Lord_Sithis said: I'd argue that that's a pretentious use of the word pretentious. Utena is the most pretentious overrated garbage out there. |
| we can usually excuse the anime for having caught up to the manga in its past when the endings are a bit off (fx kenshin, zatch bell, sharman king) |
| Sonic X is basically an isekai |
| Considering we're in 2018 and the average age of the users of this site, nostalgia titles were most likely made between the late 90s up to the early 10s. Some users place the "old anime" status for those titles that came before the 00s (mostly due to the normalisation of digital animation roughly by that time) and others such as myself prefer to place it almost half a decade before for several, other more specific reasons. Which all in all means that most "nostalgia" titles are not even that old to start with. Then, OP really is talking about numbers, even referring to some other people's ratings and how they differ to his. Literally like i have about 10 people who share similarities to my taste, we almost like the same thing. but when it comes to classics stuff i find them rate those higher than what they deserve. So, yeah, not a matter of "status", whatever that stands for, because at the end of the day I think both things correlate. @Zoce_ It's like you're saying "damn, the people who cares about them, rates them too high". But you're forgetting about the large majority of anime watchers who don't care at all. And if the MAL top is not enough for you, every few months we get rankings like this one: https://myanimelist.net/news/53566994 This one, the most recent one shared in MAL, is not about shows but characters (which surprisingly makes everything even more apparent). You literally can find 6 Kemono Friends characters in the top 17 character list commemorating 100 years of anime, as well as the 2 Yuri!! On Ice protagonists in the top 10. If anything this thread is useful for future reference because it encapsulates an example of elitism (or rather, of being a try-hard to a pitiful extent). |
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Vurahn said: Kitsunethyst said: Is this this redundant thread to increase post count? Calling things overrated has become overrated. Thats such an overrated thing to say. Ur mom is overrated oooohhh, burned |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
um, wow, why you gotta be like that? ;-; |
davidgvidal said: Well, it's your opinion that they are overrated. Many new shows like Made in Abyss are overrated as fuck, way more than them If you think Made in Abyss is overrated... I think I finally found the kind of people who'd rate Pokemons and Beyblades 10/10. Vurahn said: Kitsunethyst said: Is this this redundant thread to increase post count? Calling things overrated has become overrated. Thats such an overrated thing to say. Actually, that is the overrated thing to... nvm |
Sarim-kun said: He rated Pokemon 6, so you thought wrong.davidgvidal said: Well, it's your opinion that they are overrated. Many new shows like Made in Abyss are overrated as fuck, way more than them If you think Made in Abyss is overrated... I think I finally found the kind of people who'd rate Pokemons and Beyblades 10/10. However what's wrong with rating Pokemons and Beyblades 10/10? |
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| Uh, nope? If anything, it's just the opposite, most old, amazing classics are nowhere to be found near the top and instead we're getting whatever new mediocre movies and series getting there all the time. Would be good if you, at the very least, brought few examples to your thread and explained why you think they don't deserve the status. Otherwise this is just meaningless. |
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Pullman said: In my experience they are underrated because the people who watch old anime are more prone to using the whole rating scale while most modern anime scores get inflated by the 8-10/10 voters. That's just how it is. Statistically old anime are underrated and the MAL score formula is baised towards shows with more votes (aka modern shows) as well so the whole system is already making it harder for old anime to get a decent rating above 8. Which makes it even more impressive when a show still manages to get there despite all the hurdles that a modern anime doesn't have to overcome. I don't think the score system is biased towards popular anime at all. You could argue that users with few entries tend to rate higher and watch mostly popular shows, but that has yet to be proven. I've seen a lot of users with 100+ shows and a high average, and the other way around. On the other hand, shows that aren't popular benefit from a niche effect, as they'll usually only be watched by people who like the genre and thus are likely to score high, whereas popular shows are watched by almost everyone, including those who are likely to give low ratings because they dislike the genre (haven't you seen a lot of users who express their dislike for isekai shows but will still watch those that become popular?). For example, I'm pretty sure LogH would have a lower rating if it was more popular and watched by users who, for example, like SAO and Fairy Tail. |
| Berserk 1997 vs. Berserk 2016. I rest my case. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Sarim-kun said: davidgvidal said: Well, it's your opinion that they are overrated. Many new shows like Made in Abyss are overrated as fuck, way more than them If you think Made in Abyss is overrated... I think I finally found the kind of people who'd rate Pokemons and Beyblades 10/10. overrated doesn't mean bad. The show is pretty good but is something incomplete being just a promotion for the manga. If you are so salty about other people opinions on your favourite shows, i can predict how would you react if i shit on SAO and Akame ga kill, which are not only overrated, they are truly bad indeed. Sorry, Akame ga Kill is not overrated because nobody remembers it xD |
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Nobidexx said: Pullman said: In my experience they are underrated because the people who watch old anime are more prone to using the whole rating scale while most modern anime scores get inflated by the 8-10/10 voters. That's just how it is. Statistically old anime are underrated and the MAL score formula is baised towards shows with more votes (aka modern shows) as well so the whole system is already making it harder for old anime to get a decent rating above 8. Which makes it even more impressive when a show still manages to get there despite all the hurdles that a modern anime doesn't have to overcome. I don't think the score system is biased towards popular anime at all. You could argue that users with few entries tend to rate higher and watch mostly popular shows, but that has yet to be proven. I've seen a lot of users with 100+ shows and a high average, and the other way around. On the other hand, shows that aren't popular benefit from a niche effect, as they'll usually only be watched by people who like the genre and thus are likely to score high, whereas popular shows are watched by almost everyone, including those who are likely to give low ratings because they dislike the genre (haven't you seen a lot of users who express their dislike for isekai shows but will still watch those that become popular?). For example, I'm pretty sure LogH would have a lower rating if it was more popular and watched by users who, for example, like SAO and Fairy Tail. No I mean the actual formula for how the score is calculated has the amount of people who have seen/rated the show in it. Formula Weighted Rank (WR) = (v / (v + m)) * S + (m / (v + m)) * C S = Average score for the Anime (mean). v = Number of votes for the Anime = (Number of people scoring the Anime). m = Minimum votes/scores required to get a calculated score (currently 50 scores required). C = The mean score across the entire Anime DB. The score gets weighed down for shows with very little viewers. I'm no methematician so I don't know the numbers but the difference between 10k and 100k viewers is probably negligible, but a lot of old shows have only ~50-1000 viewers and in that range it does have some effect. As for whether LOGH would have a lower score, maybe. But score doesn't have to go down with popularity, just look at Brotherhood. But in general you can probably say that neither being too mainstream nor too obscure have a positive effect on mean score. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
NeoLegendX said: Thats just bad animation, that mistake will be corrected, the story is still on par. It goes way beyond that: Berserk 2016 is an example of bad animation, bad art design, bad artwork, bad soundtrack, misused soundtrack, poor directing, atrocious cinematography, bad use of tone and atmosphere (or basically no atmosphere at all), poor handling (bordering on incomprehension) of source material, horrific sound engineering, horrific sound design, and absolutely zero attention paid to the backgrounds and landscapes that the original manga obsesses over. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Pullman said: Nobidexx said: I don't think the score system is biased towards popular anime at all. You could argue that users with few entries tend to rate higher and watch mostly popular shows, but that has yet to be proven. I've seen a lot of users with 100+ shows and a high average, and the other way around. On the other hand, shows that aren't popular benefit from a niche effect, as they'll usually only be watched by people who like the genre and thus are likely to score high, whereas popular shows are watched by almost everyone, including those who are likely to give low ratings because they dislike the genre (haven't you seen a lot of users who express their dislike for isekai shows but will still watch those that become popular?). For example, I'm pretty sure LogH would have a lower rating if it was more popular and watched by users who, for example, like SAO and Fairy Tail. No I mean the actual formula for how the score is calculated has the amount of people who have seen/rated the show in it. Formula Weighted Rank (WR) = (v / (v + m)) * S + (m / (v + m)) * C S = Average score for the Anime (mean). v = Number of votes for the Anime = (Number of people scoring the Anime). m = Minimum votes/scores required to get a calculated score (currently 50 scores required). C = The mean score across the entire Anime DB. The score gets weighed down for shows with very little viewers. I'm no methematician so I don't know the numbers but the difference between 10k and 100k viewers is probably negligible, but a lot of old shows have only ~50-1000 viewers and in that range it does have some effect. Afaik, the mean score for an anime is about 7. So a show with an average score of 8 and 1000 votes would have a final score of 7.95. With 10000 votes, it would be 7.995 and with 100 000 votes 7.999. Basically, the effect is negligible unless you have less than 1000 votes (which would mean being outside of the top 5000-6000 in popularity, which is pretty rare for TV series, even old ones) and there's almost no difference between a show with 10k and 100k. So I wouldn't say it's something that penalizes older shows in any significant way. If a show appeals only to a fairly small fanbase, it'll be able to get a high score easily. Moreover, it actually boosts the score of shows with an average lower than 7. Pullman said: As for whether LOGH would have a lower score, maybe. But score doesn't have to go down with popularity, just look at Brotherhood. But in general you can probably say that neither being too mainstream nor too obscure have a positive effect on mean score. Shows that appeal to a particularly large audience, like FMA, can maintain a high score while being very popular. Having a lot of episodes helps a lot too, since most drops (and the usually low scores that come with them) won't hurt the mean rating due to the 1/5th rule (Fairy tail gets a ~ 0.2 boost thanks to that for example). On the other hand, some popular shows like NGE appeal to a smaller audience and would probably have a higher score if they were less popular (basically any popular show that's very divisive is in that situation). |
davidgvidal said: Sarim-kun said: If you think Made in Abyss is overrated... I think I finally found the kind of people who'd rate Pokemons and Beyblades 10/10. overrated doesn't mean bad. The show is pretty good but is something incomplete being just a promotion for the manga. If you are so salty about other people opinions on your favourite shows, i can predict how would you react if i shit on SAO and Akame ga kill, which are not only overrated, they are truly bad indeed. Sorry, Akame ga Kill is not overrated because nobody remembers it xD I never said Made in Abyss was by far my favorite or anything. What I meant by, it's not "overrated" is that it's as liked as it should be and it's not less/more popular than what it's worth. Oh, and btw: My taste isn't like anyone else's on this site. Not saying it's good/bad, but normally the shows that'd get 1-3/10 from most people would be 9-10/10 for me. Which is also why I couldn't care less about you hating on AgK or SAO... Because people do that all the time and I'm cool with it :x |
Imaishi said: Uh, nope? If anything, it's just the opposite, most old, amazing classics are nowhere to be found near the top and instead we're getting whatever new mediocre movies and series getting there all the time. Would be good if you, at the very least, brought few examples to your thread and explained why you think they don't deserve the status. Otherwise this is just meaningless. This. Really, LOGH is the only one with an actual high rating. |
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| Any specific examples? I only started watching anime in 2014 and I like lots of shows going all the way back to the 90s and even one from the 80s. |
| At this point, anything with a bit of age to em seems to automatically be considered overrrated now. A ton of anime of today is overrated. |
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| Not many. They're classics for a reason. Some have aged horribly though. |
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| It all comes down to preference my dude. |
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| It looks like OP that you rate based off of how overrated something is. Just the theme I get from looking at your list and scores. |
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| I'm not sure how there can be any discussion, you just need to take a look at the scores here on the site you're using to see you're wrong, OP. |
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Blackout0129 said: Berserk 1997 has pretty poor animation even for a series released in 97'. The fight scenes are very lacking too. Sure, it's better than Berserk 2016, but it's massively overrated. Berserk shouldn't be about animation--it should be about proper presentation and atmosphere, and the 1997 series had both in spades. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Blackout0129 said: Zelkiiro said: Berserk shouldn't be about animation--it should be about proper presentation and atmosphere, and the 1997 series had both in spades. In a series where lots of highly detailed action happens the animation has to be good. Specially if the manga is known for good visuals and detail. Also, voice actor for Guts was just the wrong choice. If you think it isn't about the animation, they you can't hate on 2016 anime We've been over all of this already: Zelkiiro said: It goes way beyond that: Berserk 2016 is an example of bad animation, bad art design, bad artwork, bad soundtrack, misused soundtrack, poor directing, atrocious cinematography, bad use of tone and atmosphere (or basically no atmosphere at all), poor handling (bordering on incomprehension) of source material, horrific sound engineering, horrific sound design, and absolutely zero attention paid to the backgrounds and landscapes that the original manga obsesses over. |
This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| Gotta love some classic stuff however 2000s are my favourite. The thing I think is overrated is attack on Titan. |
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| I can agree with this, since most of them are not good. I'm sure there is those one or 2 good ones that I just haven't seen. A lot of people just like classic stuff, even when it's not good. The same goes for music, non anime movies and tv shows, books, etc. I don't agree that they need to have good stories to make up for the old visual look, though, like one or two people said on this thread, I'm certainly not here to deny that newer shows don't have to work as hard in the story department to get a higher score, but a lot of newer shows are also meant to be minimal story cute and comedy anime, while many older anime were shows that should've had good stories, and lacked them. I'll just say this before someone uses themes as an argument. Having complex themes does not instantly make a story good. |
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| You have a point. I still hate when I see some anime youtuber who makes: top 10, 25, 50 opening EVER video and even that gets dominated by hmmm I don't know Cowboy Bebop. But I also haze when I look at MAL toplists and I literally see every single talked about show from every single post 2015 season. Conclusion : make up yoir mind and rate an anime based on your opinion and not based on : wow it's hyped or wow it's a classic bro' |
| I disagree. Aside from Cowboy Bebop, LOTGH and a few Ghibli movies none of the old classics have particularly high ratings. Even some of the more iconic ones such as Ashita no Joe, Berserk, Ghost in the Shell, Escaflowne, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Ninja Scroll, Perfect Blue, Rose of Versaille, Utena are all no higher than an 8.4, with only Berserk cracking the top 150. |
| It's honestly the exact opposite here from my experience lol. I'm not even one of those guys who drivels garbage like "I REMEMBER THE GLORY DAYS OF ANIME, HOW I WISH THEY WERE STILL HERE", but this site seems to not like a lot of older anime or things branded classics for some reason. |
Sarim-kun said: davidgvidal said: overrated doesn't mean bad. The show is pretty good but is something incomplete being just a promotion for the manga. If you are so salty about other people opinions on your favourite shows, i can predict how would you react if i shit on SAO and Akame ga kill, which are not only overrated, they are truly bad indeed. Sorry, Akame ga Kill is not overrated because nobody remembers it xD I never said Made in Abyss was by far my favorite or anything. What I meant by, it's not "overrated" is that it's as liked as it should be and it's not less/more popular than what it's worth. Oh, and btw: My taste isn't like anyone else's on this site. Not saying it's good/bad, but normally the shows that'd get 1-3/10 from most people would be 9-10/10 for me. Which is also why I couldn't care less about you hating on AgK or SAO... Because people do that all the time and I'm cool with it :x It is okay for Made in Abyss to be popular. Popularity itself doesn't determine if something is overrated imo because a show that that at least give a shit about it can be very popular surrounded by a pile of trash that it was. But i think is more liked than it should be because it's a mere introduction. When i talk about other people's taste i'm usually joking because i gave up long ago xD but everytime someone mention Beyblade a cat dies. Same for pokemon passed first season |
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| Some old stuff are good, unrelated to the fact they are old. I watched Trigun and Rose of Versailles, for example, at the time I watched other animes. Yes, I did notice the change in style (at least in Rose of Versailles), but I liked them for whatever they are. And there were also some old animes I may enjoy as a kid, but I don't think I will enjoy them today, such as Dragon Ball Z (Don't kill me, I beg you) and Sailor Moon (Again, don't kill me). |
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| You need a hobby OP, you're just recycling posts you have already made. Maybe you are more calculated and sadistic then your writing puts out. Maybe you are trying to divide the anime community. Everyone we must shame him. #HeWillNotDivideUs |
| Old anime are overrated? Then why are generic over-milked franchises like Fate and the likes rated so highly? I swear, anything that has ''FEELS'' or is edgy will be rated as one of the best anime of all time in this day and age, people's perception of what's good changes so quickly that it's like most anime watchers nowadays don't have an opinion of their own. Both retro and modern have their good and bad anime, that's the reality. Modern isn't better and neither is retro. |
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| I really doubt people will be talking about Onodera and Chitoge in 20 years, but people will probably always talk about Ranma, and there's a very good reason for it. I think that good reason is exactly why it can't be overrated oh wait this is a Zoce_ thread, why am I even bothering to reply |
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AnimeAdamOP said: It's almost like people have different tastes, and even if the people you're comparing have similar tastes, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll rate everything the same as you. "but when it comes to stuff that are better, they dont rate it as much the classics." It's subjective what's better. THIS! THIS IS IT! This is all subjective so this is why I DESPISE when people make these topics. There should be a ban on these posts because they seem to get made every other day and go nowhere. |
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| What the shit? If anything, they're underrated cause the common thought-process about old classics are "Welp, they look old, not as good as Your Name" |
Johan said: I have a simple solution; Don't even bother with prehistoric anime. I've COMPLETED 1,630 things. According to MALGRAPH; 77% of all anime I've ever seen is from this decade (2010-) 96% of all anime I've ever seen is from this century. (2000-) Of that 4% of "prehistoric" anime I've watched most of it is short films and such from the pre World War II era. You think prehistoric anime can ever be as good as Steins;Gate, Death Note, Code Geass, Madoka Magika, Penguindrum, Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso, etc? L O L OP is calling LoGH overrated because it FUCKING is. LOL. Oh god, this dumbass again, acting like God's gift to the community and spreads nothing but fallacy and ignorance. One would think watching 1630 anime would wise your ass up about tastes and difference of opinion, but in your case you've only gotten more delusional. |
Magnif-SteinerJan 6, 2018 4:59 AM
Zoce_ said: ZionPulse said: fineI dunno it's hard to tell without giving examples... Oh wait! logh macross trigun eva kenshin. if i remember more i will post it in an edit Aw, but I genuinely thought Trigun was amazing. Cowboy Bebop was eh. It was a show. I'm not feeling Neon Genesis Evangelion either but I'm only on episode 5. I think you can't generalize all classics cause they're just shows like anything else and obviously everyone has unique taste. I agree just cause a show is old, that doesnt mean it's necessarily good, but I also agree just cause a show's old it's not necessarily bad. |
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_Poochyena_ said: overrated doesnt mean bad. so these show might be bad or good. it doesnt matter. same with term underratedAw, but I genuinely thought Trigun was amazing. Cowboy Bebop was eh. It was a show. I'm not feeling Neon Genesis Evangelion either but I'm only on episode 5. I think you can't generalize all classics cause they're just shows like anything else and obviously everyone has unique taste. I agree just cause a show is old, that doesnt mean it's necessarily good, but I also agree just cause a show's old it's not necessarily bad. |
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