| I think it worked quite well in Rurouni Kenshin (Samurai X)... the man who killed so many decided he'd taken to much life. He had enough of it. So you see the struggles. And who decided everyone should be killed? Did anyone ever hear of prison (and in some cases, prison is relevant). For example, Kuroshitsuji Book of Circus felt too cruel as he could just make them arrested, especially when you know they didn't to it from their own free will. |
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| I understand your hate but I also completely disagree. The problem isn't the act of not killing but the way it's delt with, the examples you've been giving generally come from stories where the writting really isn't their strong suit. In these stories it feels like the author just added that to the story just because he felt like it but is never really going to do anything with it. Whereas in cases where it's actually a part of the story it has the potential of being one of the most griping story arc in the entire story. A good example of that is monster, watching tenma's struggle to kill or not kill the monster is just fascinating and he himself realizing and seeing the consequences of not killing him is just as great. I got so invested into it that even knowing how cruel the monster is I was always routing for him not to do it and to stick to his principles to the very end. |
Maneki-Mew said: Dave_Adrian said: Have you seen The Dark Knight tho? If Batman killed the Joker (in the scene where he was using his bike and had the chance to run the Joker over) I'm positive that a lot of people would still be alive... But hey, The Dark Knight is still a really great movie 10/10 He is somehow the most annoying superhero to me, because... I don't know, his whole character seems so unnatural to appear cool. (I'm very sorry, don't hate on me. I'm going to hide somewhere.) It didn't make sense, by letting the Joker live, he brought much more pain to the people there. But okay, I only know these movies and that cartoon movie with Harley Quinn, so I don't know the whole universe there. Batman not killing is more of a struggle against himself than anything else. He has contemplated killing the joker and many other criminals on many occasion and actually almost did it in a quite recent comic before being stopped by the joker himself. He is someone who always sees the worst of humanity, he believes that if he ever cross that line and take a life he might end up as bad as those he has been fighting if not even worse which actually did happen to other heros like superman in some alternate timelines. Just like they say stare too long into the abyss and it will stare back at you, that's in his own words the fear he lives with. Ofc a blockbuster movie wouldn't have enough time to delve too much into this. |
| Nah not really, because i don't relate to psychopath loving murderer |
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| No because I appreciate character who uphold their own moral code. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
| No, because for once is more realistic and one can relate much more. I know that anime is a creative medium where looking for realism is kind of an oxymore, but world building realism is where one suspends belief more easily, but if you present to me characters that have the appearance and act like humans, then I want to see a certain degree of realism in that and a character that had a normal life up until the point where his or her moral code gets challenged I don't expect him to lose it and kill immediately... Plus having that kind of plot could potentially create a lot of interesting developments in the plot itself by avoiding to kill enemies. |
| If the story the main character is in tries to appeal more into the mature audience, I do agree that there's no sense in making a I-will-not-kill-no-matter-what trope MC. However, this rarely happens anyway. The ones more affected are those of the shounen (and sometimes even shoujo) tag, and I think they have justifiable reasons for doing so. 1. Introducing the act of killing to kids younger than 18 years old runs the risk of backlash from parents, guardians, and youth activists. Remember that anime and manga are still forms of media, and they can easily influence the behavior of children. So why are action scenes where beating each other up is allowed? Don't they tolerate violence? In a sense they do, but the fight scenes that are being shown in shounen/shoujo shows needs at least decades worth of training to imitate in real life. 2. Delving deeper into the psyche of killing isn't suited for the target audience. Shounen and shoujo are more focused in emotion, rather than psychology. Do you think "understanding murder" attracts young people? I don't think so. |
| sup |
| not too bothered by that but i'm much more annoyed by "I want to end the world for no apparent reason" antagonists lol |
Ajinumoto said: Yeah, i hate that too because it doesn't make sense . It can make sense, if properly contextualized. A policeman or someone in a similar role refusing to kill perpetrators and instead doing everything they can to catch them alive to bring them to justice, for example, makes sense since that's how most police forces around the world try to operate. |
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| you mean those shitty annoying uninteresting characters with a manichean dogmatic naive idealistic and stupid view of things(tokyo ghoul[at the begining]island,mirrai nikki) that often spoil a whole series because of the lazyness of the author to make a good protagonist(kingdoms, index, liar game) if they don't "just" make it worse and it's still watchable/good in rare ocasions(MHA, naruto, assassination classroom), those characters I say who are made because the avegare watcher is either dumb or a child and making an unrealistic manichean (and immature, better for the kids again) character will be more likely to gather a few readers and make your manga survive instead of taking the risk of creating a REALY interesting protagonist like the best have(berserk, vinland saga, psycho pass, LOGtH) and make a truly good story? yes, I know these characters too. one of the few good things about them is that you can easily spot one in, say, less than 30 secondes, saving you from wondering"is this a good anime?", saving you from wondering if you should give it further chance, meaning you'll know immediately that no, it's not a good anime, and that yes, you should drop it. |
Tuvokfan said: I'm not. It's certainly not an invalid moral stance for one to have, and also not an uncommon one in real life either.Is anyone else bothered by the "I will not kill no matter what" main characters? Tuvokfan said: For what it's worth I think you're thinking specifically about action shows. Not just shows where action occurs, but shows where action is a focus. Never mind this got explained at the end of the postI truly despise these main characters and nearly always insta-drop shows that have these types of MC's. Here are my reasons. Tuvokfan said: For what it's worth, in many action shows with fantasy elements, humans are portrayed as far more durable than in real life, essentially to the point of "you can't actually guarantee death unless you coup-de-grace someone", which basically means as long as you don't hit any "weak points" you're fine. Does it put more constraints on the fight?, yes, but it's far more plausible than, say, real life and with guns.1. It means the main character is always holding back. No matter how intense the fight you always know that the main character is trying not to kill his enemy and this really kills the tension. 2. It breaks the immersion. There is no way it is possible to realistically "knock out" enemies reliably enough without seriously injuring or killing them. If someone is hell-bent on killing you, killing them is basically the only way to deal with it. 3. The moral logic of "I will not kill no matter what." is fundamentally flawed. By refusing to kill you are putting yourself at a massive disadvantage and endangering those you are protecting. For example by refusing to kill an obvious villain you are dooming many innocent people to their death. If you don't kill an enemy that could have been killed, anyone that said enemy kills afterward is your responsibility, it's a simple truth. Tuvokfan said: Well "I won't kill no matter what" is just a characterization trope, and like all tropes, interesting things can be done with it.4. The main reason I hate main characters like this is that it is just so boring to watch. In a good anime or piece of media in general, whether or not to kill someone is a HUGE choice and sets up moral dilemmas that add a lot of complexity to the story. It feels like when an author writes a main character that refuses to kill no matter what, it is completely cops out of this conflict. In American political terms it’s like someone voting either just democrat or just republican without even looking at who is running. It’s not good storytelling. In addition to this it slows down the pace of the story and a lot of times, because the final blow is never driven home the villains build up and clog up the narrative. I personally prefer a main character that gets the job done and does what he has to do in order to protect those he loves to some wishy washing self-contradicting MC with childish morals. Perhaps there might be two problems that you're having with it: 1. You feel that it sets up expectations in a certain way that make a story too predictable. 2. You don't feel that the trope is actually explored meaningfully but it's just slapped onto a character to make them look better, or for some other relatively shallow purpose. It's possible to set this up as characterization and then challenge the character to defend their position on this, in light of their experiences. That would put the trope in the spotlight. It's also possible to sorta sweep this trope under the rug, by setting up the fights so that the more practical option is to not kill the opponent. Both of these angles are pretty realistic takes on the trope, depending on how they're written. (Also, the analogy to the U.S. political system is a little flawed, because the two parties -- particularly the Republicans -- have become much more ideologically aligned, so more people are finding reason to vote straight-ticket, even for strategic policymaking reasons. However, this -- having at least one of the two major parties go off the deep end -- might actually be a bad thing for the United States. However, even this does not preclude omitting a vote for a particularly bad candidate of one's preferred party, such as one whose career is rife with corruption.) |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| It's a strong turn off when a character refuses to use their powers to harm others. So, yes, I agree it annoys me when I have a character that doesn't kill when they should |
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| It would be a breath of fresh air to see something else atleast. People thought that was gonna be shield hero, but forget that. Anyway. It depends on the show. If the show is despicable on it's own i'm gonna be bothered by such a cliché twist, however if the show is good I probably won't mind. |
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| Well that is just one of many reasons why I generally don't like battle shounens |
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| This is why I can't get into Batman. People say the manga and light novels are better though. |
| MAL: A community that thinks every anime is bad, but rates everything a 7/10. |
| I don't hate the idea, it's an idea that has been done well at times in other mediums. Anime just has the problem of poor execution. When talking about why Batman doesn't kill, people can create paragraphs upon paragraphs about why he doesn't, and why he never should. Regardless of whether you disagree about why he shouldn't kill, there's a debate to be had there, which is good. A shounen character, on the other hand? "I DON'T WANNA KILL BECAUSE I WANNA SAVE EVERYOOOOONE!!!!" just shows childishness, and there's absolutely no thought put into it. It's dumb, it's typical, it's not endearing, and it's boring. There are shows like FMA:B that have the main character not want to kill, but at least have some interesting conflict with that, and those are the very rare exception. |
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| That's why you have them Mikazuki eyes. Doesn't even let them finish their sentences. If it's someone like Banagher Links, I guess I can see why him wanting to not kill is understandable. This made his first kill to be incredibly moving. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
That was just comically bad writing. It was out-of-character for Naofumi to stop Raphtalia, and then go on preach to the fat nobleman pious garbage like "I hope this has taught you a lesson. Never do evil again." |
| All of it are sound arguments. While they may not be the worst kind of characters, it does ruin my enjoyment of the show these days. I'm better off seeing other characters kill the characters that don't want to kill. |
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| No, I'm not an edgy 15 year old. In all seriousness it is very much a case of, it depends™. |
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| Yes, it's irritating when the MC said "I will not kill no matter what." I love characters, who aren't afraid to kill characters. |
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| I personally like characters that doesn't kill anyone no matter what, but I can see why you don't like them and you do have a point. |
| In general, characters who refuse to kill other people are a good thing, because that's how normal people behave, and a show full of psychopaths is a bit niche. The problem comes when they try to make arse-backwards points about pacifism and have the world perform distortions in support those points. The way pacifism deals with aggression is by being a worldwide movement. The fact that it only works if it's everywhere is a feature, not a bug. But international co-operation between ordinary people to end the wars where they die because powerful people are having an argument in an anathema to those in control who keep their power in part by playing nationalisms against each other. So pacifism is discredited by making it into a fantasy thing pursued by one character which only works due to the distortions of fiction. Oh, but the primary problem with Batman is that he's a billionaire who beats up poor people. If he was a poor person who beats up criminal billionaires, he'd be a far better character. |
| Yeah I hate that type, the "Holier than thou" syndrome. I mean if your enemy kills your girlfriend, best friend, mother or father, it's only natural to kill him or those dear to him. If you kill you should be prepared to be killed. Villains are better characters because they understand that even if you kill it doesn't make you less human. Principals, ethics, boundaries and taboos are useless when a person's heart is in pain. If a person acts on his emotions and kills the one responsible that is a human act. The "if you kill him you will be the same as him" argument is irrelevant here, because it plays on a person's pride and ego, as in "I am better that him so I shouldn't lower myself to his level". God do I hate that high and might crap. |
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Mattinator95 said: Why can't there be an anime character like batsy Japan isn't so big on pretending a society containing horrific inequality is 'equal', so it doesn't need to treat fictional billionaires beating up poor people as heroes to square the circle and establish that poor people deserve to be poor and billionaires deserve to be billionaires. |
| I think it heavily depends on how it's done. This can be said about nearly anything, and I hope that mangaka will use this trait to prove a good point rather than just to follow what's trending in the shounen demographic. It's about the way it's done, not necessarily what it is on the surface. |
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| It depends on the series and how the character is written. One of my favorite characters Vash is a character who refuses to kill and that is made a plot point in the show. But the whole reason why it works in his case is because of how the show is written and how the world and characters react to said Vash's morals and how Vash's morals are always tested. Because you can get some good character drama out of it in some cases if done right. |
| "Even if there isn't a God or meaning behind life. That doesn't mean you can't create your own meaning and make the best out of life." |
| It depends on the situation. I think it's admirable to not want to kill anyone, but if a villain is about to murder your friends, then yeah, you have to stop them before that happens, no matter what, IMO. |
Bum Bum Dum Dum |
| Haven't ran into one in a while, but I hate the circumstances that come along with these characters. It's super frustrating when someone who really deserves to be killed, lives because mr/ms pussy wants to keep them alive. BUT sometimes these characters CAN turn around for the better. More often than not though, these guys always let the asshats live. The asshats who pretend to seek forgiviness and a second chance, but turn right back around and betray them. I guess it is alright to have the "I will not kill no matter what characters" because in truth, it's bad to kill even the worst of devils. Some people can't take that responsibility. Not to mention most anime characters are like 16. |
| woah there |
| Depends on the context. Edward Elric, for example, I feel is a great protagonist who refuses to take a life because it ties in with his ideals of never wishing to take a life after the terrible fate he and his brother endured. |
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| I think it's been done quite well in Vinland Saga, but there that character also annoys me sometimes. |
Dave_Adrian said: Tuvokfan said: Lol no I haven't. I probably would have been pissed, but whatever. I actually watched the original batman when I was a little kid and also I watched the first batman movie with my friend. Batman is cool and all but I am more of an anime guy. You... haven't... seen... The Dark Knight?!?!?!? THATS LIKE BLASPHEMY!!! GO LOG ON TO YO NETFLIX ACC AN WATCH THAT SHIT RIGHT NOW!! The dark knight is pretty good, but mostly because of Heath ledger tbh. |
| It's typical for anime with op mc lol |
Tuvokfan said: It depends how is done. For instance in Trigun is done pretty good.I truly despise these main characters and nearly always insta-drop shows that have these types of MC's. Here are my reasons. 1. It means the main character is always holding back. No matter how intense the fight you always know that the main character is trying not to kill his enemy and this really kills the tension. 2. It breaks the immersion. There is no way it is possible to realistically "knock out" enemies reliably enough without seriously injuring or killing them. If someone is hell-bent on killing you, killing them is basically the only way to deal with it. 3. The moral logic of "I will not kill no matter what." is fundamentally flawed. By refusing to kill you are putting yourself at a massive disadvantage and endangering those you are protecting. For example by refusing to kill an obvious villain you are dooming many innocent people to their death. If you don't kill an enemy that could have been killed, anyone that said enemy kills afterward is your responsibility, it's a simple truth. 4. The main reason I hate main characters like this is that it is just so boring to watch. In a good anime or piece of media in general, whether or not to kill someone is a HUGE choice and sets up moral dilemmas that add a lot of complexity to the story. It feels like when an author writes a main character that refuses to kill no matter what, it is completely cops out of this conflict. In American political terms it’s like someone voting either just democrat or just republican without even looking at who is running. It’s not good storytelling. In addition to this it slows down the pace of the story and a lot of times, because the final blow is never driven home the villains build up and clog up the narrative. I personally prefer a main character that gets the job done and does what he has to do in order to protect those he loves to some wishy washing self-contradicting MC with childish morals. However I do think exceptions must be made for lighthearted action shows like boku no hero academia, one piece, ext. These shows seemed to be more focused on adventure and being epic and are pursuing any kind of realism whatsoever so its fine. I am talking more about action shows that have a lot of characters dying. Do you agree with my frustrations or do you think I am being overly harsh? |
| I have never been a fond of such character as long as I can remember, but personally I don't have problem with that, sometimes I just let it pass if I find it annoying |
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