| This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for quite a long time. Now, I understand in the recent years most of the shows tend to be from 11 to 13 episodes in duration, which is, naturally, dictated by the rules of the industry that have greatly changed due to the development of the society: people have gotten pickier (because the industry is overwhelmed with content) in general and, speaking for myself as a representative of the generation Z (millennials), their attention span has gotten shorter (I don’t know why but not only me but also the majority of my acquaintances of the same age often times just can’t concentrate on one thing for a long time, while the older generation, such as our parents, have no particular problem with that), which, once again, is one of the side effects of the quick-paced worldwide digital evolution. Also, by making short shows the broadcasters perform a “test for echo”, so to speak, in order to assess the society’s response to a certain show and then decide whether it’s worth it or not to continue the serialization. Anyway, I didn’t come here to discuss about sociology — all I want to say is that they sure have their reasons for making short shows (half a season). On the other hand, I’m not really sure if that’s actually enough for a full-fledged story. Of course, it depends on many factors, such as the complexity of the story, the original length, the number of subplots etc., but what you see often times nowadays is that a decent number of shows end either on a cliffhanger, or — what’s even worse — in the middle of nowhere and never get a new season, so the only way to know what happens next is to refer to the original material (manga or light novel/full-sized novel). The only kind of shows that have a proper beginning and a proper ending are either anime originals, or super popular titles that will get a continuation for sure just because of their popularity. When I take a look at some older shows, almost every time I notice that they have a full season (over 20 episodes), which is, well… Diabolical… That is if the show’s boring in the first place, because I simply can’t bring myself to sit through all of that. But if the story is investing and catches me, then it’s absolutely great, since they have much more room for paying attention to detail and adapting several arcs within one season. But that’s just my opinion. So, what do you think? Is the half-season format really optimal or is it not so good? |
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| If a film can convey its story across in 1 hour and half then 11 episodes of 22 minutes each are more than enough because it's about 4 hours of runtime. |
tchitchouan said: If a film can convey its story across in 1 hour and half then 11 episodes of 22 minutes each are more than enough because it's about 4 hours of runtime. Right, that works for a movie, but what about a series? If we’re talking about animated movies, then they also have a proper beginning and an ending (Promare, Hello World, Weathering with You etc(. |
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| Yes. 10-13 episodes is more than enough to tell a one-cour story. I actually think that animes of one-cour should be max 10 episodes, to cut out all the pointless fluff that gets added to extend it to 12-13 episodes. |
| Yes, why not? It all depends on who's writing the anime and the production team. Masaki Yuasa has several excellent anime with just 1 cour, like Ping Pong, Kaiba, Devilman, The Tatami Galaxy, and a few more. I prefer 1 or 2 cour; most anime don't need more than that to tell their stories. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Kafka, Fu Xuan, Jingliu, Topaz and Huohuo. |
| A common misconception is believing that the old long running format was better because more episodes = complete adaptation, but that only applied if the source material was already finished when the anime started airing. In most cases, the long running format meant following the source material until the anime caught up to it, then some anime original fillers, then the anime adaptation would stop at some point (unless we're talking about the few extremely popular anime like Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon, but they're in the minority by definition) and it will be left incomplete, with no chance of getting a sequel years later. Unlike nowadays when you can get a sequel several years later, in the past once a project was closed, it was over; why make a sequel just for those who were already fans of the franchise, when you can do something new for everyone? I don't miss the old days at all. Regarding the main question, are 11-13 episodes enough for a full-fledged story? Sure, if the manga is short enough (e.g. Ping Pong, Kuzu no Honkai, Happy Sugar Life, Taishou Otome Otogibanashi). |
| This is a problem I seen creep in the 2000's, it's gotten worse, but at the same time, there have been short season anime that do spectacular things with 12-13 eps, and even 10. Made in Abyss S1 and S2 Cyberpunk Edgerunners Demon Slayer Red Disctrict Arc One Punch Man S1 (although I realize there is not much to a story there, it's good nontheless) Anime that desperately needed 13 more episodes were: Saikano Vivy Houseki no Kuni Magica Madoka Dorohedoro Can these short anime go without the extra 12/13 eps? Sure, but I believe at least these 5 anime likely become exceptional anime if they use a proper 24-26 episode standard and flesh out the story. Cours need to go though, I'm so sick of this trend. |
| For me i'm sort of mixed on this as i love shorter and/or longer anime. This year i've seen plenty of shows that worked well with it's short amount of episodes such as "Flip Flappers", "Kakushigoto", "Orange", and "Hellsing Ultimate" that works well with only having a small amount of episodes. It just depends on how the writers can work with a story that has 11-13 episodes to it's name. |
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| THey are but during the end its kinda hard to understad |
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| Depends on the scale of the story and the management of time and pacing. |
| Yes, Yorimoi did a good job in this aspect. |
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| I personally appreciate when there's brevity. |
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| I believe it is enough. I like stories simple and to the point. A 90 minute movie can tell a complete story and that's equal to about four episodes. A lot of shows that are 50 episodes could really be condensed to under half that and not miss out on much. I am trying to write a story now that is barely 20,000 words that could probably be adapted to a 12 episode format, or even a stand-alone movie. It tells a complete story but unfortunately it seems unless you can get to at least 40,000 words it's hard to get it published and I don't want to pad it with unnecessary fluff. |
| I mean yeah, I love death parade and that's a complete show with only one cour. And I don't think it would have work if it was less or more than that. |
Rest in Piece, Miura. |
| Really depends on the execution, for example Madoka magica did a really good job on this.(if only considering the tv show) |
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| I gave SEL a 10 so I am legally obligated to say yes. I think it is plenty of time depending on the scope, plot, and story. FLCL has six episodes and is considered a tightly wrapped up package by everyone except by the people who keep forcing its corpse to dance... |
SignsOfSuicideNov 3, 2023 9:21 PM
| Don't let others ruin things for you. Even if a toxic fan pisses in your cereal, you could just get another bowl of cereal. My Anime List - My Manga List |
| The problem is when you have too much source material for 1 cour, but not enough for 2 cours. So your choices are to either cut out important stuff, or stretch it out longer than it should be, since it doesn't seem like anyone ever wants to do a "half-cour". |
| It depends on the show and its story. |
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| Take Vivy: Fluorite Eye's Song for an example |
| yes it is enough. if it is a manga adaptations many times it is rushed but if the manga is not that long then the whole story can be satisfyingly be wrapped in 12 episodes. i remember anohana and plastic memories being like this. nothing rushed, perfect and satisfying conclusion in less than 13 episodes. then there's angle beats and charolotte which could have made use of extra episode or two to make everything not feel rushed. yeah also erased did a great job in 12 episodes as well, satisfying conclusion with no rush for that too. cyberpunk too, with this it didn't even feel like just 10 episodes felt way more than that. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
| Although I have very rarely seen it happen, it's possible. Devilman Crybaby managed to do it in 10 episodes. Same with Violet Evergarden |
| If I had to choose between One Piece and a girlfriend...I think I'll go with One Piece |
| I prefer the 24 episode format. For me, one of anime's main appeals (aside from the GIRLS, of course!) is the non-episodic story structure. single cour shows usually have rushed endings or they don't really have an ending at all. but 24 episodes is plenty of time for character development AND story. |
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| Personally, I don't think so. Many animes try to have a complex story and include the backstory of characters as well as lore about the world in which they're set in, as you'd expect them to do, since that makes the whole thing make more sense and gives the story a much greater depth. However, each episode is just 20~ minutes of content, and in that time you can only show and tell so much. When an anime doesn't have any particularly big focus on story and is more of a casual thing, something like Tamako Market, then 11-13 episodes are generally fine, that way you avoid having filler episodes for an otherwise short and easily resolvable story. However, when you try to do something more deep, involving a lot of characters and a lot of concept, there is simply no way you can do that in 12 episodes or so; Angel Beats! for instance had to pack all of its lore and story into 13 episodes, and everything ends up feeling very clogged and like it happens too fast, many of the characters' background are pretty much ignored, which is funny since they end up focusing a lot more on a few supporting characters that show up later in the anime, while other characters that are there from the beginning kind of get ignored. Then, there is the worst-case scenario: the plot making no sense or being outright bad due to all of it having to be put into a few episodes. Imagine if the whole of Clannad had to be fitted into 12 episodes; it would have been pretty mild of an anime. This is exactly the issue with Kamisama ni Natta Hi; it begins too casually then the plot gets extremely rushed, and while we can argue that this is just plainly bad writing (many of the early episodes are basically just fillers), I am sure that had the anime lasted 22-episodes, it could have been much better. I guess the TL;DR is: if anime too casual = yes, but if anime too deep and plot-heavy = no. |
| Pretend there's something flashy and cool here. |
| I believe most of the time the 12 episodes season is more of a marketing tool if you will, a way to incentivize you to buy the original work because you want to know 'what happens next'. If you're lucky the anime might end at a point in the story that seems like a natural stopping point, but it's not always the case, far from that. That said I have seen a few series (like Soul Eater Not for example) which I believe adapted most of their material source and got the job done (finished the story) in about 12 episodes: of course it's only possible when the original manga/novel is really short in the first place. Any manga/novel that is not 'short' you're only going to have part of it adapted in general because nowadays most shows don't get a second season, and so it might leave you with a feeling of not being 'full-fledged' or 'unfinished'. When you start to consider shows that got two (12 episodes) seasons you automatically have more of them who got 'finished' (like Nyaruko-san for example), and so on with three sasons, four seasons,... Of course, an important thing to consider is that there also plenty of shows wich adapt from a manga/novel that is nowhere being close to being over in the first place (I can think of plenty of animes which adapted from mangas/novels that were not even at their half-way point at the time). From there, it's only natural that many animes might leave you the feeling of being 'unfinished'. Personally, I believe whether a story feels finished or full-fledged also depends a lot on the genre: sol stories are very episodic by nature so a sol anime adapting only an handful of a very long sol manga series is really not a problem, while a plot-driven mystery/action manga adaptation might leave you a bit frustrated at the end of the anime because you feel like there is so much more to the story. |
MeguSae38Nov 4, 2023 1:46 AM
| If all episodes are good, of course I want more episodes. But most stories benefit from keeping it simple and condensed. Spy x Family will run for oh so many seasons dragging out the main conflict until you forget it whereas something like Buddy Daddies had its plot, told it and finished it within 12 episodes. And it's funny because even this one drags on, especially in the beginning. You can tell a good story in 9 episodes and still have enough time for beach episodes and whatever else explores just the characters before the finale is set up. But I just like following a strong story and seeing it end. If you want to drag it out to multiple seasons, do multiple stories. |
| Depend on the genre. A drama or SOL series could work as a short anime. Action shows on the other hand could have way more episodes. |
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| Yes if its done right. With not much fillers, and if its properly written. But I think its more effective for animes with simpler plot |
| It really depends how much the world is getting expanded once the show starts and then you gotta count in all the side plot points, if a show can answer all that in proper manner fast then something like 12 episodes is good to go. |
| I've seen many light-novel based shows which decide to go untraditionally and don't do 3-4 episodes per volume, instead doing more, like maybe 5 or 6 but danmachi did 11 episodes for its volume 14. This is a great way to adapt everything and to cut little, but is that truly the best experience for the anime watchers? I feel like this strategy is kind of draggy. When it comes to storyboarding, I feel like the best way to pace it is when you keep the watcher on the edge of their seat majority of the episode and if some of the extra chunk of the story gets in the way, cut it if it's not necessary such as some moments in flashbacks or some dialogue. |
| I've been saying for a long time now that the 11 - 13 episode formula which has become popularized in recent times (regrettably, in my view) is enough for Slice of Life - especially iyashikei Slice of Life series. Because they can kind of start off and leave off at any random points in a cross-section of the life/lives which are being showcased that they choose to, without necessarily anything being lost. As well as super methodical and deliberately crafted, dense and intricately written and arranged series which lean more toward the arthouse or experimental/avant-garde side, of the sort where the writer and/or auteur director meticulously plans out a labyrinthine spectacular from the outset where practically every single scene and shot is well thought-out, utilized, and made the most of. Series like Serial Experiments Lain, Haibane Renmei, Kaiba, etc. For the average more straightforward/classically-told garden variety drama, adventure, action, mystery, Sci-Fi, fantasy, etc. series, no, I would say absolutely not. Most come off feeling noticeably and detrimentally super rushed to me; detrimental to the extreme in some cases. There's been many occasions where that constrictive runtime and the poor writing choices made manifest by its nature definitely caused me to have a much lower opinion and dock one or more points off a score if rating/evaluating the series. And even if they are ones which I end up giving higher ratings to like a 7/10 or even an 8, that's only a testament to how much otherwise good they had to offer, as it was done so in spite of their limiting runtimes and breathing space. Which, let's be clear, is a completely artificially self-imposed restriction. One which it's incredibly easy to imagine how many series could be better, freer, and more beautiful than ever without. I'm actually quite pleased to see a reasonable number of recent series which came out this year and which I'm also watching as of late return to a preferable 24 - 26 episode format (or somewhere around that episode count) - The Apothecary Diaries, Dark Gathering, Helck, Sousou no Frieren, etc. It's much more suitable for series like these. For series which are even more rich and have the potential to go even more in-depth, and, obviously, if I'm enjoying them, I would readily welcome even far longer than that, but at least the two cour or so 24 - 26 episode ones, in line with how more anime series used to be back in the day, don't have to entirely skip or hastily breeze through nearly as much by comparison. |
WatchTillTandavaNov 5, 2023 1:03 AM
| Yeah, of course it is. Movies can tell full stories and they're even shorter. Most one cours don't tell full stories because they're adapted from longer manga and so either only adapt the first bit or have to compress the story down to something unsatisfactory, but originals and anime adapted from shorter manga can tell a proper story in their runtime. |
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| "Are 11-13 episodes enough for a full-fledged story?" It depends on how much ideas the authors had...you can tell a complete story in 3 minutes or even shorter. If the ideas fit the format you can totally tell such story. For example Akudama Drive which even drags a little, works fine with its 12 episodes. |
alshuNov 6, 2023 12:02 AM
| To be honest, I kinda missed the day when anime was 26-27 (and to some extent, 30+) episodes long. I mean I'm watching retro/older anime that the episodes are longer then 13 are usually more fleshed out and can do better conclusion on a longer term then a short one. I stumbled upon a Reddit thread made back in 2014 yesterday if there are anime that would benefit from having 100+ episodes and I seem to agree with most of these. I just finished watching Wotakoi yesterday and despite being 11 episodes long, I felt like more stuff from the manga could've been adapted into the anime, so even though I gave the anime an 8 on my scoring, I still feel like the anime could've been a lot better if more episodes were made. So yeah, there's a big pluses for anime to have more episode beyond the 11-13 episodes order. That's why I really missed the day when anime was 26 to 32 (maybe 35) episodes long. Hell, I'm watching older anime and I was impressed to see anime as long as 40, 55, or even 100 episodes long. Can we please bring back 26-32/35 episodes long anime, they can flesh out the story better then 11-13 episodes. |
| 4 hours of runtime is plenty enough to tell a full story. Is it enough to tell a full story adapted from a manga? Maybe not. |
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| it's absolutely enough. a good story isn't dependant on the number of episodes there are. |
| To tell a story, yes. But i just feel like there's too many cuts and removals. |
| My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine. |
| 1. great films exist and they are even shorter 2. yes obviously you can tell a full decently complex story with many subplots in 12 episodes: Have you not seen odd taxi? thats the biggest example in terms of narative complexity, but also, shows like: Akudama drive, Sonny boy, Death parade, Mars red, Id:invaded, pet, ACCA 13, Akiba maid war, cyberpunk edge runner, deca dence, vivy, ping pong the animation, tatami galaxy, and so many more all tell a complete story. |
| Also available at: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Why You Should Watch Akudama Drive: https://youtu.be/Yw0r52wRjgA An AMV I that I spend way too much time on: A Love Letter To Anime「AMV」: https://youtu.be/YQyqxFM2m9Q My referral code to a website/app that gives you free money (a few cents a day) by using a few megabytes of your internet for file sharing. We both get a bonus if you use my link: https://r.honeygain.me/ARSHIA7942 |
| There is no standard for a "full fledged story". There are full fledged stories than can be told in 3 minutes. The real question is whether 13 short episodes are enough to tell a story that took hundreds of pages to tell in comic book format. Then the answer is no most of the time. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Yes, if the source work is short and finished. If it is long and isn't finished, then certainly not. |
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| yes obviously since a 1 cour show is equal to 2 movies and that is enough |
| It depends on the story. I argue many anime do not even need 11-13 episodes. That number is something that is seemingly brought on by standardization for convenient scheduling, not as a result of purely creative decisions. |
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| It's not so much about whether they're capable of executing a complete, well-rounded story or not (because technically they can) but instead more about whether they are able to leave enough of a long-lasting impression or develop enough of an emotional impact in the viewer as much as longer stories do. It's a fact of human nature that the more you interact or the more time you get to spend with something/someone, the more the emotional bonds you get to develop toward it strengthen, so in that sense shorter stories do have it harder than longer ones when it comes for this second (and much more important) story-telling objective. |
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