blumenbalt said: To be fair, Kate Leth is not someone i'd want writing a show at Crunchyroll. Whether it's "SJW" or not.Pullman said: Sorry, I lacked explanation, I meant the LGBT/social justice flame/defense, I've been seeing a lot of threads lately that or complaing about this on animes or the lack of it or some one start bashing on it specially because of the not this shit again crunchyroll controversyNot that I've noticed. Those genres were never popular outside of their niche fanbase so I wouldn't say it's a recent trend or anything like that. |
 I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| Oversaturation basically. Isekai isn't the issue, but the amount of Isekai we get year in and year out annoys people. |
My Queens  |
KatsutoSaki said: Grey-Zone said: I specifically saw quite a few anime youtubers on their "what i watch in season X 201X" videos dismiss any isekai instantly as trash regardless of anything. My guess is that one of the big anime youtubers once made a video ranting about how terrible isekai are which caused many others to copy paste that behaviour and it influenced a lot of the Western anime community. Anime YouTubers are worthless pieces of shit. Almost all of their videos make no sense. Using clickbait titles, and baseless crap in their videos, they declare what's the worst and what's not. Their views on a specific trope or a show is irrelevant af (to me at least). If people are gonna follow them, without even giving it a thought and saying they are right. And taking their words as facts. Then so be it. You can't change someone who doesn't even have the capacity to think by themselves... So, no matter how much hate "some" people direct towards isekai. As long as it sells, it'll always prove them wrong. One particular instance of the sheer irrationality of the isekai hate was with a live-stream by a small time youtuber (just 3k subscribers) called "jojo talks too much" (who is also a big fan of Overlord) had a livestream discussing fall 2018 shows and when he went through the list he said he looks forward to Goblin Slayer because it looks good and is not isekai, but rather just fantasy. Then when he reached the slime isekai, he totally got triggered after reading the words "reincarnated into another" world that he started an incoherent rant, as if seeing just one more isekai would truly kill him (again, he is a fan of Overlord). And only after the live chat comments urged him to watch it because they said that it's one of the better isekai, did he finally, very very reluctantly, gave in. That really freaked me out a bit how much hatred he had for any "new and unknown" isekai, despite liking another isekai, i.e. Overlord. If you want to see, it's this video, the isekai rant in question is around the timestamp of 1:23:18. https://youtu.be/xuBI4QyJIoI?t=1h23m18s |
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Pullman said: Never heard of Garzey's Wing, but i'll take your word for it. Damn that's old. I think things will only get better in the years to come but probably not anytime soon, Isekai is still in diapers.Lunilah said: Homogeneous premise that has little or no impact on the anime as a whole. They become indistinguishable from basic fantasy/magic anime, with soft rules. I have vehement disgust for SAO BUT, i wish more Isekai took from it's dual worlds story telling, because they seem to throw away it's reality and implications. I agree. I like most of them because I have an affinity for fantasy and adventure and that's usually 80% of what these shows are, if not more. As for dual world storytelling, that could definitely be something interesting that would be cool to see more frequently. Then again it immediately makes me think of Garzeys Wing and feel like maybe it's for the best anime has avoided that since then xD. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
Lunilah said: blumenbalt said: To be fair, Kate Leth is not someone i'd want writing a show at Crunchyroll. Whether it's "SJW" or not.Sorry, I lacked explanation, I meant the LGBT/social justice flame/defense, I've been seeing a lot of threads lately that or complaing about this on animes or the lack of it or some one start bashing on it specially because of the not this shit again crunchyroll controversy To be even fairer tho, when I defended the concept trailer noone I argued against ever even mentioned her as a reason why they are so hateful or against it, most people just parroted random anti-sjw, anti-western phrases without much content or, in some cases, relation to reality. It was only much later that someone, who I wasn't even arguing with, pointed out her as a specific reason to be wary and critical of the show. And tbh, I can't argue with that, she seems like an obnoxious person for sure. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| @Pullman @Lunilah this anime has an interesting "dual world" isekai-ish setting , and it's also the only other anime the Made in Abyss guy worked on https://myanimelist.net/anime/607/Otogi_Juushi_Akazukin |
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| I understand where the hate come from most of them are bad. It includes generic main character,Meadering plot,All of them have nearly bad main heroine and Cliche plot. I only like Two Isekai anime Overlord Log horizon Besides this two most of it is bad. Even log horizon season 2 for me Is very bad. |
Lunilah said: Pullman said: Never heard of Garzey's Wing, but i'll take your word for it. Damn that's old. I think things will only get better in the years to come but probably not anytime soon, Isekai is still in diapers.I agree. I like most of them because I have an affinity for fantasy and adventure and that's usually 80% of what these shows are, if not more. As for dual world storytelling, that could definitely be something interesting that would be cool to see more frequently. Then again it immediately makes me think of Garzeys Wing and feel like maybe it's for the best anime has avoided that since then xD. You haven't? It's one of the most well known garbage titles out there, with convoluted storytelling topped by even worse voice acting. It's a blast to watch just for the lulz and I think it's even on Youtube. The reason why it's more popular than other trashy titles is because it's made by Tomino, the creator of Gundam. And because of that legendary dub. Give it a try one, it truly is hilarious :>. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: I'd be fine with it if she had a genuine apology anywhere and showed signs of change. Other than that, politically... well basically this.Lunilah said: To be fair, Kate Leth is not someone i'd want writing a show at Crunchyroll. Whether it's "SJW" or not. To be even fairer tho, when I defended the concept trailer noone I argued against ever even mentioned her as a reason why they are so hateful or against it, most people just parroted random anti-sjw, anti-western phrases without much content or, in some cases, relation to reality. It was only much later that someone, who I wasn't even arguing with, pointed out her as a specific reason to be wary and critical of the show. And tbh, I can't argue with that, she seems like an obnoxious person for sure. Edit: romagia said: Whew this sounds pretty neat.@Pullman @Lunilah this anime has an interesting "dual world" isekai-ish setting , and it's also the only other anime the Made in Abyss guy worked on https://myanimelist.net/anime/607/Otogi_Juushi_Akazukin |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| I don't know what's up with this guys, i prefer to ignore haters. |
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Grey-Zone said: KatsutoSaki said: Anime YouTubers are worthless pieces of shit. Almost all of their videos make no sense. Using clickbait titles, and baseless crap in their videos, they declare what's the worst and what's not. Their views on a specific trope or a show is irrelevant af (to me at least). If people are gonna follow them, without even giving it a thought and saying they are right. And taking their words as facts. Then so be it. You can't change someone who doesn't even have the capacity to think by themselves... So, no matter how much hate "some" people direct towards isekai. As long as it sells, it'll always prove them wrong. One particular instance of the sheer irrationality of the isekai hate was with a live-stream by a small time youtuber (just 3k subscribers) called "jojo talks too much" (who is also a big fan of Overlord) had a livestream discussing fall 2018 shows and when he went through the list he said he looks forward to Goblin Slayer because it looks good and is not isekai, but rather just fantasy. Then when he reached the slime isekai, he totally got triggered after reading the words "reincarnated into another" world that he started an incoherent rant, as if seeing just one more isekai would truly kill him (again, he is a fan of Overlord). And only after the live chat comments urged him to watch it because they said that it's one of the better isekai, did he finally, very very reluctantly, gave in. That really freaked me out a bit how much hatred he had for any "new and unknown" isekai, despite liking another isekai, i.e. Overlord. If you want to see, it's this video, the isekai rant in question is around the timestamp of 1:23:18. https://youtu.be/xuBI4QyJIoI?t=1h23m18s I stopped watching it at: https://youtu.be/xuBI4QyJIoI?t=5287 He seemed like an isekai hater to me, at least. His rant consisted of nothing but bullshit. It seemed so hypocritical to me, honestly... |
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KatsutoSaki said: Bit harsh. Most YouTubers with opinions on anything have people who feel this way, it's not AniTubers. Clickbait titles and thumbnails are a sure thing for any channel where YouTube is their sole source of income. They aren't dealing in absolutes they're stating their opinion, which should go without saying. I personally enjoy extremes on both sides, because anything in the middle to me is boring. MauLer, E;R, and The Dishonoured Wolf are good examples of these extremes. It's entertaining. Even if you look at CinemaSins video on themselves, it's just a form of entertainment.Grey-Zone said: I specifically saw quite a few anime youtubers on their "what i watch in season X 201X" videos dismiss any isekai instantly as trash regardless of anything. My guess is that one of the big anime youtubers once made a video ranting about how terrible isekai are which caused many others to copy paste that behaviour and it influenced a lot of the Western anime community. Anime YouTubers are worthless pieces of shit. Almost all of their videos make no sense. Using clickbait titles, and baseless crap in their videos, they declare what's the worst and what's not. Their views on a specific trope or a show is irrelevant af (to me at least). If people are gonna follow them, without even giving it a thought and saying they are right. And taking their words as facts. Then so be it. You can't change someone who doesn't even have the capacity to think by themselves... So, no matter how much hate "some" people direct towards isekai. As long as it sells, it'll always prove them wrong. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| @FMmatron maybe you want to explain.. |
| No action and no plot. Characters don't really do anything but spend their daily lives. |
| Numbuh 3, you've got to get off the couch, you cannot sit in that tree house, girl you like Rainbow Monkeys so grab your little shit and then swing! Hand tracks be tracking me to different doorways. In a maze, and I don't know what to do. Guaranteed though, Ima find the emeralds. |
| NEET MC who becomes a chick magnet. It's terrible. And they're always in a fantasy RPG. As if other video games don't exist. Akabane_Atalai said: this is b'coz there are "haters" in this world, they hate Isekai smartphones b'coz the main character has many wives ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) , just that Isekai Smartphone has the "Isekai Checklist" open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it. |
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| Can't say I hate it... but I don't find myself watch them much. There's no special reason for that. |
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| I think its more just the over-saturation of them as of late. it seems like the anime scene is almost completely dominated by isekai these days, so its getting a bit tiresome. there are always going to be a few good ones coming out, but since there are so many these days that most of them are just mediocre or bad, because its just the trend right now. |
| it's mostly just the hate and when smartphone blahblah anime came they had a reason to a few bad apples ruin the bunch and when a raging westerner had a reason. they scream with all their might |
| I would say most of them are pretty repetitive when it comes to plot and characters (except few). Also most Isekai have OP MC or a wimpy one usually surrounded by his harem which further makes it unwatchable. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Grey-Zone said: you say that, but we both know its always the same kind of magical world. There is always magic, elfs, animal girls, a "medieval" setting etc.Comander-07 said: the same reason why every magic highschool battle anime was bad till proven otherwise - they are everywhere. Its the same over and over again. And there is no plot, so they fill that gap with ecchi and harem. Also its better to be sceptical and get positively surprised than the other way around A fair point, but isekai branches off into different directions much more since the author can write a whole unique world with barely any limitations. Compared to that, magic highschool is largely centered around some magic academy with school stuff and battle tournements, which is much more restrictive. Of course it comes down to the author in the end. The only magic highschool anime I consider good or at least watchable are Rakudai kishi no cavalry and Mahouka. The most unique ones recently are youjo senki (which of course also has magic) and ... going further back Inuyasha. I agree with your choice of magic highschool anime, same for me. And I think overall isekai is a bit better than the magic high setting, but most are low effort, uninspired harem ecchi series. My problem with isekai is, there is no need for it to be isekai. Just be a straight and proper adventure. Like bahamut. No reason for them to get transported there. Or for them to get transported there while loosing their memory which effectively is the same as starting there. Like grimgar of the ashes. Oh aside from the obvious RPG level mechanic. Which we totally need. Overall its not inherently better or worse than other anime, but with an atleast interesting setting (because come on fantasy worl has more to offer than your highschool romcom) its disappointing even more how much potential is wasted. the mostn outstanding isekai of recent years were probably Re:Zero and Youjo Senki. The rest is as forgettable as every other seasonal anime. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
Aslat24 said: When there is three shows a season with the words isekai in the title people will grow tired of them. I think there may be more to this than people realise. In the grand scheme of things, isekai are pretty rare compared to other settings, and certainly far from "saturated", let alone "oversaturated", but the frequency with which the word appears in the title, and the tendency of certain people to latch onto the one word they recognise in a title, gives the illusion that they're more common than they actually are. Just imagine the backlash if the word "koukou" were in the majority of anime with highschool settings... |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
YorukaWaifu said: Stripes said: NEET MC who becomes a chick magnet. It's terrible. And they're always in a fantasy RPG. As if other video games don't exist. Isekai Smartphone has the "Isekai Checklist" open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it. And Boku no Hero has the "Battle-shounen Checklist" open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it. Is this the smartest thing you were able to come up with or did you leave your comebacks at home with your mother? |
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Stripes said: YorukaWaifu said: And Boku no Hero has the "Battle-shounen Checklist" open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it. Is this the smartest thing you were able to come up with or did you leave your comebacks at home with your mother? Well, what you said before also comprised of bullshit. So, it's rather hypocritical to criticize him over what he said... |
KatsutoSakiSep 20, 2018 11:06 AM
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Stripes said: YorukaWaifu said: And Boku no Hero has the "Battle-shounen Checklist" open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it. Is this the smartest thing you were able to come up with or did you leave your comebacks at home with your mother? it really kind of is as smart as the comment you made before honestly |
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YorukaWaifu said: Stripes said: Is this the smartest thing you were able to come up with or did you leave your comebacks at home with your mother? It's as smart as the comment you've post before. Bringing up a series I like vs the one the thread topics about? It's cheap. Wouldn't have even brought it up if it wasn't my forum set. Pathetic. |
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Stripes said: Bringing up a series I like vs the one the thread topics about? It's cheap. Wouldn't have even brought it up if it wasn't my forum set. Pathetic. I kind of see where it extends from; you're taking a series and criticizing it for basically being laden in what's perceived as common tropes and establishments, while having a forum set for a series that's often said to be the same in its field to a large degree. Except in one case, you're clearly asserting it as a negative on a fundamental level, whereas your forum set kind of communicates your appreciation for the other series with the same reputation. Thing is, I normally wouldn't get involved in this since I don't see myself as knowledgeable or experienced enough with battle shounen to assess how "standard and tropey" BnHA is - or at least not on a level I'm comfortable with - but, y'know, that can go right out the window and I'll just toy around with what I've heard secondhand too, whenever I can look at the list of things you've watched and pretty clearly see you haven't even watched Smartphone (as well as less isekai than I've seen battle shounen, actually) yet you've deemed yourself knowledgeable enough on it to make such an assertion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So I'll just plunge down to that level myself since I've seen more than a few people ascribe such things to BnHA and roll with it. "Boku no Hero has the Battle-shounen Checklist open in another tab and proceeds to do everything on it." Fuck being reasonable and establishing a solid basis for an opinion, whenever we can just blatantly reiterate things from others and then get defensive and dismissive whenever the topic shifts to something that we like and can be said to be in a similar boat on this very basic and narrow way of looking at these things, am I right? Welcome to what's a great example of everything wrong with isekai discussion, I suppose. You pretty much have illustrated everything people who have been critical of the way isekai is largely being criticized and assessed in this thread pretty goddamn well, I must say. So I feel comfortable with the discussion shifting to other works outside of the genre that are largely ascribed a level of tropey-ness to them in contexts like this, given how much discussion was had in the thread earlier about pretty much this exact same shit. |
ManabanSep 20, 2018 11:28 AM
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Stripes said: Bringing up a series I like vs the one the thread topics about? It's cheap. Wouldn't have even brought it up if it wasn't my forum set. Pathetic. The same goes for your reply. Yours was even "cheaper" than his. Since what you did was, basically, generalize the shit out of the isekai tropes. While what he said isn't true either, but still better than yours since BnHA does have slight things in common. No, even without your forum set, he would've said that. So, you're still wrong. |
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Grey-Zone said: (Please note that I intentionally don't mention SAO, because that's the Death Game VRMMORPG subgenre and not the isekai subgenre) I noticed that recently some people, specifically the "isekai haters", have had this unexplainable grudge that makes them dismiss any series that has the words "reincarnated into another world", "transported into another world" or "summoned into another world" in the synopsis. But actually there aren't that many "bad kinds" of isekai out there. Infact there are more good ones. Bad isekai: - Isekai smartphone (worst of the worst cliché, the main "culprit" behind the isekai hate) - Death March (although the source material is good, it's among the slowest-paced isekai in existence, the anime adaptation had many issues and adapted the weakest part of the series) - Hyakuren something something Valkyria (similar problems to Isekai smartphone) That's it. Are people so hateful, just because of these 3? I mean take a look at isekai that got a fairly positive reception in the Western anime community: - Re:Zero - Overlord - Konosuba - Youjo Senki - Log Horizon So how come some people assume that every new upcoming isekai will be a bad "harem ecchi full of bad cliché" even when those genres aren't listed in the series description on MAL or other anime seasonal charts? Discuss! Well its probably because it got too popular and people started getting bored of it |
| A certain lad once told me: (Spoiler'd because it's kinda rude) Enough people use media as a method to escape life for a bit. Me included. I adore isekai for all the right wrong reasons. Suppose it's just a sensitive topic to some. But eh what I do with my life is my business... |
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| I don't hate them, but I dislike how similar their premise/setting feel. It's basically a fantasy anime with a constraint on how the story starts(transported to another world). Loved Juuni Kokuki though, plus I haven't watched many, so hopefully there're some other gems out there. Also, I don't know why isekai seems to go hand in hand with OP MC, but that's lame. |
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Hatred said: this thread has been made so many times I've have only really posted on the forums for a month or so, and I've already seen just about every thread, seen on the front pages, posted at least three different times. People have something on their minds, and instead of looking, they just create a new topic. I read them on the off chance someone says something unique. But that's rare because it appears most on here don't really discuss anything. Threads are dominated by one off opinions or trolls. |
Leafx42Sep 20, 2018 4:57 PM
| 1 word FANSERVICE! The truth is tough as vegetables :v |
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| Hey, Death March wasn't that bad. I at least finished that one, unlike Re:Zero & Konosuba that I dropped after 1 episode. |
| I would conisder SAO a honorary isekai and I think the same can be applied to some RPG-based anime. People might hate it because it´s always the same excuse: some teen guy transported to another world (some accident might be implied) and gets superpowers, or a harem. Isekai it´s not the problem, but authors not being creative enough with isekai. I still think stuff like Rezero are great, but its a type of story I probably dont want to see the whole time nevertheless, you have more creative options like Youjo Senki or Digimon 1st season. I recently started reading Ascendance of a bookworm wich has a different take on isekai. Parodies can also work like Ride-on king manga, those who hunt elves and even konosuba |
MichaelJacksonSep 20, 2018 5:51 PM
| :v |
| Part of it is that isekai just sorta exploded in availability. Part of it is that isekai series had a bad habit of being irritatingly explicit about their basic premise in their title, making it really seem like the only raison d'etre of a given series was to make an isekai series with basic premise idea number n+1. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I stopped reading when the OP tried to make the argument that SAO isnt an Isekai.... ??? Anyway, IMO, the reason for the heavy division between series that the general community thinks is a "good isekai" vs "bad isekai" has to do with the purpose of the show. If the show is an isekai just for the sake of being an isekai; if the characters are self-inserts or bland as soggy crackers; or if the story has a general or vague direction that is unable to distinguish itself from other Isekai -- then it will probably be widely disliked by the community. "Bad" isekai usually only have like one gimmick that makes it "different" from anything else. In this isekai, MC has a smartphone. In that isekai, MC is stuck in a death game. Isekai that are generally considered "good" at least have some purpose beyond just having an escapist setting. Log Horizon is a show about trying to organize and build a new society. Overlord, I hardly even consider an isekai; it doesnt beat you over the head with the fact that the MC is "from a different world." And Overlord is about a group of badasses who seek world domination in unfamiliar territory. In Re:Zero, the "isekai" factor is not the main plot point either, the main plot device is the time travel. Its basically the same story as Steins;Gate, but set in an isekai. Also, SAO was NOT bad BECAUSE it was an isekai. SAO was bad because the story was just so bad. I'll even go on the record and say SAO had the potential to be a "good isekai" if only the first half had better pacing, and if the second half hadnt fallen down the sewer immediately. |
m-i-c-h-a-e-lSep 20, 2018 6:08 PM
~my list
| Cannnot speak for others but my brother would always say many females are just bad in Isekai |
Gift by Mimurona |
| Probably because Isekai's don't do much. Most are cash grabs. I enjoy a few though. |
| "This little girl, who's not even half my size... taught me that tears can flow even from these silver eyes." - Teresa |
| i think a lot of hate has to deal with mc being transported to a fantasy setting every single time. isekai just means transported to new world; there is no specific clause forcing it to be a fantasy setting every time. a sci-fi one, or heck even transported to a different part of the same earth would be more refreshing |
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| I like isekai as a concept, but I like very few of the so-called isekai. (and I don't count Konosuba as one, since it's a satire and to do it the disservice of calling it 'isekai' implies the trope is being played straight) 1. reincarnated into another jrpg world. what grinds my gears is not even having the decency to be a generic fantasy world, just a generic jrpg world with explicit jrpg mechanics. excuse me what the fuck? Vision of Escaflowne has a unique setting for its fantasy world, it's instantly recognizable, blends shoujo and mecha genres and has interesting concepts, and it's an actual world, not a goddamn game. 2. these are mostly transparent egoist power trip storylines, with a dude getting sex slave harems in Ragnarok and How not to summon a demon lord, ramping up to the level of the Japanese ethnostate as the JSDF slaughters indigenous fighters in GATE like a gang of British tommies with Maxim guns in Africa. Re:Zero is better than average because it subverts the trope of the superman protagonist, and Subaru's not even very likeable (compared to the bland good guy Japanese teen boy cutouts the viewer is meant to self-insert with, I suppose). RedPlaty said: i think a lot of hate has to deal with mc being transported to a fantasy setting every single time. isekai just means transported to new world; there is no specific clause forcing it to be a fantasy setting every time. a sci-fi one, or heck even transported to a different part of the same earth would be more refreshing +1 The number of isekai where the transport is to a sci-fi setting can probably be counted on less than 1 hand. |
glassknucklesSep 20, 2018 6:38 PM
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