| I don't get why people give shit to harem anime for having self insert characters when a good 50% of those people find hachiman to be a good character or even relate to him, mind you those people already relate to him in season 1, so it's not even a cause that thing happened in season 2 , they literally relate or find him to be a good character cause of his angtsy bs. He isn't season 1 of oregairu is bad, and hachiman is a bad character in season 1. This thread is done in honor of @manaban "Because he is literally that dumbass kid who thinks he has the inner mechanisms of everybody's minds figured out, and the way the narrative frames that sort of childish projecting he constantly does to everybody around him is through constantly proving him correct and basically turns him into this totally misunderstood jesus-figure who is the right one compared to all of these terrible, shallow people around him. "I took the blame and was the asshole and redirected everybody's hate onto me." "I jumped in front of a car and saved the puppy." They can give as much shallow lipservice as they want, but at the end of the day he's pretty much that sort of cringy pariah character and the narrative never hesitates to either turn him into a victim of a society or glorify him as this sort of do-gooder or prove his stupid, narrow projecting and understanding of human psychology into the correct stance." "it was like watching an author use a surrogate character to wallow around in the sort of self-pity and delusions of grandiuer you see in 13 and 14 year olds. It's an incredibly arrogant and self-centered work, but it's not even indulgent in its arrogance, it's just fucking whiny." "Hachiman seems like that sort of dumbass kid that a lot of people can end up being like when they're that age and kind of look back and cringe at themselves for years later" "That's kind of the issue They can give as much shallow lipservice as they want The fuck good is it to treat him as wrong when he's pretty much invariably portrayed as correct, everybody around him is an asshole, and he's basically a saint who gets hit by cars to save puppies They can sit there and beat their meat about "oh well i'm a terrible person" all they want but that doesn't really mean shit if they never adequately demonstrate it, almost exclusively demonstrating the opposite, it's borderline pointless to even include" and peace |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| I repeated myself and an example multiple times >_> Golden_Scarlett said: They can give as much shallow lipservice as they want Golden_Scarlett said: They can give as much shallow lipservice as they want man this is what it's like when you ask me to wall of text in the middle of an active discord chat before i've even had my coffee xP |
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| I like Hachiman because going for Totsuka is the only possible route. SMH Yukinofags and Yuifags. But then again, harem MCs are just so bad it hurts, meanwhile Hachiman is just dumb which what makes it acceptable. In short. MC harems won't fuck waifus. Hachiman will choose Totsuka All the self-insert beta cucks here on MAL chooses Totsuka It's a win-win as they say. But then again, a better self-insert character is just honestly kaos-chan. Especially when she says 'fuwa fuwa desu' ehhh last thing to add... now that you mentioned it, Zaregoto MC isn't as much better as Hachiman, though the former expresses himself more in a cynical and kind of a roundabout way of saying " I fucked up. I'll move on. I'll still fuck up. But hey, society's at fault here. Seriously not me; but I'll still fuck up. Too bad I couldn't fuck my childhood friend." |
_Ako_Aug 14, 2018 7:47 PM
| I'm surprised people haven't been branding him as "edgy" like almost every other character of his type but rather brand him as "relatable" |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| Fuck you, I love Hachiman. He's my man :>. I live on self-pity and delusions and whining so yeah, perfect char to self-insert. 10/10, would insert again. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Hachiman is a terrible MC through and through. His anime is overly melodramatic with TERRIBLE fucking characters and absolutely zero interesting story-telling other than teenage angst which a good amount of anime fans absolutely eat up...and that tells you why the anime was as popular as it was. IF you are self-inserting yourself into Hachiman...this is definitely not good, and your self-esteem has to be rock bottom. Hachiman is literally an anti-social, inferior-complex, consistently complaining about life loser. And it's not like he ever changes in the anime....and don't talk to me about LNs or whatever....no one reads that shit! |
| The concept of self insertion isn't bad in my books in the first place. Although, at least give it some personality that people can latch on to. This is where Hachiman's brand of self insertion is million times better. I actually did relate to him. He represented something that I've felt. I may think that what I've felt, this angst was childish but the fact remains that he represented that feeling. What use is fiction if it can't make us understand ourselves and our surroundings better? Hachiman's character sure made me do that. Any character that can make me do that is a good character. |
| Yeah still he's my man. Doesn't give a fuck about society and that fact is more than enough for me to like him as a character and even though he's not perfect, but that's what makes him relatable and likable. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| man why does this topic also have to do with self-insertion i just think he's a shit character |
|
| The problem isn't even the type of character.... there's Watashi from Tatami Galaxy which is basically the [i'm a really smart young adult who don't need others] but the show always makes sure to point out how wrong he's (it's actually the whole point of the show anyway). While Oregairu constantly tries to put him as some sort of hot shit making him save the day and receiving a harem of girls [and traps] whom understands how much of a golden heart he trully have |
| You know, this thread seems like an anti-Hachiman thread yet it's made me want to go do another rewatch. I'm not sure how I feel about that. |
greymood said: The problem isn't even the type of character.... there's Watashi from Tatami Galaxy which is basically the [i'm a really smart young adult who don't need others] but the show always makes sure to point out how wrong he's (it's actually the whole point of the show anyway). While Oregairu constantly tries to put him as some sort of hot shit making him save the day and receiving a harem of girls [and traps] who understands how much of a golden heart he trully have that's my opinion too :S, but it's not my thread so Manaban said: man why does this topic also have to do with self-insertion i just think he's a shit character cause you didn't let me do bait threads :S i mean what we learn here so far, is the few people that relate to him beside one dude know he's a childish angst whiny fckboi |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
Nithirel said: You know, this thread seems like an anti-Hachiman thread yet it's made me want to go do another rewatch. I'm not sure how I feel about that. how is it seem like one when it literally is one, good for you i guess, rewatch and see how right i am or try to prove me wrong /shrug |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
Golden_Scarlett said: Nithirel said: You know, this thread seems like an anti-Hachiman thread yet it's made me want to go do another rewatch. I'm not sure how I feel about that. how is it seem like one when it literally is one, good for you i guess, rewatch and see how right i am or try to prove me wrong /shrug That's the great thing about opinions. Everyone has them. |
nicethings said: there's no type of "edgy" that'll ever be as badly constructed a character as izaya orihara if anything izaya makes hachiman look like a scholar oh and ledouche the other edgelord i can't stand i'd rather have a hachiman edgelord over those two anyday ledouche wil be in a seperate thread, but #soon |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
| Well, I never liked Hachiman as character or Oregairu as anime. That's why I dropped that show. I still recommend people who enjoy SAO to watch Oregairu tho, because Kirito feels like Hachiman in a way or another. |
 |
| It's the incels that worship him, man. Not to say that everyone that likes him or the show is one. |
 |
| I swear you're misusing the term "self insert" even though you were the one to correct a lot of people on what it means, smh. |
     |
ReaperCreeper said: It's the incels that worship him, man. Not to say that everyone that likes him or the show is one. holy shit you're a genius An0nim said: Well, I never liked Hachiman as character or Oregairu as anime. That's why I dropped that show. I still recommend people who enjoy SAO to watch Oregairu tho, because Kirito feels like Hachiman in a way or another. explain how |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
Ericonator said: I swear you're misusing the term "self insert" even though you were the one to correct a lot of people on what it means, smh. plz, its the easiest way to get the point across for this thread, |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
Manaban said: man why does this topic also have to do with self-insertion i just think he's a shit character And I'm shit too so I can self-insert. Altho personally I prefer to say relate, but whatever. That's why it has to do with self-insertion. But man, rarely do you see a character that polarizing that people either really, really like, or just absolutely shit on. That alone makes him special imo :>. But honestly I think there's a lot of him in a lot of people. It's not the parts they're proud of usually, or not the ones they should be proud of at least, but his relatability can't be denied just based on how many people can relate to his views and attitudes, for better or worse. I think liking or hating him in many cases depends on whether the parts of you that he reminds you of are something you hate about yourself and want to suppress, or if you embrace or accept them. But personally I see a healthy dose of irrational, even contradictory frustration about society and other people in general as an essential part of the human experience. It doesn't have to be pretty or meaningful or constructive, but people who don't struggle with it are generally suspicious to me because of how big a part of my life it has been. And he kinda embodies that struggle in a, of course, very anime-fied way. That's why whenever somebody trashes his personality I just feel like 'Yes, you described why he's relatable.' That's just my drunken 2 cents tho. Feel free to keep hating him :> greymood said: The problem isn't even the type of character.... there's Watashi from Tatami Galaxy which is basically the [i'm a really smart young adult who don't need others] but the show always makes sure to point out how wrong he's (it's actually the whole point of the show anyway). While Oregairu constantly tries to put him as some sort of hot shit making him save the day and receiving a harem of girls [and traps] whom understands how much of a golden heart he trully have eh idk, Watashi seems like the more positive portrayal for me because you get the sense that, in the end, he might become happy (because he has a lot of tries). I don't think Hachiman is ever getting there tho on his one try. One of the key points of the show and his character for me is that how other people perceive you does not impact your happiness nearly as much as how you see yourself, which is something that's very true. So the 'harem' and stuff is irrelevant because he still wallows in self-pity and frustration about society and other people most of the time from his very ego-centric perspective. No matter how much the anime shapes the world around him in his favor, making him understood and even loved (two things not that many people get to experience), his perception of himself barely changes and he's still gonna stay unhappy, creating his own misery. Outside factors don't matter if you don't like yourself. If there's anything to take away from the show, I'd say that is one of its central messages. Tatami Galaxy is somewhat similar (albeit more complex and multifaceted), but less pessimistic because it gives the MC chances to learn and eventually there is a sense of positive, hopeful development that I've not gotten from Hachiman so far from what I've seen in the anime. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I also have to add that his 'I want something genuine' spiel in s2 still is very powerful for someone like me who has a hard time connecting with people irl or online. |
No, he isn't. He's like a watered down version, a poor man's Hachiman. I still liked him but not nearly as much. But I guess some people would prefer an, idk, milder version over Hachiman. The overall setting for that anime is also more forced than the regular school setting for Oregairu which just makes everything seem a bit too much, a bit more removed from reality, which doesn't work in favor of a character like that. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Self-insertion is a weird fetish that I don't get. |
 |
Pullman said: eh idk, Watashi seems like the more positive portrayal for me because you get the sense that, in the end, he might become happy (because he has a lot of tries). I don't think Hachiman is ever getting there tho on his one try. One of the key points of the show and his character for me is that how other people perceive you does not impact your happiness nearly as much as how you see yourself, which is something that's very true. So the 'harem' and stuff is irrelevant because he still wallows in self-pity and frustration about society and other people most of the time from his very ego-centric perspective. No matter how much the anime shapes the world around him in his favor, making him understood and even loved (two things not that many people get to experience), his perception of himself barely changes and he's still gonna stay unhappy, creating his own misery. Outside factors don't matter if you don't like yourself. If there's anything to take away from the show, I'd say that is one of its central messages. Tatami Galaxy is somewhat similar (albeit more complex and multifaceted), but less pessimistic because it gives the MC chances to learn and eventually there is a sense of positive, hopeful development that I've not gotten from Hachiman so far from what I've seen in the anime. The first part of what you said was more or less what i meant when i claimed that the problem itself isn't the type of character. I'm fairly introverted and usually overthink a lot of things that're basically day-to-day stuff; that to say, i feel more "perceptive" than some people - although without half of the pretense and angst from Hachiman. Seeing things on a different light is fairly normal for introverted people because you're usually the one staying out and observing rather than taking action. But when it comes to Oregairu it just feels like a masturbation section for people who think that this type of mindset makes them somewhat superior to others, when in reality it'll bring you so much problems (not just problems, thankfully, but anyway..). The events always wind up with Hachiman saving the day with his smartness and the girls getting pissed because he's sacrificing himself for others!!! while at the same time they're helplessly falling in love with him. It feels cheap. Watashi isn't exactly the same thing but i just wanted to point out how he was portrayed as a rather pathetic human being and how his troublesome mindset just bring him problems instead of winning him a harem typo |
llorandoAug 14, 2018 8:49 PM
| Well saying he has the delusions of a 13 and 14 year old isn’t too far off, second year of high school in Japan in 16 to 17 year old, so he IS still a teenager. Honestly I don’t insert myself in him, he’s not even my favorite character of the series. But what makes him so relatable is the fact that he is that way, that negative voice in the back of every teenager's mind, that voice that finds self-deprecation and sarcasm funny. What makes him even more interesting is WHY he became that way, which the anime does do a decent job of explaining. The first season is much more comedy centered, which is why it seems like he’s even more of an angry douche in the first season. The second season does make him seem much more human though, and he realizes his misguided ideals then. Another part of what people find make him relatable is his wit. Why do you think satirical books like Catch-22 are so popular? There is a good population of people just like his satire, which makes them want to be like him. That being said, nobody should WANT to be like Hachimann, something I don’t get, but it remains that Hachimann is a pretty funny character and smart character but very flawed as well. And for those saying that Hikigaya is relatable for people who think like this and feel they're superior, the Wataru is clear that all of Hikigaya's "solutions" are only at best temporary solutions, and sometimes not even actual solutions. Yukino is best girl though. Just saying. Totsuka literally has nothing in the anime except being cute, Saki is just a character to make merchandise of, Yui clearly won't win, and Iroha... sucks. |
HL2371Aug 14, 2018 8:56 PM
HL2371 said: And for those saying that Hikigaya is relatable for people who think like this and feel they're superior, the Wataru is clear that all of Hikigaya's "solutions" are only at best temporary solutions, and sometimes not even actual solutions. I actually putted in a really wrong light right here - and after i just stated that i do relate to him one way or another (still without my harem and the pretense i'm the hotest shit in the world, but still). What i meant to say is that there's a circlejerk around him being a "realistic" character that comes from a wave of angry teenagers [and young adults] who thinks exactly like him and also thinks that this is a cool thing. And god that irks me. @Pullman just so you read this part to |
llorandoAug 14, 2018 9:04 PM
greymood said: I actually putted in a really wrong light right here - and after i just stated that i do relate to him one way or another (still without my harem and the pretense i'm the hotest shit in the world, but still). What i meant to say is that there's a circlejerk around him being a "realistic" character that comes from a wave of angry teenagers [and young adults] who thinks exactly like him and also thinks that this is a cool thing. And god that irks me. Yeah, I don’t get the people who want to be him and find it "cool" to be like him, because he’s just so flawed and not exactly the greatest person. |
| Personally I think Hachiman feels like the ideal figure for those "it's just a phase, mom!" and "begone, thot!" types of teenagers. I know there are various reasons why people look up to him, but that's how I imagine most of his fans be like. Everyone in that show not named Iroha is shit anyways, but that's besides the point. |
 |
greymood said: What i meant to say is that there's a circlejerk around him being a "realistic" character that comes from a wave of angry teenagers [and young adults] who thinks exactly like him and also thinks that this is a cool thing. I think it has something to do with the amount of 'weak' male main characters in SoL shows and it helps make Hachiman stand out. Though I guess you could call him weak in other areas... |
join the hyper going home club!  |
Pullman said: No, he isn't. He's like a watered down version, a poor man's Hachiman. I still liked him but not nearly as much. But I guess some people would prefer an, idk, milder version over Hachiman. The overall setting for that anime is also more forced than the regular school setting for Oregairu which just makes everything seem a bit too much, a bit more removed from reality, which doesn't work in favor of a character like that. Oh, I'm sorry I should mention that I didn't watch Oregairu so don't know anything |
| Really? I interpreted a show in a completely different light than you. It's incredibly obvious to see the flaws in Hachiman's behavior since the very beginning. Pretty much the entire reason why the show is funny is because he is constantly being punished because of his ideology, almost as if the world itself is going out of it's way to punish him for it. At least that's how the first season is. Not only that, but even though things generally go over smooth for him in the first season, it's made blatantly clear to him the flaws of his beliefs in the second season, where things get less comical and more dramatic. Perhaps it's easy for cynics to self-insert into Hachiman, but regardless of that he's a character that can stand on his own merits in my opinion. Take my word for it, I've seen practically every single anime romance comedy there is and it still holds up. I'd love to hear your criticisms and to see where you got the idea that the show is putting him on a pedestal rather than kicking him down at every turn. Oh yeah, and as a last point I don't think it's that accurate to call this a harem, it's more of a love triangle than anything else. |
Snot-nosed_BratAug 14, 2018 9:48 PM
| Too bad I am a sociopath who can only self-insert as Rance |
 πππ«π«π π±π¬π²π π₯ πΆπ¬π², πππ«π±π¦π«' πΆπ¬π² π΄π¦π±π₯ ππ©π© πͺπΆ πͺπ¦π€π₯π± ______________________ |
| No idea, I've mixed feelings about him. A part of me hates his character. But the other part likes his character, and feels a bit relatable. |
 |
| i for one always self inserted into yukinoshita |
 |
greymood said: Pullman said: eh idk, Watashi seems like the more positive portrayal for me because you get the sense that, in the end, he might become happy (because he has a lot of tries). I don't think Hachiman is ever getting there tho on his one try. One of the key points of the show and his character for me is that how other people perceive you does not impact your happiness nearly as much as how you see yourself, which is something that's very true. So the 'harem' and stuff is irrelevant because he still wallows in self-pity and frustration about society and other people most of the time from his very ego-centric perspective. No matter how much the anime shapes the world around him in his favor, making him understood and even loved (two things not that many people get to experience), his perception of himself barely changes and he's still gonna stay unhappy, creating his own misery. Outside factors don't matter if you don't like yourself. If there's anything to take away from the show, I'd say that is one of its central messages. Tatami Galaxy is somewhat similar (albeit more complex and multifaceted), but less pessimistic because it gives the MC chances to learn and eventually there is a sense of positive, hopeful development that I've not gotten from Hachiman so far from what I've seen in the anime. The first part of what you said was more or less what i meant when i claimed that the problem itself isn't the type of character. I'm fairly introverted and usually overthink a lot of things that're basically day-to-day stuff; that to say, i feel more "perceptive" than some people - although without half of the pretense and angst from Hachiman. Seeing things on a different light is fairly normal for introverted people because you're usually the one staying out and observing rather than taking action. But when it comes to Oregairu it just feels like a masturbation section for people who think that this type of mindset makes them somewhat superior to others, when in reality it'll bring you so much problems (not just problems, thankfully, but anyway..). The events always wind up with Hachiman saving the day with his smartness and the girls getting pissed because he's sacrificing himself for others!!! while at the same time they're helplessly falling in love with him. It feels cheap. Watashi isn't exactly the same thing but i just wanted to point out how he was portrayed as a rather pathetic human being and how his troublesome mindset just bring him problems instead of winning him a harem typo Nah I personally never saw him as a cool character, I also don't think it's some sort of masturbation session(although in the beginning it sort of is) for people who think that way because literally the second season proves that his views on the world don't really matter all that much and most of the time they won't really completely solve the problem. Oregairu is kind of like Evangelion giving you the escapism you need but then completely destroying it afterwards, while I can see how some people may have interpreted this in the wrong way I think his character was purposely made less human to say what the show wanted to say and I think it worked quite well. Watashi and Hachiman are like Asuka and Shinji having the same problems but being completely different at the same time. |
| i can said same for, evangelion, NHK ni youkoso, GTO, and sayonara zetsubou sensei. but hey, i don't judge... i just laugh at people who are contradicts with it... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Kuma said: i can said same for, evangelion, NHK ni youkoso, GTO, and sayonara zetsubou sensei. but hey, i don't judge... i just laugh at people who are contradicts with it... dawg plz, i said nothing =/ i dont mind 8man |
| It's good that Slop leveling won the CR awards with such a power gap, Gaijin Weebs don't deserve good anime. Not after what they did to frieren, kusuriya, and many others |
Golden_Scarlett said: Kuma said: i can said same for, evangelion, NHK ni youkoso, GTO, and sayonara zetsubou sensei. but hey, i don't judge... i just laugh at people who are contradicts with it... dawg plz, i said nothing =/ i dont mind 8man i don't mind with those anime either... |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Over 40 post and no picture of Hachiman. I forgot who that is but I'm sure his harem was a fun ride for me. |
| > Hachiman is not better than any other self insert characters Hachiman is a comedy character, and he does that right. He is quite funny with his over-the-top speeches and how he fails to make everyone miserable, making them happy instead. Not every main character is as fitting to the story. Sure, Hachiman with his misantropy does resonate with a part of our souls somewhere. Any good character should do so. I would not call him "self-insert" just because of that. In fact, the term "self-insert" seems overused. Every good character is similar to some living person. Most of them still have discernible personalities and qualities, and sometimes you just find a character similar to yourself. For every person who finds oneself similar to Generic Harem Protagonist #125, there is another one who finds him weird and unbearable. hazecloud said: Over 40 post and no picture of Hachiman. I forgot who that is but I'm sure his harem was a fun ride for me. https://myanimelist.net/character/67065/Hachiman_Hikigaya Dead-fish eyes, snarky words, lots of pessimism. The kind of guy you can find everywhere in the grim darkness of the modern world. |
| 8man is a funny take on a nihilist. That's something you rarely see in anime. |
| The show doesn't really idolize him for it though, it is very clear that even though he thinks he is right and he usually gets the ends he wants, that his means are terrible and unsustainable. he isn't shown as always right, in fact it is often as if his methods and ideology are wrong but can produce results, and he knows how to use them to make results. I have met many people online in anime communities who like Hachiman and even the most similar to him acknowledge that the show isn't really idealizing his lifestyle, and the overarching narrative and goal seems to be to change him to be less of an edgy ass in the way that makes him an edgy teenager's self insert character. he may not be one that you like or relate to, but many fans of the show do like him and relate to him, and it isn't in the same blind way people like and relate to a character like kirito because Hachiman has a real depth to him and his actions that is explained and explored and even changed over the course of the series as others influence him. |
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