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| with what i've witnessed, i'm making violet evergarden as one of my favorite female characters, i can't help but be amazed with her combat skills even though i know that i should be sad since she should not be doing that as a child. based on previous episodes, i think gilbert and violet had a chance to be a couple, but with this episode it feels like gilbert's love was of like a father than a lover. |
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Zarator said: I know I'll be in the minority saying so, but this was one of the weakest episodes in the anime - at least plot-wise. Mind you, the plot has always been VE's biggest weakness so far (especially if compared to the high-quality animation), but this episode managed to reach especially egregious heights. I know some of you will be astonished by this comment, given how "emotional" you may have found this ep. to be, but please bear with me for a moment. My first, and most important gripe with this episode is that everything about Violet and how people around her react reeks of what I like to call "Informed Attribute Syndrome". Basically, what people say about Violet in the anime and what we, the viewers, get to see on-screen have no match whatsoever. Just about every person but the mayor treats her as a tool and openly comments about how she's just a weapon and all that - the red-haired guy is more on the fence, but given his comment about having seen Violet on the training grounds it seems his credit for her is more the result of his trust in the mayor than a personal assessment. This is frankly ridiculous - am I supposed to believe that everybody but Gilberto is blind or what? This is even more appalling if you think about how many people have swooned over Violet's blond hair and blue eyes in the present story so far, and compare this attitude to how insensitive people have been to her in the flashback (which raises the suspicion that it's been done just to boost her "cutie" points rather than for plot-coherent reasons). I would have understood if the mayor somehow started mellowing out AFTER he began seeing Violet's more humane side, but no - he was all over her instantly just like how everybody in the present time was, more or less. Sure, you may argue she was a bit more "unkempt" back then, but COME ON - the animation really waste no effort making her look as beautiful back then as she is now. All she gains since then is basically a better dress. In short, there is little to no effort to ground in the slightest part the comments and reactions of people with what is shown on screen. Why is there such a huge gulf between how people look at Violet in the flashback? And why is everybody suddenly so endeared by her now? This is hardly addressed, as if the anime's only concern was to make her as adorable as possible in the past, and to swoon over her alongside the audience in the present. My second, and somewhat related gripe with this episode, was just how "partial" it was to Violet. I'm not saying that she wasn't a child-soldier, or that she wasn't treated unjustly. I know that humans can be true bastards, sometimes. However, it feels kinda cheap to basically portray everybody but Gilberto as an asshole, while emphasizing just how unfortunate of a creature poor Violet is. Either it makes Gilberto a fool for trusting her so easily - before he even had a reason for doing so - or it simply makes everyone else look evil, period. Which I would tolerate if this was a show like, say, Garo, which involves explicitly inhuman villains like Bishop. But I think it's unacceptable, when it comes to actual humans like us, to portray their actions in such a groundless and immotivated way, leaving them completely disconnected from what we see. Sure, we do see scenes where Violet kills people and all that, but that's what being a child soldier is about - it certainly doesn't justify the extreme callousness showed by some of the characters in this episode, even in the face of obvious evidence of the contrary. Bottom line is, I didn't like this episode because it felt as "partial" as a rigged trial, where it was already decided that we, the audience, should side with Violet because everybody else but her and a few others are inveterate bastards with no excuse for their actions and thoughts. And would I be supposed to take this in any way seriously? Please. This is what happens when you want your audience to sympathize FOR SURE to the victimizing of your protagonist. If they showed how brutal Violet was before her training, you would see why Dietfried and the superiors would treat her that way. But it won't solve Gilbert's daddy complex. It's a very common problem in anime drama, once you reflect on it, it crumbles immediately. |
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Chiibi said: Eanraig said: I partially agree with you on your second point, I think it's the cheesy, unnatural dialogue that doesn't sell the complete disregard for her life by other people in the military, "Gil, she's no child. She's a weapon, just a war tool.", "She's only good for killing, and completely useless otherwise... Just exploit this orphaned girl as much as you can and dump her in the battlefield when she's no longer of use", who even talks like this? Human beings have done far more despicable things in the past. Just take a history class on all the different torture devices they've come up with. Even in the present, people have DUMPED newborn babies into GARBAGE cans for f*ck's sake. How the military acted in this episode is like nothing at all compared to what real people are capable of saying or doing. lol Even the most despicable acts can be given a "rational" excuse which doesn't make the person doing them completely insane. A person might have reasons for doing morally wrong things, even if this doesn't change the fact that those things are indeed wrong. In fact, one of the distinctive features of (non-insane) humans is that they tend to act on reasons, however flawed they may be. On the contrary, as Eanraig rightfully pointed out, the dialogues in this episode came as so obviously evil that they sounded almost comical. I never felt, even once, like "I can see why this guy would behave like that, even if I'll never agree with him". Which also sorta killed my sympathy for Violet herself, because while I can imagine her having been treaten unfairly in many ways, her case in this episode was presented so partially, using such blatant strawmans, that it made me feel like I was watching a rigged trial against whoever didn't like her, so to speak. If the writers were better than this, they should have put more effort in letting us see why these people would be incapable of see the humane side of Violet which the mayor saw so readily. But no, they were too busy making Violet look cute, wouldn't want to risk making one of her "dissers" look justified, right? |
T3hSource said: This is what happens when you want your audience to sympathize FOR SURE to the victimizing of your protagonist. If they showed how brutal Violet was before her training, you would see why Dietfried and the superiors would treat her that way. But it won't solve Gilbert's daddy complex. It's a very common problem in anime drama, once you reflect on it, it crumbles immediately. Exactly, that's the problem. But that's also why I can't get attached to Violet at all. It's not just that she's too "perfect", too "supposed to be liked" to feel true, but now it starts to feel like she's not perfect, but the anime is purposefully being careful about emphasizing her faults or flaws. That's why in my previous post I compared this episode to a "rigged trial". It's hard to shrug off the whole feeling that what I'm watching here is not the "full truth". Which undermines any attempts at getting me to sympathize with Violet herself, in the first place. Maybe, if her faults had been shown more clearly, and if her detractors didn't sound so comically evil, I would've found myself siding with Violet more - no human is perfect, but nothing bores me more than ones which are presented as such. |
| Fuck that was awesome. Probably the best episode of the series so far. Military actions, Violet's backstory not just in 30 second long flashbacks and Violet finally gets to absolutely wreck shit. Now it actually makes some sense why people would be calling her a "weapon" and being scared shitless of her. Anyway, it was really good. I imagine next episode she's gonna be pissed about Gilbert getting shot, go on an absolute rampage and get both her arms shot/blown off in the process. I wonder what Gilbert will be doing during this or whether it will be a rampage more in order to get him out rather than just killing people. The more boring thing would be if they just try to run and her arms get blown off anticlimactically like with Gilbert getting shot in this episode. Still 10/10 for this one. |
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| Wow. Gil's body wasn't found. Could he still be alive? Sad story. I hope it ends well. |
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| Really great episode and the action scenes were really fucking good, and holy shit that ending!!! |
| “I love heroes, but I don't want to be one. Do you even know what a hero is!? For example, you have some meat. Pirates will feast on the meat, but the hero will distribute it among the people! I want to eat the meat!” - Monkey D. Luffy |
| A 3rd episode so far where I was fully engaged. The other ones being 1 and 6. While visuals continue to impress, the writing seems just average with some really beautiful moments spread throughout. (like Violet learning the word utskushii and using it right away, that was cute). On the other hand I found episode 7 to be melodramatic to a fault. I cant really explain it properly right now, but something just doesnt click with this show. It almost feels like it would be better if the order of some episodes was changed and the story was told differently. Also what Zarator said rings true as well. |
| Finally some much needed background story, though I would have liked to see more about how Violet became like this, instead of just her time in the army :/ Sad for the major, he seemed like a nice guy. He shouldn't have let his guard down though :/ He is too focused on Violet (which is somewhat understandable I guess). I have a feeling he is still alive, so the season might end with Violet going to look for her. |
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| is it just me or calling Violet "weapon" looks even more stupidier now. so she is a superpower loli "justbecause". it makes sense that the bad bad army guys use her without any consequences. a child soldier? who cares! oh and what nice pedo vibes. but nooo it's not "pedo" if a kid falls in love too! and Violet DOES yay! not pedo or anything. see how this kid tells that man that she loved his eyes from the beginning? my god SO romantic :'] she even felt SOME WEIRD FEELING inside of her chest. jesus, what that coulda been? sheeesh you twoo~! ;] Daniel_Naumov said: In this case, I will forgive the creator for misusing the word "doll", if anything. wow i could never be as forgiving..... i see "auto memory dolls" written with blood on endless walls in the dark corridors.every night. and then i wake up in my bed in cold sweat. |
| see you, space cowperson . . . |
| My God. This episode went so fast. There was so much to learn and I like this shift of gears to the Violet's past instead of the Auto Doll meetings she did. They were definitely amazing, but this just brings in more variety and I'm hyped! Something tells me the Major isn't dead, but it's just a gut feeling... Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. I'm sure Violet Evergarden will make it amazing either way. Expecting a lot in the next episode. Ganbatte Violetto-chan |
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| Beautiful episode, glad we've finished reached this volume. Note the emphasis on how Gilbert's body was never retrieved. |
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Eugenefindit said: Man, watching the Episodes 6-8 all at once was probably a bit overkill. They were probably the best episodes thus far. But I swear, I really hope this anime gets the attention of people back. Because if after Episode 7 & 8 and people still think this anime is bad, they need to be more familiar with how Kyoto Animation works. ^_^ Well, aside from the fact that majority of the viewers in MAL have liked the anime, especially the last two episodes as you have pointed out, the anime has been received very well since episode 5 in Japan actually. It has now warded off stiff competition form Yuru Camp and Sora yori during January and early February after the last three episodes as it has gained a lot of the fans' acknowledgement back in Japan. Despite of all the earlier criticism/ low ratings for a KyoAni anime after the first 4 episodes, particularly of episodes 2 and 4 the anime has now consolidated its position as the #1 anime of winter 2018 season thanks to the newer episodes. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
Zarator said: Even the most despicable acts can be given a "rational" excuse which doesn't make the person doing them completely insane. They CAN be.....but that doesn't mean there is one. What "rational excuse" did Vlad the Impaler have? None. He just liked to see people suffer. A person might have reasons for doing morally wrong things, even if this doesn't change the fact that those things are indeed wrong. Well, if Violet were to suddenly become "useless" in battle, the military in this world certainly isn't going to baby-sit a helpless child. I wasn't at all surprised when he said "just abandon her when you're done with her." There was no mercy because they couldn't afford to spare it. Not in as brutal a setting as this. This world is also obviously based on a much older time, like the Victorian Era where a tween princess can be engaged to an older man as we saw in episode 05. Morals among these people seem rather loose, taking that into account. If the writers were better than this, they should have put more effort in letting us see why these people would be incapable of see the humane side of Violet which the mayor saw so readily. But no, they were too busy making Violet look cute, wouldn't want to risk making one of her "dissers" look justified, right? Well the series hasn't ended yet. I don't think it's fair to diss the writers at this point. |
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| I liked watching Violet shank people :D so I enjoyed this episode more than some other ones, like the astronomer episode. The question begging to be answered is of course where she was trained to fight and why she then was dumped in the woods with no communication skills Sean_Nessman said: I don't know it's wrong from the start to write a blank emotionless character as heroine, or maybe some other studios and writers would make such character more thrilling. Shiki from Kara no Kyoukai is one, Anthy from Utena is another, Yuki Nagoto is one more.... ahhh but this Violet is different because she is boring. Well said. I've been trying to put my finger on why I haven't really cared for Violet. For the several episodes, Violet would go into the same speech about the major, not understanding love, etc. It all felt very artificial to me. |
Eugenefindit said: shanimebib said: Well, aside from the fact that majority of the viewers in MAL have liked the anime, especially the last two episodes as you have pointed out, the anime has been received very well since episode 5 in Japan actually. It has now warded off stiff competition form Yuru Camp and Sora yori during January and early February after the last three episodes as it has gained a lot of the fans' acknowledgement back in Japan. Despite of all the earlier criticism/ low ratings for a KyoAni anime after the first 4 episodes, particularly of episodes 2 and 4 the anime has now consolidated its position as the #1 anime of winter 2018 season thanks to the newer episodes. That's actually quite the relief. I've been seeing a lot of complaints for the anime especially on Youtube. Fingers crossed that all goes well. ^_^ Anime youtubers don't have any impact on the value of an anime. At least I have not seen them making any impact on how the anime does in Japan. It is Japan where it really matters. Most of the TV anime get their international revenue through selling international legal streaming right and getting their anime licensed to be released in the international market. A very insignificant amount of non-R2 releases go to their pocket. The numbers that really matter to anime studios is R2 releases (BDs and DVDs sold in Japan), merchandise sold within Japan (as they consist of more than 90% of total worldwide sales) and through events/ live performances/ theatre releases in Japan (recap movies) etc. For example, so much so has been said about VE, Darli-fra and few other anime, but it's Yuru Camp that has been doing the best in merchandises from all the winter anime. It's a strong indication that it will probably sell at least 4-5K/vol. VE volume 1 will be released on the 4th of April and it will have the first 3 episodes in it. Only then we will really know if the ratings really mattered. My prediction is it will be somewhere between 6.5-7.5K/vol. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| Oh my god I dont know what to say about this. It was beautiful. The OST was really on point, KyoAni showed how strong they are with animations. And the story was so sweet. I dont know why I was not instantly hyped after the first few episodes (I guess Violets blank personality back then put me off, she showed more even in the flashbacks after all) but after that I was really hooped and Im glad I did not drop it. I feared this might become the overrated/disappointing anime of the season (coming from KyoAni possible of the whole year) but Im glad it is not. This is really an amazing story, and the best thing is I think we will get a satisfying not cliffhanger ending. (Im tempted to rewatch at this point because I want to know if I can appreciate the early episodes more now) 5/5 episode. Im sure going to read the LN, since its not too long. TL;DR - the entire episode hit me right in the kokoro and I was like "Awwwwwwwww" all the time |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
Chiibi said: They CAN be.....but that doesn't mean there is one. What "rational excuse" did Vlad the Impaler have? None. He just liked to see people suffer. Just because a character, or a plot, is a realistic one, it doesn't mean it makes for a good story. Anticlimax endings, Deus ex Machina, ass pulls and whatnot all exist in the real world. Not every real story is a good story. But putting that thing aside, it is true that some ppl IRL are simply insane, but they're far less than what you might think. Heck, you mention Vlad the Impaler - do you really think his "rational excuse" can be summed up as "he just likes to see people suffer"? Heck, not even the Nazi or Stalin can be reduced to such stupid and cookie-cutter formulas. Yes, there are some people who do like to see people suffer, but I can't think of a single person who can be defined merely by the fact they "like to see people suffer". People are not just born like that. If anything, it's bad fiction, arguably like Violet Evergarden too, which feed the feeling that you can easily paint some people as villains, with no need to say a further word as to why they act like that in the first place. It's just... easier, I suppose. This world is also obviously based on a much older time, like the Victorian Era where a tween princess can be engaged to an older man as we saw in episode 05. Morals among these people seem rather loose, taking that into account. And yet, the same apparently isn't true of Violet, of the mayor, or of any character we're supposed to sympathize with. If the authors really were trying to go for something as you suggest, then they should have gone all the way through it - perhaps giving some chars a lighter shade of gray, yes, but not with such a sharp distinction between chars with a moral code 100+ years apart from each other, and with no explanation whatsoever as to why they would be so different. Well the series hasn't ended yet. I don't think it's fair to diss the writers at this point. First, if you really expect the writers to put some darker shades of gray into the show after this, then I guess you will be sorely disappointed. Second, I am dissing what I have seen up to this point. Putting aside predictions of how this is going to turn out, people are calling "awesome, moving, gorgeous" or whatever a half-assed plot with characters that are banally shaped as good or evil without any attempt to make them more well-rounded, complex or ambiguous. I don't know if it's fair to diss the writers at this point, but it certainly isn't fair to praise them for what we've seen so far. The animators? Sure. The character designers? Definitely. The writers? Over my dead body. |
| We learned a lot about Violet's past in this episode. We knew that her past was rough, but seeing it visually really makes it easier to understand everything. I wonder what Violet is going to do next. |
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shanimebib said: Eugenefindit said: That's actually quite the relief. I've been seeing a lot of complaints for the anime especially on Youtube. Fingers crossed that all goes well. ^_^ Anime youtubers don't have any impact on the value of an anime. At least I have not seen them making any impact on how the anime does in Japan. It is Japan where it really matters. Most of the TV anime get their international revenue through selling international legal streaming right and getting their anime licensed to be released in the international market. A very insignificant amount of non-R2 releases go to their pocket. The numbers that really matter to anime studios is R2 releases (BDs and DVDs sold in Japan), merchandise sold within Japan (as they consist of more than 90% of total worldwide sales) and through events/ live performances/ theatre releases in Japan (recap movies) etc. For example, so much so has been said about VE, Darli-fra and few other anime, but it's Yuru Camp that has been doing the best in merchandises from all the winter anime. It's a strong indication that it will probably sell at least 4-5K/vol. VE volume 1 will be released on the 4th of April and it will have the first 3 episodes in it. Only then we will really know if the ratings really mattered. My prediction is it will be somewhere between 6.5-7.5K/vol. VE volume 1 is expected to sell 2.5k. If it doesn't improve, then it'll probably end up selling less than Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. |
Z4k said: VE volume 1 is expected to sell 2.5k. If it doesn't improve, then it'll probably end up selling less than Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. Interesting. But are you referring to the fan made stalker numbers released on the mid Feb (exact posting date was either 18th or 19th I think) just after episode 6 aired? Considering the response time was much smaller, I am sure the fans response for episode 6 didn't kick in. It got fairly good response in twitter and 2ch. Check the latest update for HMV25 which is one of the major pointer for the stalker. Vol.1 was ranked 18th iirc on Feb 17th and Vol. 2 was listed 24th. Now Vol.1 is ranked 4th and all four volumes are in Top 15. That's why I said it could probably be around 6.5K-7.5K. I may even be underestimating. The stalker estimation is not always definite and it changes from week to week. Depending on how the remaining 6 episodes would go, the numbers can go lower or higher. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
shanimebib said: Z4k said: VE volume 1 is expected to sell 2.5k. If it doesn't improve, then it'll probably end up selling less than Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid. Interesting. But are you referring to the fan made stalker numbers released on the mid Feb (exact posting date was either 18th or 19th I think) just after episode 6 aired? Considering the response time was much smaller, I am sure the fans response for episode 6 didn't kick in. It got fairly good response in twitter and 2ch. Check the latest update for HMV25 which is one of the major pointer for the stalker. Vol.1 was ranked 18th iirc on Feb 17th and Vol. 2 was listed 24th. Now Vol.1 is ranked 4th and all four volumes are in Top 15. That's why I said it could probably be around 6.5K-7.5K. I may even be underestimating. The stalker estimation is not always definite and it changes from week to week. Depending on how the remaining 6 episodes would go, the numbers can go lower or higher. It's based on this which updates daily. http://www.rankstker.net/index_news.cgi You need at least 4-5k points (pre-orders) to sell 6k BD/DVDs. Right now VE vol.1 BD has 1,220 and the final forcast is 1978 if it stays the same. It may increase later on but I can't see it suddenly getting 3000 pre-orders in just 30 days unless it has a great ending which gives it a boost. |
Z4k said: shanimebib said: Interesting. But are you referring to the fan made stalker numbers released on the mid Feb (exact posting date was either 18th or 19th I think) just after episode 6 aired? Considering the response time was much smaller, I am sure the fans response for episode 6 didn't kick in. It got fairly good response in twitter and 2ch. Check the latest update for HMV25 which is one of the major pointer for the stalker. Vol.1 was ranked 18th iirc on Feb 17th and Vol. 2 was listed 24th. Now Vol.1 is ranked 4th and all four volumes are in Top 15. That's why I said it could probably be around 6.5K-7.5K. I may even be underestimating. The stalker estimation is not always definite and it changes from week to week. Depending on how the remaining 6 episodes would go, the numbers can go lower or higher. It's based on this which updates daily. http://www.rankstker.net/index_news.cgi You need at least 4-5k points (pre-orders) to sell 6k BD/DVDs. Right now VE vol.1 BD has 1,220 and the final forcast is 1978 if it stays the same. It may increase later on but I can't see it suddenly getting 3000 pre-orders in just 30 days unless it has a great ending which gives it a boost. I see. However, like I said it is showing HMV boost. Previous HMV boosts showed KyoAni shows selling much more than stalker predictions in the past. And I am seeing the same for VE here. Only time will tell if that happens or not. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
Zarator said: If anything, it's bad fiction, arguably like Violet Evergarden This is not "bad fiction". If you actually think this is "bad"....I'm envious of your fiction experiences. lol I don't know if it's fair to diss the writers at this point, but it certainly isn't fair to praise them for what we've seen so far. The animators? Sure. The character designers? Definitely. The writers? Over my dead body. What the hell? What's "unfair" about praising ANYTHING? Nobody loses; it's not like it's hurting you. If it IS hurting you..........then you have.......issues. lol |
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| A example of why flaring in the opening and then not hiding is a bad idea |
| Marathoned the full 8 episodes today.... I absolutely like this anime |
Chiibi said: What the hell? What's "unfair" about praising ANYTHING? Nobody loses; it's not like it's hurting you. If it IS hurting you..........then you have.......issues. lol My point is, we've not seen anything, at least plot-wise, which make me think this show should get all the praise it does. Shows shouldn't be judged based on what they could do in the future, but on what they did so far. And there's little to say about what's done so far. As in, you say you're okay with praising the show... but when I diss it, you say it's unfair because the show it's not over yet. Can you explain me how does this make sense? As for the "bad fiction" part... to me, good fiction is about coherent character development, characters which aren't unambigously good or bad, and "complexity/depth" in general. Steins Gate is good fiction. Shinsekai Yori is good fiction. Shirobako is good fiction. Uchouten Kazoku is good fiction. Violet Evergarden is good animation on top of a cookie-cutter plot. |
| I need a reason why Dietrich? that geezer so antagonises Violet? Judging from the avant title looked like he was particular in his dislike against her from the start. Something more than just cuntish attitude or class/sexism issues -> Never mind, just saw Major_Gilbert's post. I'm completely sold on Violet and Gilbert's relationship, it's simple but well done. The previous few episodes let me like Violet again, it helped a lot I think. |
LanzMar 4, 2018 6:40 AM
Zarator said: That's why in my previous post I compared this episode to a "rigged trial". It's hard to shrug off the whole feeling that what I'm watching here is not the "full truth". Which undermines any attempts at getting me to sympathize with Violet herself, in the first place. Maybe, if her faults had been shown more clearly, and if her detractors didn't sound so comically evil, I would've found myself siding with Violet more - no human is perfect, but nothing bores me more than ones which are presented as such. I truly believe this ep was where the KyoAni cookie truly crumbled. The very fact that refuse to show anything actually graphic denies the more experienced viewer the CHOICE to truly empathize with Violet despite witnessing the things she's done, which those other guys who we're supposed to hate talk about. Of course, this comes at the risk of some not siding with her,while some will take a more neutral stance towards her, but KyoAni doesn't do such things. They show you these characters and make absolutely sure who you're supposed to like,hate,feel bad for,etc. All hail the moe hive mind should be their motto,lol. Incidentally, Grandcresk Senki's ep 9 is the perfect example of how expressive a well-done graphical scene can be ~ with all the controversy that comes with such scenes. |
Zarator said: I know I'll be in the minority saying so, but this was one of the weakest episodes in the anime - at least plot-wise. Mind you, the plot has always been VE's biggest weakness so far (especially if compared to the high-quality animation), but this episode managed to reach especially egregious heights. I know some of you will be astonished by this comment, given how "emotional" you may have found this ep. to be, but please bear with me for a moment. My first, and most important gripe with this episode is that everything about Violet and how people around her react reeks of what I like to call "Informed Attribute Syndrome". Basically, what people say about Violet in the anime and what we, the viewers, get to see on-screen have no match whatsoever. Just about every person but the mayor treats her as a tool and openly comments about how she's just a weapon and all that - the red-haired guy is more on the fence, but given his comment about having seen Violet on the training grounds it seems his credit for her is more the result of his trust in the mayor than a personal assessment. This is frankly ridiculous - am I supposed to believe that everybody but Gilberto is blind or what? This is even more appalling if you think about how many people have swooned over Violet's blond hair and blue eyes in the present story so far, and compare this attitude to how insensitive people have been to her in the flashback (which raises the suspicion that it's been done just to boost her "cutie" points rather than for plot-coherent reasons). I would have understood if the mayor somehow started mellowing out AFTER he began seeing Violet's more humane side, but no - he was all over her instantly just like how everybody in the present time was, more or less. Sure, you may argue she was a bit more "unkempt" back then, but COME ON - the animation really waste no effort making her look as beautiful back then as she is now. All she gains since then is basically a better dress. In short, there is little to no effort to ground in the slightest part the comments and reactions of people with what is shown on screen. Why is there such a huge gulf between how people look at Violet in the flashback? And why is everybody suddenly so endeared by her now? This is hardly addressed, as if the anime's only concern was to make her as adorable as possible in the past, and to swoon over her alongside the audience in the present. My second, and somewhat related gripe with this episode, was just how "partial" it was to Violet. I'm not saying that she wasn't a child-soldier, or that she wasn't treated unjustly. I know that humans can be true bastards, sometimes. However, it feels kinda cheap to basically portray everybody but Gilberto as an asshole, while emphasizing just how unfortunate of a creature poor Violet is. Either it makes Gilberto a fool for trusting her so easily - before he even had a reason for doing so - or it simply makes everyone else look evil, period. Which I would tolerate if this was a show like, say, Garo, which involves explicitly inhuman villains like Bishop. But I think it's unacceptable, when it comes to actual humans like us, to portray their actions in such a groundless and immotivated way, leaving them completely disconnected from what we see. Sure, we do see scenes where Violet kills people and all that, but that's what being a child soldier is about - it certainly doesn't justify the extreme callousness showed by some of the characters in this episode, even in the face of obvious evidence of the contrary. Bottom line is, I didn't like this episode because it felt as "partial" as a rigged trial, where it was already decided that we, the audience, should side with Violet because everybody else but her and a few others are inveterate bastards with no excuse for their actions and thoughts. And would I be supposed to take this in any way seriously? Please. If I hadn't read the novel before I watched this, I'd probably feel the same as you at this point. If you think of the anime alone there are many parts which are not really focused enough, for example, as you pointed out, the hate from Dietfreit and the general towards Violet. But in the novel, there is a reason for this: ever since he was a child, he never fitted into the Bougainvillea family (mainly because of his father, who forced him a future he did not want: “But… I… we will never be allowed to become what we want.” He joined the navy instead of the army, which was considered to be a bad option since their family had a deep relationship with the army. The only person he had a good relationship with was Gilbert. I know this might be a bit surprising considering how in the anime they just had a short conversation where they didn't seem to like each other... Violet was the one who killed every single one of his comrades after his ship got stranded on a deserted island. He became the last one to survive, and it's pretty easy to imagine how terrified he must have been. Once he realised that she could get orders to kill, he immediately gave her to Gilbert because he would be reminded of his dead comrades whenever he saw her. “I was pursued by this killer demon. It followed me around without leaving my side. It could have perfectly murdered me, but didn’t. Words didn’t work on it. While I couldn’t figure out how to talk to it, I slowly realized that it was the only inhabitant of that island. Have you any idea how frightening it is to have a killer demon glued to you?" The general did not say anything about just “abandoning” her when she is of no use in the novel. There is a similar situation, but all he does is to go as far as referring her as a “tool” and only questions Gilbert’s family’s reputation. “Could the most prominent symbol of national defense that is the Bougainvillea be a fake?” |
 "Le vent se lève!... Il faut tenter de vivre!" - Paul Valéry, Le Cimetière Marin - |
 Damn, Violet was ice cold. |
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Zarator said: My point is, we've not seen anything, at least plot-wise, which make me think this show should get all the praise it does. Shows shouldn't be judged based on what they could do in the future, but on what they did so far. And there's little to say about what's done so far. Well, I disagree. Whatcha gonna do about it, huh? :p As in, you say you're okay with praising the show... but when I diss it, you say it's unfair because the show it's not over yet. Can you explain me how does this make sense? How does it NOT make sense? It's like judging a movie after seeing a little bit of it instead of watching to the end. Endings are really important. The writers haven't told the full story before the ending, of course. This is common sense. cookie-cutter plot. What's so "cookie cutter" about this plot? |
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Major_Gilbert said: If I hadn't read the novel before I watched this, I'd probably feel the same as you at this point. If you think of the anime alone there are many parts which are not really focused enough, for example, as you pointed out, the hate from Dietfreit and the general towards Violet. But in the novel, there is a reason for this: ever since he was a child, he never fitted into the Bougainvillea family (mainly because of his father, who forced him a future he did not want: “But… I… we will never be allowed to become what we want.” He joined the navy instead of the army, which was considered to be a bad option since their family had a deep relationship with the army. The only person he had a good relationship with was Gilbert. I know this might be a bit surprising considering how in the anime they just had a short conversation where they didn't seem to like each other... Violet was the one who killed every single one of his comrades after his ship got stranded on a deserted island. He became the last one to survive, and it's pretty easy to imagine how terrified he must have been. Once he realised that she could get orders to kill, he immediately gave her to Gilbert because he would be reminded of his dead comrades whenever he saw her. “I was pursued by this killer demon. It followed me around without leaving my side. It could have perfectly murdered me, but didn’t. Words didn’t work on it. While I couldn’t figure out how to talk to it, I slowly realized that it was the only inhabitant of that island. Have you any idea how frightening it is to have a killer demon glued to you?" The general did not say anything about just “abandoning” her when she is of no use in the novel. There is a similar situation, but all he does is to go as far as referring her as a “tool” and only questions Gilbert’s family’s reputation. “Could the most prominent symbol of national defense that is the Bougainvillea be a fake?” First of all, thank you for your input - though, generally, I'm of the opinion a work should be judged on its own, not under the assumption of the source it's based on. The background info is nice, and would probably have helped if it was included in the anime proper. Though, again, I'm not sure if it's enough to justify Gilbert's "unique" sense of morality in a world which seems much more "backwards" about it. While, in history, people existed who displayed a more "advanced" sense of morality than their times, they weren't "ahead" on any single aspect of morality - they had some insights, but they also showed some important limits. I didn't see any flaws whatsoever in Gilbert, to be honest. Chiibi said: How does it NOT make sense? It's like judging a movie after seeing a little bit of it instead of watching to the end. Endings are really important. The writers haven't told the full story before the ending, of course. This is common sense. I agree, to an extent, but my point is that it works both ways - if it's true that one should hold his judgment before the end, this should be true both of critics and praisers. It's kinda hypocrite to say that criticism is inappropriate because the show isn't over yet, but praise is perfectly fine even if the show isn't over yet. What's so "cookie cutter" about this plot? I don't even know where to begin. First of all, there is hardly a plot to begin with. Violet's char development is very irregular, and often makes unexplained "leaps" - like how she suddenly starts understanding feelings she previously had no idea of, and this new understanding is more or less left unexplained by the events which led to it. But to focus on this lack of proper char development would almost be a compliment to the show - insofar as it assumes there are no other major issues. The entire show so far has been largely episodic, with a ridiculous focus on Violet's own cuteness at the expense of flaws, traits and quirks which could have helped making her look less like a "cuteness magnet/bait" and more like a complex character. And yes, even an emotionless girl who is on its way to mellowing out can do much more than just "look cute". Sure, plenty of emotionless girls do look a bit cute - Noel Kannagi from Sora no Woto, Yuki Nagato from Haruhi Suzumiya, even Rei Ayanami from Evangelion. But there's a difference between "looking cute" and "looking stunningly beautiful, so beautiful that the anime never ceases to remind you of just how gorgeous she looks." Ofc, it's not a "story flaw" in itself to have a beautiful character, but it is a flaw to have the story focus on Violet's cute appearance as if that was her defining trait. I mean, to put it bluntly - would we be even here, half of us gawking at this anime, if Violet didn't look as gorgeous as she does? I honestly doubt it. You may ask me "what has this to do with the plot being cookie-cutter?" To which I'd reply "are you even familiar with anime and stories in general?" Having cute chars as the main selling point of the show is, like, one of the most basics baiting strategies ever seen in anime. Sure, I can concede that few shows look as beautiful as VE, but the basic strategy - a cute and troubled girl, who looks so beautiful people end up drooling at her and feeling sorry for her and her past - is not only overdone in anime, but in fiction in general. You can go as far as the Victorian novelists such as Dickens to see just how common it is to create an endearing char for the audience in this way. This flashback could've been an opportunity to set things right - as in, to introduce some much needed shades of gray in the narration. To show that, maybe, Gilbert is not that kind of saint who immediately started looking after Violet, and instead had to take his time to realize what kind of person she is. To show that all the people who disregarded Violet were partly justified in doing so. To emphasize why, in short, Violet was treated by most people as a weapon. But no, instead the flashback wasted no time exalting Gilbert as a noble and generous man, while making Violet look as pitiable as possible. Even when she was shown fighting, the animation made absolutely no effort highlighting the "gore" which logic would expect to be present, focusing instead on her sad eyes or on her beautiful hair. It is this sort of details which make VE look so outdated - almost as if the more realistic and deconstructive sensitivity of the 20th century passed it by. This is cookie cutter in the most negative understanding of the term, and the baiting attempt is so blatant that it's impossible to ignore unless one falls for it, line and proverbial sinker. |
Zarator said: I agree, to an extent, but my point is that it works both ways - if it's true that one should hold his judgment before the end, this should be true both of critics and praisers. It's kinda hypocrite to say that criticism is inappropriate because the show isn't over yet, but praise is perfectly fine even if the show isn't over yet. I believe the word I used was "fair/unfair" which is different from what you are saying. Praise is pretty much never "unfair". That's what I was pointing out. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, there is hardly a plot to begin with. Violet's char development is very irregular, and often makes unexplained "leaps" - like how she suddenly starts understanding feelings she previously had no idea of, and this new understanding is more or less left unexplained by the events which led to it. Did you totally ignore all seven of the previous episodes where she was interacting with people and learning about their feelings or......? She's gonna catch on eventually. That doesn't need to be explained. lol You may ask me "what has this to do with the plot being cookie-cutter?" To which I'd reply "are you even familiar with anime and stories in general?" Having cute chars as the main selling point of the show is, like, one of the most basics baiting strategies ever seen in anime. Sir, it seems you are confusing "plot" with "trope". That is just silly. The plot of Violet Evergarden is "a young girl suffering from PTSD going on a self-discovering journey to find the meaning of love and other emotions". I haven't really seen other stories like that so that is why I don't think of it as "cookie cutter". The "attractive character with a tragic past" trope you are referring to is "Broken Bird". But just because lots of anime have Broken Bird characters doesn't mean they are copying one another. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrokenBird Even when she was shown fighting, the animation made absolutely no effort highlighting the "gore" which logic would expect to be present, focusing instead on her sad eyes or on her beautiful hair. Uh I saw blood and fire and bodies hitting the ground. It felt very much like a battlefield. Yes, they made Violet look pretty and awesome while she is fighting because it was through Gilbert's eyes. That is how HE saw her. (actually her hair looked pretty messy to me lol I just wanted to brush it for her while watching.) This flashback could've been an opportunity to set things right It isn't over though? It should still be going when the next episode opens. |
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| I really enjoyed this episode, knowing about Violet's past just makes you stick even more to the character. The scenes showing her killing without even hesitating the enemy, shows that she really was a weapon of war made to kill, and that was very strong, it is almost impossible to compare Violet from now with Violet of war, the feeling of love was able to make her want to discover new things, it is understood that so far she is still following the Major's order to live her life ... sad ==================================== Eu realmente gostei deste episódio, saber sobre o passado da Violet so faz voce se apegar mais ainda a personagem. As cenas mostrando ela matando sem ao menos hesitar o inimigo, mostra que ela realmente era uma arma de guerra feita pra matar, e isso foi bem forte, é quase impossivel comparar a Violet de agora com a Violet da guerra, o sentimento de amor foi capaz de fazer ela querer descobrir coisas novas, entende-se que até o momento ela ainda esta seguindo a ordem do Major de viver a vida dela ... triste |
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| Tbh, I'm not 100% sure if the adaptation will have Gilbert still being alive. There's a part of me that says he's dead for real in the adaptation, but I hope I'm wrong. |
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