RetroBite said: the feels OP I find it overall more pleasing to the eye. I dislike how nowadays it is all digital or nothing.  I just watche asobi asobase! while it was a fun show, its just .... looks like it was made with flash |
| Yep. Cel animation is warmer and has more depth. Digital has a flat, washed out feeling. That is the difference. I will say though, that a blend of the two would be nice. Less time consuming then just cel, but it would be more unique and warm than digital. 3d/cgi is the worst though. Video game cutscenes look better. And have a bigger budget. That's why I don't understand cgi anime, it's hideous. |
Ericonator said: By definition, everything is retro since by the time you realize something has happened it's already in the past.  |
| Most definitely. Cel animation has a naturalness that's so alluring, even with it's limitations. But I can't ignore the practical advantages of digital, much of which looks surprisingly good. It's old school art that I really miss. A lot of today's character designs are just awful. |
| Me! I do! The aesthetic always seemed softer and less harsh compared to modern anime. |
KuroudoAkabane said: the feels OP I just watche asobi asobase! while it was a fun show, its just .... looks like it was made with flash I don't know if I should be more outraged by you trying to generalize modern anime visuals through fucking Asobi Asobase, one of the most visually distinct shows recently aired, or by you dismissing its visual work with "looks like it was made with flash". A series that plays a lot with lights and shading, shifting artstyles and a characteristically subdued color palette. What a phrase. I just can't. |
| Nope. Digital way is definitely better. Digital > Cel animation |
| It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person. |
| I do I have a real love for hand drawn animation, and these days I'm just more likely to watch something cel shaded, just cause I love the art style. however I will say I do like the modern style as well a lot of the time, and I prefer it to the early 2000s anime style. |
Cabron said: Most definitely, mostly because of the backgrounds but specially because of the special effects. The equipment and techniques they had to use to achieve them. Like using a lightbox underneath the animation stand to give it that real glow/light effect, now it's done by using programs on the computer. What really sucks is that none of it has been written down. THISSSS^ i love both old school and digital and they both look great but i reaalllllyyyy miss how 90s cel animation did light and glowing effects like i could look at that shit for hours i LOVE it the current stuff just aint the same :')    |
| modern anime looks better, no from me. |
| Cel looks better by default. It's just a matter of whether it's done right or wrong (which also applies to digital...way more). I'll always appreciate cel more no matter how much digital animation evolves. imo stuff like Evangelion, Gunbuster, or Cowboy Bebop looks way better than half of the stuff we get today. Cel just felt more...alive. |
ShadowMonkeyNov 10, 2018 7:31 AM
| In gritty action shows, yes. Cel animation provided the dirty look that series like Berserk needed to succeed. Otherwise, I can take it or leave it. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
Yes I prefer cel animation in terms of sakuga and heavy shading: But I think most modern anime look better overall. |
Katsuo_Nov 10, 2018 9:32 AM
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| Cel animation turns me the fuck on!! |
| Both HD digital anime (not the early-mid 2000s digital, which looks like shit) and cel anime look pretty good to me, but cels have their own charm from knowing that somebody had to match all this up by hand, ink and paint it by hand, etc. without help from a PC. Or seeing how they achieved effects without computer assistance. Remember light boxes? Did anybody here use light boxes in art class? It's not as if digital animation has even resolved the low budget problem of anime, ie. the number of cels, paints, brushes, etc.a studio can buy. In fact, the constant use of janky CG in shows like Cells at Work makes it look worse and nobody making the anime seems to care or notice. |
| There are many reasons to prefer Cel animation over the new digital stuff, but what doesn't get talked about much is the negative aspects. Sometimes with some of the longer running shows, when drawn by hand, over time you might see small changes in character designs. The artist might slowly fade out certain details that were time consuming/difficult to draw, especially in fast-paced motion scenes. Another aspect is drawing fewer frames to save time/costs, giving us variable frame rates or frame duplication, often resulting in choppy looking motion. Pullman said: Yeah I love cel animation, especially when it's remastered in HD. But idk about 'missing' it since I watch cel animated anime all the time. There's a lot of them out there. So watching cel animation is still a thing of the present for me, not the past. This. There's so many of the Cel animation shows out there I/many of us haven't seen yet, so it's not like it's gone for good, never to be seen again. |
 You're never too old to watch anime. If I ever stop watching anime, check my pulse I'm likely dead. I wake up with coffee & anime, I go to sleep with coffee & anime. Sorry if my sarcasm is bad, it's not my first language. |
rsc-pl said: First of all, I don't mind digital coloring (it's it's not lazy gradient filling) and capturing as long as it's not 3DCG. 3DCG = automatically trash, no matter how it's done. I’ll have to disagree on that one: https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42390 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/40496 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42332 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42391 CG can look very good if done well. The anime industry just needs to put in the time and effort to make it look good.(and considering how much it’s struggling I don’t think we’ll see many any time soon) |
| |
| I think both old animation and new one can have their charm. It always depends on how much time, effort and love went into the product and not really on the means that were available at the time. We have amazing looking "older" anime like Cowboy Bebop, but also a lot of garbage from that time with a severe lack of detail and animation that is often off-model. Nowadays we also have some astounding stuff that uses CGI extremely well, but also shitty 3D graphics like from an old videogame or very low effort stuff that looks decent on a screenshot, but has a severe lack of animation. So overall I don't have a preference. And remember the shit Megalo Box got for attempting to look old-school? I think most people hate the older style. Which I don't really understand personally, but it is what it is. |
jal90 said: OH I didnt know you worked for triggerKuroudoAkabane said: the feels OP I just watche asobi asobase! while it was a fun show, its just .... looks like it was made with flash I don't know if I should be more outraged by you trying to generalize modern anime visuals through fucking Asobi Asobase, one of the most visually distinct shows recently aired, or by you dismissing its visual work with "looks like it was made with flash". A series that plays a lot with lights and shading, shifting artstyles and a characteristically subdued color palette. What a phrase. I just can't. |
KuroudoAkabane said: jal90 said: OH I didnt know you worked for triggerI don't know if I should be more outraged by you trying to generalize modern anime visuals through fucking Asobi Asobase, one of the most visually distinct shows recently aired, or by you dismissing its visual work with "looks like it was made with flash". A series that plays a lot with lights and shading, shifting artstyles and a characteristically subdued color palette. What a phrase. I just can't. Oh, I wanted to sound more shocked than triggered. It's fine. |
| I don't miss the technical process. What I miss is the attention to detail that old artist could afford. Not literary how many details the picture can have but which of those are controlled by the author and have some meaning. Like for example an extra animation when somebody slams the door and it opens again. Or maybe some unimportant unrelated background character reacting to the main events ect. Nowadays many productions are rushed or have low budget so the new technologies are not used to their full potential. In result the final products look crappy. ProfessionalNEET's generalization is somehow offending...I am 45 and I am still fascinated by some old stuff but in the same time I am content with the things that can be achieved by new technologies. Sadly those achievements come in rare occasions. |
KuroudoAkabane said: I just watche asobi asobase! while it was a fun show, its just .... looks like it was made with flash You haven't watched Hanoka, have you? |
-Lightsbane- said: no BUUTTTKuroudoAkabane said: I just watche asobi asobase! while it was a fun show, its just .... looks like it was made with flash You haven't watched Hanoka, have you? read looked at it, most cgi/flash is cheaply made copypaste crap hanoka seems specifically made with flash and the scrncaps show actual effrt behind it |
| While I personally love cel animation, It's hard to ague that current animation isn't superior.. |
╮ (. ❛ ᴗ ❛.) ╭ |
| It depends on the intended style as well as the budget and time restraints. Sometimes digital is better sometimes cel animation is better. I can't see how anyone would think otherwise. |
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rsc-pl said: Katsuo_ said: I’ll have to disagree on that one: https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42390 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/40496 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42332 https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/42391 CG can look very good if done well. The anime industry just needs to put in the time and effort to make it look good.(and considering how much it’s struggling I don’t think we’ll see many any time soon) Houseki no Kuni looks like a garbage. The fact that it looks better than other 3D anime, doesn't change anything. It's still ugly, plastic and wooden. Facial expressions are horrible (please don't tell me it's because they are stones, it looks exactly like any other 3DCG anime). Sorry but if HnK is used as an example of good 3DCG animation, then it only proves how bad, soulless and unappealing 3DCG actually is. I couldn't even finish the 1st episode. I was too scared of getting eye cancer. I wouldn't mind graphics like this in video game, but as TV series, it's unwatchable. It's washed out of all anime charm and creativity. If anime will ever move into full 3DCG, I'll stop watching anything new. Ps. https://youtu.be/h-hs9QQXjSo This thing doesn't look THAT bad. At least in terms of animation alone (shadingless simplified art looks terrible and cheap). This is full 3DCG. But if you want to make something that looks like this, you need to put 3 or 4 times more effort than doing it in traditional way and it's still looks worse, so it's pointless. Disclaimer. I know you were mentioning not wanting just fully CGI shows, but I feel most people just don't seem to understand. So I ranted at you. I apologize. Okay I haven't actually seen HnK yet, and I actually love Gravity Rush. One of my favorite games and I even loved the short, but if I compare just one of those Sakuga scenes that guy linked and compare it to the Gravity Rush short it is a no contest that HnK has much more complex and well done CGI. Your post makes it seem like you don't understand how much CGI is used and needed for Anime. My word Mob Psycho has a ton of CGI and it is one of the best animated shows in quite some time. Don't even get me started in how your three favorite anime utilize CGI in extremely professional ways where you probably don't even notice the usage. Or how Kimi no Na wa uses so much CGI and it would be literally impossible to get the movie to look the way it did without CGI. |
 |
| I do miss the style and aesthetic of that work and period, how precise the work went into making stuff like the backgrounds is what really has been shafted over the past 10 years. But I do admit those cel animated series look better when remastered since post editing on them was near impossible back in the day. |
 |
| it's only appealing because it's got a retro vibe -- shows like Megalo Box that try to replicate the style don't capture me as much... |
| I think both have their charms. I really like art style of old anime that I occasionally watch, it has it's own charisma to it. However it's true that overall animation has improved a lot with use of the digital technologies, and that they allow for things that wouldn't be possible with Cel. Especially action/magic and the like scenes look a lot better. Character designs also have differences that, while on one hand makes them loose something compared to Cel, also makes them gain something. And I think digital surely wins in backgrounds. And of course digital does make animation cheaper and faster to make, therefore there is more shows that can come out, and that's never a bad thing. Overall though, I like them both about the same, but technology has moved on and it has to be accepted. Old anime are quite enough, if one want to enjoy some Cel for a change. Though getting some new anime in that style might be refreshing, I think that current economy of the industry doesn't allow for it much anymore. |
changelog said: Why you lying? So you can't see the difference in animation between stuff like Bunny Girl Senpai, Twin Star Exorcists, and Shinsekai Yori to Evangelion, Maison Ikkoku, and Macross? You like older anime, so obviously you do.I can't even see the difference lmao. I like older anime so if cel animation is old, then I like cel animation. |
PyroNov 11, 2018 2:05 PM
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changelog said: Pyro said: Why you lying? So you can't see the difference in animation between stuff like Bunny Girl Senpai, Twin Star Exorcists, and Shinsekai Yori to Evangelion, Maison Ikkoku, and Macross? You like older anime, so obviously you do. No... I really don't. The only thing I do notice is the brighter colours and more fluid animation of modern anime. But in the end, animation is just animation to me. Your accusation is pretty rude and uncalled for. I'm not trying to provoke anything. Just making conversation because I'm curious. Well, I guess that's that. |
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QPR said: Lmao no one is being an "anime hipster".Oh god, anime hipsters. Arguing that cel is better than digital is like arguing records are better than CDs, even using the same type of words. I much prefer the digital style that has got even better since they used photos as backgrounds. In ten years time, we will have people saying the preferred 2d over 3d even if they perfect 3d cgi. |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
QPR said: Oh god, anime hipsters. Arguing that cel is better than digital is like arguing records are better than CDs, even using the same type of words. I much prefer the digital style that has got even better since they used photos as backgrounds. In ten years time, we will have people saying the preferred 2d over 3d even if they perfect 3d cgi. Oh my, I finally found one of the elitist boogeymen everyone’s been telling me about on AD since 2013. It’s just like they said; it pretends its opinion is factual and substitutes a condescending attitude for substantial arguments. Wow. I’m so honored to get to see one in the wild. It’s certainly a rare creature around here. |
As much as I like how digital animation has improved for the last few years, but there's something I missed about cel animation that you can't find on today's anime, the aesthetics and the color palattes, & color saturation. I mean look at these:     Even Inuyasha looks noticable when going from cel to digital, case in example, here's cel animated:   And here's Inuyasha in digital animation:   I mean don't get me wrong, he still look good in digital. But there's something about cel animation that still has a distinctive charm, and aesthetics that you don't see anymore in today's animation. |
Hard to really miss something unless it's been taken away from you. I own a lot of Anime on Laserdiscs to Bluray. So it's not like it's anything to really miss for me. Do I wish Cel Animation was still being produced like it was in the 80s and 90s? Of course I do. CGI/CG is extremely soulless even if it can look great at times. Animation use to be an artistic skill that very few were able to do on a master level. With CGI/CG all it takes is simply being able to have minimal artist talent and a computer program can do the rest rendering most of the hard work of animation. |
 |
I really miss it immensely, some of the anime made in cel animation are still iconic to this day like Golden Boy.          |
| I got to give it to some of these animetubers on Youtube for bringing awareness of the importance and beauty of cel animation in anime in the 90's, and 80's: I also got to give to several users for making lo-fi AMV using 90's anime aesthetics (for those of you that don't know what lo-fi is. I didn't know what that was until I had to look it up), like these: Not only that, I'm also happy to see Retrocrush are also putting these up: I hope the people that watched the 2022 Urusei Yatsura adaptation are able to stumble upon the 1981 version like the way I linked the YT shorts above. I mean if it takes video clip like these: To get younger anime fans to get curious about it. I mean why not? I remember that finding out that Gen Z are getting deep in retro gaming, along with other retro stuff and retro technology: I hope the love of retro gaming, and retro-ism can extend to retro anime and including newfound appreciation for cel animation too. It could lead to these old school/retro anime finding new life amongst younger fans: |
| Well, I don't see anything wrong with cel animation. I don't think digital animation is necessarily better than cel animation. Of course, nobody produces cel animation anymore. |
| I have approximately 1 terabyte of anime on my computer. |
| Yes, I dont know why they stopped doing stuff like this, oh wait, anime is a business and they want you to watch some new animation hype pixelation 3.0 screen. |
| I am a Completionist. All Anime/Manga will be watched/read. All FILLERS will be enjoyed :) Join my discord - https://discord.gg/CwhqqfGmHw :) |
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