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| This episode was touching and unbearable to watch at the same time. The start of it felt like something was gonna change on Rika's last run, but damn those intestines coming out endlessly like a magic trick was too much. In the second half about why Rika wanted to leave Hinamizawa and live a carefree life in the city is something I can relate too. But sometimes what we cherish the most are the memories and people right by our side. You never know what you had until you've lost it. So savor the present. |
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because. |
jaw201 said: Why the throat? Because that's just the way it was written in OG Higurashi. Hinamizawa syndrome mainly causes formication in the neck area. Most people who die from the Hinamizawa Syndrome die from clawing their neck out. This is just the way it is. But it would have been better (I think) if they add some "build up" from the formication symptoms... (Like Rena that was scratching both her throat and wrist, as Hulio said.) Right now it's only "Banzai! The throat!" :3 |
| Forum avatar by © dorg |
| Oh boy i think this episode is more disturbing than last episode... Wtf This is just too much for Rika... |
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| I'd suggest that the "instant neckscratching" might happen for a reason other than the usual L5 development. In the last five loops we have seen the person who was seemingly at L5 acted far more violent than any other Hinamizawa Syndrom victim we have seen before. Noramlly we would see someone like Keiichi slowly becoming stressed, paranoid and finally starting to scratch his throat while also becoming violent towards his friends. And even when he is already at the final stage he only kills those who (in his eyes) act aggresively towards him. And after he was done he still felt sad about it. Now we see a Keiichi who seemingly out of nowhere believes that Rika is the reason for Maggots inside his blood and he slaughters absolutely everyone in a restaurant for no reason at all. Why would he do this if it's just Rika he was after? And why doesn't he feel any remorse at all? Same with Akasaka. Out of nowhere he is L5, thinks Rika is the reason for his suffering and murders her while screaming like a maniac. With Akane we hardly get to see anything, but she also seems to murder everyone no matter if it's a Sonozaki or not. Hideyoshi doesn't show the typical development either, he just suddenly decides that he has to drown Rika to save the village. Satoko makes it even more clear since she says herself that the only reason she kills Rika is because some "higher being" told her to. And that the same being told her to kill all of her friends as well. So imo it's very likely, that these 5 cases aren't the typical HS syndom with the neck scratching at the last stage. It's the work of someone who pushes people into madness in order to make them kill Rika. That might be the reason why these gory scenes seem so over the top. Why the culprits act like brainless maniacs instead of real people who slowly turned paranoid. And that might explain why they go straight for the bloody throat scratching instead of slowly reacting to their throats becoming more and more icky. At least that's my view at this. Of course everyone is welcome to just say "Omg such bad writing, these gory scenes are so brainless and there is no mystery at all." |
We'll be together for all eternity.  |
Eragur said: .... This would be great if it was obvious that a higher being was directly messing with the pieces to such an extent. Takano and Tomitake leaving asap is fine. Rearranging pieces so that both Rena and Keichi go mad is fine. But a new and worse, possibly magical, HS without clear build up before the "L5" outbursts, is just too much. Also doesnt help that Rena, Keichi and SMion all were acting in typical HS fashion. Ooishi was the first irregular victim. I remember in the early episodes that opinions were divided on the matter of how deep Umineko's connection will be. Personally I wouldnt have an issue if we had more clear clues in the first 3 arcs. But now a magical solution from Umineko's meta world seems like a cop out. Why is this a Higurashi series called season 1.5? Why isnt it called Umineko 0 if it is just witches messing with the rules? Th next 8 episodes may end up great and make this a decent or even good Umineko prequel. But this isnt what should have been treated. Even if it is Bern's creation, it should stay within the rules of Higurashi's gameboard/series. A second looper that is somehow able to develop a worse version of HS is also bad for me, and I hope Takano doesnt end up being that. |
ssjokg said: Eragur said: .... This would be great if it was obvious that a higher being was directly messing with the pieces to such an extent. Takano and Tomitake leaving asap is fine. Rearranging pieces so that both Rena and Keichi go mad is fine. But a new and worse, possibly magical, HS without clear build up before the "L5" outbursts, is just too much. Also doesnt help that Rena, Keichi and SMion all were acting in typical HS fashion. Ooishi was the first irregular victim. I remember in the early episodes that opinions were divided on the matter of how deep Umineko's connection will be. Personally I wouldnt have an issue if we had more clear clues in the first 3 arcs. But now a magical solution from Umineko's meta world seems like a cop out. Why is this a Higurashi series called season 1.5? Why isnt it called Umineko 0 if it is just witches messing with the rules? Th next 8 episodes may end up great and make this a decent or even good Umineko prequel. But this isnt what should have been treated. Even if it is Bern's creation, it should stay within the rules of Higurashi's gameboard/series. A second looper that is somehow able to develop a worse version of HS is also bad for me, and I hope Takano doesnt end up being that. Well it shouldn't be obvious because then you wouldn't have to think about possibilities at all. Most posts about the recent episodes just blamed bad writing for anything that seemed weird to them without thinking for a possible reason behind it. So I feel that trying not to be like that is the best way to give this story a chance and enjoy it. I wouldn't necessarily say that it has to be a magical solution. A higher being being involved could simply mean that a former piece turned into a semi-player. They'd still have to play by the rules, but with a knowledge from outside the board (like Rika). The first two loops weren't that odd to Rika either. You could say the loops became weirder and weirder each time. The reason for that could be that Rika's opponent decided to start it slow. Of course this is just a theory. There have been some hints towards Umineko so I just feel that at this point a strong involvement by Umineko characters is the most likely explanation for whats happening. I can see the problems that come with such a strong connection. I agree that it would be a disappointing mystery if the solutiion was too supernatural or even based on knowledge about another series a lot of people haven't seen yet. Personally I would be fine with such a decision since I value the connection to Umineko more than the mystery of Gou itself. But I'd be fine if it was just a good mystery with an unexpected solution inside the Higurashi universe as well. |
We'll be together for all eternity. |
thereIwasnt said: dasprn said: but damn those intestines coming out endlessly like a magic trick was too much. Fun fact, the average length of the intestines in an adult human is 15ft (4.5m). Even in a kid like Rika, Satoko had plenty of length to work with. And that's when the intestines are all in one piece and then laid out flat. She was pulling out pieces of the guts that somehow got lodged inside her from the hacking, which was just silly. Also someone someplace pointed out that it looks like they colored in the lower ribs pink because what the fuck even are those, anyway?  |
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Lil-Bird said: thereIwasnt said: Fun fact, the average length of the intestines in an adult human is 15ft (4.5m). Even in a kid like Rika, Satoko had plenty of length to work with. And that's when the intestines are all in one piece and then laid out flat. She was pulling out pieces of the guts that somehow got lodged inside her from the hacking, which was just silly. Also someone someplace pointed out that it looks like they colored in the lower ribs pink because what the fuck even are those, anyway? surgeon simulator be like. |
Eragur said: ssjokg said: This would be great if it was obvious that a higher being was directly messing with the pieces to such an extent. Takano and Tomitake leaving asap is fine. Rearranging pieces so that both Rena and Keichi go mad is fine. But a new and worse, possibly magical, HS without clear build up before the "L5" outbursts, is just too much. Also doesnt help that Rena, Keichi and SMion all were acting in typical HS fashion. Ooishi was the first irregular victim. I remember in the early episodes that opinions were divided on the matter of how deep Umineko's connection will be. Personally I wouldnt have an issue if we had more clear clues in the first 3 arcs. But now a magical solution from Umineko's meta world seems like a cop out. Why is this a Higurashi series called season 1.5? Why isnt it called Umineko 0 if it is just witches messing with the rules? Th next 8 episodes may end up great and make this a decent or even good Umineko prequel. But this isnt what should have been treated. Even if it is Bern's creation, it should stay within the rules of Higurashi's gameboard/series. A second looper that is somehow able to develop a worse version of HS is also bad for me, and I hope Takano doesnt end up being that. Well it shouldn't be obvious because then you wouldn't have to think about possibilities at all. Most posts about the recent episodes just blamed bad writing for anything that seemed weird to them without thinking for a possible reason behind it. So I feel that trying not to be like that is the best way to give this story a chance and enjoy it. I wouldn't necessarily say that it has to be a magical solution. A higher being being involved could simply mean that a former piece turned into a semi-player. They'd still have to play by the rules, but with a knowledge from outside the board (like Rika). The first two loops weren't that odd to Rika either. You could say the loops became weirder and weirder each time. The reason for that could be that Rika's opponent decided to start it slow. Of course this is just a theory. There have been some hints towards Umineko so I just feel that at this point a strong involvement by Umineko characters is the most likely explanation for whats happening. I can see the problems that come with such a strong connection. I agree that it would be a disappointing mystery if the solutiion was too supernatural or even based on knowledge about another series a lot of people haven't seen yet. Personally I would be fine with such a decision since I value the connection to Umineko more than the mystery of Gou itself. But I'd be fine if it was just a good mystery with an unexpected solution inside the Higurashi universe as well. It may turn out good as another part of a larger meta world but I am afraid that as a standalone, because that's what they claimed it to be(honestly seems lile a marketing ploy now), it just isnt good. Cant imagine newcomers watching this and seeing something that is different from Another or, since it was mentioned here, Mirai Nikki. And I don't agree or like the idea that a WTC, the og premise at that, is just on the level of mindless gore with a bit of mystery that will be overshadowed by guts and splatter. |
PlayMaker22 said: No, it was the curse, just rechecked the scene.Rena doesn't cut herself because of the syndrome, but because of the hatred she had for her mother Of course it's hard to say how much of the act is because of the curse, and how much because of her hatred, but after she stopped taking meds she was squeezing out the maggots from her blood. And then she met Oyashiro-Sama. jaw201 said: Yep, sure missed that one word.Yes, Rena scratching her throat and Wrists. When I said mainly on the neck. Way to misread my post. Tomitake always clawed his neck out because he was injected with the Hinamizawa syndrome. Don't be an idiot. Keichii was scratching his throat in Onikakushi, scratching at the throat totally isn't one of the symptoms. The fact that the first question the nurse asked Keichii to determine whether or not he had the syndrome was to ask if his neck was itchy, but sure it totally isn't a symptom. And yea, it totally isn't true that Rika clawed at her throat in the VN when she was injected with C-120 which causes L5 symptoms. Not sure where you're going with this.If you mean that I'm unaware of the act of clawing their throats out, then all I can say is Don't be an idiot. Maybe you should learn to read the VN, before you post again. I'm just gonna do the classic No U on this one. |
         Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
i dunno first half of this new Higurashi was... okaaay i mean the arc with Satoko's uncle and the child protective service was looong and boring, the rest was okay. but with... episode 14 and specially 15 Sweet Zombie Jesus!!! poor Rika, i mean i always felt sorry for her, but now.....my poor poor Rika |
| Just came here to say how much I loved Rikas animation in this episode towards the middle and end. She looked so cute. 😭 |
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| That was really hard to watch. I was close to shutting it off and dropping. Only Japan would give the world such horror. This show is going over the edge now. |
Lil-Bird said: Ryukishi pretty much is admitting he wrote himself into a corner with Miotsukushi-hen and needs excuses to backpedal. Holy shit, he really is lost without BT there to clean up after him. That was actually my biggest issue with Higurashi's plot. I wondered why Hanyuu didn't just choose one person to hang around during each loop because she'd inevitably find the culprit that way. An explanation is still an explanation, i'm fine with what Ryukishi said, i think it fits Hanyuu. I can imagine her not even attempting to find the culprit so she can keep looping with Rika. But i thought Rika herself would have something to say about this and be a bit angry at Hanyuu even. Like "hey Hanyuu why aren't you helping me here, you of all people could find out who kills me." I can definitely think of lots of explanations, but it would've been nice if this was brought up within the story at some point, unless i missed something. |
random_weirdo said: To be fair, this is something that wouldn't bug me if I had been happy with the rest of the execution of Gou, which is why me and many other fans never mentioned it in the discussions for the previous episodes. But when people are dissatisfied with something, we tend to nitpick even the tiniest stuff that we would give a pass to in other things we like more. I hope that this criticism and honest assesment of myself seems more reasonable to you that "it's just brainless gore". Yeah I feel you. Personally I don't mind this kind of unrealism that much, since it's something that happens constantly in all kind of stories. Same with the amount of blood that get's sprayed by a single hit/stab. Of course I'd prefer a more realistic approach since that would be more immersive and simply more effective in conveing emoitons because a real looking murder is far more disturbing than an over the top bloody one. (Even though some people bash on Another here, I feel like it had some pretty good death scenes.) And no, your comments and arguments can hardly be put together with the ones I was talking about. Some criticizm is absolutely justified, while some other is just lazy hating. It makes me especially sad if someone who read the VNs (especially Umineko) would rather complain about a nonsensical story without clues than try to figure it out. Sometimes giving a series the benefit of the doubt makes you enjoy it more than looking for things to hate. random_weirdo said: That's bad for the people who haven't read Umineko, though. I know more or less about the premise and about the witches because of all the things being said in the internet, but not enough that I could understand the references like I understand the ones to OG Higurashi. It would have been okay if the Umineko elements had been introduced earlier, but by this point it may feel disappointing (still giving them the benefit of doubt, though - I hope that if it's Umineko stuff, they explain it so well that I'm completely satisfied). And if that's what I, a veteran of Higurashi, am feeling, imagine how it would be for newcomers who really know nothing. Yeah that could at least be bad for people who haven't read it yet. Same way Gou could be bad for people who havent seen/read Higurashi yet. Imo it's kinda unfair towards newcomers to fool them like that. Though I feel like if someone who doesn't know anything about Higurashi or Umineko still continues to watch Gou without watching the other seasons first, then it's propably the kind of person who doesn't care if the mystery get's solved by something that could have never been anticipated with his knowledge. I appreciate that you are staying positive about a possible Umineko explanation even though you haven't read it yet. Some other people would propably be a little bit mad about feeling left out or something. And since you are such a fan of Higurashi I can only advise you to start getting into Umineko asap. It's a little sad that you propably already got spoiled a lot but it surely would still be a great experience for you. You did read the Higurashi VNs, right? |
EragurJan 26, 2021 11:06 AM
We'll be together for all eternity. |
random_weirdo said: I think the difference is, that while the OG was "illogical" it was logically illogical, how to say it, made sense for not making sense.But, as you say, I'm trying to give them the benefit of doubt until the end comes around, because the OG had many things that seemed illogical and were explained neatly towards the end. Like you said, I also believe there is a more vicious version of HS going around, which has caused all the differences you have mentioned. Here however the illogicality of actions feels just illogical, completely random. I can buy that this new HS makes you more vicious and irrational and full of malicious intent. But those are things that affect the psyche. No matter how much you're mentally affected by something, that won't change your body. That includes nails. Nails and skin are going to still be made of the same cells and tissues, thus, no matter how hard you scratch, it's impossible to draw blood at the first go. What comes to the HS, I think there's some sort of brainwashing going on. It doesn't seem to have the subtlety of the original, and frankly, that's what was so good about it.The scratching tho, I feel like I'd want to agree, but sort of "testing" on myself, it kinda feels like it could be possible if I really put my strength on it... Can't prove it tho, don't wanna go that far... even for science. Agreed. In my opinion, the culprit intends to slowly break Rika down by first showing her familiar situations that she can't solve, then removing her closest ally and mother figure, then making everything new and unpredictable, turning her allies against her as they kill her violently one by one. I don't know what is the plan of the culprit, but Rika breaking down just seems unnatural.Showing familiar situations she can't solve? I'm pretty sure she wasn't able to solve much during the 100 years either, how ever familiar they were. Removing Hanyuu? Well I guess that could affect her somehow. Don't know if she was present within every fragment and loop, but don't think losing her should take the affection this quickly. Everything new and unpredictable? I guess that works to certain degree. Tho afaik, none of the fragments are exactly the same so new and unpredictable was always a factor, to certain degree & until X point. Turning her allies against her as they kill her? This shouldn't be anything new either - tho we did apparently get some new ones here. Gotta remember that it's not like the OG Higurashi was all there was to it, but rather, had the 7 last fragments (who knows how many there was before that). To me, it felt natural that Rika would break down and give into Satoko's chastisement for leaving the village because, after all the shit she's been through, if her best friends brutally kills her while telling her that is the answer to all her suffering, it's going to seem legit. Like I already mentioned above, it didn't feel natural to me. No matter amount the shit she's been through (she always had been through) I don't think Satoko holds such a strong grasp on her. It's not like Rika has always needed her acceptance (like seen on Saikoroshi). And the biggest factor on this is the mental age. Satoko may still be her best friend, but we don't actually know what that actually means to Rika (the least she don't want a future without them). But as the years go by, Rika will get older and older, whereas the others will forever stay kids, and the arrogance of her age really did shine through her demeanor from time to time in the og.But yeah, let's see how the next episode will continue, atleast going to Takano didn't show any signs of having been mentally broken, so no idea what the episode was all about in the end. |
Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
Hulio said: I think the difference is, that while the OG was "illogical" it was logically illogical, how to say it, made sense for not making sense. Here however the illogicality of actions feels just illogical, completely random. Part of giving this series a chance is to wait until we get the answers to our questions before we judge its logic. We have all seen the answer arcs of OG Higurashi so we know that the seemingly illogical events of the question arcs have some hidden logic behind it. But that's just hindsight knowledge we can't have with Gou yet. If I were to judge OG Higurashi's logic after watching episode 15 of the Deen anime I propably wouldn't have praised it either. The open minded approach would be to keep in mind that there could be some logic and rationality behind the events we don't understand yet. Hulio said: What comes to the HS, I think there's some sort of brainwashing going on. It doesn't seem to have the subtlety of the original, and frankly, that's what was so good about it. The scratching tho, I feel like I'd want to agree, but sort of "testing" on myself, it kinda feels like it could be possible if I really put my strength on it... Can't prove it tho, don't wanna go that far... even for science. Yeah, brainwashing could be the reason for their behavior. Maybe they were injected something. Maybe they were just persuaded. Maybe a higher being spoke to them. Could be a magical or worldy explanation. I feel like with putting enough strength into the scratching you could easily draw blood in seconds. You don't need to go that deep to bleed and without any pain reflexively stopping you from going deeper your nails would propably endure long enough to make quite a mess. Obviously the way it was shown is still unrealistic. Hulio said: I don't know what is the plan of the culprit, but Rika breaking down just seems unnatural. Showing familiar situations she can't solve? I'm pretty sure she wasn't able to solve much during the 100 years either, how ever familiar they were. Removing Hanyuu? Well I guess that could affect her somehow. Don't know if she was present within every fragment and loop, but don't think losing her should take the affection this quickly. Everything new and unpredictable? I guess that works to certain degree. Tho afaik, none of the fragments are exactly the same so new and unpredictable was always a factor, to certain degree & until X point. Turning her allies against her as they kill her? This shouldn't be anything new either - tho we did apparently get some new ones here. Gotta remember that it's not like the OG Higurashi was all there was to it, but rather, had the 7 last fragments (who knows how many there was before that). The thing is that Rika was stuck in these loops for at least a hundred years. While she wasn't able to figure out the countless loops she experienced in that time she still did start understanding the rules of the world she lives in. She knew that if X happens Y will become paranoid. And she knew that there are some scenarios that happen more often than others. At some point she must have become somewhat used to certain developments. She became less emotionally attached. Now the situation is completely different. All the reasons you are talking about add up. For starters she never would have expected to become stuck in these loops again after reaching her happy end against Takano. Just imagine being thrown back into absolute desparation after believing you finally made it out after a hundred years. And she knows perfectly well that even if she reaches a happy end again she could still become stuck in the loops at anytime. This would crush the hopes of any person. Then she can't just do the same things she did last time to reach the happy end because it doesn't work anymore. Protest with a ton of people to free Satoko from her uncle? Doesn't work. Then it goes even farther. When in the past she could at least to some degree enjoy her time in Hinamizawa with her friends before Watanagashi the current loops don't give her any break at all. She becomes totally joyful when Akasaka appears and then gets brutally murdered by him. There is no safe area anymore. Add to that that her only companion during these loops isnt there for her anymore and it should be quite understandable that someone who suffered for so long just doesn't have any strength left to fight. So when Satoko seemingly names the reason for her torture for the first time she tries to make the best out of it. She already was completely hopeless at this point and would have killed herself but this revelation by Satoko gave her an alternative of staying alive and still stopping the torture. And after all that you should keep in mind that even though Rika obviously acted like that towards Satoko to stop her own suffering we don't know if what she said was sincere. She just wanted some peace and could have easily lied about loving Hinamizawa. As you said yourself, when she was meeting Takano she didn't seem like she has given up at all. That's why I feel so bummed out by all the comments complaining about how the message of this episode was that you shouldn't leave hometown. How could someone come to such a conclusion? That's like really, really bad reasoning. Hulio said: Like I already mentioned above, it didn't feel natural to me. No matter amount the shit she's been through (she always had been through) I don't think Satoko holds such a strong grasp on her. It's not like Rika has always needed her acceptance (like seen on Saikoroshi). And the biggest factor on this is the mental age. Satoko may still be her best friend, but we don't actually know what that actually means to Rika (the least she don't want a future without them). But as the years go by, Rika will get older and older, whereas the others will forever stay kids, and the arrogance of her age really did shine through her demeanor from time to time in the og. It's not necessarily just because it's her best friend. Of course this makes her betrayal far more hurtful but the real impact comes from what she said. Satoko doesn't speak to Rika like a brainless maniac (like Akasaka did for example). She spoke to her completely calm, even saddened by what she had to do. This way what Satoko said didn't seem like meaningless gibberish to Rika but like there was actually a good reason for her to be murdered by her best friend. In a way it felt like Satoko was speaking for someone else. She talked about being told to kill Rika and her friends. She talked about having no other choice. Maybe Rika realised that as well. That through Satoko someone was telling her the reason for her torture. Personally I believe that the person who told Satoko to kill Rika is the same person who made everyone else go after her. And this person has Rika's fate in their hands. So Rika didn't necessarily submit to Satoko, but to the person who makes her suffer through all of this. And who knows. If there is a connection to Umineko and there is really a witch behind this, then Rika has all the reason to submit. If this turns out to be a Bernkastel Origins story then Umineko readers know how this development affects Rika's psyche. |
EragurJan 27, 2021 10:44 AM
We'll be together for all eternity. |
Eragur said: I mean, sure there could be an explanation at the end, in a way how it happened with the OG.Part of giving this series a chance is to wait until we get the answers to our questions before we judge its logic. But the point I was talking about was a "feeling". And as such, in OG it felt like there was a sense to the illogicality, but here it lacks of that sense. Then what comes to how Rika feels. I don't want to delve too deep on speculating how a character X feels about things, especially Rika. I'm not a looper, so I don't know how that feels/affects my minds. I haven't been killed, and I'm still not 100 years old. Many variables which are impossible for us to understand. The only thing I can say is, that as the amount of "suffering" and age I've accumulates through the years, it gets easier to numb one's feelings, and the ability to not give a shit rises. |
Intelligent gets through situations which wise avoids. |
| Just when you thought they couldn't top the depravity of episode 15, they do so. Satoko playing around with Rika's guts has to be one of the most horrible things I've ever seen in fiction. Even up there with the worst from Hannibal Lechter stuff. In the end Rika is forced to go for the George Orwell solution in 1984 - learn to love your oppressor to escape further torment. |
| Just a wild thought that might be answered tomorrow anyways. Somehow, Gou is leaning much more to a "curse of oyashiro-sama" than hinamizawa syndrome. Pretty much like in og story we get it introduced as a curse and ends up being man's doing, in Gou we arrive aware of the HS, but it's so random that it looks like a curse. The flaw on this deduction is that it just looks too random. Some characters talk about curse, others about parasites. The only thing certain is that most characters end up going for Rika. I don't believe this is what is actually happening either, it's just a point up. Hanyuu telling Rika to go for the sword pretty much implies that there's another looper. Even if that's not the former Hanyuu, but an illusion to trick Rika, I don't think the message was simply "if you're tired you can always end your misery now". Also, the sword being able to kill a looper looks pretty much like plot convenience to me, but that hint in Matsuribayashi is kinda vague. I've always questioned it, but thought that the arc about Hanyuu's past might have the answer about this. The opening hints that Rika will be slain at least once desperately running to the saiguden, independently of her intentions. If there was such a strong will to brainwash her, they wouldn't give her a chance to fight back that easily. Anyways, in the next chapter we'll probably learn what happened to Takano. Maybe something big changed, or maybe in the end it's simply about Nomura never contacting Takano, and she never regained her motivation after Koizumi-sensei's death. Ngl that I'm curious to know what happened to Takano, the institute and Tokyo, but the hint that was pretty clear was that Takano never regained her motivation, or perhaps never had a motivation this time, and GHD never happened in Gou. |
rafaelfserafimJan 27, 2021 4:57 PM
fancyjasper said: Lil-Bird said: Ryukishi pretty much is admitting he wrote himself into a corner with Miotsukushi-hen and needs excuses to backpedal. Holy shit, he really is lost without BT there to clean up after him. That was actually my biggest issue with Higurashi's plot. I wondered why Hanyuu didn't just choose one person to hang around during each loop because she'd inevitably find the culprit that way. An explanation is still an explanation, i'm fine with what Ryukishi said, i think it fits Hanyuu. I can imagine her not even attempting to find the culprit so she can keep looping with Rika. But i thought Rika herself would have something to say about this and be a bit angry at Hanyuu even. Like "hey Hanyuu why aren't you helping me here, you of all people could find out who kills me." I can definitely think of lots of explanations, but it would've been nice if this was brought up within the story at some point, unless i missed something. Hey, I saw your video analysis of ep 16 the other day on Youtube and thought it was spot on! Cool to find you here. I agree, I don't think Ryukishi had thought things through when he created the concept of Hanyuu. He wanted to make her independent of Rika so she could (unwittingly?) increase the paranoia in victims of HS. But he didn't realize the implication was that Hanyuu was able to follow Takano and Tomitake to find out just why they die in every timeline. And Rika should have definitely thought of it. rafaelfserafim said: Just a wild thought that might be answered tomorrow anyways. Somehow, Gou is leaning much more to a "curse of oyashiro-sama" than hinamizawa syndrome. Pretty much like in og story we get it introduced as a curse and ends up being man's doing, in Gou we arrive aware of the HS, but it's so random that it looks like a curse. The flaw on this deduction is that it just looks too random. Some characters talk about curse, others about parasites. The only thing certain is that most characters end up going for Rika. I don't believe this is what is actually happening either, it's just a point up. Hanyuu telling Rika to go for the sword pretty much implies that there's another looper. Even if that's not the former Hanyuu, but an illusion to trick Rika, I don't think the message was simply "if you're tired you can always end your misery now". Also, the sword being able to kill a looper looks pretty much like plot convenience to me, but that hint in Matsuribayashi is kinda vague. I've always questioned it, but thought that the arc about Hanyuu's past might have the answer about this. The opening hints that Rika will be slain at least once desperately running to the saiguden, independently of her intentions. If there was such a strong will to brainwash her, they wouldn't give her a chance to fight back that easily. Anyways, in the next chapter we'll probably learn what happened to Takano. Maybe something big changed, or maybe in the end it's simply about Nomura never contacting Takano, and she never regained her motivation after Koizumi-sensei's death. Ngl that I'm curious to know what happened to Takano, the institute and Tokyo, but the hint that was pretty clear was that Takano never regained her motivation, or perhaps never had a motivation this time, and GHD never happened in Gou. I've also been thinking that Gou seems to require more supernatural explanation than OG. In OG, the only things that had a supernatural explanation and where a wordly explanation wasn't enough were the timeline resets and Rika knowing stuff she's not supposed to know. But here, we need to know why Rika started looping again, why are there some differences in these worlds (e.g. Oyashiro-sama's hand), why is this HS seemingly targeting Rika, why the killers in the Neko worlds seem to have information of Rika's previous looping (like knowing about the parasites or the gas that will kill the village), why the syndrome was developing faster with almost every timeline and then suddenly stopped when Rika admitted to loving Hinamizawa... I can't imagine a natural explanation, as opposed to supernatural, for most of these. Interesting catch about Rika being killed while running to the saiguden. |
Hulio said: I mean, sure there could be an explanation at the end, in a way how it happened with the OG. But the point I was talking about was a "feeling". And as such, in OG it felt like there was a sense to the illogicality, but here it lacks of that sense. Then what comes to how Rika feels. I don't want to delve too deep on speculating how a character X feels about things, especially Rika. I'm not a looper, so I don't know how that feels/affects my minds. I haven't been killed, and I'm still not 100 years old. Many variables which are impossible for us to understand. The only thing I can say is, that as the amount of "suffering" and age I've accumulates through the years, it gets easier to numb one's feelings, and the ability to not give a shit rises. To be honest I don't remember that well if I felt the logic behind all the confusing events in OG Higurashi. The Deen anime was my first R07 experience and I was too entertained by the development to give much thought about the likelyness of a logical explanation at the end. In hindsight I'd surely agree with you. After reading the VNs, and reading Umineko and the first Phase of Ciconia as well my thoughts about the WTC franchise changed completely. And I feel like this makes it difficult to compare my Gou experience with the OG Higurashi one. Because starting with Episode 1 I am thinking about how this series is going to end and how the events could be logically explained. In a way I have a much higher expectation of clues and solutions than I did with the Deen anime. When it come to what Rika feels I can't really relate to your position. When talking about fictional characters there would hardly be anything I could relate with. I never killed someone, never saw someone die, never commited a serious crime, never dated someone with a fatal illness, was never tortured at cetera. Yet I can still imagine how these things must feel. Because I am a human being with human emotions. I can imagine how it feels like to watch people you love get killed over and over again. I can imagine how it's like to get stabbed to death, just to revive and get stabbed again. Even if it's something unnatural, it's not that hard to use your own imagination to emphasize with someone. And it's not that hard to imagine that someone who got perpetually murdered for a hundred years and escaped might be devestated to find herself get perpetually murdered again. And while it might be true, that Rika started to give less of a shit after continuing for a 100 years, she surely didn't give no shit about finally being freed from this tragic fate. Because deep inside she still hoped to get saved someday. Getting thrown back into the loops must have shattered this hope. |
We'll be together for all eternity. |
random_weirdo said: fancyjasper said: That was actually my biggest issue with Higurashi's plot. I wondered why Hanyuu didn't just choose one person to hang around during each loop because she'd inevitably find the culprit that way. An explanation is still an explanation, i'm fine with what Ryukishi said, i think it fits Hanyuu. I can imagine her not even attempting to find the culprit so she can keep looping with Rika. But i thought Rika herself would have something to say about this and be a bit angry at Hanyuu even. Like "hey Hanyuu why aren't you helping me here, you of all people could find out who kills me." I can definitely think of lots of explanations, but it would've been nice if this was brought up within the story at some point, unless i missed something. Hey, I saw your video analysis of ep 16 the other day on Youtube and thought it was spot on! Cool to find you here. I agree, I don't think Ryukishi had thought things through when he created the concept of Hanyuu. He wanted to make her independent of Rika so she could (unwittingly?) increase the paranoia in victims of HS. But he didn't realize the implication was that Hanyuu was able to follow Takano and Tomitake to find out just why they die in every timeline. And Rika should have definitely thought of it. Hey thanks! I'm still not the best at putting my thoughts across very well, but i appreciate you watching. :) I can headcanon a scene between Hanyuu and Rika discussing this issue at least, but i'd love an official explanation. The one we got from Ryukishi just leaves us with more questions than answers i feel. |
| You know, thinking back at this episode... I look at the calendar there and think, shouldn't thoughtcrime more be a thing for the next year...? |
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| Well you get tortured and killed brutally in the same town for over 100 years yeah I would want to leave too!!! What a fucked up god we have here. This one won't end well either. |
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| People writing thesis papers in here. What the hell? |
| WOW, simply the best episode of Higurashi so far. I was shocked by every scene, direction, sound of cicadas and other technical effects that Passione made especially for all of this. Rika went through a lot of problems again and now not only is she confused, but we are wondering where this story is going. So far, Nekogoroshi has been a gift to fans on the bloodthirsty side of the franchise. |
| Apparently people like this one, but it seems to me like gore shock jock shit. There was gore in the original, but when people died, it was mainly a psychological thriller. We didn't know what's happening or who to trust. It felt claustrophobic. Here, Rika somehow stays alive, conscious, and remains thoughtful while having her entrails ripped out and dissected, like the worst version of Long Lasting Last Words trope (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LongLastingLastWords). It starts out disturbing and revolting, but turns out comical. And then Rika wakes up and immediately starts frolicking lake side and playing dodge ball. It's just such a ridiculous dichotomy that breaks all sense of realism. Now I know you could say that due to the delusions, the entrails scene may not be exactly as shown, which would be a convenient excuse, but the whole point of that scene was for Rika to realize something through self-discovery, so it wasn't just another crazy moment. It had to be tethered to reality in some way, and we had to assume we're seeing it through Rika's perspective since she was the narrating protagonist in that scene (usually, it's Keichi). The original series never showed Rika fully engaged with everyone, as far as I can remember, which is a good thing because it makes perfect sense why she would not. The original series shows Rika living through hundreds or thousands of iterations of each variation, not just one where Rena gets paranoid, and one where Mion gets jealous, and one where Keichi sneaks off with Shion... Everything Rika claims to have tried in this episode, she presumably had tried dozens of times previously, so it should have been nothing new. In the conclusion of the original series, Rika should have been fully aware of what caused the virus, and all the events that went down, and who the responsible actors are, yet prior to the last episode, she acted flustered whenever something happened. It's almost as if the show can't decide whether they want to cater to new or old fans, and ends up compromising half way in a plot breaking way. I'll have to rewatch the original to see if everything I remembered still holds, but so far this has been disappointing. The first 10 episodes or so might as well be filler, or at least doesn't push the plot forward, nor adequately sets the mood. Now it's like they're trying to make up for lost time. P.S. It's also kind of cheesy how she has to countdown with her fingers and snap every time she dies, as if that means something. Like thank you, Passione, we, the audience, can actually count down to five. But thank you for spelling out such a monumental task. We couldn't have known it without you! |
katsucatsFeb 2, 2021 9:17 PM
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| WTF did i just watch?! #SaveRika |
| I need that painkiller. How did she survive THAT long with her organs just.... out there? It was pretty disgusting though. I was pretty disturbed lol. |
| That was great. I didn't know whether to cry or throw up there. It hits different if you watched S1 and S2. Was I seeing things or did we see a scene from S2 where Takano cried on Tomitake's shoulder? |
| Why was rika alive? She shouldn't be conscious let alone alive. |
 _______I like rocks__  |
| And here i thought that the previous episode wasn't sad enough... damn, this is just insane. I do hope that i am wrong on one thing tho, i really hope that Rika wasn't cursed by the reason that she wanted to leave the village, because if that's the case...oh boy! That would be insanely ridiculous, but let's see what will happen in the next episodes. |
"There is no such thing as an Anime elitist. You watch Anime, therefore, you are trash by society's standards." |
| I'm not convinced that she still wants to live there, she is simply doing what she can to stop suffering even if it means brainwashing herself. But her heart will always be scared and waver so I don't think she will ever find peace. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| What the fuck was this episode lmao. I have never felt this much grossed out by an anime episode in ages xD |
| "Life is too bitter, so coffee, at least should be sweet..." - Hikigaya Hachiman (Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatte Iru) |
| I'm incredibly desensitized to most things and, after episode 15 and THAT scene in the original Higurashi, I thought there was nothing this series could do on the gore front to gross me out and genuinely disturb me. However, seeing Rika's intestines out in the open and seeing Satoko gradually pull them out was genuinely disturbing and so utterly unexpected, not least because of the shock of Satoko doing this to her best friend. Even the injection of the painkiller - done solely to prolong the torture by denying Rika the ability to pass out from the unimaginable pain - made me wince in a way that little has accomplished since THAT scene from the original series. Wow. And then Rika has to essentially stockholm syndrome herself to not want to leave Hinamizawa, in the desperate hope that it will finally bring an end to the constant cycle of death and suffering. Now we have the question of just how much Satoko knows to contend with, and that's a far more interesting mystery than the original mystery around the Hinamizawa Syndrome ever proved to be. |
| THAT WAS HORRIFIC |
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| Lol! Nobody can still be alive after their torso being chopped off and their intestine been pulled off. I was laughing about the incredulity of it instead of being woeful about Rika's situation :( |
 She got him back. If you understand the characters well enough, you'd know she did! |
| I never thought I would say it but Higurashi was too gory this episode, or better, it dragged for too long. This was gratuitous gore, they needed to pace that better, and when you consider all these past episodes, my gosh, give it a break! It loses its effect and just becomes disgusting, especially when you are watching this while eating (which is how I watch most anime nowadays). The later half suggests Takano is finally gonna get her time to shine.... |
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| Finally some good fucking gore in modern anime. The effect was just not the desired one. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Uhh, I was watching the intestines scene while eating, big mistake. It might've been a bit too long, but it certainly did the job of grossing me out, first time a newer anime has done that for me so props. I'm starting to find this interesting, particularly stuff surrounding Satoko and her involvement. There must be more to it because she seems to have information. Satoko in the new 'good' kakera seems sus too. Tbh now I regret reading these threads so religiously, I should have just gone in raw, cause now I'm finding myself going in each time with negative expectations even though this is new content now. I think I will try to stop now. |
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