Nobunaga the Fool Episode 18 Discussion

AlexTheRiot said:
That damn subtle death flag early in the episode with him helping Nobu regain his resolve, too much man.

OmegaGoku said:
Ichihime starting to get feelings for Caesar :D Eat your heart out Mitsuhide.

jfs said:
Seriously caesar is good with women... how did he make a girl whose father he killed to worry about him after only knowing each other for a day?

Meritas said:
This escalated... for the better.

Kenshin was so good(like always). The fact he lost to Alexander doesn't mean much as nobody in this land can defeat him now. I hope he gets to fulfil his oath.

This. He was my fave after Caesar.

Mitsuhide was really cool when he saved Ichi, I give it to him. Still

Pretty much this :D



It's ironic, cause Mitsuhide killed her brother. This may not be relevant at the moment, but it probably will be at some point.

jfs said:
seems like a good time for a certain knight in shining white mecha armor to save the day

Marzan said:


I'm hoping Monkey is alive, he's one of the cooler characters and doesn't have a dark secret like Mitsuhide. And did Ichihime start developing feels for her father's killer?

So Jeanne is now full blown service eye candy with her outfit, huh? I hope she does something useful before the end.

Vooo said:
Monkey can't die! won't die! I really dislike Mitsu, I feel like he is going to try and kill Nobu because of his own crazy plots he thinks up.

jfs said:


Well she likes her brothers killer too so why not... and its a war so nothing personal and he has made up for it by saving her clan...

Its actually quite believable... he is handsome and he bakes her chocolate and makes her smile.. a normal young girl would usually swoon over a guy like that

its a cliche that girls like bad boys, and you dont get badder than beating the shit out of your beloved bro and your clan, killing your father, and virtually blackmailing you to marry him

I think its mostly the chocolate that she misses though

Also idk why people say saru is dead... he is clearly going to live with nobu saying ' we must go now or saru will die'

His mecha is gone though

astranabeat said:


Man, this is so real. Girls like bad boys.

"he is not an evil man" Ichihime said.
Yeah, sure...
he is a backstaber, He killed your father, he blackmail you to marry him.

just one act of kindness, just one chocolate and now he get your heart.. Come on girl. why you so easy?

I don't ship her with mitsu. I just don't like that she has feeling for Ceasar because one chocolate cake.

jfs said:


Well oda and caesar were at war, they kill each other, nothing personal, he only backstabbed shingen, who was gona die anyway, and though it was virtually blackmail, she still made a choice herself..

One act of kindness and chocolate? i think its a little more than that... i agree that they only knew each other for a couple of days at most but in that time we have

-their interactions where he made her smile and she probably started thinking this guy isnt so evil after all

- Caesar saving her brother and clan from certain death, betraying his king for her sake, abandoning his position, rank, ambition in the process without a second thought

-helped save ranmaru and nobunaga again, risked his life by fighting cesare

-saved the guy she liked, and got stranded in a now hostile planet because of that, while said guy got home safely

i think its normal she would get a little fond and worry about him after she heard of all the things he did for her... girls usually have a soft spot for men who tries hard to win their heart.. the fact that he is a handsome bishie and can make chocolate cakes is just a bonus..

and nobody else seems to hold a grudge against caesar.. even himiko and nobu counts him as one of their own, they probably sleep with one eye open though

astranabeat said:
I understood what you say. I just don't like blackmail. sure, she made her choice but if she refuse? her clan will doom. If she want her clan to survive then she had one choice and that is she must marry Ceasar. In my opinion I don't think she made her choice. I think she was force to chose only that one choice or in other words she made her choice because she only had that one choice.

this is what i see.
Ceasar will save her clan if she marry him and if she not then he will destroy her clan. He doesn't said it out loud but we know he will destroy Odaclan for sure if Ichihime refuse. So I don't think she have a choice in this matter. yeah, she said this is her life she can do what she want, but come on, it clear as day that she was force to marry him.
I won't hate him If he try to win her heart fair.

I can't love someone who kill my father. can you? Sure, it is war. but he kill your father you know.
Just imagine someone run over your dad. you won't hate him because it just an accident?

she can love Ceasar who killed her father. I hope she doesn't hate Mitsu when she know Mitsu killed her brother. Man, that guy hurt enough.

jfs said:


well its not like there were no other options.. initially Caesar only asked for the regalia, even offering to protect the entire oda clan with their power and make sure they live in peace, but when nobu refused because the guy wanted to rule heaven and earth or whatever so caesar renegotiated another term... it was fair actually.. you forgot that caesar has nobu and co defeated at the end of ep 11, if he wanted to he could have just killed/captured them as hostages and presented them to arthur and forced ichi to marry him

If we are talking blackmail what ichi did to him was closer to that.. it was obvious that caesar was smitten with her and she forced him to make a choice: choose to betray your king and possibly piss of the entire western star(which was obviously not part of their agreement, and it was obvious caesar was loyal to king arthur since he hesitated alot) or choose me (btw it wont guarantee that i will love you)

What caesar did was fair: it was quite simply give and take, and imo caesar has redeemed himself and paid more than what he was supposed to, without him the Oda would be destroyed

Well like i said they were at war and killing each other... if my father was trying to kill a guy and the other guy killed him instead i will be pissed but its nothing personal...

The difference with mitsu is caesar was an ENEMY, but mitsu is nobus closest friend and confidant, but he secretly chose to kill poor innocent nobukatsu for the sake of the clan, hid the fact that he did it from nobu and ichi (why? because he was afraid they would be pissed at him? he should own up for his actions to those two at least.. keeping a secret like that will only bite him in the ass sooner or later)

astranabeat said:
Well, I think at first Ceasar only asked Regalia because he expect Nobu to refuse and then he can give them another option, option that will be benefit to Odaclan, option that Ichihime will likely accapt. The option is "I will protect all of you in exchange I will take Ichihime to be my queen". If everything go like this he can marry Ichihime and make her love him later. but if Ceasar take Nobu to Authur and force Ichihime to marry him then he can't make her love him. I mean he killed her father and send Nobu to Authur to die. if scenario go like this Ichihime will never love him I guaruntee it.

Well, some how I think you are right. I just hate Ceasar so everything in him it will be bad in my eyes.

The fact Mitsu kill Ichihime brother. he can't just said "I killed your brother for the clan so don't hate me". You said "why? because he was afraid they would be pissed at him?". Yeah, I think this is it. Noone want the one you love to hate you. me include. If his action was a little thing then I think Mitsu can tell Nobu or Ichihime but if his action was he Choose to Killed Nobu's brother then He can't the truth. it not an accident, it was murder .So it's logical that he can't tell.

If Mitsu don't killed Ichihime's brother I think Odaclan will be destroy long before Ceasar can beat Nobu because one man can't win the wars. sure Nobu have friend who can fight but that doesn't enough at that time only Nobu have War-armor. If Nobu doesn't have absolute power in the clan, if his subordinate hate him and only want to take order from Ichihime's brother who doesn't have skill to win wars then Odaclan got destroy will be Inevitable. Sure Mitsu can talk to Nobu or someone about how to make Nobu the lord of the clan but lord who subordinate doesn't obey is lord in name.if Ichihime's brother was alive Nobu will never ever have absolute power in the clan.

Just like you said, I'm sure Mitsu's secret will bite his ass later and break his heart even more when Ichihime hate him.

jfs said:


Ironically nobuhide had to die at some point too anyway so nobu can be clan leader so it was only a question of by who and when...

Well I disagree.. I think forcing a woman to marry you would make her hate you instead of making her fall for you... she wasnt thrilled at the start to marry him after all.. actually she hated it, he couldve tried wooing her in a less forceful way

Idk I didnt like caesar x ichi until ep 14.. I mean caesar was a jerk before that (he became a magnificent jerk ass after his powerup in ep 11 though) but after that he became totally awesome... you can see how much ichi changed him and I liked that kind of development.. I prefer relationships where the girl hated the guy at first then slowly wins her over over that where girl and guy just likes each other from the start for no reason other than plot and drama,

astranabeat said:
I also think forcing woman to marry you would make her hate you but not in this case. Her clan will be benefit from Ceasar and after she marry him he can show good side to her to win her heart. but if Ceasar take Nobu to Authur and force her to marry him she would hate him forever because Ceasar take the last of her family from her. I think Ceasar want her heart too not just her body so he asked Regalia expect Nobu to refuse so he can give them another option, offer to help exchange with Ichihime. So yeah, for the clan she likely to accept.

I would like Ceasar more if he offer help and just say" Ichihime I love you I will help you even though I will be Authur's enemy." that's it. I will cheer him with all my heart. Just don't force her to marry you, man.

Now, I wait for Ceasar to die(I think his model was Azai Nakamasa her first husband who died because seppuku ) and Mitsu to betray Nobu like in history. If Satelight take that route of course.

jfs said:

If nobu agreed to side with arthur caesar wouldnt have demanded ichi, he asked for her hand only cause nobu didnt want to give the regalias

astranabeat said:
Do you think so? I mean he want her that much, he love her at first sight I think he will do any thing to get her. You also said "he was an opportunist who does what he has to to get what he wants"and I agree with this. I think you contradict yourself if you think Ceasar doesn't use this chance to marry her.

I think Ceasar will do any thing to get Ichihime whatever Nobu agree to give up the Regalias or not.

jfs said:
As much as he wanted her, king arthur and his ambitions came first, at least before he married her... yes he would still try to get her but if nobu had handed the regalia he would have to find another way to win her hand e.g he has to offer the oda clan something else other than his protection.. some kind of equivalent exchange, doubt he would resort to kidnapping though

astranabeat said:
Why king arthur and his ambitions came first if he fail to get Ragalias and doesn't try to get Ragalias again by any other mean? I mean Nobu refuse and after that he just forget about regalias and offer help exchange with Ichihime must marry him. he don't try to get ragalias after that any more because now he got Ichihime. Authur was not his first any more after he saw Ichihime for the first time.

If Nobu give him Ragalias he will lost a chance to be allied with Odaclan or in other word lost chance to get Ichihime. because if Nobu give up Ragalias it will be equal to Odaclan surrender so Odaclan doesn't need protection from Ceasar any more. If Ceasar can't offer protection then what can he offer to force Ichihime to marry him? I can't think of any thing he can offer other than protection. In Ichiheme mind Odaclan came first so if Ceasar can't offer something that her clan want most then I think no chance that Ichihime will be marry Ceasar for her clan.

I can't imagine how Ceasar will made Ichihime love him If he don't force her to marry him first then try to win her heart later because at that time Ichihime love Mitsu.If Ceasar doesn't force Ichihime to marry him cut her from Mitsu I don't think Ceasar will get any chance to be with her let alone a chance to talk to her.