Kosmonaut said: It's bit more complicated than "grading scale", because those three are describing content and not explicitness. The scale describing how explicit that content is executed is the Rating field (PG-13, R, R+, Rx) already. Now the bummer: in my opinion, each of the tags exists in all those 4 rating steps. There's your silly PG-13 "accidental groping" school setting ecchi, there's nipple free R onsen, there's DxD grade R+ ecchi with nipples and heavily implied sex, and there's hentai comedy such as many 90s titles (Dragon Pink, Rance, ...) tagged Rx courtesy of the genitals gold standard. I'd call all of those ecchi despite PG-13 to Rx range, and define it as "comedic and playful use of sex and nudity" within a show that has actual plot.Wouldn't it be better to use it as a "grading" scale? If it's porn, it wouldn't have the erotica tag, because you can expect everything "below" it in the explicit genre spectrum. If it's erotica, it wouldn't have the ecchi tag for the same reason. You know, to avoid redundancy, contradiction (erotica isn't porn), and clogging the tags. The same scaling holds for the other two, just that the use of sex and nudity is different from ecchi. Ecchi implies playful, comedic use. Erotica also includes more serious but still mostly vanilla or at best teasing use of kink and mild fetishes. Hentai for me is plot-less display for the sake of display then. There's also a 4th version, exploitation. Some of the hardest sex and nudity outside hentai-land flies completely under the tagging radar in anime such as Wounded Man, Crying Freeman, or Violence Jack. Freeman's manga version under the new system is tagged "ecchi" now, which couldn't be more misleading. It's sex scenes are not playful and comedic at all, the last two episodes are as borderline hentai as it gets. For Wounded Man it's even worse as it has a lot of not consensual sex / rape, just without visible genitals, so it's R+ and not hentai. But tagging that "ecchi" for the manga feels horribly wrong to me. Neither is the show comedic (they are dead serious) nor is rape "playful". So rather than bending erotica, ecchi and hentai just use the 4th tag and make exploitation a proper "explicit" tag. The combination of sex, nudity and violence is a thing in anime, dozens of 80s and 90s title qualify. |
inimSep 16, 2021 6:37 AM
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Unowen said: Yes, I get it. I'm just pointing out that the coexistence of these tags, even if only in GL or BL so far, are contradictory to each other. Maybe something to watch out for, maybe something the mods are going to regulate better in the future... Unless they want to stick to hentai meaning strictly the presence of het porn (as it was possible to have yuri + hentai tags before), as it had been so far.Kosmonaut said: At the moment all the "Erotica" titles were previously Yuri or Yaoi, they simply swapped those with boys/girls love + erotica. Hence why the most explicit ones that also had Hentai as a tag now have both of them coexisting. It's also why there are no heterosexual Erotica titles in the database yet. Another thing, @Kineta. I do grasp the difference between ecchi, erotica, and hentai. What I don't understand is how it's possible to find in the db works tagged with both erotica and hentai, or even all three: ecchi, erotica, and hentai.  Wouldn't it be better to use it as a "grading" scale? If it's porn, it wouldn't have the erotica tag, because you can expect everything "below" it in the explicit genre spectrum. If it's erotica, it wouldn't have the ecchi tag for the same reason. You know, to avoid redundancy, contradiction (erotica isn't porn), and clogging the tags. @inim Yeah, I added to my previous post that I could see a case for coupling ecchi with any of the other two, because, as you said, it has its own conventions regarding tantalizing content. As you said, hentai would be more "plot-less" work (though I would argue it is more explicit than erotica, so a "grading" scale could still work) meant exclusively to elicit quick and easy sexual arousal in the audience, while in erotica sexual content is used more as a progression of the plot and character dynamics plus being sexually arousing to the audience. Having both present at the same time is saying it is simultaneously only meant for sexual arousal while... not being only for sexual arousal... Do you get my gripe with it? I don't think the presence of less common kinks makes a work cross the erotica/hentai threshold, because, as I said, the difference is in the very premise of the tags. You could display a vomit fetish, while still not having it be commercial pornography, but part of a coming of age story, for example. Same goes for exploitation. "Hardcore pornography" is still pornography, in a sense, but yeah, maybe a tag for the most extreme works would be in good taste, however maybe in the yet-to-come tag section, rather than the explicit genre one. |
KosmonautSep 16, 2021 6:25 AM
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 Yay! No more having to explain to users the difference between MAL's yuri & shoujo-ai tags and all the other baggage that went with it. The shoujo-ai tag was always cringe considering its totally different meaning in Japan (and misusing Yuri as only meaning explicit GL was almost as bad). I would lean toward just using Yuri & Yaoi for the "new" tags but this being a Western-targeted anime site I could understand why the longer "Girl's Love", "Boy's Love" terms were used instead (although, at first glance both terms are just as opaque as Yuri & Yaoi to new users: I mean Girl's Love(ing)...what exactly)? Something like "Girls x Girls"/"Boys x Boys" has clearer meaning. "Gay Girls" and "Gay Boys" would also work although "Gay Boys" has a derogatory history if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure MAL staff must've had some tortured back and forth before settling on "Girl's Love" and "Boy's Love". For that matter, "Ecchi" is a Japanese word and it was kept so why not "Yuri" and "Yaoi" then? Eh, whatever. Can't say for sure but it seems people don't make use of the Rating enough to distinguish between Smut & Ecchi (Hentai is obvious). I suppose there are other factors to a rating besides visual only, though. The Genre column is a welcome addition to my PTW: previously I was copy-pasting the tags into the, um, Tags column (imagine that) :) I've begun deleting all those redundant entries now but it's something I can pick away at over time. IDK anything about the user-voting yet or where it even happens but it could be good or bad, probably both. At first blush looks like a welcome change although I'll have to poke around the various search & filter options to test various search criteria. |
8oomerSep 16, 2021 8:57 AM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert.  |
| A rather daring move I would say, but definitely something that I can get behind. Only one problem though, I don't like the sound of "Boys Love" and "Girls Love". Maybe this change was made to maintain consistency with other genres (pretty much all of which are written in English) and avoid the difficulties of distinguishing Yaoi and Yuri from their more less erotic counterpart, but Shounen Ai and Shoujo Ai simply sound much, much better. @Kineta Is there any way I can simultaneously use the "Tag" section to add tags to certain anime/manga and write a mini review? |
ExperienceLD said: amagirinomikoto said: (asking for a friend) how do we go about finding every yaoi anime in one place at once? before you could just look under yaoi but now you need to advance search boys love + one of the three explicit genres. i checked and you cant search boys love + all three explicit genres at once bc it shows no results Marking all 3 genres would mean it has all 3, which obviously is not the case. You can just search for Shounen Ai (or now BL) to see all. Hentai, Erotica and Ecchi are to narrow down the search. Your "normal" Yaoi will be under Erotica, rarely (if at all) under Hentai. oooh okay i see now! i've never really needed to use the advance search feature so thank you for explaining this! |
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| If there are meta tags such as "Award Winning", could we also have a meta tag for "Lost Media"? |
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| Finally a much needed update. Ty to you and the team for all the hard work! That award winning genre needs to be removed tho. |
| Ultimately I think this is a good change but I don't like everything here. I'm sad about dementia being replaced by avant garde. It just feels wrong and pretentious. Dementia was a nice way of describing the weirdness of those series. Magic being removed is a crime. It's not synonymous with fantasy at all as both can exist without the other. Absolutely no reason not to just keep it as a theme. Music should be a genre as it's similar to sports in that it's the main focus of a series if it's included. Finally award winning should not be a genre. It's fine to have it as it's own section or something but having it as a genre is worse than having shounen as a genre ever was. It says nothing about the series itself and just means it's popular enough to receive a reward. |
on 
| Will there be more themes added in the future? I feel like having themes for healing/iyashikei, magical girl, and otherworld/isekai anime would be super helpful when searching for anime. Edit: One more thing I thought of that I've been wanting - a way to filter our own lists by genre! Sometimes I've wanted to look through my PTW for specific genres, but there's not really a way to automatically sort by genre afaik? |
sodapoplioSep 16, 2021 9:53 AM
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| The distinction between genres and themes is really stupid. The new genre list is larger than it needs to be, yet it still omits widely recognized genres. I suppose the implementation of themes will allow us to add the missing genres, compensating for the mods' incompetence. I also question the rational of "mods need to control 'gourmet' and 'work life' because users don't understand them." If those themes are really so confusing, why even add them? Tagging entries with phrases nobody knows defeats the entire purpose of tags. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Magic is a necessary, unique genre. Fantasy too, and they are not the same thing. |
Kineta said: Yes, we know how much you want Dark Mode. It affects every single page on the website and so is not an easy change to implement without significant backend work. Please understand that it will take time and you will likely see many new features/upgrades before Dark Mode is added. I don't know about the backend work, but can we help you at all with Dark Mode if we volunteer? - If you need selectors for the dark theme, I can just rip the selectors from numerous dark themes already tested and made, then we'll come up with the colors to darken the site. - I'm sure a lot of people would volunteer to help debug it and we can update it from there, I can organize such a group for you. - Plus there's many web tutorials on how to implement such a theme I can link you guys to if you need it. |
Shishio-kunSep 16, 2021 3:41 PM
| @Kineta so is this overhaul going to have any future changes to what is considered NSFM? The fact that ecchi is now an explicit genre and is being grouped with erotica and hentai, both of which are not included in the ranked DB, makes me worried that ecchi will soon follow suit and be taken out of the ranked DB. Given that the traditional justification for allowing ecchi content within profiles, clubs, and forums sets was that ecchi is in the DB alongside everything else, I just want to make sure that things will stay the same in that regard and ecchi will remain in the ranked DB despite being labeled as an explicit genre, and that ecchi content will still be allowed in terms of what is NSFM. |
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sodapoplio said: Turn on the new Genre column for your anime list (Edit Profile, List, check the Genre box, Submit).Edit: One more thing I thought of that I've been wanting - a way to filter our own lists by genre! Sometimes I've wanted to look through my PTW for specific genres, but there's not really a way to automatically sort by genre afaik? If you've got your list open in a window you'll have to refresh for the change take effect. Find at least one entry with the tag you want to filter and click on it. It takes a few seconds but your list will update to show only entries that have that tag. To reset go to the top of any section and click "reset filter". |
8oomerSep 16, 2021 10:32 AM
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert. |
"Award Winning" is not a story category. Even if it needs to be moderated, it still needs to stick to the definition of a "Genre". There are other ways to ensure a thing is correctly moderated. For example, just add a tab next to "More Info" where awards can be listed. |
  "An earnest failure has meaning." "Nothing is definite in this world. But it's okay. Some things within me are definite." |
8oomer said: sodapoplio said: Turn on the new Genre column for your anime list (Edit Profile, List, check the Genre box, Submit).Edit: One more thing I thought of that I've been wanting - a way to filter our own lists by genre! Sometimes I've wanted to look through my PTW for specific genres, but there's not really a way to automatically sort by genre afaik? If you've got your list open in a window you'll have to refresh for the change take effect. Find at least one entry with the tag you want to filter and click on it. It takes a few seconds but your list will update to show only entries that have that tag. To reset go to the top of any section and click "reset filter". Oh, thank you so much! That'll def come in handy in the future. |
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Kineta said: [*]Girls Love—old "Shoujo Ai" genre renamed. If you want to be more accurate then use yuri instead. What's the point of overhauling the tags if you are going to continue to use wrong ones? As an example of how tags are actually used in Japan: Yuri has 309,228 entries on pixiv https://www.pixiv.net/tags/%E7%99%BE%E5%90%88/artworks GL has 7,926 entries https://www.pixiv.net/tags/GL/artworks And Girl's Love has a mere 823 entries https://www.pixiv.net/tags/%E3%82%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BA%E3%83%A9%E3%83%96/artworks And of course even outside of Japan yuri is the most used term for anime lesbians, except on MAL where it's considered porn for some reason. |
NarmySep 16, 2021 6:00 PM
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sodapoplio said: Oh, thank you so much! That'll def come in handy in the future. Glad to be of help :) That aside, I found someone who liked Liz to Aoi Tori even more than I did. Jeez... :) |
| Avatar: Anzu Kadotani from Girls und Panzer. XMas awesomeness version by Charenji :) Sig by MissIntrovert. |
| Wouldn't it be far easier to just buy AniDB and work on integrating their stuff? Buy competitors! |
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Kineta said: If I missed answering any very specific questions you had for me even after reading this update, please mention me and I will try to answer as soon as I can. Can you comment on this? https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1956762&show=50#msg64406864 Themes like "time travel" can sometimes spoil the plot. Will there be obvious spoiler themes like "Main character dies"? |
| Thanks everyone for the thoughtful questions~ inim said: Yep, we're aware that some have been using the field this way. The person leading the development and I discussed this during planning. Until now, we've discussed making the Comments section its own column on the List so that users could both vote and write sentences which appear. I can't say anything definitively about migration yet, but we will try to make the process easy if we can.A word about migrating existing content in the tags field would be nice. As mentioned a lot of people use them as a notepad (of 256 chars) for e.g. reviews or thoughts. This is because the field is visible in the default layout, unlike the "comment" field which is meant for that. kuuderes_shadow said: Yes. If you are aware of some notable ones that we haven't been reporting on in the News section, please forward them to Snow or Vindstot. I suppose we've only been covering the Kono LN ga Sugoi rankings. Or if you have some retired awards that should also be tagged, feel free to forward me a list. I used the News Tags as an example to be clear I meant only noteworthy industry awards.I assume this will also be for novels/light novels? There doesn't seem to be news tags for awards for either at present. Kosmonaut said: The genres are going to be a bit all over the place for right now, since the devs mass migrated the old data. All three should definitely not be in the same entry together. It should one of the three (or none).Another thing, @Kineta. I do grasp the difference between ecchi, erotica, and hentai. What I don't understand is how it's possible to find in the db works tagged with both erotica and hentai, or even all three: ecchi, erotica, and hentai. Since we're also redefining the definitions of the main genres, the moderators and I will be sitting together and combing though the entries for a while. Please see it as a bit of a journey that will take some time, rather than as a sudden fix. By redefining genres I mean, not tagging Comedy to every series that has 2 jokes in it. Not tagging Slice of Life to everything that merely has slow plot progression. Etc. Spring cleaning in autumn... it's a lot of work T_T IrrelevantGuy said: Yes, you will probably be able to do both if you really want to. But as I mentioned above, we're hoping people will move to using the Comments section instead after we make it a column on the list.@Kineta Is there any way I can simultaneously use the "Tag" section to add tags to certain anime/manga and write a mini review? Also, re: shounen/shoujo ai... these are Japanese words which have a very different meaning in Japan than in the West. So we weren't trying to move to using English words, we were actually trying to update our terms to match. There are many threads demanding this change in the Suggestions board, if you're curious :') mazuchi said: Yes, as I mentioned above, that'll probably be on the DB mods' and my weekly agenda for a while... pls send snacks.@Kineta Are there plans to check if Avant Garde correctly applies to former Dementia entries and if it applies to anime that didn't have the Dementia tag? That would be a lot of work, but otherwise the tagging would be too unreliable in my opinion. Shishio-kun said: Thank you for the offer. Unfortunately, backend work is really the issue, not the debugging or colour selection. We were able to add Dark Mode to the app relatively quickly because it was all new. The whole JP team knows how important and heavily requested this feature is, no one is ignoring it. We just can't solely concentrate all site improvement efforts into only that single feature.I don't know about the backend work, but can we help you at all with Dark Mode if we volunteer? Tubbyman said: Sorry for worrying you. No, removing ecchi from the rankings is not our intention. Explicit genres are separated from the others so that users who don't want explicit content can easily filter them out or avoid them. It made sense to include ecchi here along with erotica and hentai.@Kineta so is this overhaul going to have any future changes to what is considered NSFM? The fact that ecchi is now an explicit genre and is being grouped with erotica and hentai, both of which are not included in the ranked DB, makes me worried that ecchi will soon follow suit and be taken out of the ranked DB. Narmy said: Yuri already developed the connotation in the West of having more sexual content. If we got rid of shoujo ai and yaoi, but added BL and kept yuri, it would confuse a lot of people. We're aware GL is used less, but it matches BL and is useful to indicate to people unfamiliar with Japan that usage of the tag has changed.If you want to be more accurate then use yuri instead. What's the point of overhauling the tags if you are going to continue to use wrong ones? Phasmar said: As we've been systematically reviewing 600~700 tags, I've been collecting synonyms for each for this purpose. For pluralization, it hopefully shouldn't be an issue because the Tags section will suggest tags for you: MAL pre-defined or tags you've used before. But as you said, for different words it could be.1. Could the variability of synonyms in tagging affect theme voting? Say, for example, there's a series with robots and different users use either "robots", "androids", cyborgs", etc. or a series featuring gods and people use either "gods", "goddess", "deities", "divinities" and so on and then there's plurals (robot & robots, zombie & zombies...) 2. Are low-member series screwed? No. The developers and I have yet to nail out the final method for the threshold, but we need the community's help especially with low-member manga series of which there are thousands and thousands and thousands. So we'll be trying to avoid needing to request these to be added.3. Branching themes The existing themes are ones we're still considering how to modify. The only theme we removed was Magic. Cars, for example, is not useful in its current form because it's very narrow. We're going to try to avoid branching themes: they should all be siblings of one parent category (I say category not genre because "Setting" can be a parent, for example).4. Can genres be voted on? For the near future, you'd need to make a forum post requesting it. They will not be voted on. Edit requests may be able to be submitted in the future but probably not until after our mod tools all get much needed upgrades.5. Will it be normal now for series to not have a genre? There may be some general fiction manga that would miss a genre, but I don't think there will be many. For example, the one you linked would probably fall under Suspense.Hiruzawa said: No obvious spoiler themes. In fact, we're currently avoiding adding Tragedy for the same reason (it's basically "MC dies" in one word). So majority of themes should not be spoiler content. If it is, we'll probably blacklist it for that entry on the moderator side rather than set up extensive spoiler options like vndb. We've got some other things in mind to handle recommendations/discovering new series with spoiler-ish content.Can you comment on this? https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1956762&show=50#msg64406864 Themes like "time travel" can sometimes spoil the plot. Will there be obvious spoiler themes like "Main character dies"? |
KinetaSep 16, 2021 9:05 PM
Kineta said: If your custom tag (e.g. weroi1h51ohq) does not match MAL's pre-defined themes, it will not count as a vote. Pour one out for our boy, weroi1h51ohq |
Is Blue Box my favorite manga? Not yet...Yes. Yes it is.  |
Kineta said: Magic was removed because it was synonymous with Fantasy and the moderators were struggling with what to do with it even before we began discussing the overhaul. We will get more specific themes (e.g. Mahou Shoujo) to help you find the series you want to watch/read. The thing about removal of the Magic tag and reason why I believe it should be retained is that it covers a very highly specific subset of Fantasy anime; a subgenre, if you will, which involves the protagonist and/or other main character practicing named and highly ritualistic magic and associated techniques as a skill set and lifestyle, attending magical academies, etc. I can definitely understand removing it as a genre as it wouldn't fit if only the major over-arching "umbrella" genres which encompass everything else are to have a place now, but can't it be retained as a theme for this reason? I contend that its removal will undermine or hinder many folks' attempt to find a quite specific type of anime and separate it from the rest. I see "Magic" as every bit as much of a legitimate subset of "Fantasy" as "Demons" and "Vampire" are to Horror or Supernatural. And the problem with the "Mahou Shoujo" tag as a proposal is that it's not applicable to many anime with the Magic tag. For instance, The Ancient Magus Bride/Mahoutsukai no Yome. Just to call on a big name title from recent years as one example. It involves the main character, who is a girl, practicing and developing magical rituals and abilities as a live-in apprentice, yet it is not a Mahou Shoujo/Magical Girl anime itself which are very readily identifiable by specific criteria as their own thing with a very precise meaning. And beyond that, many of the series with the Magic tag as well don't feature a female, but instead a male protagonist, so there the Mahou Shoujo tag would also be wholly inappropriate and all such series would be left orphaned. *I just want to clarify that I'm not against Mahou Shoujo existing as a tag in themes or elsewhere for series where it is indeed applicable, but there are too many Magic series where it is not and I would protest do not deserve to be shafted without a further qualifier. They also have a strong, very particular identity and also deserve awareness of their content. |
WatchTillTandavaSep 16, 2021 9:14 PM
Kineta said: Yuri already developed the connotation in the West of having more sexual content. I don't think that's true except for on MAL because of your incorrect use of the tag for years. Now's your chance to correct that mistake, not make it worse by introducing another term nobody uses. |
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| @Narmy Or we use this for a little while so people are aware the tag has changed and then rename it in the future. As I wrote in my previous post, this doesn't need to be set in concrete stone for eternity/15 years. |
Kineta said: @Narmy Or we use this for a little while so people are aware the tag has changed and then rename it in the future. As I wrote in my previous post, this doesn't need to be set in concrete stone for eternity/15 years. Well MAL has shown itself to be extremely resistant to change, considering how long people have been asking to have shoujo-ai changed before it finally happened, even with its negative connotation in Japan. If it's going to be changed it should be changed to the correct term, or we will just repeat this whole debate again for years. |
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Kineta said: IrrelevantGuy said: Yes, you will probably be able to do both if you really want to. But as I mentioned above, we're hoping people will move to using the Comments section instead after we make it a column on the list.@Kineta Is there any way I can simultaneously use the "Tag" section to add tags to certain anime/manga and write a mini review? Also, re: shounen/shoujo ai... these are Japanese words which have a very different meaning in Japan than in the West. So we weren't trying to move to using English words, we were actually trying to update our terms to match. There are many threads demanding this change in the Suggestions board, if you're curious :') That's great! Most users use the "Tag" section to express their thoughts on shows since "Comment" doesn't display on the list unless you click on "More" (which pretty much nobody does and it looks much less aesthetic). But now that it's going to become a separate column on the list, I definitely wouldn't mind moving to it because that's what it should have been used for in the first place. When is this system going to be implemented though? I know that you guys are working hard and it will probably take a fairly long time, but I'm just a bit curious. :D And regarding the name change of Shoujo and Shounen Ai genres, I was being sarcastic about that. Well, for the most part. |
| I guess this is for the better. |
Kineta said: kuuderes_shadow said: Yes. If you are aware of some notable ones that we haven't been reporting on in the News section, please forward them to Snow or Vindstot. I suppose we've only been covering the Kono LN ga Sugoi rankings. Or if you have some retired awards that should also be tagged, feel free to forward me a list. I used the News Tags as an example to be clear I meant only noteworthy industry awards.I assume this will also be for novels/light novels? There doesn't seem to be news tags for awards for either at present. I'm not actually aware of any light novel awards that are spread over multiple publishers other than KonoRano. Ones that are publisher specific... well, some are held in high regard, but others are literally just ways of finding new writers... and there's not really anywhere you can draw a meaningful line between them. There are, though, a few novels that are on the site or would be eligible to be added that have won awards for literature (eg. Shinsekai yori, Mardock Scramble and Penguin Highway having won the Nihon SF Taisho award). There are a very few light novels that have as well - Seikai no Monshou won the 1997 Seiun award for instance (this has also been won by Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu, Toshokan Sensou and Guin Saga), while Kubikiri Cycle won the Mephisto Prize. |
kuuderes_shadowSep 17, 2021 12:31 AM
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| @Kineta These features weren't added until now but I really to sort my list by genres so I added the genres in my tags. But when the voting ofr tags will start what will happen then. Will I vote for every tag automatically then?? Here's my anime list. You will understand what I mean if you see it. |
   StoryGraph x Spotify x Instagram “Whether we die or not isn't really that big a deal." — Suzuya Juuzou |
| Oh, negative connotations in Japan bad? If so, stop using the word "otaku". |
There is such thing as shit taste. Only idiots think that every "work of art" should have the same value. Oil and nuclear are civilisation saviours. Deal with it. |
| If 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' no longer refer exclusively to erotic homosexual content and are now available terms, why keep 'Girls Love' and 'Boys Love' as terms instead, when they're unnecessary workarounds for 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi'? 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' refer to homosexual content in general, be it romantic or sexual, and having them divided in two arbitrary categories - 'Yuri'/'Yaoi' & 'Girls Love'/'Boys Love' - makes no sense in the first place. Now if you're going back on this division to only one category, it would only make sense to remove the superfluous terms, them being 'Girls Love' and 'Boys Love', and keep 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' to refer to homosexual content as things were originally. EDIT: @Kineta You're saying that terms like 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' have already developed a sexual connotation in the West. Two things: 1) That's basically not true, at least for Yuri. Yuri has always been used to refer to romantic lesbian relationships as well as sexual ones, and 'Girls Love' is like, never used because it simply doesn't mean anything else but Yuri. Yuri is considered to be "the purest form of love". So pure it's almost boring. Imagine using a euphemism for such a word. 2) If anything, 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' would develop a sexual connotation in the West ONLY because Western websites make this stupid division between Yuri/Yaoi and Girls Love/Boys Love. In other words, by keeping the genres 'Girls Love"/'Boys Love' instead of 'Yuri'/'Yaoi', you (MAL) are participating to making the West perceive 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' as being sexually connoted. Basically, you're confusing the cause for the consequence by overlooking the impact of MAL's choice of terms on this whole shift of perception. To conclude, even if 'Yaoi' were sexually connoted in the West enough to bring up a duel between 'Boys Love' and 'Yuri' as terms that make the most sense, to determine if we use 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' or 'Girls Love' and 'Boys Love'; why the hell would 'Boys Love' even prevail? Take this opportunity to restore the true meaning of Yuri and Yaoi, even if only on MAL, instead of following in the tracks of a broken division of words that is slowly connoting them as sexual terms. This is part of the responsibility of a big website such as MAL not to deform the meaning of the words they use. EDIT: @Narmy made a good point; BL and Yuri would most likely be the best solution. (I don't really care about BL/Yaoi so I don't know which term is the most popular, but please, if anything, at the very least, no Girls Love...) |
YamichanSep 17, 2021 11:33 AM
| Suspense instead of very well known genre Thriller?? So weird, I hope to be changed back. |
Yamichan said: If 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' no longer refer exclusively to erotic homosexual content and are now available terms, why keep 'Girls Love' and 'Boys Love' as terms instead, when they're unnecessary workarounds for 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi'? 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' refer to homosexual content in general, be it romantic or sexual, and having them divided in two arbitrary categories - 'Yuri'/'Yaoi' & 'Girls Love'/'Boys Love' - makes no sense in the first place. Now if you're going back on this division and to only one category, it would only make sense to remove the superfluous terms, them being 'Girls Love' and 'Boys Love', and keep 'Yuri' and 'Yaoi' to refer to homosexual content as things were originally. Yaoi is not really used anymore, male gay content is most commonly known as BL (boys love). If they want to be accurate it should be BL and yuri. |
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Narmy said: Yaoi is not really used anymore, male gay content is most commonly known as BL (boys love). If they want to be accurate it should be BL and yuri. Actually, I agree with you. BL and yuri would probably be the best solution. |
| MAL's tag system has been infamous, so I'm happy to see a positive change to it. Hopefully over time it can reach the usefulness of for example anilist's tag system, which I consider nigh peerless at the moment. Good luck, mods and devs! |
| I have committed war crimes in Yugoslavia |
Narmy said: MAL has a complicated development history so I understand how you may feel that way. A lot of dev work needed to go into making it possible to even add new genres to the list due to archaic code. Now that the code has all been refurbished, change will be much easier.Well MAL has shown itself to be extremely resistant to change IrrelevantGuy said: Sooner rather than later. Since MAL's backend is a tangled mess of old and new code, it could take longer than scheduled, so I don't want to commit to an exact date. But the team is already working on it.When is this system going to be implemented though? LEGENDS_OF_ANIME said: Yes, you will vote for every theme that still exists at that point. Others, like "Romance", will not be themes so they will just continue to be normal tags.@Kineta These features weren't added until now but I really to sort my list by genres so I added the genres in my tags. But when the voting ofr tags will start what will happen then. Will I vote for every tag automatically then?? Here's my anime list. You will understand what I mean if you see it. Dauphine said: I've also personally found this behaviour very odd as well. It's not friendly to a new user imo that half the links on the list act like tags and half act like links. I just worry about whether changing it now would be a sudden shock to users who have these columns enabled...Could you please make it so that when you click on a Studio's name in your list, that it takes you to all the anime in your list that are from that studio, similar to when you click on a genre or demographic, instead of taking you to this: https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/37 |
Kosmonaut said: Unowen said: Yes, I get it. I'm just pointing out that the coexistence of these tags, even if only in GL or BL so far, are contradictory to each other. Maybe something to watch out for, maybe something the mods are going to regulate better in the future... Unless they want to stick to hentai meaning strictly the presence of het porn (as it was possible to have yuri + hentai tags before), as it had been so far.At the moment all the "Erotica" titles were previously Yuri or Yaoi, they simply swapped those with boys/girls love + erotica. Hence why the most explicit ones that also had Hentai as a tag now have both of them coexisting. It's also why there are no heterosexual Erotica titles in the database yet. @inim Yeah, I added to my previous post that I could see a case for coupling ecchi with any of the other two, because, as you said, it has its own conventions regarding tantalizing content. As you said, hentai would be more "plot-less" work (though I would argue it is more explicit than erotica, so a "grading" scale could still work) meant exclusively to elicit quick and easy sexual arousal in the audience, while in erotica sexual content is used more as a progression of the plot and character dynamics plus being sexually arousing to the audience. Having both present at the same time is saying it is simultaneously only meant for sexual arousal while... not being only for sexual arousal... Do you get my gripe with it? I don't think the presence of less common kinks makes a work cross the erotica/hentai threshold, because, as I said, the difference is in the very premise of the tags. You could display a vomit fetish, while still not having it be commercial pornography, but part of a coming of age story, for example. Same goes for exploitation. "Hardcore pornography" is still pornography, in a sense, but yeah, maybe a tag for the most extreme works would be in good taste, however maybe in the yet-to-come tag section, rather than the explicit genre one. hold on a minute are you one of these people that think "having sex and violence in any piece of media equals bad and it has to be exploiting someone even though it's either acted or fictional" no no no that will not be the case at all it doesn't exploit anyone it's just a movie that happens to violent content,sexual content or both what's wrong with that sure the movie can be bad but diffidently not because of nonsense reasons like that |
nachomaxo1Sep 17, 2021 1:08 PM
| "Gourmet" genre which includes drinking? Darn, guess now I am a Gourmet fan! *rewatches Grand Blue* |
| @Kineta I know this is not the suggestion forum, but I'd still like to suggest it here rather than there which is totally dead tbh. I would like to have a better entry submission system and how it's approved. As you may already know. Even though MAL is the most popular, it doesn't hold the most number of entries (Especially notable in case of music videos). So if there's a reason to why a entry doesn't get approved I would like to at least get a comment about why it was denied. But otherwise I just can't help but think that nobody even say my submission. 2. Just a casual question. Does the mods read the suggestions of the Suggestions Forum?? (at least the good ones) That's all. I understand that you and other MAL staffs are already busy and working hard with this change already so I am not expecting anything any soon. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand at last I would like to say, can you give an estimation date till the part 2 update in the main post?? that would help. thanks. |
StoryGraph x Spotify x Instagram “Whether we die or not isn't really that big a deal." — Suzuya Juuzou |
| @Kineta Right now demographics (like Seinen in the examples below) on the manga list are under a genre class, while the demographics on the anime list are under a demographics class. Manga List demographic: https://i.imgur.com/rnV3lXV.png Anime List demographic: https://i.imgur.com/QxmKaPe.png Can the devs put the manga list demographics under a demographics class like they do on the anime list (instead of under the second genre class)? That'd make for more consistency for the layouts |
Shishio-kunSep 17, 2021 6:05 PM
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