Should japanese words that everyone already knows (honorifics senpai baka etc) be translated or should the subtitles use the original japanese words?
| This reminds of old fansubs that put subs on everything like laughing, sneezing, etc. |
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| They should just leave honorifics like -senpai, -kun, -chan that aren't translated to English. But words like baka, and animal words still should be translated because the words makes sense when translated. Personally there's only one thing that bothers me: it's when the characters says "onii-chan" or "onee-chan" and translated as just their name, I'd prefer it translated as "brother"/"sister". But maybe because I come from a country that has those honorifics too. |
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| I mean, what about those who just started watching anime? They wouldn't know It also sometimes feel weird when they just throw japanese words. But yeah, I guess some words have no meaning in english? I think honorifics should be in the subtitles and stuff. Also, the japanese words in the subtitles would mean lots of translator's notes like this |
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javitaxy said: awww I like when fansubs do silly things like thatI mean, what about those who just started watching anime? They wouldn't know It also sometimes feel weird when they just throw japanese words. But yeah, I guess some words have no meaning in english? I think honorifics should be in the subtitles and stuff. Also, the japanese words in the subtitles would mean lots of translator's notes like this |
| Personally, I'm not a fan of mixed sub. If english, better use english and not mix it with japanese. Unless it's relevant to the scene/word or is hard to translate, for example -> - Ahomine instead of stupid-mine is better. And then put note that aho means stupid. - Same with Bakagami instead of stupid-gami. - Aomine-cchi also the -cchi shouldn't be omitted. As for -senpai, I prefer if it's omitted. Same with -sama, I prefer if they use Lord Shinya instead of Shinya-sama. |
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| it depends on how it translate. Baka just means idiot, which is pretty translatable, so it would be weird if it was translated. I prefer to keep senpai and kouhai bc we dont really call each other junior and senior in the west, so it just feels awkward. Honorifics should also stay. And then things like tsundere, which i've seen translated to hot/cold personaility, should just stay as tsundere. |
   I swear, I don't have a thing for blondes. |
| Depends on the type of anime. If it's set in Japan and/or Japanese culture figures prominently, then I want to see the honorifics because they help denote things like status, relationships, respect etc. When a character switches from using -san to -chan as they get closer to someone for example, you miss out on that added texture. If it's some generic fantasy or sci-fi world that could be anywhere and isn't particularly Japanese, then it's not so important to me. As for other words like baka, I don't mind what the translator does as long as it's fitting for the characters/scene. A good translator will convey the most germane meaning possible in those cases, and that's fine because the underlying emotional or other content being expressed usually crosses cultures even if the words themselves don't. |
jc9622 said: Shirayukin said: Here in Canada (or the Western Culture in general), that'd sound way too awkward. No one here calls their siblings as "brother" or "sister". That's way too formal, especially if you and your siblings have known each other since birth. As far as I'm aware, siblings call each other by their first names, nicknames or "bro" and "sis". Personally there's only one thing that bothers me: it's when the characters says "onii-chan" or "onee-chan" and translated as just their name, I'd prefer it translated as "brother"/"sister". But maybe because I come from a country that has those honorifics too. Now, when you're telling another person that that person is your sibling then we obviously say "That's my brother/sister". Ah yes, I thought "brother" or "sister" might be too formal. I was actually thinking just "bro" or "sis", but I guess that's still too unusual? |
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| Everything translated in English except the honorifics which should stay Japanese for consistency. I'm always up for "Translator's Notes" for uncommon phrases and words though. |
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| Translate the words that have proper translations without sounding ridiculous in English Leave the rest Not that complicated |
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| No, honorifics should be translated or omitted if it comes down to it. No need to confuse new comers with a bunch of Japanese words. |
| With honorífics, left with the proper translator's note. They are a very relevant and unique part of the language that is better explained than adapted, at least in subs, because there's not a clear equivalence in other languages. Other words like senpai (when it's not used as an honorífic) or baka, which have a clear translation and do have an equivalence, by no means should be left like that in a minimally serious translation. That is what I think at least. Leaving parts of the text untouched is not bad by default, it can help understand the context to the viewer. But you need to know how, and you also need to sub for people who are not into the subculture, don't know or just arrived. Anybody can read your subs, not just hardcore otakus. |
| nah I personally don't mind it being the original Japanese, but it definitely makes sense to make it English. There are so, so many ways Japanese can be translated as you can never directly translate Japanese and there are many interpretations, but for honorifics it should be quite simple, although it is up to the subber(s). Personally, I respect making it the English way, as there are many things you can think of when translating something, and that's just the best way to do such a thing without the least conflict. But when translating Japanese, there will probably always be conflicts. So, it's up to the sub group. I don't really mind it that much. |
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| It's the job of a good translator to translate everything in his language. For the case of Japanese I can understand leaving the honorifics when two japaneses peoples speak to each other, but technically even that should be avoided. And if the characters speaking are not japanese then there's really no reason to keep them. |
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| In my opinion san,chan senpai etc should be kept in sub but words like baka must have english. |
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| I believe all words should be translated apart from specific cultural things like names of foods. As for honorifics, they should be left untranslated if the show takes place in japan and translated in other cases. Having words like baka and nakama left it the subs makes them weird and unnatural even if I understand what those words mean. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Everything you can't translate literally (honorifics) and words we don't normaly use (senior or junior = senpai and kohai) should be left as they are. But why would anyone leave 'baka' untranslated when we have a word for that one? |
| I don't really know. Honestly a random japanese word in middle of an english sentence makes it sound pretty cringy |
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printsmyon said: also what about animal sounds like nya and wan wan! anyone who doesn't watch enough anime to know the basic words like that will probably just watch the english dub anyway so I think it makes more sense when they leave in words like that especially if it's something that doesn't really translate to english, like when they translate baka to idiot or senpai to upperclassman That logic makes no sense. How did most of us learn about their meanings? By watching subbed anime. We didn't magically wake up with that knowledge one day, we extrapolated it from watching subs. There's always gonna be people watching anime for whom japanese is new and who don't already know what these things mean. That's what translations are for. If you don't like japanese words being translated in your subs, watch raws for all I care but it's stupid to suggest not translating perfectly translatable words like baka or senpai just to cater to your personal weebness. The only alternative as a translator are translation notes and while I don't mind them people seem to hate them nowadays so they mostly disappeared. But just completely ignoring half your text and not translate it at all? I'd fire the fuck out of you if you tried to hand in some half-assed translation like that. Weeb agendas have nothing to do in the translation sciences. |
AlcoholicideAug 14, 2020 5:24 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| It would be great if they leave the honorific the way it is.I would prefer onee-sama over SISSY any day. |
printsmyon said: also what about animal sounds like nya and wan wan!  ignore this is for character count. |
goldenskinmaster said: it depends on how it translate. Baka just means idiot, which is pretty translatable, so it would be weird if it was translated. Actually it would be weird if they didn't translate that.Like why...? It's just a normal word that is in literally every language unlike chan or san.Alright words like sensei, senpai and others are more common so it wouldn't be weird if they aren't translated but still that doesn't mean they can't for example not translate shishou javitaxy said: Also, the japanese words in the subtitles would mean lots of translator's notes like this Let's just leave the notes for references or cultural things |
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| Japanese honourifics don't necessarily translate well into English. So it's down to how they are used if it's worth keeping in translation. |
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Dragonland04 said: I don't know how would they translate honorifics but the common words should on being used the first time be translated like on the top of the screen there can be a note that says "_ word means _" and then they can use original japanese words that used to be common with terms that have tricky or impossible single-word translations but whiny anime fans complained about translation notes too when they were a thing so they eventually died out for the most part and were replaced by what we have now - eitther no translation at all or some awkward translation that doesn't quite feel right. The lesson here is that anime fans are entitled pricks who will always, always rant and whine about the status quo, no matter what. Trying to cater to them is like a dog chasing its own tail. They'll find, or rather generate 'issues' to complain about out of thin air. If things were differently than they are now in terms of translations, the same people would probably complain why they aren't like they are now. Being unhappy is what makes the average anime fan happy, is my theory. It's all about complaint equity. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Fatephile said: Actually it would be weird if they didn't translate that.Like why...? It's just a normal word that is in literally every language unlike chan or san yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, I just suck at writing |
| I swear, I don't have a thing for blondes. |
| Im not really sure since people that get new into anime wouldnt understand it (but overall i dont really care as long as they dont translate onii-chan and onee-chan xD) |
_cjessop19_ said: printsmyon said: also what about animal sounds like nya and wan wan! ignore this is for character count. I feel so enlightened. You shouldn't translate honorfics. It never sounds right, since they are something japanese- or chinese-exclusive and have cultural backgrounds. |
| When I do translations I always keep the honorifics. There's just no way to translate it accurately in English because it tells so much about the relationships between the characters. If the people watching/reading are unfamiliar with these untranslated honorifics, they'll probably slowly catch the gist over time anyway as they watch and read more. For other "common" Japanese words, I think they should still be translated since there are appropriate words for them. But so far I think I've kept senpai as it is once or twice, because it completely slipped my mind that there are English words for that LOL. But these still aren't as eye-burning as "-san" becoming "Mr" etc so I'm alright with either case. |
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| Leave honorifics out unless they can be translated but translate other spoken words, sometimes non-spoken words needs to be translated too only IF they're necessary but not all over the screen trying to match the actual fonts, that shit is fucking annoying. Animal sounds? I'm not sure, are they part of the dialogue? are they necessary? do they matter? if yes, then yes, if no, then no. |
TheBerserkerAug 14, 2020 8:56 AM
| Honorifics, suffixes, and words that don't have natural translations into English should be left as-is, but saying "words that everyone already knows" is a bit vague, and not a good way to measure or group together anything. Yeah, sure, you may know what "baka" means now, but I bet you didn't when you watched your first show; saying that everyone who doesn't know what these words mean already watch/should watch the English dub is amazingly elitist and dumb. We know what those words mean precisely BECAUSE we've seen them translated into subtitles multiple times; it should be the same for newcomers to anime. On the other hand, there are words that don't really translate well into English, like uniquely Japanese constructions such as "tsundere"; brother/sister titles like "onii-chan" and "onee-san" also come to mind. And of course, honorifics and suffixes like "senpai", "-san", "-chan", etc. cannot be translated without sounding amazingly awkward (who the hell calls a classmate "Mister X"??) and losing the meaning of the original. If possible, these should be kept in, as they do no harm, and only add to the viewer's understanding and enjoyment of the show. |
Yes, the point of translation is to translate, that is literally the translator's job. There might be some veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery far in between edge cases (that most likely you, dumb weeb who is reading this, do not know about, you just think you do and you're wrong) where it's appropriate to conserve honorifics, but other than that, pretty much never. |
| I think subtitles with Japanese honorifics do not preserve their original meanings, because we do not have the same understanding of these words as a Japanese person does. I have seen subtitles that replace the original Japanese honorific with a different Japanese honorific, presumably to better appeal to weebs. E.G. han—>san |
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Squilon said: Honorifics, suffixes, and words that don't have natural translations into English should be left as-is, but saying "words that everyone already knows" is a bit vague, and not a good way to measure or group together anything. Yeah, sure, you may know what "baka" means now, but I bet you didn't when you watched your first show; saying that everyone who doesn't know what these words mean already watch/should watch the English dub is amazingly elitist and dumb. We know what those words mean precisely BECAUSE we've seen them translated into subtitles multiple times; it should be the same for newcomers to anime. On the other hand, there are words that don't really translate well into English, like uniquely Japanese constructions such as "tsundere"; brother/sister titles like "onii-chan" and "onee-san" also come to mind. And of course, honorifics and suffixes like "senpai", "-san", "-chan", etc. cannot be translated without sounding amazingly awkward (who the hell calls a classmate "Mister X"??) and losing the meaning of the original. If possible, these should be kept in, as they do no harm, and only add to the viewer's understanding and enjoyment of the show. I know this is about subbed anime, but do they still have those lists of honorifics and their meanings in translated manga...? That's how I figured out what -san/-chan/-kun/etc. meant. I don't necessarily mind if subs preserve honorifics or not, but honestly? I prefer it when they retain them. They don't need to put a translator's note about what they mean and what it reveals about relationships between characters, because I think that's something you naturally pick up on as you watch more anime. (Besides, like, we have the internet now.) Words like baka? Of course that should get translated to dummy/stupid/whatever. If something has a natural English translation, it should get translated. Words like otaku and tsundere? That... gets a bit more difficult. Sure, those could get translated to "geek" and "two-faced beeyatch", but it really depends on the context. Again, it's not hard to pause the video and google some term you don't know. But yessss, hearing -san get translated to "Miss/Mister" (when used between peers) and onee/onii-san translated to "Big Sis/Big Brother" in dubs is like nails on a chalkboard to me. NO ONE. TALKS. LIKE THAT. If you're trying to localize the dialogue and make it sound more natural, then that's a terrible job. :/ Honestly? I think dubs that take place in, say, a Japanese high school should retain honorifics. Dubbed anime that takes place in a fantasy/sci-fi world or whatever should do their best to translate them into something that sounds normal to English-speaking viewers. Subs in general, I think, should offer more of a literal (even if awkward) translation. I like dubs, and I don't mind if they need to take some liberties to make dialogue sound more natural, or for jokes/wordplay to make sense. But when I watch something subbed, imo it needs to be more of a direct translation or else I feel like I'm missing out on what the characters are really saying in Japanese. |
| They should be kept in original Japanese words imo Watching those subs give me more weeb vibes lol like kaizoku fansubs did for earlier one piece episodes |
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| they should be translated and properly localized as otherwise it wouldn't read and flow naturally in English. You can see this in a lot of old subs with stuff like Death Note's infamous "According to Keikaku" and the old One Piece subs using "Nakama" |
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| Honorifics should never be translated. Onee-sama should never be darling. |
| Nowadays some dub anime has some Japanese word like ''SEMPAI SAN KUN CHAN " etc... So you see they literally use subtitles as a script.... |
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| Imo honorifics that have no exact equivalent in English (like chan, kun, tan, etc) should be left untranslated, as translating them could result in ambiguity (like I’ve seen kun be translated as Mr, which is just not fitting since kun has a completely different meaning), but words that do have English counterparts (such as senpai, kouhai, onii-chan, onee-chan, san) can be translated. As one poster pointed out before, it also bugs me how translators replace onii-chan/onee-chan with the person’s name. Other Japanese words should always be translated imo, unless there’s a specific context reason (for example I’m fine with nakama being left untranslated in One Piece, as friend/comrade will have a different meaning or connotation). Simple words like Baka should always be translated imo, unless as I just said there’s a context reason |
| Honorifics, no. You can have some leeway, but I prefer them not translated. I've done some translation jobs and I never change them. If it's X-san, I leave it X-san. Same with Senpai, Kouhai, Onii, Onee. Certain words like "baka, hentai, kawaii" I change that cause that's cringe asf leaving it like that. Words like Nyaa. It at least has to be consistent throughout the work, I don't mind if it is Nyaa or Meow, but it can't keep changing. There's a pretty good (albeit controversial) article about this called "Confessions of a Manga translator" by Zack Davisson. Pretty good read, and it shows you how the process goes. |
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| makes it a bit weird if you end up watching with someone who doesn't watch or hasn't seen much anime. both options are needed sometimes, the translations that they go with are usually not that great tho tbh |
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