Descending Stories
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candyfaces said: Well when you say that a character is gay in anime people just think of pandering and fanservice for females which is stupid and ignorant. It was said that Kiku was raised in a brothel and felt like he wanted to be a female and there were a lot of moments where you feel that he had some romantic affection towards Shin does he have true romantic feelings towards him i don't know that but you won't expect people in that period in japan to directly express there true feelings for fuck sake that's the whole point of the show that also explains why Kiku admires Shin so much it's because Shin is his opposite he can freely express himself without caring what people think and say about him and in my opinion that what Kiku dream is that why he felt so happy and natural when he acted as a woman in his rakugo.sun123 said: i guess kiku really liked his first girlfriend. But it looks like they didn't had much time together because she had to go to country and the war also begun. His first girlfriend had a personality that imo matches perfectly to kiku. And no, i don't think he is gay. Maybe the fujoshis want him to be gay, but that's not gonna happen xD I don't necessarily think we can rule out the idea that Kiku could be gay. Like, it's not just a thought that people are reaching for, there is genuine subtext that still indicates he could be. He may even be bi for all we know. For one, the mangaka who worked on this has also worked on a lot of BL manga before so it isn't totally implausible that he could be. Kiku didn't seem to hold much interest in his first girlfriend. If I remember correctly, he only mentioned how "nice it would be to settle down with a nice girl like this". There isn't really much passion in his words. He just describes her as "nice" and "gentle". I'm not sure how many of you guys are gay, but that's a really relatable experience for a lot of gay youth. You grow up thinking that life would be so much easier if you were able to be"normal"(straight) and assimilate by getting married. This seems even more likely by the era this is set in. We can't really mark out gay-ness just because Kiku says he's in love with Miyokichi. Like there are implications obviously there. Especially within his conversations with Sukeroku. Like did people forget about the years they've spent together? The romantic embrace (lol) after Sukeroku came back from Manchuria? The scenes in the bath and the scenes in Kiku's lap where Miyokichi was obviously jealous? IDK I don't really think people are making this up, and invalidating people's opinions on this just seems counterproductive for having good discussion on the matter. But w/e just my onion. :^O |
maverick0999 said: candyfaces said: Well when you say that a character is gay in anime people just think of pandering and fanservice for females which is stupid and ignorant. It was said that Kiku was raised in a brothel and felt like he wanted to be a female and there were a lot of moments where you feel that he had some romantic affection towards Shin does he have true romantic feelings towards him i don't know that but you won't expect people in that period in japan to directly express there true feelings for fuck sake that's the whole point of the show that also explains why Kiku admires Shin so much it's because Shin is his opposite he can freely express himself without caring what people think and say about him and in my opinion that what Kiku dream is that why he felt so happy and natural when he acted as a woman in his rakugo.I don't necessarily think we can rule out the idea that Kiku could be gay. Like, it's not just a thought that people are reaching for, there is genuine subtext that still indicates he could be. He may even be bi for all we know. For one, the mangaka who worked on this has also worked on a lot of BL manga before so it isn't totally implausible that he could be. Kiku didn't seem to hold much interest in his first girlfriend. If I remember correctly, he only mentioned how "nice it would be to settle down with a nice girl like this". There isn't really much passion in his words. He just describes her as "nice" and "gentle". I'm not sure how many of you guys are gay, but that's a really relatable experience for a lot of gay youth. You grow up thinking that life would be so much easier if you were able to be"normal"(straight) and assimilate by getting married. This seems even more likely by the era this is set in. We can't really mark out gay-ness just because Kiku says he's in love with Miyokichi. Like there are implications obviously there. Especially within his conversations with Sukeroku. Like did people forget about the years they've spent together? The romantic embrace (lol) after Sukeroku came back from Manchuria? The scenes in the bath and the scenes in Kiku's lap where Miyokichi was obviously jealous? IDK I don't really think people are making this up, and invalidating people's opinions on this just seems counterproductive for having good discussion on the matter. But w/e just my onion. :^O i don't have a problem if for example, in the end of the anime they reveal that kiku is gay. I will still like his character anyway. I just don't like when people presume that he could be gay only because he never appeared touching a girl or sth like that. He has his own personality and that why this anime is so good. He is very different of sukeroku, and still, they can really understand each other. When i watched all this episode, i saw their bromance only in a level of friendship and nothing else. |
sun123 said: Well most people in forums and "critics" like to predict and guess things that happen in a show and pretend that there opinion is the end all be all, so my advice will be just to ignore them.maverick0999 said: Well when you say that a character is gay in anime people just think of pandering and fanservice for females which is stupid and ignorant. It was said that Kiku was raised in a brothel and felt like he wanted to be a female and there were a lot of moments where you feel that he had some romantic affection towards Shin does he have true romantic feelings towards him i don't know that but you won't expect people in that period in japan to directly express there true feelings for fuck sake that's the whole point of the show that also explains why Kiku admires Shin so much it's because Shin is his opposite he can freely express himself without caring what people think and say about him and in my opinion that what Kiku dream is that why he felt so happy and natural when he acted as a woman in his rakugo. i don't have a problem if for example, in the end of the anime they reveal that kiku is gay. I will still like his character anyway. I just don't like when people presume that he could be gay only because he never appeared touching a girl or sth like that. He has his own personality and that why this anime is so good. He is very different of sukeroku, and still, they can really understand each other. When i watched all this episode, i saw their bromance only in a level of friendship and nothing else. |
| Where Miyokichi's desperation and clinginess to Kiku were really annoying at first, now that I have a better understanding, it makes her a more sympathetic character in my eyes. Kiku was probably the best thing that she would ever get her hands on and she didn't want to lose him. My heart is aching for Kiku because he really did love Miyokichi, but loves rakugo more. Not to mention that reputation plays a large part in your success in the world of rakugo. Kiku would go nowhere in the rakugo world if he was in a serious relationship/married to a former prostitute turned Geisha. Next week's episode looks like some real shiggedy is about to go down. |
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candyfaces said: sun123 said: i guess kiku really liked his first girlfriend. But it looks like they didn't had much time together because she had to go to country and the war also begun. His first girlfriend had a personality that imo matches perfectly to kiku. And no, i don't think he is gay. Maybe the fujoshis want him to be gay, but that's not gonna happen xD I don't necessarily think we can rule out the idea that Kiku could be gay. Like, it's not just a thought that people are reaching for, there is genuine subtext that still indicates he could be. He may even be bi for all we know. For one, the mangaka who worked on this has also worked on a lot of BL manga before so it isn't totally implausible that he could be. Kiku didn't seem to hold much interest in his first girlfriend. If I remember correctly, he only mentioned how "nice it would be to settle down with a nice girl like this". There isn't really much passion in his words. He just describes her as "nice" and "gentle". I'm not sure how many of you guys are gay, but that's a really relatable experience for a lot of gay youth. You grow up thinking that life would be so much easier if you were able to be"normal"(straight) and assimilate by getting married. This seems even more likely by the era this is set in. We can't really mark out gay-ness just because Kiku says he's in love with Miyokichi. Like there are implications obviously there. Especially within his conversations with Sukeroku. Like did people forget about the years they've spent together? The romantic embrace (lol) after Sukeroku came back from Manchuria? The scenes in the bath and the scenes in Kiku's lap where Miyokichi was obviously jealous? IDK I don't really think people are making this up, and invalidating people's opinions on this just seems counterproductive for having good discussion on the matter. But w/e just my onion. :^O Not ruling out but since it's not in that category of manga, we may just never know what he really thinks and perhaps he doesn't know either, but that's right, the author mostly wrote BL, I think it's her only one story that is not BL. Personally, I think he's just not good with romantic relationships, I think he loves Shin more than anybody else then but not in a sexual way. (well I have no idea) In the OVAs which are pretty much like the first episode with some extra scenes, we see him ruffling Yotaro's hair while he's sleeping on his lap, a thing he did with Shin too...However with his girlfriends, well I have the impression that they are the ones in love and he let him do as they please, he's really passive, he likes them but doesn't seem in love with them. None of his love stories moved me, his relationship with Miyokichi was unbearable to watch, that poor girl was literally begging for attention, he liked her but what did he do for her? She is also 5 yo older than him, he has little experience with women and I don't think he understand them, he was not ready for that relationship in my opinion. I'm fine with the fact that he may not have a love story, I don't know why we should absolutely make a pairing Kiku x? I love that story as it is. I know a lot of gay men that used to date girls, some of them even got married to women and had kids before getting out of the closet. They just went with the flow, with what society was telling them even if they felt something was wrong and they couldn't fit the mold. They liked their girlfriends too but it was not like being madly in love with someone so I agree with that, we can't rule that possibility out based on that fact. I won't choose for him, maybe he is, maybe is he not, that doesn't matter to me. |
AnnickFeb 28, 2016 11:06 AM
My Candies: 2024       2023  2022       Bonus candies: 2024   2023  2022  |
| The ep. made me feel really sad. I especially feel bad for Miyokichi and the way Kiku treated her. I understand his reasons but that doesn't make me feel any better about the whole situation. |
| It's really so hard for me to get over how tough it must be for Miyokichi. She's such a wonderful character. But I guess Kiku has his own case. Sukeroku continues to be the sun that the stupid elders can't acknowledge with their formalities |
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| Thus they took different paths in their Rakugo |
| I'm bisexual and I've slept with both men and women but I don't spend my waking hours thinking about sex and fucking people 24/7. I can go without sex for months. I don't see how Kiku is automatically gay just because he's not promiscuous. Sukeroku is, by default, manlier because he's more rough and isn't as careful about his appearance like Kiku is? That doesn't make sense at all. Kiku isn't in a relationship, Kiku hasn't impregnated a girl, Kiku doesn't want to fuck around, ergo he's gay. What the fuck kind of logic is this shit? He could be bisexual but I don't see how his sexual orientation has anything to do with whether or not he wants to commit to a relationship with Miyokichi. He was visibly upset from both his actions and words when he saw Sukeroku and Miyokichi in embrace. I don't see why he would be that upset unless he was hurt by what he saw. His best friend and a girl that he loved in a romantic embrace, well, at least form his perspective. |
| 臭い- |
Bibimbapski said: I'm bisexual and I've slept with both men and women but I don't spend my waking hours thinking about sex and fucking people 24/7. I can go without sex for months. I don't see how Kiku is automatically gay just because he's not promiscuous. Sukeroku is, by default, manlier because he's more rough and isn't as careful about his appearance like Kiku is? That doesn't make sense at all. Kiku isn't in a relationship, Kiku hasn't impregnated a girl, Kiku doesn't want to fuck around, ergo he's gay. What the fuck kind of logic is this shit? He could be bisexual but I don't see how his sexual orientation has anything to do with whether or not he wants to commit to a relationship with Miyokichi. He was visibly upset from both his actions and words when he saw Sukeroku and Miyokichi in embrace. I don't see why he would be that upset unless he was hurt by what he saw. His best friend and a girl that he loved in a romantic embrace, well, at least form his perspective. I don't think people think he is gay because not promiscuous, even if he was very sexual with girls, they would think the same. It's all in how his relationship with Shin is showed in the anime, how he looks at him, gestures, facial expressions, words...Well obviously Kiku loves Shin, some see just friendship, some see something more. If we compare that relationship with others, we see that he has one special relationship with him that he doesn't have with others people then. People who think he's gay, would think he just disliked seeing Miyokichi clinging to his love interest. Personally I saw that he was just annoyed at Shin's behavior kinda forcing her then took advantage of it to get rid of her, I didn't see that he was that upset or hurt, even in the manga, I think he had decided to close his heart to love long before that. |
| My Candies: 2024 2023 2022 Bonus candies: 2024 2023 2022 |
| Sukeroku is amazing, love his character. Little gutted for Miyokichi. |
Fumito said: aikaflip said: People who can't—or don't even try—to balance their personal and work life annoy me. "I must give up everyone to master muh rakugo!" It's so small-minded and egotistical. The fact that you've gained such a close-minded general opinion towards those people, it really displays your ignorance haha. Kiku clearly states that he ultimately wants to be alone, despite his aforementioned feelings about Miyokichi. Your cancerous view of the whole debacle is nauseating, at least try to open your mind and understand Kiku's perspective. I do understand it because for a brief time I used to be like him. Abandoning who you care about, and who care about you, for the sake of your work is ridiculous. I'm not saying that this series is bad now because of this. I'm just saying that Kiku, at this point in the story, is annoying me. |
| Kiku was really cruel with Miyokichi, it was really sad that he decided to break up with her because his sensei asked him too, I bet the sensei were jealous! So I guess Miyokichi and Sukeroku are really going to happen, the both were abandoned by Kiku, so sad that Kiku won't be with her =/ |
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aikaflip said: Fumito said: The fact that you've gained such a close-minded general opinion towards those people, it really displays your ignorance haha. Kiku clearly states that he ultimately wants to be alone, despite his aforementioned feelings about Miyokichi. Your cancerous view of the whole debacle is nauseating, at least try to open your mind and understand Kiku's perspective. I do understand it because for a brief time I used to be like him. Abandoning who you care about, and who care about you, for the sake of your work is ridiculous. I'm not saying that this series is bad now because of this. I'm just saying that Kiku, at this point in the story, is annoying me. It's not so simple for Kiku. Don't forget that he was living in a period of time in Japan that be with someome like miyokichi could destroy his career. If he chooses her instead of his work, would he really be happy without rakugo? I have my doubts... And to me, it looks like Kiku doesn't know if he is the right person for miyokichi. I guess he wants miyokichi to be happy with someone that can actually take care of her. |
| Dang, what a great episode. We get to see what Miyokichi wants, her interacting with Sukeroku, and then Kiku seeing them too ... even though Sukeroku just said he was on a trip :P Anyway seems like he likes her in his own way, but he just loves rakugo more. Then some great discussion between the two friends and where rakugo is going ... aww, don't break up you two!!! :( In any case I loved how Sukeroku gave his fan to Kiku, I guess he's getting kicked out and they gotta go their separate ways now ... in any case, both of them get to be promoted thanks to Yakumo. Looks like there's gonna be some more drama next episode especially with Sukeroku, but looks like this is where Kiku has his "talk" with Miyokichi too. Is this where she gets with Sukeroku ...? :O |
| Life is a cruel mistress, for every party involved. Some insight into Miyokichi's background is definitely a welcome addition, Kiku showing hints of affection is commendable as well. |
| So Kiku is breaking up with her.l.l.... |
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| What a rollercoaster. Kiku being an ass and mistreating Miyokichi. I swear, the only love he has in his heart is for rakugo and Sukeroku. Sukeroku being an ass and treating his master and seniors with contempt. Very typical of the young, who are sure they are always in the right and treat others as fools- until reality bit him in the ass. Then blaming his master for favouritism -could it be that he never even entertained the thought that his own foul attitude poisoned others towards him? Miyokichi acting very strangely; it feels like she's setting up a long con over one, maybe both of them. |
| Another great episode, i had zero expectations going in to this anime, but thank God that i picked it up. This is the gem of the season. Damn Kiku, you need to chill out lol |
| Wow, a double break-up with Miyokichi and Shin! Was not expecting that. I could see Miyokichi's breakup from a mile away but I would've thought Kiku was more comfortable around Shin after all the time they spent together. Makes me a bit somber to be honest. A rakugo that never changes and a rakugo that changes with the times. Now I finally see the promise between Kiku and Shin. Does this mean we will finally see Yotarou again? I hope so because it's his job to combine both of these things; a rakugo that doesn't change yet changes as time moves on. It's a paradox but then again the world is full of them so it's not impossible! |
| Oh, now I get it. It was unthinkable to marry a prostitute when he wanted to be acknowledged by elders who held all permits and licenses and respected by the people. Stigma of the society I guess (it's not too different today though). He certainly loved her but he loved rakugo even more more. Poor Miyokichi though. Excellent episode again, this series never disappoints me. |
| Great episode as usual. Sad they chose to distance themselves from each other. |
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| That hug!!! Kyaaaaaaaaaaa <3 |
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| In this episode if written an important page of the plot, what comes out is a mixture of sadness and harsh reality underpinned by a healthy discussion of the events that the narrative makes us live in an almost flawless. Good drawings and scenery. |
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| Another very interesting episode! I quite like where this is going :p |
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Jacara said: What a rollercoaster. Kiku being an ass and mistreating Miyokichi. I swear, the only love he has in his heart is for rakugo and Sukeroku. Sukeroku being an ass and treating his master and seniors with contempt. Very typical of the young, who are sure they are always in the right and treat others as fools- until reality bit him in the ass. Then blaming his master for favouritism -could it be that he never even entertained the thought that his own foul attitude poisoned others towards him? Miyokichi acting very strangely; it feels like she's setting up a long con over one, maybe both of them. i so agree with you Kiku should just marry that girl and then focus on his rakugo but my biggest beef is with Sukeroku for as u said being an ass,he comes to work late or doesn't show up at all,no regard to his master and seniors,hangs around sleazy women and drinks his money away i mean hes the most popular rakugoka right so why in the hell you always asking kiku for money huh.Don't get me wrong i don't hate him but he act like an ass |
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| Welp, that's what it takes to be successful. |
| Well, Now that Kikuhiko said that his master words heavily affect him, that's pretty justified for him to wanted to broke up with Miyokichi, but hey at least I won't be that dense to suddenly appeared when Sukeroku's hugging him or not visiting her place and will do it more softly. Perhaps men who's denser than me really do exist... (I've been called by many as dense, even my mother and I still can consider this Kikuhiko as super dense and understand how Miyokichi's feel) |
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| Really great development for Kiku, Sukeroku and Miyokichi as well! Turns out Kiku does care for Miyokichi, but just not in the same sense that she loves him and definitely not enough to stop concentrating on Rakugo! His feelings are still too lukewarm for me to ever think of them as "love"...but hey, at least he managed to air his feelings to Sukeroku- he gets a little too comfortable around him, so much so that he feels that staying would effect his Rakugo. It really does make me laugh bc Sukeroku illicits reactions out of Kiku that Miyokichi has tried so hard to get!! Poor Miyokichi is only ever attracted to the men who are cold and apathetic towards her, probably because of her past and the nature of her job...the "nice guys" like Sukeroku are just more difficult for her to deal with...I wonder if it's to do with feelings of taking advantage and whatnot? Or because the nice guys are way more difficult for her to deny and therefore more difficult to anticipate/handle. She was much more in charge and in control when with Kiku, which probably comforted her- she just looked so shocked and awkward when Sukeroku glomped her. I did like their interactions though XD Sukeroku also has a more contemplative side, and it was really nice to see that side of him when he's talking to Kiku, especially with the significance of him giving Kiku his fan. |
Strawberrycake48Oct 31, 2016 2:33 PM
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| Am I the only one that is getting annoyed that we're not getting back to the present? Or to put it bluntly I would have preferred they started chronologically and then time skipped to the present. |
| Nothing can happen until you swing the bat. |
| Shit, Kiku you are going to lost the girl for sure. I feeling pity for you. |
| "The future is always blank. Only your willpower can leave footsteps there." "Ruling over death means ruling over life. Death is the climax of life. To have the best death, you must honor life." |
| It's sad that Bon had to break it off with Miyo because of his career despite having some feelings for her but as he said himself, he doesn't love her that bad and he was well aware that it was a choice he would've had to make at some point in time. If anything, it was pretty brave of him to be decisive right now rather than letting the situation get worse by leading Miyo on any further. Speaking of Miyo, good fucking Lord if that isn't one broken woman. Now her unhealthily high level of attachment to Bon makes a lot more sense, given her background and personal motives. This b has way too much baggage to be happy with a man like him. What worries me the most though is Bon and Shin's own "breakup" : if there's one thing that could definitely hurt either of these two it's definitely being separated from each other and while I understand Bon's reasons for thinking he can't improve his rakugo or move forward when he's near Shin, I still believe he made the wrong call there. The next episodes have "TRAGEDY" written all over them. |
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| It was hardly a relationship in the first place so not surprising at all. |
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| I'm glad that Yakumo and Shin are both getting promoted. It would've really sucked if Shin got stuck in the same position for the rest of his life no matter his skill level simply because the elders didn't like him. On the subject of Miyokichi...didn't she kind of force her relationship onto Yakumo in the first place? And then she gets all upset with him. The whole time she was talking with Shin, I was expecting it to take an adulterous (are they even in a real relationship?) turn, and actually said "Please don't have sex with him." to my screen. But why did Shin force himself on her like that? Did he know that Yakumo was nearby? |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| Idk why, but I'll be much happier if Miyokichi ends up with Sukeroku instead of Kikuhiko since Sukeroku looks likes someone who'll always be there to make sure she's happy. If Kikuhiko really loves Miyokochi, there's no way he'll make her cry. Gaaaaah. Really glad this show's not going a trainwreck path and didn't ruin Sukeroku and Kikuhiko's friendship over a girl... unlike most romance. Pfffft. Love this shit. Yaas. |
     "Maybe he's trying to take a shit, but the shit just won't come out." Captain Levi, 2014 (／^-^)／☆♪  ♪☆＼(^０^＼) |
| That was a hurting lie, but Yakumo had to cut ties with Miyokichi if he wanted to go up in the world of Rakugo, that girl can't catch a break considering her backstory... Sukeroku managed to promote as well, but seeing the situation who knows what will happen, and more with him trying to get closer to Miyokichi. |
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| Honestly, in all the previous episodes Kiku has come off as really gay, and this one isn't much of a deterrance because he seems to not be super interested in ending up with a woman ultimately anyway. It seems to me the era of the time is even more forboding to gay relationships than straight ones, and a lot of parallels are drawn between Miyokichi and Sukeroku. He 'breaks up' with them both in this episode, with this exact wording. He is not interested enough in a relationship with Miyokichi to even think about pressing against society. Ergo, there is no way that he would do the same with Sukeroku (if he is even able to sort out his feelings there). |
ClaptrapApr 25, 2018 6:16 PM
| Interesting discussion on relationships, but even more interesting was the less pointed out historical and cultural aspects of the show. Anywho, contributing my two cents, the whole gay or not debate is thematically pointless since there is no clear indication or intention of showing that in kiku's or shins character. People are seeing what they're seeing only because of their postmodern liberal cultural biases towards sexuality and how it should work. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Feel bad for the girl but why choose just that fox. Sukeroku is without a doubt the best character so far with that carefree personality. |
| I knew what was going to happen 3 eps ago, this is so predictable and corny. It's honestly making me cringe. |
| Kiku chose rakugo over Miyokichi, hm, I'm not happy with that. |
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| I feel really bad for Konatsu. Her and Yakumo clearly both really care for one another, but I guess the relationship just can't work due to the extenuating circumstances. |
| Damn what the hell are you doing kiku tossing your girl like that even tho she deeply in love with you and you also love her so why? (The reason kiku explained is so shit) I am sad that they would break up but if she patch up with shin-chan! That I don't want to see man. Im super scared of the next episode. Fuck I know they will gonna marry (sinchan+miyokichi). I mean the girl in the first episode (The daughter of sinchan) look exactly like miyokichi. No no no no please tell me I'm wrong :( I can't take these types of love development. And I don't want quite this anime just for this stupid reason :( |
| Well, I was almost convinced that this would be the point where Miyokichi would switch to Shin, but at least she opened up and even Bon revealed his true feelings. And man, I think I've already said it, but the friendship between Shin and Bon is so precious. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
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