: gintamaben said: Everyone talk like 2003 version episode are the original, while they didn't know that this version are more faithful to the original novel source than 2003 version. Yeah the 2003 version added many orginal things. The new version only left out a big part of the other fights so the the new version is much more faithful to the novels. Then the original novel is worse than the adaption, because this episode was horseshit compared to the 2003 adaption. Granted, the arc isn't the best but this was *really* bad. |
NidhoeggrOct 23, 2017 2:07 AM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| i had no idea what was going on and Kino was just a trigger happy psycho |
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| Beautiful OP Really liking this so far despite the hate, and that's coming from a fan of the original |
Crossburn said: Wow terrible remake of this part. They should have skipped this and adapted one of the 120+ chapters they haven't adapted. They can't. They need this to introduce Shizu & Riku and the reason why Kino know them in ep. 4. Making their meeting as flashback is no no as well, since the "Ship Country" is LONGER (and more popular) than "Colosseum". Also like other had said, the 2003 while added lore and stuff, CHANGED the message which also resulted change in Kino's motivation. The full title of the story is Colosseum -Avenger- (as seen at the end of this episode), which is not what the 2003 Colosseum about. The 2017 is not made to please people who only watched 2003 (and has the gal to insult the source novel), but to please people who follow Kino's (and others) Journey in the novels (and other media including the old anime) and getting new fan. Judging from the way they chose which story to adapt (popularity poll for the novel reader). The only reason why they readapt Colosseum, Land of Adults, and A Kind Land is because they're important (for background/introduction) and popular (colosseum is 4th, the later 2 are the 2nd and the 1st in aforementioned poll). |
| That's the result of trying to mix 2 episode in 1. the old kino anime is better , they give a lot of explanation about the kingdom condition and the king , it's more slow paced making it more interesting to me. this one they rushed everything , the fighting scene in the colloseum wasn't good . Idk if it's just me but the way kino hold her gun , i hate it , why must she hold her gun with the other hand at her chest , its just weird but still its refreshing to see kino in a more colorful way |
Exeterna said: That's the result of trying to mix 2 episode in 1. the old kino anime is better , they give a lot of explanation about the kingdom condition and the king , it's more slow paced making it more interesting to me. this one they rushed everything , the fighting scene in the colloseum wasn't good . Idk if it's just me but the way kino hold her gun , i hate it , why must she hold her gun with the other hand at her chest , its just weird but still its refreshing to see kino in a more colorful way Well, the same as for the other. The mainly just cut the fight and didn't say Shizu killed no one, and that's all. The kingdom is different than the 03's version, and so is the king. (03's was not faithful at all to the original story and add elements to change its take.) For example, in this version, Shizu let Kino kill the king while in the 03's, he tried to "prevent" it. |
| I guess most of guys here mad because they compared it to the "original" (it's not original actually, it's the modified version. While it's a good episode, It's not consistent with the authors vision tbh) For those who mad, why won't you read the novels? Do you guys needs to be given the backstory right at your face? Kino's Journey isn't about back story. And the '03 version broken it. It's about Kino's Journey. Most of the back story are left untold, and it's better like that. (if you think and rewatch it, you may know why Kino did that.) |
LoLyeahOct 29, 2017 6:12 AM
| "As long as you're alive, something happy bound to happens" -What a Wonderful World |
| Good episode. There's sad and fun parts. What makes me real sad is the Kino most probably refused this offer: |
The_Mad_WizardOct 29, 2017 3:09 PM
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| Wow, they absolutely failed in adapting this episode. Now she looks like vengeful little brat.. they didn't focused on the king's personality and Kino in this episode killed 2 people insted of 1. |
| This remade episode was totally different from what I remember in the 2003 original! Seems like A LOT of key elements to the story went missing. I thought the purpose of a remake was to make it better. That doesn't seem to be what's happened here. |
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| Rushed episode is what I call it and the king never had a chance to be bad. What about the blonde lady at the first part, what is her full story? The original explained it better even if its not that full. |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
Stark700 said: THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Solid OP song! So Kino is getting pushed around by some guys already this episode. I like how she keeps her cool though. Speaking of cool, I also like how she fought against some of her opponents with her gun and easily wins without breaking much of a sweat. Intense episode. I'm really impressed at how Kino handles her gun. So thanks for reminding me that Kino is a girl....I liked being surprised by things i forgot by the show itself. |
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| It has been quite a while since I watched the original Kino but I felt like they cut a lot from the colosseum story. Like the whole part where Kino was exploring around, learning about the slaves vs citizen status etc. And the end also didn't feel right. I can't remember Kino just coming across like a cold-hearted asshole seeking revenge. When I looked for the original adaption I realised the colosseum story had been split into two episodes. I will have to rewatch them to see what exactly they cut out. ButadonMeitante said: So this episode was all about revenge. Having not watched the original and seeing the above posts talking about how it presented this episode makes me a bit sad, knowing this episode could've been a lot better, but... I'm starting to think this series is not about the 'beautiful world' whatsoever... Heck, I'm surprised Kino went so far in the first place... And I did not expect the intensity of their guns. Uh it certainly is about the beautiful world. Although what's beautiful depends on the person, where their priorities lie and how they perceive things. It's a philosophical question and one of the reasons the original was so good. While it was mostly episodic, this question was kind of looming around as an over-arching connection between the chapters. |
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| should i watch the old one first or this one first? this episode seemed pretty solid to me |
| Wow, that opening! Blew me away (though not like the king). Mixed feelings on this episode. Certainly it provides a new perspective on the Colosseum, such as Kino preparing her armory for the fights, but really there's no comparison. The first series did an infinitely better job, albeit that's probably because it had two episodes to flesh everything out. Still, there were key moments that I wish hadn't been left out. The king's psychotic, vindictive nature isn't really brought here; he just looks like a pompous ass. Overall it just felt like a passing whim in this version whereas the first series made it an iconic moment in Kino's journey. |
ZekkenshinNov 20, 2017 6:24 AM
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| Even without having watched the 2003 adaptation, I got a could guess about Kino's intentions, and thought this adaptation is fine as it is. There's just two things I didn't fully understand, and was hoping somebody could explain to me. One is WTF kind of bullet did Kino make? It seems like she was putting liquid explosive and a primer in the top of a hollowpoint, and then stacked plastic explosive on top. Now that could be a (weird) thing, but it totally doesn't fit the description that it'd make a bullet go faster. Second is this here below: Rehls said: Well, reading the posters' complaint has influenced me. I was just gonna leave a comment about the woman the protagonist apparently has met (wasn't shown before, was it?), saying that she must've been discontent in her relationship, thus felt relief in the death of her partner--and that by telling the protagonist to go to that place, knowing how it is, must've meant that she became a bitter person then (to put it lightly). I didn't really get that. Was she bitter, or did she have faith in Kino's skills and was it a cry for revenge? |
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
| Liked the episode, i don't know why people are angry and hating about the cut, they are not remaking the prequel, they are remaking it from the LN's pov so is not going to be same. More faitfull to the source i guess. |
| The Anime Binge Is Life -PolarCyrus97 2k17- |
| Quite lovely second episode, which was actually quite intense! Looking forwards to see what's next. |
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| Despite not as long as the 2003 series did. It was okay. Its obvious Kino wants to kill the king by shooting him long range. That's why she made a powerful bullet. And deym that was a huge mess. The Dog's reaction was funny. I don't remember the 2003 version, but I think this remake is good imho. But I'll watch that version, when I have the time. |
Maneki-Mew said: What's her problem? XD I mean, she doesn't FORCE the people to fight in the end, but she provokes it on purpose. I really don't know what to think about that / the question is: are you allowed to do such things, if you are just a traveler and not familar with the country? And then she is judging about "revenge is ludicrous", but intervenes with the business of other countries that much as a traveler. she puts ppl to the test if they kill each other for that power they are not worth saving so the hole town should die if they are so far gone that they would kill each other for that, the last one standing will have nothing to rule over lol & she didn't do it for revenge, she so a big problem & decided to fix it & big problem was the current King & then she made that law to test ppl, so when she called revenge stupid it was her stating her opinion :) & awry1 has the right to state their opinion my point she didn't judge any1 she just gave them a test that makes them judge themselves |
Sugram22Jan 8, 2018 3:35 AM
| right when I started wondering why the motorbike was talking again, this time it was a dog that started talking. I'm still unsure of the world setting of the story. there were also a few implications which were difficult to grasp, like that young woman. |
joa12222 said: ThatCynicalOtaku said: Kino never threatened anyone out of anger. She'd never tell people to kill each other. Most of all, she would never even care, about someone enough to be angry for them. So wait, why is this episode another adaptation of the same arc then? If season 1 already did it. I mean episode 1 was completely new. The ending of this episode was the same as the light novel. It isn't out of character if it happened in the first volume of the source material. And the reason they adapted this story again is because Shizu appears in later stories so they had to introduce him to new viewers. I am afraid you're totally wrong. People claiming that this is how the LN treated the story are only close, but not accurate. Her speech and its effect on the people was different in the LN, as posted by someone in this thread who has reproduced the speech from the original novel. I also agree with most of the criticisms of this episode and comparison with the 2003 version. The 2003 version, whether less faithful or not, was far superior in terms of direction, sound, dialogue and character expression. This one seems flippant and reductive in its approach to everything. Case in point is Kino's last speech which is not only illogical, morally wrong (this point is normative, thus can be argued otherwise), but also out of character. I say this because the whole point of her character is her not interfering unless absolutely needed. Especially not fucking around with a country's socio-political or cultural norms to the extent she did here, out of a misplaced sense of anger. That's not Kino. Kino is calm and calculated, and is never wrathful. Instead, UNLIKE the light novel, she initiated a city wide genocide for no logical or moral reason whatsoever, and the only conclusion after a reasonable analysis of her behaviour one can make is that Kino of the 2017 version is a veritable sociopath. Sugram22 said: Maneki-Mew said: What's her problem? XD I mean, she doesn't FORCE the people to fight in the end, but she provokes it on purpose. I really don't know what to think about that / the question is: are you allowed to do such things, if you are just a traveler and not familar with the country? And then she is judging about "revenge is ludicrous", but intervenes with the business of other countries that much as a traveler. she puts ppl to the test if they kill each other for that power they are not worth saving so the hole town should die if they are so far gone that they would kill each other for that, the last one standing will have nothing to rule over lol & she didn't do it for revenge, she so a big problem & decided to fix it & big problem was the current King & then she made that law to test ppl, so when she called revenge stupid it was her stating her opinion :) & awry1 has the right to state their opinion my point she didn't judge any1 she just gave them a test that makes them judge themselves There is a big problem with that argument. 1. If that rationale is accepted, then she is a hypocrite and there is no difference between her and the people involved, because she practically initiated a city wide genocide. Therefore, she should also be treated the same way. 2. Violence doesn't normally fix the problem in the context, because she is trying to end violence with more killing, which doesn't make sense. 3. it's just too simplistic, the law she made at the end would obviously result in killing of people who do not want to be involved in the violence directly, which means unavoidable loss of innocent lives. It does not make any logical or philosophical sense. |
eyerokJan 10, 2018 2:14 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| This one seems super lackluster when compared to the original. I think they would have been better off sticking with entirely adapted stories, especially the colosseum since it already got a two episode adaptation. Was not impressed by this one. |
| Can't believe how much they messed this episode up, they completely changed Kino's personality and motives, and made the country seem pointless and boring. I know they were trying to fit a long story in to one episode, but if you have to ruin the story THIS MUCH to do it then you probably shouldn't have bothered. This series barely has any resemblance to the source material, thank god the original anime still exists. |
| It was alright, worse compared to the 2003 version, they leave out a lot of the backstory for the king, Kino's reasoning etc. Despite that, it delivered the message, unfortunately not in the best way. |
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| Ofc they would choose the arc with multiple episodes to remake into one. Things they missed out: - Character background of the competitors and the guard, especially shizu - The lunacy of the King - better strategic fighting scenes - Kino directly telling spectators to leave the country if they don’t want to fight - the socia inequality that exists in the country - more doggo scenes |
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| Why would the wife, now a widow when they met her again suggest Kino visit this country? Did Kino saw something in her eyes that she wasn't saying? I assumed he had be a son or some relation when he said "It's been awhile" after he climbed the King's Box in the Colosseum and I was right. Now the country goes to anarchy until the last man standing is left and becomes king, I just hope there;s somebody to rule after all that battle royale! A talking dog! Hermes you're a hypocrite and a racist, you're a talking motorcycle! LOL |
| You see there's no need to wonder where your god is, Coz he's right here! ...and he's fresh out of mercy. |
tofei said: Why would the wife, now a widow when they met her again suggest Kino visit this country? I believe she's supposed to have gone insane due to her experience in the coliseum. In the 2003 adaptation there's a parallel between her and the king who isn't simply a brutal tyrant but is clearly insane and seems to hate the bloodshed even as he insists on causing more and more of it. |
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