'Kono Manga ga Sugoi!' 2023 Rankings Revealed

Tokoya said:

RobertBobert said:

Again. There are special manga magazines that are owned by LN brands that mainly publish manga adaptations of their IP. In this case, DD publishes a manga adaptation of Dengeki Bunko's LN. And most of their non-LN titles are either moe works like Azumanga and Railgun or yuri like Yagatte Kimi ni Naru. You don't need to be an expert to know this. And yes, Yuri Hime doesn't post "mostly yuri". It's literally just yuri magazine. I know that's not what you meant, but if you have another bout of argument for the sake of argument, then I will go to meet you You also misrepresented my comment by taking words about yuri out of context to accuse me of saying the magazine ONLY publishes yuri, but I'll pretend I didn't see it

This is first. Secondly, publications outside the mainstream audience quite often publish rather unconventional works that are either outside the traditional works for that demographic or publish all sorts of stuff for a wider audience. UP is a web-manga sub-brand of YA's exist for this type of work. If you look at their portfolio, you will find not only GL/BL, but even shoujo-like manga.

https://natalie.mu/comic/news/170195 Which makes perfect sense, as Natalie just calls it a "web manga brand" without mentioning any demographics. So the victory of this manga in the male manga section is really a formality.

People have the right to read what they like and refuse what they are not interested in. To be honest, I'm starting to get annoyed at the idea being promoted that you have to have an interest in gay manga in order not to be considered homophobic.

I appreciate you for the backup brother....Couldn't have said it any better myself

I'm just tired of people who say that you have to be forced to read and be interested in something in order not to be ashamed as a bigot.

Maou_heika said:

erikkamirs said:
'Hikaru' (white hair) likes Yoshiki (black hair), but Yoshiki is hesitant to continue their relationship because 'Hikaru' is a monster who has taken over his childhood friend's flesh. They have a scene in the gym storage room where Yoshiki sticks his hand in 'Hikaru''s chest hole. It's only hot for people who are already into body horror, otherwise it's just weird.

I like horror + mystery but not BL because of rapey BL tropes (straight guy "comes out" as gay after being raped/abused/harassed by persistent/obsessive hot gay dude for example). Also I don't like Junji Ito style horror which gets too gory/grotesque. How much body horror does this have? Can I read this?

nls__ said:
Simply put, it would be a shame not to be able to enjoy the work because of some of the subtle elements.

Can you elaborate on what these "subtle elements" I can expect?

Well, many yuri repeat this, especially action and ecchi. And I know a bunch of guys who un-ironically love it, as their fetishization of lesbians goes to the level of outright hostility towards men.

Dec 19, 2022 5:34 AM by RobertBobert

RobertBobert said:

Kuma said:

this is manga magazine we are talking about. not LN label. yes but Young Ace is NOT those magazine. also no, dangeki daioh is not mainly publish yuri, wtf. that's comic yuri hime.

Again. There are special manga magazines that are owned by LN brands that mainly publish manga adaptations of their IP. In this case, DD publishes a manga adaptation of Dengeki Bunko's LN. And most of their non-LN titles are either moe works like Azumanga and Railgun or yuri like Yagatte Kimi ni Naru. You don't need to be an expert to know this. And yes, Yuri Hime doesn't post "mostly yuri". It's literally just yuri magazine. I know that's not what you meant, but if you have another bout of argument for the sake of argument, then I will go to meet you You also misrepresented my comment by taking words about yuri out of context to accuse me of saying the magazine ONLY publishes yuri, but I'll pretend I didn't see it

This is first. Secondly, publications outside the mainstream audience quite often publish rather unconventional works that are either outside the traditional works for that demographic or publish all sorts of stuff for a wider audience. UP is a web-manga sub-brand of YA's exist for this type of work. If you look at their portfolio, you will find not only GL/BL, but even shoujo-like manga.

https://natalie.mu/comic/news/170195 Which makes perfect sense, as Natalie just calls it a "web manga brand" without mentioning any demographics. So the victory of this manga in the male manga section is really a formality.

MadanielFL said:

What's the problem with BL? lol

Luisito14 said:

So? Let the prejudice beside. Don t let it stops you to read a good story. Hikaru is a great manga, the story is darkening and intriguing, and the relantionship between the boys is sad, but they have a nice dynamics.

People have the right to read what they like and refuse what they are not interested in. To be honest, I'm starting to get annoyed at the idea being promoted that you have to have an interest in gay manga in order not to be considered homophobic.

I appreciate you for the backup brother....Couldn't have said it any better myself

Dec 19, 2022 5:26 AM by Tokoya

Oh, I'm glad to see that six of the works I read this year are in the rankings.

Dec 18, 2022 6:59 PM by kihel

What's the point of rushing to make a manga top with links if literally half of the manga listed aren't in the DB even? First add them, then make a list with links to MAL entries, no?

Dec 17, 2022 11:29 PM by St0rmblade

Maou_heika said:

erikkamirs said:
'Hikaru' (white hair) likes Yoshiki (black hair), but Yoshiki is hesitant to continue their relationship because 'Hikaru' is a monster who has taken over his childhood friend's flesh. They have a scene in the gym storage room where Yoshiki sticks his hand in 'Hikaru''s chest hole. It's only hot for people who are already into body horror, otherwise it's just weird.

I like horror + mystery but not BL because of rapey BL tropes (straight guy "comes out" as gay after being raped/abused/harassed by persistent/obsessive hot gay dude for example). Also I don't like Junji Ito style horror which gets too gory/grotesque. How much body horror does this have? Can I read this?

it's definitely not a sweet wholesome relationship. it's not rapey either, but it's sort of uncomfortable? in the way that one is like an eldritch being under the skin of the other dude's childhood friend. so there's some persistence/slight obsession, but it's less rapey and more... inhuman i guess? like i kinda feel like i'm looking at a trainwreck waiting to happen lol. the artstyle also makes things feel uncomfortable in general. none of the characters gives off the "hot/sexy/handsome" vibe that most BLs have. most characters also don't look like nice people. the mystery is definitely there, in an eerie, small town horror folk tale/conspiracy type of way

the body horror is less gore, and more on the eldritch, unnatural, supernatural side. like, you expect organs but it's a black hole, or you want skin, but it suddenly sorta melts into a bunch of artistic organ patterns. it's not super prevalent yet in the manga because most of the time the "being" is still looking like the childhood friend.

Dec 16, 2022 9:37 PM by SkyFullOfStars

erikkamirs said:
'Hikaru' (white hair) likes Yoshiki (black hair), but Yoshiki is hesitant to continue their relationship because 'Hikaru' is a monster who has taken over his childhood friend's flesh. They have a scene in the gym storage room where Yoshiki sticks his hand in 'Hikaru''s chest hole. It's only hot for people who are already into body horror, otherwise it's just weird.

I like horror + mystery but not BL because of rapey BL tropes (straight guy "comes out" as gay after being raped/abused/harassed by persistent/obsessive hot gay dude for example). Also I don't like Junji Ito style horror which gets too gory/grotesque. How much body horror does this have? Can I read this?

nls__ said:
Simply put, it would be a shame not to be able to enjoy the work because of some of the subtle elements.

Can you elaborate on what these "subtle elements" I can expect?

Dec 16, 2022 4:54 AM by Maou_heika

"hikaru ga shinda natsu" is not an "otokonoko" work.
However, it is too early to conclude that it is not for men (it is a BL manga for women).

In fact, there are more than 2,000 reviews on Amazon.co.jp in Japan, and there are many highly rated reviews from men.

Also, the comedian Akira Kawashima introduced this work on a TV information program (he is one of the best known comedians in Japan with one of the highest number of TV appearances per year, and is also known as a manga lover; Kawashima is a man in his 40s with a wife and children).

Many Japanese readers perceive it as a horror piece in the vein of "Aono-kun ni Sawaritai kara Shinitai" in which the horror creeps up on you slowly.

It is true, of course, that he has many female fans. However, it is not a work that excludes male fans, and I think it is a wonderful work that can be enjoyed by men as well.
This is my objective opinion as a Japanese.

Simply put, it would be a shame not to be able to enjoy the work because of some of the subtle elements.

Dec 15, 2022 6:36 PM by nls__

>male reader's top 1
>yaoi

I just saw how the world will end.

Dec 15, 2022 9:38 AM by _Ako_

Swagernator said:

Kuma said:
wow that casual homophobia and sexism, dang, as expected of MAL. this is NOT the first time BL title won male category awards. that honor goes to what did you eat yesterday?. while i am not into BL genre either (often too fetishy for me, horror thriller is not my preference either), watching this manga sales growth and pointed out it's a seinen title always has been amusing to see. this sales number can not be supported by fujoshi alone. seems like the fact that male demographic in japan welcomed stuff they didn't expect hurt their ego.

Its more about the fact that the middle aged cat ladies have all the time to vote for their favorite manga, rather than 14 years old boys who need to clean their room and finish their homework first.

Not to mention the buying potential of a working person, against someone whos still in a middle/high school with no income to spend.

you do realize that manga in japan is really cheap and common consumer goods even for children, right? literally nothing to do with cat ladies when everyone in japan can buy manga or vote for this. that's how fujimoto used to win this works twice in a row now placed 2nd.

RobertBobert said:
Then you don't realize how much you are complicating yourself and trying to challenge things that were never a problem. Certain seinen magazines have been used for years to publish overly specific shoujo manga in the hope of appealing to a female audience that you can't reach in a normal shoujo magazine (just don't say you've never heard of the modern migration of demographics between manga magazines). Trying to dispute this somehow, you are just fighting windmills. Probably because it's too personal for you to admit that BL-like work has never appealed to a male audience outside of formal publication in a men's magazine.

I'm sorry, but the way you argue for the sake of an argument, take words out of context, or generally find fault with words, only confirm what I said.

again, you clearly didn't listen to my talking point and using personal attack instead. like come on, i even bold my plot point and your reply has nothing to do with it. Seinen/shounen magazine editorial looking for more wider audience works because they believe it will attract new reader but you can't attract new reader if the series it self didn't survive it first few volume sales, which really dependent on already existing reader. Shoujo-like series didn't just given advantage by published in male demographic as if they suddenly have wider outreach to female audience, that's just untrue. they still have to survive by attracting already existing reader which majority male dominated magazine. there bare minimum appeal they have to compromise to be survive by attracting already existing male demographic while attracting new female reader to magazine, otherwise it would be cancelled like which exactly what happen with kageki shoujo. there is nothing personal here, i don't even read series. but to discredit an artist works as "formality" "save sales" totally oversimplifies how much thought artist and editor put to make a success series. and it is undisputable fact that this series was such a huge success that it won uphill battle against more popular more catered toward it intended demographic which impressive on it's own.

Dec 15, 2022 7:11 AM by Kuma

Luisito14 said:

RobertBobert said:

Luisito14 said:

RobertBobert said:

Luisito14 said:

RobertBobert said:

Luisito14 said:

RobertBobert said:

Luisito14 said:

RobertBobert said:

MadanielFL said:

RobertBobert said:
To be honest, I'm starting to get annoyed at the idea being promoted that you have to have an interest in gay manga in order not to be considered homophobic.

Did I ever say that? lol

Then why did you start mocking him just because BL scares him away from work?

nls__ said:
I am a Japanese male and I think "Hikaru ga Shinda Natsu" is a wonderful manga.
It is not a "BL manga" but rather a story in which the boy's secret homosexuality is a necessary element.
The protagonist's thoughts, combined with the eeriness of a god ≒ yokai-like being that is passed down orally in a closed community, leads to a good, creepy experience...

Butbutbut, I honestly have my doubts about this piece being "No.1". I don't think this work is in a position to be "No.1."
As in any contest... Kono Manga ga Sugoi! (This manga is amazing!)' is 'Kono Manga wo Uritai!', I guess it means 'want to market this manga from now on!'.
And this commercialistic trend seems to be growing stronger every year.

Depending on the context in which to speak. If about BL as an official genre - perhaps. But broadly speaking, it just doesn't matter. This is still a male queer work with a queer protagonist that will attract and repel certain audiences. And these are not otokonoko works that, at least in theory, are aimed at a male audience.

You don t make the question for me, but I will answer. Because this is homophobia. You can say the excuse you want for that, if it makes you feel better, but don t changes the fact this is homophobia.

Are you now literally and non-ironically saying that your lack of interest in gay content makes you a homophobe? So, are people who ignore straight content finally legally heterophobic?

And how many times did you see someone refuses read/watch a good story only becauses it s straight? I am sure wasn t that much. In same time, I all the time see people don t read/watch a story only because "bruh, it s gay, bruh" and I am forced to have to read any excuse they give, to try justify a thing that is obvious homophobia.

You did not answer my question. And yes, I see people complaining about straight content all the time, especially if they were expecting something gay. To the
point where I still remember one dude refusing to watch Bloom into you after learning that Yuu's sister was in a relationship with a man.

Maybe they could be considered heterophobics. I already see people who are tired of this idea of heterosexuality that is the only way to live, to try force on us since always. But yes, the answer is yes.

Do I understand correctly that you yourself are trying to justify heterophobes by saying that they are "just tired of heterosexuality", but at the same time openly trying to shame homophobes? Why can't some "tired of homosexuality" by this logic work with them?

I will explain. Some gay people are tired of heterosexuality, because it s only what we see everywhere. It s only what it s teached us since kids, it s only what we see in any media, all the time. We rarely has stories next our reality, in the opposite with that, we are teached that if we won t straights, we are wrong, we are the worst thing on Earth. In fact, I saw a post about this yesterday, from a youtuber from here. Straight relationship are in all the places, in all the medias, even in that not about romance. In the opposite, gay relantionships are just growing up now, there is not so much of them, in comparation. Tired of gay? Honestly, how many times a straight refers to gay if don t to say it s a bad thing? How many times a straight don t considered gay a bad thing? Personally, is this what I am tired, is this what I want to finish. I am tired to be considered a bad thing.

Do you seriously not realize that "who is more - who is less" is blatantly childish thinking, which does not affect the fact that accusing those who are not interested in gay fiction or complaining that the world around you is straight is sheer nonsense? Developing the theme, does the lack of interest in shows about Jews mean anti-Semitism, shows about POC people racism, shows about characters of the opposite sex or gender identity - sexism and transphobia? And, accordingly, people need to be forced to watch all this through force, otherwise they will legally be perceived by moral guards as intolerant bigots?

Look, I try to explain to you, you clearly don t want to understand. People should be more open to things out of their reality, is this. In my opinion, this would be a way to change the world. I won t answer you anymore, I am only losing my time here. Goodbye, and have a nice life.

I sincerely doubt that attempts, under fear of moral condemnation, to force people to watch what they no longer like, will somehow make the world a better place, and not vice versa, make it more totalitarian and toxic.

Dec 15, 2022 5:10 AM by RobertBobert