| ye i see the hate but i just dislike it, the only thing i hate about anime is the fucking overabundance of school settings lol and necessary evil or lesser evil things exist like the killing that the police/military are doing and heck even killing for the sake of self-defense although fiction like anime is not reality anyway so whatever lol |
| lol of course it's Shounen-ish amirite? |
| Oh 100% loathe it that shit is the worst. It's so stupid it's like they're trying to get a false sense of pride and accomplishment (EA would be proud) Worst case was Raphtalia from Shield Hero. Or Gintama with how important characters rarely end up dying despite getting ripped to shreads (not referencing though, how the characters refused to kill but rather how nobody dies) Even killing them doesn't need to be a solution all the time, just general negative emotion once in a while. It's why I found the Bell - Arde conflict to be absolute horseshit |
Short_CircutMay 14, 2019 1:01 PM
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| I always find goody two shoes characters boring. My fav chars usually those in moral of the grey to black area. It's not a reason to hate shounen anime though. It's still my favorite genre/demographic. But I do usually love the rival or the antagonists more than the goody two shoes protagonist lmao. |
 OTP: KidLaw | IzuKatsu | GureShin | EruRi | AoKi | See more!» My art » My translation » Doujinshi collection » Favorite Kurobas doujinshi  BISHIES X RAP |
| I don't really have any strong feelings about it, but I get why it's there. It's just that, for most people, it's a lot easier to project yourself onto a character that wouldn't kill versus a character that would. Maybe if I grew up differently I might feel more strongly about it. I mean, I grew up with Doctor Who, and literally one of the main mantras of that show is 'killing is always unacceptable'. |
| Yes it does bother me, but I've kinda given up on it cuz of how prevalent that trait is in the medium. |
| I get what you mean but I disagree with one thing, One Piece isn't lighthearted and it's not as unrealistic as you make it out to be. Luffy just cleares the way, it's not a necessity to kill anyone. |
  『 The truth has power because it’s the truth. And because it is the truth, that makes it just. It’s persuasive, isn’t it? Don’t you want truth like that? 』 |
| Yeah dude.. like who wouldn't kill the guy that killed your parents and slaughtered your whole village.. am I right. |
A stupid thread deserves a stupid answer!  |
| Yea I don't like them. What's the point of the villain than, to make them friends. |
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| Is interesting to think about though. Question: Are the people who hate this kind of character the same people who are in favor of capital punishment or is that a completely unrelated subject? |
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
Tuvokfan said: I just don't want you to pass over the suffering presented in the story by using that term.Kuraya said: One piece is light-hearted and that's not a bad thing. I said Once Piece was an exception. I like that series even though the mc refuses to kill. It is also incredibly unrealistic. Zoro can cut massive boulders in half but only knocks out the people he is fighting. Its impossible to take the fights in one piece seriously. What makes one piece good is the drama and bonds between the characters and the stupid crap they get into all the time. Its a fun adventure anime. I get what you mean but I disagree with one thing, One Piece isn't lighthearted and it's not as unrealistic as you make it out to be. Luffy just cleares the way, it's not a necessity to kill anyone. Oh, you mean the fights by unrealistic... But of course, pumping air into your bones won't make them heavier, increasing blood pressure won't make your reflexes faster etc etc. However that may be I take the fights extremely seriously, idk why someone wouldn't |
『 The truth has power because it’s the truth. And because it is the truth, that makes it just. It’s persuasive, isn’t it? Don’t you want truth like that? 』 |
HyperL said: Question: Are the people who hate this kind of character the same people who are in favor of capital punishment or is that a completely unrelated subject? Mostly unrelated. Ofc one is fiction and the other is real, having views on one idea doesn't have to correlate with the other one |
'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| I have an opposite opinion. It may seem annoying, but I believe it portrays a realistic and logical decision. Killing someone isn't that black and white, and it doesn't just affect the deceased. It affects the person doing the killing as well. Those executioners who carry out the capital punishment? Yeah, they're losing their minds!! Same thing with soldiers. But the mental trauma shouldn't matter because you killed the bad guy? It's naive to truly think that killing the bad guy undos all the damage and suffering. It makes perfect sense to not want to harbor said burden, especially if that person is a kid. Just like any other trope, it needs to be used correctly. True, a paid assassin shouldn't have a no-kill policy. But, there have been shows that use the trope quite well. I also don't find it boring since I take entertainment in seeing if they can really hold up to their morals. |
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| I generally dislike it as well. I prefer characters who have a bit of a dark side. I’m not totally against the concept of a character who refuses to kill though, if the story is good enough. Rurouni Kenshin is, in my opinion, a good example of a story with a character who won’t kill that is very well done. There were times when I wished Kenshin would just embrace his dark past and start slaughtering people, but I totally get why he didn’t, and I also loved how important his decision not to kill was to those around him and how it impacted his relationship with those people. |
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Tuvokfan said: I truly despise these main characters and nearly always insta-drop shows that have these types of MC's. Here are my reasons. 1. It means the main character is always holding back. No matter how intense the fight you always know that the main character is trying not to kill his enemy and this really kills the tension. 2. It breaks the immersion. There is no way it is possible to realistically "knock out" enemies reliably enough without seriously injuring or killing them. If someone is hell-bent on killing you, killing them is basically the only way to deal with it. 3. The moral logic of "I will not kill no matter what." is fundamentally flawed. By refusing to kill you are putting yourself at a massive disadvantage and endangering those you are protecting. For example by refusing to kill an obvious villain you are dooming many innocent people to their death. If you don't kill an enemy that could have been killed, anyone that said enemy kills afterward is your responsibility, it's a simple truth. 4. The main reason I hate main characters like this is that it is just so boring to watch. In a good anime or piece of media in general, whether or not to kill someone is a HUGE choice and sets up moral dilemmas that add a lot of complexity to the story. It feels like when an author writes a main character that refuses to kill no matter what, it is completely cops out of this conflict. In American political terms it’s like someone voting either just democrat or just republican without even looking at who is running. It’s not good storytelling. In addition to this it slows down the pace of the story and a lot of times, because the final blow is never driven home the villains build up and clog up the narrative. I personally prefer a main character that gets the job done and does what he has to do in order to protect those he loves to some wishy washing self-contradicting MC with childish morals. However I do think exceptions must be made for lighthearted action shows like boku no hero academia, one piece, ext. These shows seemed to be more focused on adventure and being epic and are pursuing any kind of realism whatsoever so its fine. I am talking more about action shows that have a lot of characters dying. Do you agree with my frustrations or do you think I am being overly harsh? B-But.. Batman is my favorite superhero... And The Dark Knight is a really great movie |
on 
| I am not really bothered by these plot armors. |
 "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost." |
Prince said: Yeah dude.. like who wouldn't kill the guy that killed your parents and slaughtered your whole village.. am I right. Too bad the dude now really regrets killing him... |
Tuvokfan said: CHLO_JO007 said: I agree the sometimes it is the right call not to kill. But the stubborn mindset of I will not take a life even if my friends are dying all around me is BS. You have people that are relying on you to due your duty and protect your country / friends. It is just not realistic to save everyone. You sometimes have to take a life in order to save dozens more. Naively refusing to kill enemies is running from reality and forcing others to do your dirty work. I agree that killing should be a last resort but some times it has to be done for the greater good. I have an opposite opinion. It may seem annoying, but I believe it portrays a realistic and logical decision. Killing someone isn't that black and white, and it doesn't just affect the deceased. It affects the person doing the killing as well. Those executioners who carry out the capital punishment? Yeah, they're losing their minds!! Same thing with soldiers. But the mental trauma shouldn't matter because you killed the bad guy? It's naive to truly think that killing the bad guy undos all the damage and suffering. It makes perfect sense to not want to harbor said burden, especially if that person is a kid. Just like any other trope, it needs to be used correctly. True, a paid assassin shouldn't have a no-kill policy. But, there have been shows that use the trope quite well. I also don't find it boring since I take entertainment in seeing if they can really hold up to their morals. "Just because you're correct, doesn't mean you're right" An obligatory response for that comment made by Shirou Emiya (the dude's kinda beef-headed, but he's kinda admirable as well) |
Tuvokfan said: Dave_Adrian said: Thanks for reminding me of that. I nearly broke the screen when he said that. "Just because you're correct, doesn't mean you're right" An obligatory response for that comment made by Shirou Emiya (the dude's kinda beef-headed, but he's kinda admirable as well) Youre welcome m8... but hey, Batman is also doing it, and he's my fav super And The Dark Knight is a really great movie |
| Yeah it's dumb as fuck, and probably one of the things that annoys me most in anime. OP pretty much covered all the reasons. It's selfish to endanger others around you just because of a false sense of moral righteousness. |
 What's the difference? |
| It depends, sometimes it can be done correctly (like in Chika's case in world trigger, that got recently explained in the manga, and in the case of Senya in Sengoku Youko). But it can be really annoying when the MC refuses to fight no matter what and because of that lack of determination something bad ends up happening to someone he/she cares for. |
| "We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes." ~Blackwall |
| Rurouni Kenshin & Trigun are the only shows I can think of with this MC. What others am I missing? |
“Villainy?” he interrupted. “My dear child, all that’s mere verbiage, prattle. Nothing’s villainous if it causes an erection, and the single crime that exists in this world is to refuse anything that might produce a discharge.” |
Daemon said: Yeah it's dumb as fuck, and probably one of the things that annoys me most in anime. OP pretty much covered all the reasons. It's selfish to endanger others around you just because of a false sense of moral righteousness. Isn't it a bit stretching to say that it's because of "a false sense of moral righteousness" that you refuse to kill? Oo yea, I just remembered that Naruto has never killed anyone over the course of "Naruto", which is pretty weird (or very lucky of him?) considering you're in a world where ninja work kinda calls for wet work (60% of the time) |
Tuvokfan said: I agree the sometimes it is the right call not to kill. But the stubborn mindset of I will not take a life even if my friends are dying all around me is BS. You have people that are relying on you to due your duty and protect your country / friends. It is just not realistic to save everyone. You sometimes have to take a life in order to save dozens more. Naively refusing to kill enemies is running from reality and forcing others to do your dirty work. I agree that killing should be a last resort but some times it has to be done for the greater good. That's why I say, just like any other trope, it should be used CORRECTLY. Do I find useless characters annoying? Yes. Do I hate it when useless characters are thrown into the middle of action? Yes. Do I hate the whole "thou shalt not kill" thing? No, because having a no-kill policy doesn't automatically make you a useless wuss. You can be cool, badass, and useful without killing anyone. Edward Elric from FMAB and the Phantom Thieves from Persona 5 are also good examples. If anything, I find it more annoying when you take normal teenagers or kids and turn them into homicidal maniacs with no remorse for killing simply because the plot demanded it. (*cough* King's Game and Guilty Crown *cough*). If used correctly, it portrays a genuine and realistic character. |
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| Nah cause they include Batman, one of the best characters of all time. |
  Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
camay1997 said: Rurouni Kenshin & Trigun are the only shows I can think of with this MC. What others am I missing? Shirou Emiya, Naruto, Luffy, BATMAN, Edward Elric, Kurosaki Ichigo? (a bit arguable that one tbh) |
Aidoru-Ojisan said: Nah cause they include Batman, one of the best characters of all time. MY MAN RIGHT HERE THROWIN THEM FACTS LIKE A SON OF A GUN!! |
Tuvokfan said: camay1997 said: Gunter from deadman wonderland, Emiya from Fate stay night, Nastu from fairty tail, Gon from Hunter x Hunter (When he makes an exception its badass :D), the MC from pandora hearts. Honestly pretty much every mc in an anime rated pg-13 on mal. Some of these MC are more annoying than others though but don't kill enemies nonetheless. The protagonist refusing to kill is a very prevalent trend in anime. Rurouni Kenshin & Trigun are the only shows I can think of with this MC. What others am I missing? Natsu actually killed someone at the end of Fairy Tail... And Fairy Tail basically killed its fanbase in the end... |
Tuvokfan said: Batman makes sense though. He has special equipment that allows him to apprehend criminals without killing them. He has honed nonlethal takedown techniques for years. It's not unrealistic that he is able to apprehend them. Batman doesn't break immersion or feel weak. Also, a lot (not all) of the people he fights are small-time criminals that don't deserve to be killed anyway. He doesn't come of shoneny at all. I am mainly talking about people like Emiya, Gunter, ext. Have you seen The Dark Knight tho? If Batman killed the Joker (in the scene where he was using his bike and had the chance to run the Joker over) I'm positive that a lot of people would still be alive... But hey, The Dark Knight is still a really great movie 10/10 |
| Occasionally, yes. Other times, no. It depends on the context and how it's handled. I generally find characters refusing to kill easier to stomach if they have a proper, well-explained reason for not killing. Batman? Fears he'd end up just as bad as the villains if he'd kill, so he refuses to. Porco Rosso? Something of a gentleman knight of the sky who is "no murderer", so you can kind of get it. Refusing to kill for no other reason than "killing is bad, mkay", however, usually gets annoying really fast unless it's explored in more depth and made part of the point. I suppose I'm saying, that characters refusing to kill can be annoying when it feels forced and tacked on rather than an integral part of the character or story in question. |
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| Well, I get the frustration and I've certainly felt this too a few times. But I disagree with some of the things you're saying here. I don't understand how an MC killing their enemy is more realistic than a "wishy washing self-contradicting MC with childish morals". Why is not wanting to kill childish? You make it sound like a character with such morals can't be well-written, or that a real person couldn't think this way. Killing isn't the only way to get rid of an enemy, you know. Sometimes it may be, but usually there are other possibilities left, which include, for example, the bad guy changing their ways. Which, in my experience, is what these kind of MCs usually believe in. And I mean, that can make good materials for a great story. I don't know about you, but I'd say that realistically, killing is the absolute last resort, one that most people rely on when there are really no other options left. The situation would need to be pretty freaking tight for this to happen. Which it rarely is. Tuvokfan said: If you don't kill an enemy that could have been killed, anyone that said enemy kills afterward is your responsibility, it's a simple truth. Oh come on, this is bs. Refusing to kill someone in no way makes you responsible for the deeds said person does afterwards. I could understand this if the situation was something like "Choose whether you press the "Kill the villain" button or not, if you don't press it the villain will kill everyone else" but again, it's usually not that simple at all. Tuvokfan said: However I do think exceptions must be made for lighthearted action shows like boku no hero academia, one piece, ext. These shows seemed to be more focused on adventure and being epic and are pursuing any kind of realism whatsoever so its fine. I am talking more about action shows that have a lot of characters dying. Is Luffy really the kind of MC you're talking about? Luffy leaves his opponents alive because that forces them to face the fact that their plans and hard work were ruined. Luffy doesn't care that much what happens to others, he's only interested in protecting the people he likes. He was recently a part of an assassination plan, you know. |
Tuvokfan said: Dave_Adrian said: Lol no I haven't. I probably would have been pissed, but whatever. I actually watched the original batman when I was a little kid and also I watched the first batman movie with my friend. Batman is cool and all but I am more of an anime guy. Have you seen The Dark Knight tho? If Batman killed the Joker (in the scene where he was using his bike and had the chance to run the Joker over) I'm positive that a lot of people would still be alive... But hey, The Dark Knight is still a really great movie 10/10 You... haven't... seen... The Dark Knight?!?!?!? THATS LIKE BLASPHEMY!!! GO LOG ON TO YO NETFLIX ACC AN WATCH THAT SHIT RIGHT NOW!! |
| I only find it frustrating when they forgive the enemy (cough cough naruto). |
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