| I often ask people why it's horrible to kill dogs or cats for food. They never answer logically. The funniest answer is "these animal are not meant to be food, they are meant to be man's friend". Meant by who? God? Your religion? Your culture? In my opinion, if you're not vegetarian you have no right to criticize what meat others eat. |
| I ate horses and donkeys a bunch of times. It's no biggie, they all taste the fucking same. |
| There is really just one factor that comes into play which is the relation between the animals and the humans. An animal that is someone's pet is tied to the emotions of a human. You hurt the animal you hurt the human. Now this isn't to say that non pet animals can't also be tied to humans but it's less on a personal level and more a general sympathy. Of course the intelligence and emotional capacity of the animal should matter as well though. Even in countries that eat cats and dogs hold those as pets different from those for food. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| There is no reason other than tradition. In the future, eating meat in general will likely be increasingly stigmatized, and advancements will create substitutes. |
 I can see you |
| Hypocrisy fueled by tradition, nothing more. |
Only_Brad said: You said it yourself, it's cultural.I often ask people why it's horrible to kill dogs or cats for food. They never answer logically. The funniest answer is "these animal are not meant to be food, they are meant to be man's friend". Meant by who? God? Your religion? Your culture? In my opinion, if you're not vegetarian you have no right to criticize what meat others eat. At some point, people recognized the value that certain animals can provide to us on a personal level, so these animals now enjoy special protection. Pets are hugely benefitial to the emotional development of a child, for example. They also have psychological benefits for adults and elders, as they provide comfort, can prevent loneliness, and can even heal trauma to some extent. So that's what we use pets for, and the special consideration we extend to them is a natural consequence of the role they play for us. Does that seem logical enough to you? CondemneDio said: how is it hypocritical? Pets clearly fulfill a different role than say.. farm animals. It'd be hypocritical if there was no difference between these groups, but as I've described above, this clearly isn't true. Unless you want to make the case that cows and pigs are just as suited for everyone to use as pets as cats, lol.Hypocrisy fueled by tradition, nothing more. traed said: I don't really buy that one. Pigs are a lot more intelligent than both cats and dogs, and yet nobody gives a flying fuck about them. I agree that intelligence and emotional capacity should matter, but it seems as if it doesn't really.Of course the intelligence and emotional capacity of the animal should matter as well though. Even in countries that eat cats and dogs hold those as pets different from those for food. What matters is how good we can relate to the animals, and well, not being tasty also helps. |
Railey2Aug 28, 2019 1:00 PM
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| Because there are animals we humanize and those we don't. Usually the former is linked to a close relationship with humans and the latter is not. Some look at a pet and say 'look, he's smiling/sad/happy/jealous', feelings mostly tied to a human. Some look at a cow and may say 'look, it's cute' but cute isn't a trait inherently human. So, if people see some animals as closer to humans, they'll want to give them human rights too, which means no torture, no murder, dignity, whatever. Other animals are looked at as property, like cows, pigs, chickens. Even then, there are people who develop close bonds to one of these, therefore humanize them and wish not to kill them under any circumstances. A crazy example, but I think you'll get the gist of it. Picture those guys that marry their anime doll waifu. They give it human emotions, therefore humanize them. They treat it as people. They won't throw away their anime doll. Does this mean they think all dolls are humans? Probably not, only the ones they have humanized. |
KosmonautAug 28, 2019 1:12 PM
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Railey2 said: CondemneDio said: how is it hypocritical? Pets clearly fulfill a different role than say.. farm animals. It'd be hypocritical if there was no difference between these groups, but as I've described above, this clearly isn't true. Unless you want to make the case that cows and pigs are just as suited for everyone to use as pets as cats, lol.Hypocrisy fueled by tradition, nothing more. What makes you think a pig or a cow isn't a suitable pet animal, other than their size? |
CondemneDio said: Because most people associate pigs and cows with edible meat. It's a tradition and a tendency of humans to prefer past notions over new ones. Plus, cows aren't cool. Unless it was an El Toro, then that's a pass.Railey2 said: how is it hypocritical? Pets clearly fulfill a different role than say.. farm animals. It'd be hypocritical if there was no difference between these groups, but as I've described above, this clearly isn't true. Unless you want to make the case that cows and pigs are just as suited for everyone to use as pets as cats, lol. What makes you think a pig or a cow isn't a suitable pet animal, other than their size? |
Railey2 said: traed said: I don't really buy that one. Pigs are a lot more intelligent than both cats and dogs, and yet nobody gives a flying fuck about them. I agree that intelligence and emotional capacity should matter, but it seems as if it doesn't really.Of course the intelligence and emotional capacity of the animal should matter as well though. Even in countries that eat cats and dogs hold those as pets different from those for food. What matters is how good we can relate to the animals, and well, not being tasty also helps. I said should. I didn't say it necisarilly is. I think it depends on the breed of dog or pig I would think and how cognitively stimulated they are. I'm unsure where cats rank but they too will varry. So even within same species you have variation. Mussels, clams and oysters are the least intelligent animals people often eat as far as we judge aside from insects though insects it's more complicated to judge because they sometimes have a hive mind so one shouldn't think of them only as individuals. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
CondemneDio said: Their size is already a HUGE reason and sufficient by itself.Railey2 said: how is it hypocritical? Pets clearly fulfill a different role than say.. farm animals. It'd be hypocritical if there was no difference between these groups, but as I've described above, this clearly isn't true. Unless you want to make the case that cows and pigs are just as suited for everyone to use as pets as cats, lol. What makes you think a pig or a cow isn't a suitable pet animal, other than their size? The financial strain of a pet cow would be insane, think of all the hay you have to buy, then you also have to have a place to keep it, which is again insane, it's not like you can cuddle it easily, it shits everywhere.. and you can't keep it.. inside, unlike cats. Like you better have a motherfucking field for it to graze on, or you can say goodbye to your pet cow, lmao. There are close to 100 million cats living as pets in the US. Do you think 100 million cows or 100 million pigs would work just as well? I'm surprised you're even asking. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
Yarub said: CondemneDio said: Because most people associate pigs and cows with edible meat. It's a tradition and a tendency of humans to prefer past notions over new ones. Plus, cows aren't cool. Unless it was an El Toro, then that's a pass.What makes you think a pig or a cow isn't a suitable pet animal, other than their size? But that's just the thing, it's hypocritical to say it's traditional to eat some meat bevause it's the tradition. Railey2 said: CondemneDio said: Their size is already a HUGE reason and sufficient by itself.What makes you think a pig or a cow isn't a suitable pet animal, other than their size? The financial strain of a pet cow would be insane, think of all the hay you have to buy, then you also have to have a place to keep it, which is again insane, it's not like you can cuddle it easily, it shits everywhere.. and you can't keep it.. inside, unlike cats. Like you better have a motherfucking field for it to graze on, or you can say goodbye to your pet cow, lmao. There are close to 100 million cats living as pets in the US. Do you think 100 million cows or 100 million pigs would work just as well? I'm surprised you're even asking. Step 1. Live on a farm. Step 2. Grow stuff. Step 3. Get a dank pet cow. Step 4. ??? Step 5. People want to eat your pet. For real though, it's good you're thinking of the utility of the situation, and not trying to argue certain animals don't have feelings or something. |
| Nothing is horrible, and morality exists not objectively, only in the mind of people. |
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CondemneDio said: You're correct that cows CAN be viable pets, but they can't be viable pets for all of society, so that's why it sadly wasn't enough for them to have the cultural favour end up on their side, haha.Yarub said: Because most people associate pigs and cows with edible meat. It's a tradition and a tendency of humans to prefer past notions over new ones. Plus, cows aren't cool. Unless it was an El Toro, then that's a pass. But that's just the thing, it's hypocritical to say it's traditional to eat some meat bevause it's the tradition. Railey2 said: Their size is already a HUGE reason and sufficient by itself. The financial strain of a pet cow would be insane, think of all the hay you have to buy, then you also have to have a place to keep it, which is again insane, it's not like you can cuddle it easily, it shits everywhere.. and you can't keep it.. inside, unlike cats. Like you better have a motherfucking field for it to graze on, or you can say goodbye to your pet cow, lmao. There are close to 100 million cats living as pets in the US. Do you think 100 million cows or 100 million pigs would work just as well? I'm surprised you're even asking. Step 1. Live on a farm. Step 2. Grow stuff. Step 3. Get a dank pet cow. Step 4. ??? Step 5. People want to eat your pet. For real though, it's good you're thinking of the utility of the situation, and not trying to argue certain animals don't have feelings or something. And thanks man, you wouldn't catch me arguing that certain animals don't have feelings. That'd be such a dumb argument to make. Tbf pet cows are super dank. I can hardly imagine an animal more dank than a cow.^ This is the equivalent of questioning mathematical axioms when people are discussing calculus. Why are you even bothering? |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
| @Railey2 Question asked a justification to a judgement often voiced. Denying its premise, would deny the judgement. And my answer targetted morality as the reason given. I bothered because this is the answer I deem correct. |
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| I just don't eat pussy that walks on four legs, especially after it eats its own ass. |
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Lolsebca said: well you're incorrect, because there can actually be no confirmation that existence is real.@Railey2 Question asked a justification to a judgement often voiced. Denying its premise, would deny the judgement. And my answer targetted morality as the reason given. I bothered because this is the answer I deem correct. You're talking about minds, but with that you're presupposing that minds exist, which objectively speaking, you have no real way of knowing. Therefore, everything you just said is wrong. Do you see now how unconstructive this line of thought is? It's such a waste of time. |
| *lampoons inwardly* |
Dogs and cats are FAMILY. You don't eat family members, okay. Railey2 said: Pigs are a lot more intelligent than both cats and dogs, and yet nobody gives a flying fuck about them. That's because they're ugly, fat, and smell bad. xD Just like cows. |
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| I mean, it's horrible to eat any animal with high levels of sentience and capacity for pain as far as I'm concerned. But that's probably not a very satisfactory answer. If I were to think why this discrepancy exist for other people, I'd say mainly because of the accessibility of dogs and cats as pets existing since time immemorial and it being kind of ingrained in our way of thinking. That and their expressiveness invoking a sense of sympathy from us as they're alike us in that respect. Oh and @shotz you may wanna hop in. Hopefully I'm not bothering with the ping. |
AuronAug 28, 2019 1:52 PM
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| No reason. It's just people applying their completely subjective personal views and cultural values to everyone else and erroneously assuming they are or should be universal or expecting people to abide by them, which of course they will not and instead the moralizing busybodies will be met with dismissal, derision, or even hostility if they force the issue and try to impose their values on others. It's also a case of people anthropomorphizing animals and assigning arbitrary value to them in some artificial hierarchy based on arbitrary human considerations and relevant only in their own minds. Usually Westerners who eat beef, pork, and poultry talking down to and demonizing East Asians like Koreans, Vietnamese, and Chinese for eating cats and dogs. That Jews and Muslims consider pork consumption to be filthy and barbaric or that Hindus the same for beef, not to mention Jains or people who are even secular or atheistic but practice vegetarianism or veganism for other reasons equally consider them to be ignorant and barbarous or even evil is lost on them. They're complete morally self-righteous hypocrites. You'll never get a more satisfying answer out of them other than some variation of "because I said so" or "because that's the way it is" for why they hold their beliefs. They consider dogs and cats off-limits because they're a pet in the West and maybe they'd extend this to some wild species they consider intelligent like dolphins or whales or just some animals they randomly and arbitrarily believe you shouldn't eat "just because" they didn't growing up, like bush meat/monkeys or flesh of a carnivorous species. Has science even borne out that they're the "most" intelligent? Pigs show signs of remarkable intelligence and memory and pattern recognition above that of dogs, but the same people eat pork. And what metric is being used for gauging intelligence? Is it possible within modern science to have one that isn't anthropocentric? I doubt one species can objectively judge the intelligence of another it cannot even properly communicate with. Thus, the reasoning is always very emotional and primitive and doesn't go beyond that or stand up to logical scrutiny for a fraction of a second. After a while, you get tired of going in circles dealing with such reflexively self-righteous perpetually outraged moralizer ignoramus types and just ignore their nonsense. I don't consider it as somehow any worse to kill and eat one animal for your sustenance and pleasure more than any other. The members of any one species' life are not inherently more valuable than another, and I'd controversially extend that to even humans. Trying meats that aren't widely available outside of certain regions is a hobby of mine. I've had turtle, bear, armadillo, pronghorn, camel, dove, alligator, beaver, muskrat, raccoon, silkworms, jellyfish, reindeer, frog, muskox, iguana, Burmese python, and emu, to name a few, in addition to all the more common animals like beef/chicken/pork/turkey/lamb/goat/duck/rabbit (last two are becoming increasingly rare in the U.S. with decline of rustic cookbooks prevalence from the hunting culture, so now it's more limited to ethnic restaurants and small town places). If I get the opportunity to travel to North or South Korea, I'll try bosintang. If I find myself in Taiji where they have that famed controversial hunt in the cove, I'll try dolphin sashimi. Also this extends to any of the organs and derivative products like brain, blood, kidneys, etc. Only thing I'll never touch again is intestines. So yes, the best thing to do is step over the ideologue preachers with your own active decisions. Don't expect any cogent defense from them. Dismantle them rhetorically if you're up for the alternating sport and tedium of it. Otherwise live unperturbed by and in complete contradiction to their values as you see fit and you'll soon find them and their entire arguments built on quicksand and grandstanding a non-factor. |
WatchTillTandavaAug 28, 2019 2:28 PM
| Dogs were created via a type of artificial selection. Humans started breeding them from wolves as far back as 19,000 years ago. They have been with us for that long. Eating a species that has been a companion to yours for such a long time is quite literally betrayal. Likewise, cats were first domesticated nearly 10,000 years ago, so the same concept applies. Just imagine the horror of killing and eating a pet you loved for years. |
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*shrugs* Humans have always been pretty shallow...but aside from that, we don't really have 'companionship' with pigs and cows like we do with cats, dogs, and horses. That has a lot to do with it as well. after all, SOME cats and dogs are ugly and smelly too but we love them cause they're ours. |
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| Eating any sort of animal is aesthetically awful SadMadoka said: Dogs were created via a type of artificial selection. Humans started breeding them from wolves as far back as 19,000 years ago. They have been with us for that long. Eating a species that has been a companion to yours for such a long time is quite literally betrayal. Likewise, cats were first domesticated nearly 10,000 years ago, so the same concept applies. Just imagine the horror of killing and eating a pet you loved for years. All farm animals are also domesticated, do you eat any of those? |
UnoPuntoCincoAug 28, 2019 3:11 PM
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| Some people don't eat pork, some don't eat dogs, some don't eat cows, etc. You gotta eat to survive at the end of the day. I think we should also eat bugs. Why limit ourselves to some select mammals and fish, insects can be very good sources of protein and other such nutrients that scientists say i should be getting in my diet. |
| "Few, but ripe." - C.F. Gauss |
UnoPuntoCinco said: All farm animals are also domesticated, do you eat any of those? That's not the point; it's that cats and dogs have been pets and companions to humans for so long. I don't know if there's a word for "pet domesticated" that excludes farm animals. |
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SadMadoka said: Plenty of farmers befriend their livestock, specially cows, they behave just like dogsUnoPuntoCinco said: All farm animals are also domesticated, do you eat any of those? That's not the point; it's that cats and dogs have been pets and companions to humans for so long. I don't know if there's a word for "pet domesticated" that excludes farm animals. |
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| if people would starve then would eat anything but now we eat more delicious food if dogs or cats were so tasty we would have them in supermarkets |
UnoPuntoCinco said: Plenty of farmers befriend their livestock, specially cows, they behave just like dogs That does not apply to most people. I am talking about a phenomenon that applies to humanity as a whole. |
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| I just can't think of something like a cat or dog as "food". I've been brought up seeing those animals as pets, as members of the family. Don't eat your family. |
GatesOfOblivion said: I value creatures and encourage people to go vegetarian. It doesn't have to be full vegan if they're not ready for it. The lack of empathy from some posters in this topic repulses me. Cows, and chickens are fully domesticated animals. There are no wild cows and chickens. That means if no one ate cows and chickens there would be no more cows and chickens or we would have an invasive species. So it's not so black and white simple. Also cows are a huge source of methane gas which is a green house gas so choosing to have cows as an invasive species is from a broader point of view not as ethical as letting them go extinct. Veganism as a code of ethics is not logical. Harvesting eggs from chickens doesn't hurt them just some of the processes involved related to it. Milking cows doesn't hurt them just the heavily industrialized method does. The problem lies in the methodology not the act itself. |
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SadMadoka said: Do you not see the circularity? you've said that "pet" animals are supposed to be pets because they are pets and farm animals are meant to be livestock because they are livestockUnoPuntoCinco said: Plenty of farmers befriend their livestock, specially cows, they behave just like dogs That does not apply to most people. I am talking about a phenomenon that applies to humanity as a whole. |
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| Do dogs and cats even taste nice? What wine would compliment dog steak? |
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Rinoael said: I don't like the taste of most vegetables so I would have a serious problem of lack of nutrients YEAH. F*ck that noise. I need meat. I'm already dangerously underweight and I hate vegetables and most other sources of protein except for soybeans. If I stopped eating meat, I would f*cking die. My doctor already yelled at me for a lack of iron so now I begrudgingly eat fresh spinach. It's pretty gross though and COOKED spinach is even worse. You know what's really annoying? Vegans/vegetarians trying to FORCE their eating styles on other people "because ethics". Don't talk to me about ETHICS; lots of animals would DIE without humans controlling their population. You wanna just eat plants; whatever. I AM NOT YOU. Don't go around telling people how to eat! D:< Not only will we not listen; we will probably rebel even more because it pisses us off. The lack of empathy from some posters in this topic repulses me. @GatesofOblivion Yeah, well vegetables and veg-heads who push them onto other people "repulse" me. I don't think lack of empathy is the issue here; it's lack of edible food. If a squash tasted like a hamburger and had the protein, there'd be no issue here. But a squash tastes like shit. :( |
ChiibiAug 28, 2019 6:10 PM
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shotz said: i'm glad we have selfless environmental stewards like u around to advocate for the survival of these endangered species. COWS are not ENDANGERED species....are you high? Seriously, if people stopped slaughtering cows and just let all of them live so they keep reproducing more and more and more cows, do you have ANY idea how f*cked the planet would be? |
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shotz said: i doubt that cows in the wild naturally mating could ever get close to having the same environmental impact as industrial agriculture. even if it was possible, nature has its ways of taking care of that. Here's the problem: Cows are too BIG; thus they have no natural enemies. They would just keep reproducing and eating and growing and we would have NO grass. That would be extremely bad. @Katagari: DON'T YOU DARE TALK SHIT ABOUT CHIHUAHUAS; I GOT A BABY; SHE'S ADORABLE. yes, pugs are ugly. |
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UnoPuntoCinco said: Do you not see the circularity? you've said that "pet" animals are supposed to be pets because they are pets and farm animals are meant to be livestock because they are livestock No, I never said that; I simply stated the state of affairs. Since they have been pets for thousands of years, humanity holds them dear to their hearts. |
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| @GatesofOblivion: I'm glad you're not one of the crazies. xD @Peaceful_Critic; funny you mention milk because drinking it straight nowadays is doing more harm to humans than good it seems. As a grown adult? I can't drink it like that anymore....I've become intolerant. x_X THREE of my friends are the same age and have the same problem. They have predators Chickens, sure but PLEASE tell me what animal you think can possibly take down a cow that LIVES abundantly in the USA? JERKS KILLED ALL THE F*CKIN WOLVES....those are very endangered to this day. :( |
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| There is no moral reason for demonizing the consumption of animals that are usually pets; it's just hard to swallow (pun intended) the idea of eating something you consider a friend or the relative of a friend. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
Chiibi said: Rinoael said: I don't like the taste of most vegetables so I would have a serious problem of lack of nutrients YEAH. F*ck that noise. I need meat. I'm already dangerously underweight and I hate vegetables and most other sources of protein except for soybeans. If I stopped eating meat, I would f*cking die. My doctor already yelled at me for a lack of iron so now I begrudgingly eat fresh spinach. It's pretty gross though and COOKED spinach is even worse. You know what's really annoying? Vegans/vegetarians trying to FORCE their eating styles on other people "because ethics". Don't talk to me about ETHICS; lots of animals would DIE without humans controlling their population. You wanna just eat plants; whatever. I AM NOT YOU. Don't go around telling people how to eat! D:< Not only will we not listen; we will probably rebel even more because it pisses us off. The lack of empathy from some posters in this topic repulses me. @GatesofOblivion Yeah, well vegetables and veg-heads who push them onto other people "repulse" me. I don't think lack of empathy is the issue here; it's lack of edible food. If a squash tasted like a hamburger and had the protein, there'd be no issue here. But a squash tastes like shit. :( Ever heard of breads, pastas, fried rice, pizza? Hell, go crazy and munch on some cake and cookies. You said you like soybeans, plenty of soy based foods out there with decent number of calories. There are plenty of high calorie based foods that taste pretty good that aren't meat. Maybe do some protein shakes or take up a soda habit. I mean, I'm underweight too because my metabolism burns everything in sight but its ridiculous with all the kinds of food out there to say you would die if you didn't eat meat. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Chiibi said: I'm not going to vouch for the idea of vegetarianism or veganism in those that don't wish to partake (I can't stomach the idea), however I did want to mention that if you're underweight, protein consumption means very little without exercise.Rinoael said: I don't like the taste of most vegetables so I would have a serious problem of lack of nutrients YEAH. F*ck that noise. I need meat. I'm already dangerously underweight and I hate vegetables and most other sources of protein except for soybeans. If I stopped eating meat, I would f*cking die. My doctor already yelled at me for a lack of iron so now I begrudgingly eat fresh spinach. It's pretty gross though and COOKED spinach is even worse. You know what's really annoying? Vegans/vegetarians trying to FORCE their eating styles on other people "because ethics". Don't talk to me about ETHICS; lots of animals would DIE without humans controlling their population. You wanna just eat plants; whatever. I AM NOT YOU. Don't go around telling people how to eat! D:< Not only will we not listen; we will probably rebel even more because it pisses us off. The lack of empathy from some posters in this topic repulses me. @GatesofOblivion Yeah, well vegetables and veg-heads who push them onto other people "repulse" me. I don't think lack of empathy is the issue here; it's lack of edible food. If a squash tasted like a hamburger and had the protein, there'd be no issue here. But a squash tastes like shit. :( I also would not usually recommend carbs or sugar because that's the core of the american obesity epidemic, but if you're underweight, you should focus more on those. Carbs and sugar will make you hungrier. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
GatesOfOblivion said: @Chiibi I said the lack of care for animal lives repulsed me that a few members have shown in here. And i am not forcing anybody to make lifestyle changes they are unable to maintain. Don't think of me as one of the crazies. I know how difficult it is to adapt to something when society's done very little to make it easier. But one must try. Otherwise change will never come. @Traed That's why i said you don't have to go full vegan to make positive change. @Rinoael I know, i am sorry for not making myself more clear. It wasn't directed to people who are well intentioned and struggle with finding substitutes for meat. Actually you don't even have to be vegetarian. As I've mentioned earlier things like mussels, clams, and oysters are literally brainless animals and the main argument by vegans and vegetarians is pain and suffering. Though theoretically something without a brain can feel pain in a different way but that would also apply to plants not just animals so veganism wouldn't go far enough and one would need to be fruitarian to be consistent. Also reducing meat consumption has an impact. Also depends on the type of meat of an animal with a brain. Chicken is more environmentally ethical than beef since cows take more space and because chickens aren't as intelligent that also makes them not as bad to eat from that standpoint. Then there also is freeganism and the buddhist version of vegetarianism where what is eaten may differ by circumstances in the moment. A buddhist monk may eat meat if it's an offering and freegans can eat all the meat they want without financing the meat industry because they get their food free eating throwaways. Peaceful_Critic said: traed said: The life of livestock is far worse than death. Cows and chickens aren't going to be an invasive species if they were theoretically let out. They have predators and being fully domesticated they aren't going to live out in the wild long since they were only adapted with food in mind.Cows, and chickens are fully domesticated animals. There are no wild cows and chickens. That means if no one ate cows and chickens there would be no more cows and chickens or we would have an invasive species. So it's not so black and white simple. Also cows are a huge source of methane gas which is a green house gas so choosing to have cows as an invasive species is from a broader point of view not as ethical as letting them go extinct. Veganism as a code of ethics is not logical. Harvesting eggs from chickens doesn't hurt them just some of the processes involved related to it. Milking cows doesn't hurt them just the heavily industrialized method does. The problem lies in the methodology not the act itself. Veganism(ethical) is to avoid the suffering of animals period. If the process of getting milk means killing the calf(so they don't take the milk), in most cases then that would ethically break the moral code of veganism. It's completely logical. Cows don't have predators all over where they are lol Chickens maybe since they can't fly much but roosters can be pretty aggressive and territorial so it's questionable some still. Pigs uhhhh no when a pig is set loose in the wild it actually turns into being more like a wild boar. There are several places wild boar are already a problem. And I already debunked veganism and vegetarianism in the strictest sense of ther terms as being logically flawed. I already explained such processes are not an absolute given and requirement for things like milk and egg production. As I already pointed out there even is literally brainless animals we eat. If vegans were logical they would be for changing of processes and for reduction of consumption of animal byproducts to make that possible rather than think it's inherently morally wrong to consume animal byproducts. They would advocate for the production of mussel, clams, and oysters as possible sources of protein instead of saying eating meat is murder. Oh and let's not forget honey is also an animal byproduct and that it can help restore damaged ecosystems to farm bees. |
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Korrvo said: Chiibi said: I'm not going to vouch for the idea of vegetarianism or veganism in those that don't wish to partake (I can't stomach the idea), however I did want to mention that if you're underweight, protein consumption means very little without exercise.YEAH. F*ck that noise. I need meat. I'm already dangerously underweight and I hate vegetables and most other sources of protein except for soybeans. If I stopped eating meat, I would f*cking die. My doctor already yelled at me for a lack of iron so now I begrudgingly eat fresh spinach. It's pretty gross though and COOKED spinach is even worse. You know what's really annoying? Vegans/vegetarians trying to FORCE their eating styles on other people "because ethics". Don't talk to me about ETHICS; lots of animals would DIE without humans controlling their population. You wanna just eat plants; whatever. I AM NOT YOU. Don't go around telling people how to eat! D:< Not only will we not listen; we will probably rebel even more because it pisses us off. @GatesofOblivion Yeah, well vegetables and veg-heads who push them onto other people "repulse" me. I don't think lack of empathy is the issue here; it's lack of edible food. If a squash tasted like a hamburger and had the protein, there'd be no issue here. But a squash tastes like shit. :( I also would not usually recommend carbs or sugar because that's the core of the american obesity epidemic, but if you're underweight, you should focus more on those. Carbs and sugar will make you hungrier. Meat is a much much bigger factor in the obesity epidemic than carbs are. Scientists looked at a group of meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans and found that eating meat increases your risk of obesity by 2-4 times even if they eat the same amount of calories. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetarians-slimmer-meat-eaters-weight_n_4039441 There's more to it than that though. Eating processed red meat causes your cholesterol to skyrocket to unhealthy levels, it increases your risk of heart attacks dramatically in people who eat too much of it, numerous cancers, and diabetes. From a health perspective, given the ridiculous amounts of unhealthy hormones and other shit that's put in industrialized meat products. You'd be better off eating cakes, cookies, and drinking sodas than eating that stuff. If you really are looking to be healthy, you need to cut as much meat, especially red meat, out of your diet. One of the biggest reasons why Americans are so unhealthy is because we eat more meat than any other country in the world. The only countries that can keep up with us, are, not surprisingly, Gulf Cooperation Middle Eastern nations that also have extremely high obesity rates like Kuwait, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. |
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Ryuk9428 said: This is completely false and what you linked gives the complete wrong message in it's wording.Meat is a much much bigger factor in the obesity epidemic than carbs are. Scientists looked at a group of meat eaters, vegetarians, and vegans and found that eating meat increases your risk of obesity by 2-4 times even if they eat the same amount of calories. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/vegetarians-slimmer-meat-eaters-weight_n_4039441 There's more to it than that though. Eating processed red meat causes your cholesterol to skyrocket to unhealthy levels, it increases your risk of heart attacks dramatically in people who eat too much of it, numerous cancers, and diabetes. From a health perspective, given the ridiculous amounts of unhealthy hormones and other shit that's put in industrialized meat products. You'd be better off eating cakes, cookies, and drinking sodas than eating that stuff. If you really are looking to be healthy, you need to cut as much meat, especially red meat, out of your diet. One of the biggest reasons why Americans are so unhealthy is because we eat more meat than any other country in the world. The only countries that can keep up with us, are, not surprisingly, Gulf Cooperation Middle Eastern nations that also have extremely high obesity rates like Kuwait, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. Not only did they fail to define what a meat eater is (how much eat are they eating? What other food are they eating?), but obviously people who are choosier about the type of food they eat are going to be healthier than those that aren't. Meat eater in the context of that article is essentially "people with no dietary constrictions" and look to pin the blame on meat by referring to them as meat eaters and by comparing them to vegetarians. Meat is a completely irrelevant factor here and is only in the spotlight as to forward an agenda, as eating habits and carb/sugar consumption are NOT measured. Look at people who go on completely carnivorous diets. They do so to lose weight and treat mental issues with great success. Look at people who go on Keto diets, and the exact same thing occurs (with minor differences but weight loss is a constant). Veggies are not the core in either of these diets, yet the proof is in the pudding. Meanwhile, if you look at the science and corprate america's backassward's manipulation of the food pyramid, you can see the cause of obesity very clearly comes from over-consumption of sugar and that of which gets broken down in your body as sugar, like carbohydrates. |
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