Spice and Wolf (light novel)
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| FFFFFFFFFFFFF I hate it when people just don't talk their problems out! Though I know -- understand -- that it is a very Japanese thing to do, to avoid full-on fighting, so when actual fight starts most would handle it like Lawrence -- by freezing, hoping the problem goes away after the outburst. Doesn't mean I can't still hate it. Fantastic episode otherwise. The music especially: that heart wrenching moment? Extremely powerful due to music choice. |
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| ^I agree with the "talking it out" sentiment, even though it was pretty understandable how things played out. I don't think Lawrence did anything wrong by accepting the contract; Holo didn't have a problem with it either until the whole hometown thing came up. Also, I don't really consider Amanty to be a "bad guy". He's knows what he wants and he's pursuing it. He likely sees himself as doing something admirable, and it's not hard to see why he would think so. In any case, I had a feeling there would be a falling out when Holo found out about her homeland. I don't blame Lawrence for not telling her (well, not entirely). It's easy to judge when you have an outside perspective. He thinks first and foremost with his brain rather than his heart, and at times he tends to overthink things and get himself into trouble. This is such a situation. I don't think Holo was wrong to react the way she did. She has feared loneliness from the beginning, and she's been focused on her homeland from the beginning. To lose that so suddenly, and to find out the one she came to depend on was hiding it from her, an emotional response is quite believable. She was jumping to conclusions rather quickly, but that's how people tend to react when they're emotional, so again, it's understandable. What I'm more interested in is what this outburst has revealed about Holo, namely that she still doesn't trust Lawrence even though she cares about him. She lied about being able to read, and her comment about having a child shows that she doesn't consider Lawrence as someone "with" her. She still thinks of herself as being alone. I can't help but wonder if this is baggage from the first person Holo traveled with. It was an intense and well-crafted episode. |
| Woah.. What a sudden turn of events.. Things just got serious in 4+ minutes or so.. I guess this is the first roadblock of their relationship.. Loving the developments but at the same time quite saddening.. After that event, next EP would definitely be interesting.. |
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| I don't like this at all, I don't like where it's going. I don't want to see Holo ending with that Amarty, heck, I even feel betrayed. I am also quite pissed, and, as others pointed out, Holo just acted quite childlish. I still have this assumption that she will end with Amarty in the end, and I don't like that! -.- |
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| I was quite surprised at Holo's reaction. Despite her occasional "childishness", you can always count on her going back to being the wise old wolf. So seeing her flip out like that felt almost a tad out of character. Having said that, Lawrence really should be more honest and forthright in his communication to her. Specially his feeling for her. He cannot solve every little thing with just merchant wisdom and analogies. Not everything can be bought, sold and exchanged. I hate the Amarty guy. What a meddlesome little busybody. I would have torn the contract up if I was Lawrence. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| Outburst was kinda quirky but reasonable. Loved the festival part though I wished there was more to it. |
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| Not cool Holo, not cool. |
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| Great episode, leaves me with high expectations on next one. Holo's reaction was reasonable, espiecially that she mentioned earlier that she doesn't want to end up alone. Infromation like that must really have got to her |
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| This episode broke my heart. |
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| Ugh, I knew him hiding that information from her would end up blowing up in his face. Holo's reaction was really quite heartbreaking, I felt so bad for her :(. The preview is also not looking to good for Lawrence, I hate that douchey little blond kid >_<. |
Shape430May 8, 2015 8:39 AM
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| Fuck this amarty maggot...jealous prick >.< |
| Lawrence, the strange man who rejected a horny Horo |
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| This season is waaaaaay more interesting than last season. I'm glad I kept watching. |
| "It's a tragic misunderstanding that could have been easily avoided if he just finished his sentence in time!" — Richard Watterson (The Amazing World of Gumball) |
| "You will have to mate with me!" I would jump on that opportunity in a heartbeat, Holo acting crazy or not. Things really got a bit crazy this episode. Reminds me why this show is a solid 8 despite my occasional boredom at the business side. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| Man, is Lawrence retarded or what? You don't just stand there repeating the name of the person you're talking to over and over again. I like drama as much as the next person but when characters are this stupid it makes it unbearable. |
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| This episode was painful to watch. Totally didn't expect Holo to have a mental breakdown like that. Finding out that you might be the last of your kind would be shocking for anyone I think. So much so that it seems like her natural instincts got the better of her, which is why she wanted to mate with Lawrence. I remember reading somewhere something about animals wanting to reproduce when they feel threatened or something like that. Which would kinda explain why Holo said such a thing. Lawrence not speaking up didn't really help the situation either but oh well I guess. Also fuck Amarty. Seriously, this guy seems like an absolute prick. |
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| I liked the reveal of the bear in these episodes. This conflict keeps on going. Nice journey anime. |
ZetaZeta said: Lawrence needs to use Geass on Horo, and fast. Well, I think he(Lelouch's VA) already did on Horo(Kallen's VA in Code Geass). Anyway, at least Kallen could make him feel shitty by repeating the same thing that he did when he said her to comfort him in Code Geass. |
 Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
| The only reason this is going badly for Lawrence is because he is a dumbass. She didn't run out of the room. He could have closed the door and calmly explained everything from his point of view. She can tell whether or not he is lying. OR He could just admit his feelings, whatever feelings he does have (even early on in season 1 it was obvious he cares about her and is attracted to her) and then BANG HER AND NOT STOP FOR 5 WEEKS BECAUSE DAT ASS! Like seriously. He is a dumbass. I like this series so far, but it is missing something, and now it's missing something else. Lawrence just went from being an interesting merchant to a generic dense anime protagonist. |
| Omne Solum Forti Patria |
BashZeStampeedo said: Hraktuus said: The only reason this is going badly for Lawrence is because he is a dumbass. Yes, people who have emotional issues often behave stupidly from the perspective of an outsider (Holo isn't immune from it either, as she amply demonstrates in this very same arc). Spice and Wolf is probably going to be a frustrating watch if you aren't willing to get into the character's heads or read between the lines. Um... no. Just no. Lawrence has already been demonstrated to be an intelligent character who already knows Holo's personality and how to handle her. I don't care how worked up you are, in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character. You're also acting as if I haven't already watched season 1. Pretty weird argument. Just because you like a show doesn't mean the writing is always going to be perfect. None of the show except for this arc of season 2 has been like this. It was a bad drawn out hiccup in an otherwise good show. Clearly you like the arc regardless, so we can just agree to disagree. |
| Omne Solum Forti Patria |
BashZeStampeedo said: Hraktuus said: I don't care how worked up you are, in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character. I guess if you're willing to set aside his obvious self-confidence issues when it comes to anything outside of business (as well as in business, given his recent near-bankruptcy), as well as ignore that he's never actually been able to handle Holo when she angrily corners him, then sure. To me it sounds more like you just think he should have gotten angry, and are upset that he didn't. Even when the show has demonstrated that getting angry like that just isn't in his nature. (I also have to wonder why Holo gets a pass from you despite being just as dumb this arc, but that's a different topic). Hraktuus said: You're also acting as if I haven't already watched season 1. Pretty weird argument. Just because you like a show doesn't mean the writing is always going to be perfect. None of the show except for this arc of season 2 has been like this. It was a bad drawn out hiccup in an otherwise good show. Clearly you like the arc regardless, so we can just agree to disagree. It's honestly not about whether you like it or not. You're pretty much supposed to dislike how Lawrence (and Holo) are behaving in this arc. It's meant to be frustrating. And even so there are plenty of reasons to dislike it regardless. I just question your analysis of his character and his behavior. It kind of does seem like you missed key details about his character, whether you actually watched season one or not. You're making far too many assumptions about what I want from the characters or what I think about the characters, and you're also acting as if you are some sort of expert on the show. I have a different interpretation than you, and I'm not going to argue with you when you make assumptions without basis. Just accept it and move along. And seriously, learn how to debate without resorting to fallacies. |
| Omne Solum Forti Patria |
BashZeStampeedo said: Hraktuus said: You're making far too many assumptions about what I want from the characters or what I think about the characters, and you're also acting as if you are some sort of expert on the show. I have a different interpretation than you, and I'm not going to argue with you when you make assumptions without basis. Just accept it and move along. And seriously, learn how to debate without resorting to fallacies. We never even had a "debate", so there was no room for any related "fallacies". Of course I'm going to move on if you don't want to even have a discussion, but then maybe you should not be posting on a discussion forum in the first place. Make a blog if you just want to shout at the world, and don't have the courage to back up your opinions. Or better still, just watch some more anime instead. Dude, you were rude and made assumptions about what I was thinking. Maybe change how you talk to people if you don't want responses like this. I've posted far more on these forums and have a good record of what I've watched, so you hardly have room to talk. I'd be plenty willing to back up everything I said to someone who didn't make assumptions and talked politely. I will likely discuss these very same things with someone who is far more of a narcissist than you, but the difference is he knows how to discuss such things hence I can respect him. EDIT: To make it absolutely clear, it's not worth my time making an argument to defend my points if all of your responses are going to make assumptions. I said A and you assumed that must mean I thought B when I really thought C. After it was clear you would keep responding in that fashion, I lost interest. You will keep getting negative responses if you don't change this. Good luck on the internet, dude. |
HraktuusJan 16, 2018 9:44 AM
| Omne Solum Forti Patria |
I swear the extreme contrasts are going to kill me. First we got cute Holo all excited waging with her tail cause she wanted to dance, but then DRAMA Intense episode, had goosebumps. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Woah... Holo went crazy mode this time. I hope things will go well... |
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| he should have taken her offer and become her mate |
| Holo saying make love with her oh Lawrence what have you done... |
| I mean, Lawrence handled that whole conversation quite poorly. But Holo really made a fool out of herself. Wise wolf my ass. |
| This just keeps on happening I guess... Seeing Holo so stressed is... rare... and painful also. She is practically losing her sanity, going as far as proposing Lawrence to make love to each other and so forth. But I can honestly understand Lawrence in this situation. Like, what can he say or do to make her calm down: "Chillax, it's all a joke, the Konoh- I mean Yaitsu is safe and sound?". The situation cannot be solved just by words alone it seems. On the other hand though, what else can Holo do besides going to Yaitsu anyway? There will be at least some chance of all this being not in vain. I really want to see how this will progress. |
[right]=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=  |
| This particular arc really is predictable with its direction, the show loves to pull the rug on Lawrence as his relationship with Holo is constantly tested as its the show's easiest way of conceiving drama and tension out of it. It's well justified for Holo's side since all she wanted to know was the truth about her home and she even did ask if Lawrence was genuine about it when he revealed that he figured out the directions to Yoitsu somewhat, even when he knew about the state of Holo's homeland. Lawrence is in quite some trouble now as his confident side's shattered and knowing now that Amarti is closing in on paying the debt and according to how fictional stories work, she would maybe 'go to his side', it just causes more issues for him. Best thing about the episode I have to say, is the dub voice acting, especially from Brina Palencia as Holo. Her performance at the end was strong and definitely felt emotive and passionate. |
| Kinda childish the way she's behaving now.... since Lawrence has been treating and pampering her with so much kindness.. I understand she was shocked by the information she just read, but I didn't like what she did and said to Lawrence. But Lawrence was wrong, too. He didn't say anything, just left the room like that. Anyone would have misunderstood. |
hanakocheeksJul 3, 2021 1:12 AM
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| That was a really tense episode. He really could've explained himself better. Looks like make or break for Lawrence, but sometimes it doesn't go right for him. |
| I'm not a lolicon, you're just projecting your tendency to lewd 2D characters. If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
| Lawrence open your goddamn mouth dude |
  死神 ❝What do you think are the most important things in life? Money, dreams, sympathy towards others... Yes, they're all important things as well... But the most important thing is responsibility for your own actions.❞ - Yuichi |
| why would holo lie about not being able to read? seems kind of manipulative. |
| Wow, this is probably my favorite episode of this entire season just for the intensity of that last scene alone. It was just so out of left field but it was an interesting conversation that brings up odd questions. The way Lawrence just left after that outburst was also sad, he definitely should have talked it through better. Also Holo's eyes glowing during that scene was unsettling. |
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| This show is excellent, truly it is, but this has been by far my least favourite episode so far. First, why would Holo have lied about not being able to read last episode? What did she gain from lying to Lawrence about that? It's not as if she knew the events of this episode would happen beforehand so she could get Lawrence to leave that letter about Yoitsu behind in the room. I can't fathom any reason for that lie to be told other than to trick the viewer. More to the point, why is some folk tale the turning point that makes her instantly assume that Yoitsu is gone? Surely she must have had a thought at least once on this journey that Yoitsu may not be as she knew it anymore after she left it what seems to be millenia ago (based on how long she seems to have been the god of the village Lawrence found her in); she comments numerous times throughout the show about how humans and civilisation have changed over the years (particularly in terms of the Church's growing influence), so she must have at least suspected it. On top of that, even if she does think Yoitsu is destroyed, she knows for a fact that she is not the last of the giant wolves as she met that "young one" at the end of season 1: surely she would remember that and be aware of the possibility that some of her family survived and left Yoitsu to continue the species, even if she takes the story of their destruction at total face value. And that's another point: with how Holo has been characterised thus far, I cannot see her ever taking such a story at face value like this, so it's very clearly a decision made to drive the plot rather than because it makes sense for her to do. As for Lawrence, I thought he was acting very much in character throughout the "argument" (which was thoroughly one-sided as it was just Holo ranting at him), but why did he just leave at the end of it rather than trying to actually explain himself properly? The way he's been characterised so far, I feel like he'd do his best to explain himself, but probably unsuccessfully as he does struggle to find the right words sometimes when dealing with Holo. Either way, the only thing he's really done wrong in this whole situation is rather flippantly making that comment about letting her go to Yoitsu alone once they got closer, and Holo is absolutely right to call him out on that. But why would he mention the folk story about Yoitsu's destruction to Holo to begin with? Until seeing Deanna just before this argument broke out, I can't see him actually taking that story seriously enough to think it worth mentioning to her: he's only taking that story seriously now because he heard it again (as well as other stories about Holo) and because he has spent long enough around Holo to know the truth, but at that point it's in character for him to not bring it up as a sensitive topic given how well the two have established such boundaries about certain topics. Alternatively, this is just one big game from Holo to get Lawrence to prove his affections for her. Now that would very much be in character for her, but it's also seriously messed up and no foundation to build a relationship on. Either way, it's kind of weird how this has only come up now rather than being mentioned even in passing in season 1: I think Yoitsu was only mentioned something like five times at most in season 1, and it was never suggested that Lawrence was familiar with it (all it would have taken would have been to have him make a small but noticeable reaction to her mentioning it when they first met to at least foreshadow that he knows but is choosing to keep quiet about it). Actually, the biggest question that arises for me from this whole situation: of all the cover stories Lawrence could choose to explain Holo's presence with him, why did he choose the one that makes him look like an utter scumbag to give Amarty a motive to step in to try and "save" Holo from him? It's such a suspicious cover story that I'm amazed either of them thought it was acceptable, especially after the problems that arose at the end of season 1 because of their time together: surely, surely they could have thought of something that wouldn't arouse such strong suspicions like this. |
AtavisticJul 21, 2022 12:49 PM
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