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Z4k said: RyanSaotome said: I know a lot of people are saying it was great animation or whatever, but to me if the animation is distracting and makes me pay more attention to it then the story and whats going on then they've failed as animators. In what should have been a great episode, I was more focused on the animation and how different it looked then what was actually going on. Animation is something you shouldn't be thinking about, it just adds to the story. Was the animation good in a vacuum? Yeah. But this kinda artsy animation works better in an anime short to show at a festival then randomly changing the complete artstyle to accommodate it in the middle of an established TV series. This is one of the most retarded things I've read in this thread. I honestly can't believe the bullshit you people write to justify your reasoning that the episode was badly animated. You have industry veterans who have nothing to do with Fate, come and praise the episode because of the outstanding animation. You think you know more than them? You just prove my point, they're not people watching the show and care nothing about it. They only care about the animation. I genuinely cared about the show and got this artsy animation episode that ruined my immersion. |
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| Who hired Michael Bay for most of this ep? Wasn't a big fan of this Trigger-like style of animation appearing all of a sudden a Fate Series but even with the standard, I still would've prefered Achilles vs Chiron fight compared to Sieg vs Karna, altho that last bit with the shield was cool. Now about Achilles...dude's been a blast whenever he's been on screen. Am I the only one that would like to see a spin-off romance with him & Atalanta? |
ManlyTearDec 12, 2017 10:10 AM
| Hands down the best fight in the show so far. Inugirlz said: Moekou said: Speaking of which, there's more lore-related stuff regarding that I found from the wiki. Normally, it would be impossible for another unrelated servant to just borrow and use a Noble Phantasm's full ability like that. However, Achilles was known for giving away relics in his legend, while Astolfo is known for constantly receiving them in his legend (that's why he has so many different Noble Phantasms, he was constantly collecting magic relics along his adventures) These properties of the two heroes are what allowed Achilles to transfer his Noble Phantasm to Astolfo. You know that’s another thing that’s bothers me about the Fate series. There’s actually so many rules and status boosts/penalties related to the grail war and servant classes, yet we’re never told them. Like in Fate/Stay Night everyone keeps saying how the Saber class is the best and whatever but never precisely why. I had to look it up on the wikia and basically Saber is an all rounder while Casters basically have the short end of the stick because literally every other class has magic resistance. Like why wouldn’t this be explained in full! It’s such an interesting concept. Instead we get Shirou’s “I want to save everyone” BS and Saber bath scenes. In any case that explanation for Astofolo and Achilles would be what I call a legitimate excuse but I’m also calling BS on how convenient it’s used. You’re telling me Chiron knew that Astofolo had that talent when he asked Achilles for that favour? He never even specified that it had to be Astofolo, he just said to help someone on his team. And don’t get me started on the fact that these two servants were conveniently summoned in this grail war so that something like this could come to pass. Fate has an awesome concept but the delivery is shit. Maybe the LNs are really just so much better? EDIT: I mean VNs. Are there even LNs? This is all poor adaptation. If you take Fate/Zero, for instance, everything about the characters is explained in the LN, there is a lot lacking in the anime. In Fate/Stay Night, what isn't given straight out in the story can be read in the menu, and then in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia you get the final pieces for both the Servants and Masters, it's its selling point. I haven't read Fate/Apocrypha yet because it's not fully translated, but by the comments here you can see how they removed so much content in the adaptation. |
Fenryr19Dec 12, 2017 3:00 PM
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| Some of the comments were funny to read through concerning the animation |
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| I've never seen such a divide in opinion over an episode's animation. There's both people saying this was low budget and others saying this episode was where all the money went to. People are comparing it to Naruto vs Pain, Kill la Kill, and Mob Psycho 100 like they've rarely seen this before. Personally, I thought the animation and style this episode were fantastic. I found this anime to be boring to look at most of the time and then this episode comes along and kicks my ass. Give me more of this shit, please. |
JojobroDec 12, 2017 7:25 PM
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| This episode was overwhelmingly chaotic but at the same time epic! 5/5. |
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| So many things wrong in this episode! 5 characters, 4 animation studios, 3 side stories, 2 major battles, and 1 giant pile of garbage. There were just too many things happened in such a short amount of time. First of, the animation style were changing between key frames! It was so distracting that it took me of my immersion of watching this episode. If they wanted to make a "special" animation for the fight scenes, they should have used one style and sticked with it. Characters were flip flopping on which color they represent.. in mere seconds! That what happens when you write for 20+ characters. Astolfo with the Trap Card of the year! "Anyone can use my NP if you know its true name" how fucking convenient is that huh? I liked it better when servants use their wits, prediction, and knowledge to win battles and not this all out over the top nonsense. Apocrypha is one hot pile of steaming, stinking garbage. |
NoobHunterDDec 12, 2017 9:55 PM
| My Guitar Covers: Playlist I CAN ALWAYS SHOW MY EVERYTHING TO YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUU |
| What the hell happened to the art? I hardly recognise the characters fighting lol. Like when Achilles looked down at Atalanta his jaw line increased massively. I’m so confused. |
| lmao, it's like naruto vs pain animation all over again but I still impressed |
| First, I have to appreciate the development of animation and the fight scenes are incredible, still too short though... Second, I, again, appreciate that they give us some RiderxAcher stuff, Gracias... Finally........ WTF!!! Lancer got killed by Sieg and his dude servant like WHAT!?!!? He should have died since the first strike from Lancer and guess what? He survived again! If Sieg was real in the real world, he would be the toughest luck dude in this whole world. Like survived for millions times! like WHAT!?!?!?! I was thinking about dropping the anime, yeah after spent months watching this, but when I heard Caster got something in his sleeve that could kill the Ruler. I'm in, dude. Go Go GO! Yeah I definitely sure that it will be her time next ep.... Still RIP Lancer, Rider and Acher. You all will always in my memory... |
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| I couldn't feel sympathy for the Servants that have died because the shitty animation scenes in this episode ruined my enjoyment. :/ |
NoobHunterD said: Astolfo with the Trap Card of the year! "Anyone can use my NP if you know its true name" how fucking convenient is that huh? Moekou said: Inugirlz said: For example yes we know Achilles gave his NP to Rider and that’s how Sieg won. But it’s absolutely ridiculous that the injured Rider was able to make it just in the nick of time to save Sieg from a situation where he so obviously should have perished. Speaking of which, there's more lore-related stuff regarding that I found from the wiki. Normally, it would be impossible for another unrelated servant to just borrow and use a Noble Phantasm's full ability like that. However, Achilles was known for giving away relics in his legend, while Astolfo is known for constantly receiving them in his legend (that's why he has so many different Noble Phantasms, he was constantly collecting magic relics along his adventures) These properties of the two heroes are what allowed Achilles to transfer his Noble Phantasm to Astolfo. Fate's adaptations have always omitted how skills, servants and classes work. "Astolfo has created many legends as he was an adventurer who flew to all over the world and even reached the Moon in the end. Through his journeys, he had won numerous Mystic Codes such as his flute, his grimoire, and his shining golden lance." "Specialised Mystic Code (限定礼装, Gentei Reisou?) is the other type that have a predetermined usage. They are activated with the magus's magical energy and can perform a given mystery as long as it is supplied with energy. It becomes a spell in itself; many of the Noble Phantasms of Servants are usually of this type" "Normally limited to the exclusive usage of their owners due to being tied directly into their legends, the Noble Phantasms of heroes being wielded by other heroes will not normally be able to be wielded properly by them or activated with their True Names, whether stolen or freely borrowed. There are specific Noble Phantasms like Knight of Owner and Sword Hunt that can temporarily transfer the ownership of armament Noble Phantasms, allowing Lancelot to wield them with great skill and Toyotomi Hideyoshi to handle them with less skill than the original wielder but also be able to unleash their True Names under certain conditions. Under certain exceptions, it may be possible for a Heroic Spirit to freely grant usage of the Noble Phantasm, requiring the conditions of “being where he is making a contract, instead of being in opposition, of his own volition" and "the Noble Phantasm not requiring considerable skill and power to invoke its True Name.” Even with such conditions fulfilled, Rider of Black borrowing Akhilleus Kosmos from Rider of Red also required the respective episodes in their legends of “the giver (Achilles) where he loans his Noble Phantasms” and "the receiver (Astolfo) where he borrows a Noble " |
NayoutDec 13, 2017 5:43 AM
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| The animation was amazing I will give them that even tough as many said that it was hard to distinguish all characters in this fight. But Karna vs Siegfried WAS GLOURIOUS!!! I'm a big sucker for when Karna is on screen, and his assortment of skills and abilities, not to mention Vasavi Shakti is mind boggling. And if Astoldo wouldn't have jumped in Karna would have won! But what the hell, he went out with a bang and he went out happy and with honor. Also did they make Atalante this annoying and unlikable on purpose or is there still someone who like her. Achilles did an amazing job and still remains the 3rd best servant after Mordred and Karna. I hope that Jeanne to lose against Caster for how this series make her unlikable. I still like her but not in this series. This series continues to be the worst Fate series after the Studio DEEN Fate works but this episode was one of the best in the Fate-franchise. |
| Lol if you want to lose your brain cells, this thread got you covered. This episode was sakuga fest. What an amazingly animated episode. This show offered a lot of sakuga already, but this was turned to 11. I really liked the show so far and the most important fight scenes didn't disappoint. No, my immersion wasn't broken like with some people here, it was stunning and very appropriate to the character's power levels. People here who didn't like the animation or something, should really stop trying to dismiss the positive things other people are saying or brush it off as them only caring about animation. Like this clown here: RyanSaotome said: You just prove my point, they're not people watching the show and care nothing about it. They only care about the animation. I genuinely cared about the show and got this artsy animation episode that ruined my immersion. It's insulting to suggest that because your immersion was broken or that mine wasn't it means YOU cared about the show more. Aren't we special. People put their soul into this episode. It's not "artsy" it's simply the style, it is the art and webgen animation style fits this show well, almost every fight scene had webgen animation style and animators working on them. in what other series do you like her in? |
She's a major character in Chapter 1 of Fate/Grand Order and later events, as well as alternate versions of her. Funny enough, the actual Siegfried shows up there as well in her chapter. |
| Animation was good, but the art was a downgrade. From Karna's Vasavi Shakti scene all the way till the end it was a clusterfuck of a bunch of colors put together, you can barely see anything, so no, definitely nowhere near Ufotable tier. That being said, overall the episode was solid, but both the praise and the haters are going way too far on either side. On another note, Black team (Sieg, Astolfo, Jeanne) have such a tremendous plot armor that is unreal. Like yeah, we know that they're gonna be the winners or the last one standing, is obvious, but was it really necessary for entire servants from the other team to concede their NP and start attacking their own faction members? It feels like the author wrote himself into a corner ("oh shit, I put 2 top tier servants in one team and killed the other 2 from Black Team, what the hell do I do now?" and that's why the whole thing is comming crashing down like this. Is a shame really, the servants themselves are really good and entertaining to watch. |
GoldenSaltPillarDec 13, 2017 9:23 AM
Moekou said: She's a major character in Chapter 1 of Fate/Grand Order and later events, as well as alternate versions of her. Funny enough, the actual Siegfried shows up there as well in her chapter. As someone who has played first 3 chapters in FGO (NA), the writing isn't good so far. And it's very obviously a waifu simulator (on average male servants have 1 star rank lower). Ofcourse she will be appealing waifu in a game that is designed for you to throw money at waifus. |
Wasshio said: Hmm, that's pretty interesting honestly. I might need to go and check that out, since I'm pretty curious about it o.o O damn I actually found it @Wasshio https://pastebin.com/JU2Apbri |
SH4kun said: it was a clusterfuck of a bunch of colors put together, you can barely see anything... Most people seem to have no issues "seeing" everything, and there was no clusterfuck of anything - everything had purpose and intent from animators and it worked splendidly to demonstrate servant abilities. Yeah you are going way too far, by just dismissing and reducing the amazing sequences as just "clusterfuck of colors" when it puts sakuga community and professionals in the industry in awe. Animation was good, but the art was a downgrade. that makes no sense. It feels like the author wrote himself into a corner it was foreshadowed and obviously planned from very beginning. Servants with such fitting history and abilities to enable what happened couldn't have been a coincidence. Achiles shield is the only thing in the whole story that could possibly stand up to Vasavi Shakti. |
Frozenkex said: As someone who has played first 3 chapters in FGO (NA), the writing isn't good so far. And it's very obviously a waifu simulator (on average male servants have 1 star rank lower). Ofcourse she will be appealing waifu in a game that is designed for you to throw money at waifus. I can't read Japanese so I can't verify, but from what I hear, a lot more effort got put into the writing later on in the game. In the initial chapters this was just a oursourced spinoff written by other authors, and the game launched in a very dire state in danger of being canceled, it was down more often than it was up. However later a new board of directors made drastic changes to improve the game, it became more profitable as a result, and became more of a primary focus for the Fate franchise, so more effort got put into the plot and Nasu himself wrote some of the later chapters. Also while waifus are always the biggest focus, the game eventually amassed a huge fujoshi fanbase as well once characters like Karna, Arjuna, and Edmond Dantès got added, so expect plenty of pretty boys as well, there's also a White Day event filled with CE of guys in suggestive poses. |
MoekouDec 13, 2017 11:24 AM
| I LOVE how a lot of people that say the animation is good try to defend it with "oh anon doesn't know what is good animation" like I can name 5 people who did that and I srsly laugh how obvious it is that they too DOESN'T know what a good animation is and just try to sound like a sage when they are just people watching chinese cartoons and posting about it on some internet forum. Anyways, I don't really know anything about animation, but for me it was insanely good, I loved that, and I still can't believe this was >A-1's< doing. My main problem with this fight is Sieg, just that, if it was just Siegfried and Karna I would be able to love it 100%, but Sieg just makes me want to puke, like, WHY and WHEN did he started to like Ruler when some time ago he was like "oh ruler are u okay you look red uhhh" Achilles and Atalanta needed a better writer, but Higa was quite nice at showing how Karna is, THIS, my friends, is what a REAL heroic spirit should be. Fuck you, Arturia. 5/5, I really hope they keep some budget to make justice to THE best scene of Apomemes. Please, A-1, don't disappoint me. |
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| i guess the animation wasn’t for everyone. i was definitely a fan though. when i first noticed the difference in character modeling with ruler v atalanta my initial thought was something along the lines of “wow, did the art style change bc i’m really digging this.” overall i prefered the art in these fights to the original style. the simplicity in shading seemed much more appropriate. and sieg and karna’s fight was intense. even though plotwise i was confused by the logic of endless np spam (also did sieg use three command seals? or was that last order not official bc if he did then our boy is now racing into the final battle with zero command seals?), the animation was still something else and even if it was incredibly different from f/a’s style it was by far the best animation i’ve seen from this series. and longest lasting too, considering how short previous fights would be. though that art style on the close up of karna (mob-esque) wasn’t my cup of tea and seemed too irreconcilable with what we know, this is still the most impressed i’ve been with this series to date. |
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Frozenkex said: Most people seem to have no issues "seeing" everything, and there was no clusterfuck of anything - everything had purpose and intent from animators and it worked splendidly to demonstrate servant abilities. Yeah you are going way too far, by just dismissing and reducing the amazing sequences as just "clusterfuck of colors" when it puts sakuga community and professionals in the industry in awe. I don't care what other people think about it, is not going to change my opinión in the slightest. I would rather take clean, "well" drawn shots like this than a badly mashed up image with fluid animation that keeps going for several seconds. Hence the "animation was good but art was a downgrade" sentence. it was foreshadowed and obviously planned from very beginning. Servants with such fitting history and abilities to enable what happened couldn't have been a coincidence. Achiles shield is the only thing in the whole story that could possibly stand up to Vasavi Shakti. Guessing from the rest of the quality of the show in terms of writing, I doubt it. Even if that was the case, how both NP ended up colliding with each other was pretty poorly brought up. It feels like the author is trying to save his main characters from the brick of ruin more than the whole story fluently and coherently making sense. |
GoldenSaltPillarDec 13, 2017 12:52 PM
Ryouri said: I LOVE how a lot of people that say the animation is good try to defend it with "oh anon doesn't know what is good animation I don't see the issue? It's true though and I don't see anything in what you say that argues otherwise, and what do you base your conclusion that those who say this don't know what good animation is? "I srsly laugh how obvious" isn't an argument. There is a sakuga community that study animation and work of various animators in the industry. Many people can tell which animator did what just from looking at the style of animation. People who say this animation is good, say OPM animation is good, or animation in Bones shows. This is top notch webgen animation from talented animators most people can just see it, sakuga community knows it, and animators know it. So why people are still trying to do mental gymnastics to dismiss all of that, to deny this truth? Some people are just doubling down on denial and they hate that someone is praising something they dislike. |
Frozenkex said: Ryouri said: I LOVE how a lot of people that say the animation is good try to defend it with "oh anon doesn't know what is good animation I don't see the issue? It's true though and I don't see anything in what you say that argues otherwise, and what do you base your conclusion that those who say this don't know what good animation is? "I srsly laugh how obvious" isn't an argument. There is a sakuga community that study animation and work of various animators in the industry. Many people can tell which animator did what just from looking at the style of animation. People who say this animation is good, say OPM animation is good, or animation in Bones shows. This is top notch webgen animation from talented animators most people can just see it, sakuga community knows it, and animators know it. So why people are still trying to do mental gymnastics to dismiss all of that, to deny this truth? Some people are just doubling down on denial and they hate that someone is praising something they dislike. Except this episode actually looks like dogshit unlike one punch man? I've seen both, I'm not an animator but I'm also not retarded and I can SEE THE ANIMATION IN FRONT OF ME. I don't care what techniques are used, how hard it was to do, or anything on the technical side of things. The end result was god awful. People keep posting the same few cool looking parts, while the rest looked exactly the same as everything else in this god damn show. The clusterfuck of colors and digital effects to try and make things look epic burned my retinas, the cuts have almost no flow between each other where the camera angles change constantly, the artstyle shifts at complete random, and it's an incomprehensible mess. I don't care if these animators are up and coming and talented, or if a ton of effort was poured into this episode, it LOOKS BAD. one shot of Karna with a shit sketchy artstyle doesn't excuse the rest. You accuse the detractors of mental gymnastics, but I feel the positive opinion of this episode is the side doing mental gymnastics to say why something that looks like a laser light show and not a fight is acceptable. Oh there's a ton of animators it must be good, this guy did good work on x his shot here is also good! I do not care about the quality of individual cuts, which appears to be all the 'Sakuga community' cares about, I care about the episode as a whole product I've consumed, and my eyes witnessed one of the hardest to comprehend, least consistent, painful on my eyes episodes of any anime ever. Yeah, this is the best animated episode of the show, because the bar is set SO LOW by the other episodes that this is the best one. But "the best looking episode of anime this year"? Hahaha no, I don't agree. You're free to hold a different opinion, but don't try and say we're only against it because we're making up reasons to think it's bad, it's clear our priorities in animation are different, the sakuga community is happy with a 3 second cut of cool animation while I prefer when an episodes animation holds together as a coherent piece of work, like One Punch Man |
SH4kun said: I would rather take clean, "well" drawn shots like this than a badly mashed up image with fluid animation that keeps going for several seconds. Hence the "animation was good but art was a downgrade" sentence. There is big issue with your comparison. One is a close up static shot, and another is a frame from complex animated sequence that is more distant. I'm sorry it's a really dumb comparison. It's a huge error to believe that every animated frame should be a painting, something you can use as your wallpaper. Animation has to be judged in motion. There is really nothing bad about image you linked, it demonstrates his ability with an exaggerated pose, and it's quite on model, anatomically correct. Animation is art. This is good animation, therefore it is good art. So no it's not a "downgrade" to art at all. It's much more impressive than any static frame you could show. here's useful video Guessing from the rest of the quality of the show in terms of writing, I doubt it. I think i explained clearly that isn't the case. It is easily demonstrated otherwise. Achiles' shield and Vasavi Shakti are from the actual legend of those characters. Maybe do some research instead of giving criticism based on rather baseless assumptions. Story makes sense if you are following and understand it. |
Rahkshilord said: I can SEE THE ANIMATION IN FRONT OF ME. wow aren't you special. The end result was god awful. You are free to think that. Most people think otherwise, people who are really interested in the subject and professionals in the industry. No bar is not set low at all, i'm skeptical of you even watching this show. It has some amazing sakuga and awesome, well animated and choreographed fight scenes. This episode was one of the best animated things in anime THIS YEAR. The clusterfuck of colors and digital effects You can't seem to be able to even describe it correctly. Digital effects this episode were virtually nonexistent. it LOOKS BAD. No it does not. Stop trying to make it as a statement of fact, especially when you know nothing about animation. You are dismissing everything only to make an authoritative assertion. If you don't like it fine, you don't like this style, no need to say more. something that looks like a laser light show and not a fight is acceptable. Oh there's a ton of animators it must be good, this guy did good work on x his shot here is also good! I do not care about the quality of individual cuts, which appears to be all the 'Sakuga community' cares about, I care about the episode as a whole product I've consumed, and my eyes witnessed one of the hardest to comprehend, least consistent, painful on my eyes episodes of any anime ever. Okay nevermind, you must be a troll. Feel free to be on the wrong side of things. I don't know what your priorities in animation is, but it's clearly not "animation". |
| @Frozenkex Please don't waste your precious time with them. Even if you explain clearly that they're wrong they will still believe their /opinion/ is right. |
| dropped this anime mid-way, but my friend watched this episode besides me and I just watch alongside him, lmao this is some naruto vs pain shit with characters moving and flying everywbere with off-model characters, but now with additional laser beam explosion everywhere and ear jarring sound effects |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
Rahkshilord said: but I'm also not retarded You definitely are if you think this episode was a clusterfuck of digital effects because there were barely any in the episode. |
| LUL This is one of those episodes where a ton of "cool" stuff is all thrown at the viewer but the substance behind it is so lackluster or (has been) straight up omitted that the entertainment value is minimal. A real shame but Apocrypha as a story anyway is pretty boring so the end result fits. ...change in art style. Quality denial statement. Even if it was...it was overall lacking depth. Explosions were decent. |
| Thanks to this thread I lost half of my brain cells. Thanks MAL |
IZEROII said: Luckily most of japan and animators on twitter know that u are the misinformed one lol LUL Quality denial statement. Even if it was...it was overall lacking depth. Explosions were decent. |
| Ok for days now I've been seeing y'all go back and forth debating the animation this episode. So I took the liberty of rewatching specifically the Karna vs. Sieg(fried) battle on youtube because that's where I remember feeling something was off when I watched it. My thoughts on the matter-- but first a disclaimer (because it seems people get salty and defensive fast): By no means do I consider myself an animation know-it-all. In fact I'm one of those viewers who's too focused on the story most of the time to notice (best example of this is the fact I didn't quite catch the shitty animation style of the earlier episodes of Dragon Ball Super, but when I saw screenshots later I laughed at how appalling it was). Also this is just going to be my pure opinion of the quality REGARDLESS of the fact the industry suffers because of animators being overworked or whatever the case is. AKA I'm NOT picky, BUT I do notice sudden quirky stylistic changes. Ahem with that out of the way-- I don't like inconsistency. Especially when the change is obvious. What I mean by this is some close ups of the characters looks normal--as we've been seeing up until now--and then at other times it looks COMPLETELY different. When I watched it the first time, I just chalked it up to being a purposeful style change but I definitly found it odd. I don't know how to describe the style but if anyone has seen Shinsekai Yori and saw how the Akki was being depicted up until the part it was actually revealed, that's what this looked like. Scary cave-wall art type sketches that at some points looked cool and at other times looks way too skinny and distorted. And let's not get started with Siegfried. Plenty of shots have him looking just bizarre. I don't see why or how anyone can argue that. The art style (or is it the animation--I don't know) makes him look derp (example scene is when Siegfried looks up just as Astofolo comes to save the day bitch gtfo. Another is after Achilles' NP is activated and you see Siegfried from afar as a little deformed image withstanding the blast. And omg don't get me started on the part where Siegfried is being blown away after finishing off Karna, he looks like a little stick person or something). If the examples I shared are examples of "good animation" then fuck good animation. Give me garbage please -.- My point is, I'm not going to declare whether I think the "animation" was good or bad because I'm no expert. But I will state how I feel towards it. Which is basically this: I didn't like it. It felt like a cluster fuck (maybe that was the point--it was an intense battle after all--but I felt like it was hard to follow and unenjoyable. I found myself losing interest at times and just waiting patiently for a still scene because all the explosions and distorted shots made me dizzy) Anyway! Animation aside I think y'all are missing the bigger issue. KARNA LOST. AFTER ALL HIS EPICNESS HE LOST BECAUSE OF PLOT! I'm still so cheesed by this (yes, I can get salty too). TheMisled said: Damn, compared to the heroic spirits from Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, these heroic spirits are downright terrifying. Um besides Karna who are you referring to? Because Gilgamesh, Lancer (F/SN), Rider (F/Z) and Berserker (F/SN) were awesome and would mop the floor with some of these fools. Although I do agree that Semiramis, Achilles and Vlad were pretty badass too. |
InugirlzDec 13, 2017 8:32 PM
fimbu1vetr said: Eh not a fan of the plot here; I feel like the writers should've thought of a better way to take down Karna. I don't like that Chiron conveniently asking for Achilles's shield, then having Rider come in to block an EX rank Noble phantasm. As an EX rank anti-divine attack, it should be able to beat anything ranked lower than it IMO. I mean word of god and all, but I don't like it. Aquilles Kosmos can defend against anti-unit, anti-army, anti-fortress, and anti-divine noble phantasms. |
| Well, I personally LOVED this episode. Very intense, and I didn't mind the animation at all... At times it looked really great...I don't think it's easy animating intense scenes like that. It's funny...I didn't think much of this anime at the beginning...but Ive really liked the second half. Of course...the Fate fans are impossible to please...makes me wonder why people even pay attention to them. Go away please. |
| I love how people are pulling the "Naruto VS Pain" card like it is some masterful example of bad animation... when in fact it's the opposite. The problem with that infamous fight scene is that, as a manga adaptation, it completely disregards both the source and the meaning in the fight, by making it incredibly over the top and with a very different style apparently from nowhere. But the animation itself was godly and it will always be. Here with Apocrypha, not only there isn't a visual source for the fight scenes (it's a novel, it's written, it's not like with manga panels that can already used as inspiration for a storyboard), but the anime itself already used a bit of this style in previous episodes, so it doesn't even come out of nowhere. Saying "lol this is just like Naruto VS Pain" just shows how little people got about both fights and animation in general. And I'm saying this fully knowning that just not liking this style is perfectly fine. You can dislike it. Just don't make arguments or comparisons to "prove" that it technically bad, because it isn't and you'll only show how you can't properly argue about your taste. Inugirlz said: Um besides Karna who are you referring to? Because Gilgamesh, Lancer (F/SN), Rider (F/Z) and Berserker (F/SN) were awesome and would mop the floor with some of these fools. Although I do agree that Semiramis, Achilles and Vlad were pretty badass too. Sorry if I'm just barging in, just wanted to clarify a couple of things. Some Servants in Apocrypha, especially from the Red Faction, are particularly high tier. Karna is close to Gilgamesh in power and we know that, but as you guessed Achilles is very dangerous by himself, and Chiron is less physically powerful but even more dangerous. In Apocrypha there are also three Servants that have some sort of invincibility/really strong armor (Karna, Achilles and Siegfried) and, to make a simple example, Rider from Zero would have an hard time with them even employing his Noble Phantasm. Berserker from stay night is... well, we know who he is. It would be a really interesting match for some Apocrypha Servants, both because of his abilities and the fact that all Greek heroes knows him (Atalanta even met him), so it would be something like Chiron vs Achilles, where his power is well known and his opponents would have to find a good strategy to hurt him. We could talk more about lore and comparisons (I'd love to because it is an interesting subject and Servants' powers and abilities in Apocrypha are really cool imho) but I don't want to suddenly jump into a discussion and make walltexts, I know I can be pretty annoying lol so I'll stop here for now. Still, I'd say that, considering either pure strength or compatibility, Apocrypha has a lot of wild cards in its cast that could be described as "terrifying" |
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| @LeloTheUnamused Actually your point about a lot of Greek Heroes in Apo can neutralize Herc becomes false the moment you realize you have to kill him 12 times.Even if they do know his weakness,be it the hydra poison,it still has to come from something A-rank otherwise it won't make any difference.Admittedly,Karna is the only servant who can do that,i.e.,kill him 12 times, in Apocrypha. |
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