Nobunaga the Fool Episode 22 Discussion

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May 2014

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MITSU I AM YOUR FATHER

Come on dude, at least Alexander and Caesar saw legendary figures (achiles and Aphrodite)

honestly, that was pathetic how he cried and went 'daddy'- Caesar is right again on his daddy issues

Honestly, is anyone still surprised Ichi chose caesar over him? Compared to Mitsu caesar has the purest heart, and i meant that

Seems like former round table members were revived into perfectas and zombified, except caesar, Brutus took his place.. the other 4 seats is supposed to be nobu saru himiko and jeanne...

Guess they didnt have time to find caesars DNA to edo tensei him or whatever

jfsJun 8, 2014 10:38 AM

Jun 8, 2014 12:45 PM

#4

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:
MITSU I AM YOUR FATHER

Come on dude, at least Alexander and Caesar saw legendary figures (achiles and Aphrodite)

honestly, that was pathetic how he cried and went 'daddy'- Caesar is right again on his daddy issues

Honestly, is anyone still surprised Ichi chose caesar over him? Compared to Mitsu caesar has the purest heart, and i meant that

Seems like former round table members were revived into perfectas and zombified, except caesar, Brutus took his place.. the other 4 seats is supposed to be nobu saru himiko and jeanne...

Guess they didnt have time to find caesars DNA to edo tensei him or whatever

Regardless of your bias against Mitsuhide, it doesn't change the fact that all of them, including Caesar, were manipulated by Arthur. The question now is what Nobunaga's next course of action is.

Jun 8, 2014 1:01 PM

#5

Resident

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Jan 2014

887

Man, The Star of the East looks like a wasteland, I really miss the old beautiful landscape.
I really felt for Nobu and Mitsu in this episode. They both have toshoulder a lot of pain.
I love seeing Saru being cheerful around the kids.
Himiko really needs to take of herself more.
I hope she realizes that her death will bring Nobu more pain.
Mitsu can be deceived so easily, especially after Ichihime's death.

Jun 8, 2014 1:24 PM

#6

removed-user

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The Star of the East looks so much like a wasteland for now.

Poor Himiko, she plan to sacrifice herself.

King Arthur used Mitsuhide's father face to make Mitsuhide believing that Nobunaga is evil.

Jun 8, 2014 1:28 PM

#7

Bodomschild

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Jun 2014

207

HonnÅ�-ji it's coming. I guess it was too much for a Caesar/Ichi funeral scene. My guess is they needed Caesar's body for the perfecta. I'm surprised they didn't have a scene where Mitsu buried the comb. That Brutus was pretty random lol... Mitsu I want to like you but I can't seriously, they made him into a character that you really can't root for.

Jun 8, 2014 1:37 PM

#8

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

Regardless of your bias against Mitsuhide, it doesn't change the fact that all of them, including Caesar, were manipulated by Arthur. The question now is what Nobunaga's next course of action is.

And why am i biased against Mitsu in the first place? Because he is pathetic

Sniffing and crying and calling out 'daddy' at his age... is frankly pitiful

And he still found a way to blame Nobu for ichihimes death despite it was obviously people from arthurs side that was to blame.. and went to arthurs place on his own free will (SERIOUSLY this guys fortress sucks the life out of the planet itself and he still went to him thinking he might be the savio king instead)

jfsJun 8, 2014 1:45 PM

Jun 8, 2014 1:43 PM

#9

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Jan 2014

580

BaiHu27 said:

jfs said:
MITSU I AM YOUR FATHER

Come on dude, at least Alexander and Caesar saw legendary figures (achiles and Aphrodite)

honestly, that was pathetic how he cried and went 'daddy'- Caesar is right again on his daddy issues

Honestly, is anyone still surprised Ichi chose caesar over him? Compared to Mitsu caesar has the purest heart, and i meant that

Seems like former round table members were revived into perfectas and zombified, except caesar, Brutus took his place.. the other 4 seats is supposed to be nobu saru himiko and jeanne...

Guess they didnt have time to find caesars DNA to edo tensei him or whatever

Regardless of your bias against Mitsuhide, it doesn't change the fact that all of them, including Caesar, were manipulated by Arthur. The question now is what Nobunaga's next course of action is.

Thank you Baihu! The one reason I hate reading this particualr discussion is JFS. OMG he sees his father, "hes so pathetic". Urgh.. give me a break. Its simple arthur manipulating another person. We saw in the last episode that nobu has the power to undo Arthur's power.

JFS needs to shut up with his biasness already. it pisses off quite a lot of us in here. Yes mitsu was an idiot this episode and wanted to confront his doubts. I don't like that he was blaming nobu for these things because arthur was the one who did it but for the love of god stop with that hate. I'm sick of reading through it every single discussion.

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Jun 8, 2014 1:45 PM

#10

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

Regardless of your bias against Mitsuhide, it doesn't change the fact that all of them, including Caesar, were manipulated by Arthur. The question now is what Nobunaga's next course of action is.

And why am i biased against Mitsu in the first place? Because he is pathetic

Sniffing and crying and calling out 'daddy' at his age... is frankly pitiful

There's nothing wrong with crying for a father whom you've loved. Anyone would considering the person in question regardless of age. That is only my humble opinion.

Jun 8, 2014 1:45 PM

#11

Outcaster00

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Mar 2014

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an alright episode destruction and Betrayal everywhere

oh man from the preview it looks like it's gonna be Himeko's big moment!!

Jun 8, 2014 1:52 PM

#12

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May 2014

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BaiHu27 said:

There's nothing wrong with crying for a father whom you've loved. Anyone would considering the person in question regardless of age. That is only my humble opinion.

Did Nobu sniff and cry 'daddy' when he saw his dad in ep 19? so nah not anyone

Mitsu is obsessed with his daddy issues, caesar confirmed this in ep 17

So what umad?

Did arthur also manipulate Mitsu to go betray Nobu, his supposed best friend, despite Ichihimes last words believing in him, to go to arthur on his own free will despite the entire thing being clearly arthurs doing, and arthus side being the one that caused Ichis death in the first place? please

And even with ceesar/ichi dead watching Mitsu suffer and becoming a fag is still hilarious and worth watching the show for me, eat your heart out

Jun 8, 2014 1:52 PM

#13

Madara31

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Are they ever gonna explain how Arthur manages to change his appearance depending on who he's speaking to, or have I missed something? In any case, here's hoping Himiko survives.

Jun 8, 2014 2:00 PM

#14

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

There's nothing wrong with crying for a father whom you've loved. Anyone would considering the person in question regardless of age. That is only my humble opinion.

Did Nobu sniff and cry 'daddy' when he saw his dad in ep 19? so nah not anyone

Mitsu is obsessed with his daddy issues, caesar confirmed this in ep 17

So what umad?

Did arthur also manipulate Mitsu to go betray Nobu, his supposed best friend, despite Ichihimes last words believing in him, to go to arthur on his own free will despite the entire thing being clearly arthurs doing, and arthus side being the one that caused Ichis death in the first place? please

And even with ceesar/ichi dead watching Mitsu suffer and becoming a fag is still hilarious and worth watching the show for me, eat your heart out

Forgive me, but why ask me something along the lines of "umad"? You seem to believe that I take this on a personal level. To answer your question, no I am not mad. I am fairly indifferent to the events that are transpiring simply because it does not affect me whatsoever. Rather, forgive my abrupt analysis, but you seem like the passionate person who wears her emotions on her sleeves. While I maintain a rather cordial conversation, you seem quick to defend your views by slandering a fictional character in the hopes that it would hurt me emotionally. All I said was my view of Mitsuhide's reaction, yet you vehemently voice out negatives of said character. For future conversations, please try to remove your "fangirl" mentality and recognize the conversation for what it is rather than what you interpret it to be.

Jun 8, 2014 2:03 PM

#15

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Jan 2014

580

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

There's nothing wrong with crying for a father whom you've loved. Anyone would considering the person in question regardless of age. That is only my humble opinion.

Did Nobu sniff and cry 'daddy' when he saw his dad in ep 19? so nah not anyone

Mitsu is obsessed with his daddy issues, caesar confirmed this in ep 17

So what umad?

Did arthur also manipulate Mitsu to go betray Nobu, his supposed best friend, despite Ichihimes last words believing in him, to go to arthur on his own free will despite the entire thing being clearly arthurs doing, and arthus side being the one that caused Ichis death in the first place? please

And even with ceesar/ichi dead watching Mitsu suffer and becoming a fag is still hilarious and worth watching the show for me, eat your heart out

WARNING, BELOW IS A RANT DEDICATED TO JFS

OMFG, you are one annoying piece of work.... You're comparing a man who has to put his people and take their sadness upon himself to one who does all of his deeds in the darkness for the other one. Mitsu has issues yes, but you freaking need to shut THE HELL UP. I'm not up for bashing people but for christ sake you are annoying.

He is morning and angry because of it. He has heard nobu is the destroyer king and he wanted to confirm the status of destroyer and Saviour. Is that a crime? No. Arthur has some kind of mysterious power which allows him to manipulate others. So of course even someone close to nobu would get caught. (speculating)I'm pretty sure the only ones who can avoid it are those who can feel like leylines/dragons or are either savior or destroyer king.(specualting)

Yes arthur did everything we know arthur did everything but you don't tell a person how to grieve especially when all you here is Nobunaga is the destroyer king. Yes he should have more faith in nobu but he wanted to figure out where everything stood. Did he know arthur has mind manipulating powers? No. Jesus christ you are a pain...

The main reason he is blaming nobu comes down to that idiotic princess and most of it comes from nobu's inability to save her. The man is greiving and here you are, being a sick being enjoying someone's sadness/doubt in their moment of weakness..

BaiHu27 said:

Forgive me, but why ask me something along the lines of "umad"? You seem to believe that I take this on a personal level. To answer your question, no I am not mad. I am fairly indifferent to the events that are transpiring simply because it does not affect me whatsoever. Rather, forgive my abrupt analysis, but you seem like the passionate person who wears her emotions on her sleeves. While I maintain a rather cordial conversation, you seem quick to defend your views by slandering a fictional character in the hopes that it would hurt me emotionally. All I said was my view of Mitsuhide's reaction, yet you vehemently voice out negatives of said character. For future conversations, please try to remove your "fangirl" mentality and recognize the conversation for what it is rather than what you interpret it to be.

+ 1

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Jun 8, 2014 2:05 PM

#16

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

There's nothing wrong with crying for a father whom you've loved. Anyone would considering the person in question regardless of age. That is only my humble opinion.

Did Nobu sniff and cry 'daddy' when he saw his dad in ep 19? so nah not anyone

Mitsu is obsessed with his daddy issues, caesar confirmed this in ep 17

So what umad?

Did arthur also manipulate Mitsu to go betray Nobu, his supposed best friend, despite Ichihimes last words believing in him, to go to arthur on his own free will despite the entire thing being clearly arthurs doing, and arthus side being the one that caused Ichis death in the first place? please

And even with ceesar/ichi dead watching Mitsu suffer and becoming a fag is still hilarious and worth watching the show for me, eat your heart out

+1

gota say i agree with this.. Mitsu is supposed to be a symphatetic/tragic character but this show fails miserably if that was the writers intention..

First is that ridiculous hairflip, can never get used to those... then there are those emo/jelly moments where his face becomes just..

And seriously how can he doubt Nobu and go to arthur despite everything thats happened? it cant be anymore clear that it is arthur who is responsible for Ichihimes death, yet mitsu still doubts his supposed BFF and now gets himself under Arthurs mind control... through the image of his papa!

Frankly, i can get over the father being arthurs image, but the part that he sniffed like a baby and cried 'father', is in all seriousness really laughable

Jun 8, 2014 2:09 PM

#17

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

Forgive me, but why ask me something along the lines of "umad"? You seem to believe that I take this on a personal level. To answer your question, no I am not mad. I am fairly indifferent to the events that are transpiring simply because it does not affect me whatsoever. Rather, forgive my abrupt analysis, but you seem like the passionate person who wears her emotions on her sleeves. While I maintain a rather cordial conversation, you seem quick to defend your views by slandering a fictional character in the hopes that it would hurt me emotionally. All I said was my view of Mitsuhide's reaction, yet you vehemently voice out negatives of said character. For future conversations, please try to remove your "fangirl" mentality and recognize the conversation for what it is rather than what you interpret it to be.

I was referring to the other guy whose rant i couldnt be bothered to quote directly

And to the other guy, how is she 'idiotic' and how does Nobu 'fail' to save her? you are the one who needs to take off your hate glasses... Nobu did everything right last episode, nobody could have predicted or stopped cesare from ordering his assasination...

Nobu does not deserve being doubted after last episode, at least Jeanne has her visions and was arguably influenced by arthur, but mitsu has always doubted Nobu since episode 19, where da vinci put ideas in his head

Besides its much more sensible to blame caesar, he is her husband and was supposed to protect her, but what, he blames Nobu instead? or why not blame himself since he swore so confidently 'i wont let anything happen to you, ichihime-sama'

Jun 8, 2014 2:16 PM

#18

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

Forgive me, but why ask me something along the lines of "umad"? You seem to believe that I take this on a personal level. To answer your question, no I am not mad. I am fairly indifferent to the events that are transpiring simply because it does not affect me whatsoever. Rather, forgive my abrupt analysis, but you seem like the passionate person who wears her emotions on her sleeves. While I maintain a rather cordial conversation, you seem quick to defend your views by slandering a fictional character in the hopes that it would hurt me emotionally. All I said was my view of Mitsuhide's reaction, yet you vehemently voice out negatives of said character. For future conversations, please try to remove your "fangirl" mentality and recognize the conversation for what it is rather than what you interpret it to be.

I was referring to the other guy whose rant i couldnt be bothered to quote directly

And to the other guy, how is she 'idiotic' and how does Nobu 'fail' to save her? you are the one who needs to take off your hate glasses... Nobu did everything right last episode, nobody could have predicted or stopped cesare from ordering his assasination...

Nobu does not deserve being doubted after last episode, at least Jeanne has her visions and was arguably influenced by arthur, but mitsu has always doubted Nobu since episode 19, where da vinci put ideas in his head

Besides its much more sensible to blame caesar, he is her husband and was supposed to protect her, but what, he blames Nobu instead? or why not blame himself since he swore so confidently 'i wont let anything happen to you, ichihime-sama'

Alright, it was my mistake in misinterpreting who you sent the message to, and for that I apologize.

Jun 8, 2014 2:17 PM

#19

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jfs said:

I was referring to the other guy whose rant i couldnt be bothered to quote directly

And to the other guy, how is she 'idiotic' and how does Nobu 'fail' to save her? you are the one who needs to take off your hate glasses... Nobu did everything right last episode, nobody could have predicted or stopped cesare from ordering his assasination...

Nobu does not deserve being doubted after last episode, at least Jeanne has her visions and was arguably influenced by arthur, but mitsu has always doubted Nobu since episode 19, where da vinci put ideas in his head

Besides its much more sensible to blame caesar, he is her husband and was supposed to protect her, but what, he blames Nobu instead? or why not blame himself since he swore so confidently 'i wont let anything happen to you, ichihime-sama'

For the love of god... In mitsuhide's eyes, nobunaga failed to save the woman who he was in love with, on top of that he has been hearing that nobunaga is the destroyer king. Nobunaga was right there with ceaser and ichi and in his eyes he didn't save them.

Add grief and regret into that equation and you can understand where Mitsu is coming from. I'm not saying what he did was justified but at that point in time there was enough doubt in his heart for him to go forward. He wanted to dispell his doubts once and for all so he went to arthur. (speculation) No one really sees that arthur has manipulative powers because once you stand in front of him it automatically begins to work on you.(speculation) You are watching from the angle of "I hate mitsuhide" and I am watching from the angle, "mitsu, is being an idiot but I can see where he is coming from, still doesn't change the fact that hes being an idiot"

You need to take of your hate goggles and take a good look at the episode again.

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Jun 8, 2014 2:17 PM

#20

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jfs said:

Nobu does not deserve being doubted after last episode, at least Jeanne has her visions and was arguably influenced by arthur, but mitsu has always doubted Nobu since episode 19, where da vinci put ideas in his head

Besides its much more sensible to blame caesar, he is her husband and was supposed to protect her, but what, he blames Nobu instead? or why not blame himself since he swore so confidently 'i wont let anything happen to you, ichihime-sama'

Blaming Caesar for her death would be wrong too, the princess knew she was risking her life to see caesar and she was prepared for it, she wanted to find out if he truly loved her or not, and she was upset when he talked about loving 'everything equally', its her life, her call to do what she wants with it, everyone should just accept that and stop blaming Nobu or whoever, the ones who killed her are cesare and the twins, its their fault and theirs alone

Jun 8, 2014 2:23 PM

#21

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uran10 said:

For the love of god... In mitsuhide's eyes, nobunaga failed to save the woman who he was in love with, on top of that he has been hearing that nobunaga is the destroyer king. Nobunaga was right there with ceaser and ichi and in his eyes he didn't save them.

Add grief and regret into that equation and you can understand where Mitsu is coming from. I'm not saying what he did was justified but at that point in time there was enough doubt in his heart for him to go forward. He wanted to dispell his doubts once and for all so he went to arthur. (speculation) No one really sees that arthur has manipulative powers because once you stand in front of him it automatically begins to work on you.(speculation) You are watching from the angle of "I hate mitsuhide" and I am watching from the angle, "mitsu, is being an idiot but I can see where he is coming from, still doesn't change the fact that hes being an idiot"

You need to take of your hate goggles and take a good look at the episode again.

Um so let me ask you, who was it that swore 'i will never let anything happen to you Ichihime sama' , Nobu or Mitsu?

Mitsu was the one who failed to protect her... he shouldnt blame Nobu, now i agree that i may have been to biased in speaking out against Mitsu, but you cant deny he was UNREASONABLE to blame Nobu in any way for Ichis death

Mitsu was there too along with jeanne, maybe if he wasnt so busy drawing his sword towards nobu and getting all angsty about it he couldve gotten there in time, Nobu is not God, he cant save 2 people who were ambushed so suddenly, if anything he noticed the danger before anyone else

Ill just blame it on Plot induced stupidity, but its kinda obvious who is the destroyer king here... Arthurs Palace sucks the very life out of the planet and is causing the destruction.. how can Mitsu think arthur can POSSIBLY a good guy-_-

Anyway with my main reason for watching this show gone, im going to tone it down from now, so that should be enough for you

Jun 8, 2014 2:29 PM

#22

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Jan 2014

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jfs said:

Um so let me ask you, who was it that swore 'i will never let anything happen to you Ichihime sama' , Nobu or Mitsu?

Mitsu was the one who failed to protect her... he shouldnt blame Nobu, now i agree that i may have been to biased in speaking out against Mitsu, but you cant deny he was UNREASONABLE to blame Nobu in any way for Ichis death

Mitsu was there too along with jeanne, maybe if he wasnt so busy drawing his sword towards nobu and getting all angsty about it he couldve gotten there in time, Nobu is not God, he cant save 2 people who were ambushed so suddenly, if anything he noticed the danger before anyone else

Anyway with my main reason for watching this show gone, im going to tone it down from now, so that should be enough for you

All of them technically failed to protect her. He was in that instance also acting under the impression that nobu is the destroyer king. No one could have gotten there int ime is right, but nobu did try and he did FAIL. Mitsu also failed. Everyone who was present failed to save her.

I already said that mitsu was an idiot in this episode didn't I? what I meant by that was him blaming nobu but he was grieving. Its not forgivable, but he was in his moment of weakness. From the outside watching we can see clearly. But if you were there, you might have done the exact same thing.

Anyway 2 more episodes left, let's see how this ends because I really don't see it wrapping up properly right now.

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Jun 8, 2014 2:34 PM

#23

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:

Ill just blame it on Plot induced stupidity, but its kinda obvious who is the destroyer king here... Arthurs Palace sucks the very life out of the planet and is causing the destruction.. how can Mitsu think arthur can POSSIBLY a good guy-_-

Anyway with my main reason for watching this show gone, im going to tone it down from now, so that should be enough for you

Aw i actually enjoyed reading the long discussions, nice to see people still care about this series

Still i just think you need to tone it down a little, funny thing is 2ch has alot of people laughing and trolling Mitsu, but there are some people here who like Mitsu so you might ruffle their feathers, so to bash Mitsu just post in 2ch instead, but otherwise most of your posts have a point in it

Anyway i dont think anyone was to blame for her death, as i said, Ichihime chose to risk her life to see caesar, because she was probably in love with him and needed to find out why he was behaving this way

She went to enemy territory with minimal protection and knew the risks, it was nobodys fault, she made her choice, and she lived (or died) by it

Jun 8, 2014 2:42 PM

#24

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May 2014

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uran10 said:

All of them technically failed to protect her. He was in that instance also acting under the impression that nobu is the destroyer king. No one could have gotten there int ime is right, but nobu did try and he did FAIL. Mitsu also failed. Everyone who was present failed to save her.

I already said that mitsu was an idiot in this episode didn't I? what I meant by that was him blaming nobu but he was grieving. Its not forgivable, but he was in his moment of weakness. From the outside watching we can see clearly. But if you were there, you might have done the exact same thing.

Anyway 2 more episodes left, let's see how this ends because I really don't see it wrapping up properly right now.

You are probably right, Just that its Mitsu who several times mentioned protecting her like its his duty, so to see him blame nobu like this is hard to accept, but i guess they have to give him a reason for his betrayal, maybe, idk how Mitsu might feel last ep, i guess mitsu was always the impulsive emotional type (remember when he tried to punch cesare in ep 17), so i guess it fits his character

I agree with the guy above i guess, Ichi decided to meet caesar with little protection and she knew she was risking her life, its her life tbh, she chose to risk it and lost it, and i dont think she regretted it

Yeah there is alot of unresolved plotlines for 2 episodes, Like Kenshin, is he like really going to be trapped there forever? 2 eps left and we have yet to see his rematch with alexander

Im most interested in how Palais Natura (arthurs thing) is related to Honnouji... Will the betrayal occur during the last supper? (ie when the 12 chosen meet) after all in the painting Mitsu is depicted as Judas

Well Honnouji is a temple and arthurs palace seemed like a church, so i guess they can relate it that way, its kind of loose, but this anime isnt one to worry about those things

jfsJun 8, 2014 2:47 PM

Jun 8, 2014 2:50 PM

#25

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Jun 2014

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jfs said:

uran10 said:

All of them technically failed to protect her. He was in that instance also acting under the impression that nobu is the destroyer king. No one could have gotten there int ime is right, but nobu did try and he did FAIL. Mitsu also failed. Everyone who was present failed to save her.

I already said that mitsu was an idiot in this episode didn't I? what I meant by that was him blaming nobu but he was grieving. Its not forgivable, but he was in his moment of weakness. From the outside watching we can see clearly. But if you were there, you might have done the exact same thing.

Anyway 2 more episodes left, let's see how this ends because I really don't see it wrapping up properly right now.

You are probably right, Just that its Mitsu who several times mentioned protecting her like its his duty, so to see him blame nobu like this is hard to accept, but i guess they have to give him a reason for his betrayal, maybe, idk how Mitsu might feel last ep, i guess mitsu was always the impulsive emotional type (remember when he tried to punch cesare in ep 17), so i guess it fits his character

I agree with the guy above i guess, Ichi decided to meet caesar with little protection and she knew she was risking her life, its her life tbh, she chose to risk it and lost it, and i dont think she regretted it

Yeah there is alot of unresolved plotlines for 2 episodes, Like Kenshin, is he like really going to be trapped there forever? 2 eps left and we have yet to see his rematch with alexander

Im most interested in how Palais Natura (arthurs thing) is related to Honnouji... Will the betrayal occur during the last supper? (ie when the 12 chosen meet) after all in the painting Mitsu is depicted as Judas

Well Honnouji is a temple and arthurs palace seemed like a church, so i guess they can relate it that way, its kind of loose, but this anime isnt one to worry about those things

Speaking of Kenshin, will he show up? I also feel that maybe Da Vinci could be manipulating the whole thing.

Jun 8, 2014 2:53 PM

#26

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BaiHu27 said:

Speaking of Kenshin, will he show up? I also feel that maybe Da Vinci could be manipulating the whole thing.

I think kenshin is gone but Da Vinci manipulating the whole thing feels very plausible.

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Jun 8, 2014 3:04 PM

#27

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I cant imagine Kenshin being gone forever, with Mitsu now going traitor and the East side clearly underpowered, They will probably need his strength soon,.. he will probably make a dramatic entrance to crash the party at some point

Jun 8, 2014 3:30 PM

#28

Sol_Ou

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So Mitsu will betray Nobu probably next ep. I'm surprised he didnt pick up excalibur. And that was a good bro moment between Mitsu and Saru. I liked it a lot. And wow Himiko. Straight up saying to Saru "You cant comfort me".

Even though Da Vinci said he never met Arthur I feel they are related somehow. If it wasnt for Da Vinci, Mitsu may not have turned out this way, regardless of real history. And why cant Mitsu understand faster that he's got 3 hot shinobi that would do anything for him? Helloooooo to Mitsu; wake up. Stop being obsessed with a girl thats now dead.

You want to throw down?

Jun 8, 2014 3:48 PM

#29

Swantje

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Jan 2014

165

Now I'm really wondering what's under Arthur's mask. Apparently the mask can change in every way possible, to every person possible. I'm wondering if the 'real' Arthur is a she (However, I doubt it, posture looks a bit too manly), a he (Mostly likely) or maybe even an 'it'. BTW, from the moment Mitsuhide assassinated Nobunaga's brother, I already started disliking him. I mean, the one moment he is praising Nobunaga, and the other moment he is hating him and blaming him...

Jun 8, 2014 3:51 PM

#30

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May 2014

386

MiyuBunny said:
Now I'm really wondering what's under Arthur's mask. Apparently the mask can change in every way possible, to every person possible. I'm wondering if the 'real' Arthur is a she (However, I doubt it, posture looks a bit too manly), a he (Mostly likely) or maybe even an 'it'. BTW, from the moment Mitsuhide assassinated Nobunaga's brother, I already started disliking him. I mean, the one moment he is praising Nobunaga, and the other moment he is hating him and blaming him...

I watched the subbed episode again properly... and i still cant understand this

Mitsu said

1) Ichi fell victim to the destroyer king---- So who threw the spear that killed her? Arthurs minions

2) Nobu was responsible for the land dying---- Arthurs palace is clearly sucking the life out of the planet....

I mean come on Mitsu is supposed to be a strategist right, cant he add 2 and 2 together and see that arthur is clearly the baddie here.. or is it just bad writing?

Jun 8, 2014 4:15 PM

#31

SugoiHaru

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Mar 2014

3

Mitsu is honestly just making me mad at this point. I understand where he is coming from and what is going on with his character but he is just so blinded. Honestly I kinda hope Nobu meets Arthur because I want to know who Arthur would make him see. Thankfully at least Jeanne and Monkey are staying faithful to Nobu.

Jun 8, 2014 4:20 PM

#32

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Jun 2014

32

Well they had to include Mitsuhide's historical betrayal against Nobunaga somewhere. Regardless, the way the writers are handling this is pretty weak and stupid. Mitsuhide is written as a grief-stricken character who is blinded by emotion and can't make rational decisions. Its a poor reason for him to join Arthur. Overall, the episode was pretty weak since the reasons Mitsuhide gave for suspecting Nobunaga as the Destroyer-King are not justified.

Jun 8, 2014 4:20 PM

#33

EratiK

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Apr 2012

4896

Brainwashing is served.

For some reason I feel a lot of people fail to understand that what's interesting in a show is to have a variety of situations and characters, each with their own motivations and reactions. Mitsuhide is undoubtedly part of this variety, as intended by Kawamori. I understand people not liking him (I'm not especially fond of him myself), but I don't understand what's so fun about bashing him tbh. Glad I don't have to experiment first-hand the surprisingly homogenous mentality of other boards.

Jun 8, 2014 5:19 PM

#34

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Jun 2014

5

I agree that the sooner Mitsu gets over Ichihime the better for him, TBH with him saying 'now that you are gone i will never be at peace' this episode... well idk about that

Speaking objectively, Ichihime was clearly already deeply in love with caesar since the start of ep 21, and even when caesar said bluntly Mitsu loves her, she didnt seem to care, but when caesar showed that he had affections for her and still loved her she was clearly touched/moved or whatever.. come on, she didnt even look at you when she was dying, she only had thoughts for 1) her beloved 2) her brother

If Ichi survived the ep, Mitsu would have to watch Ichi devote her heart (and body) to the husband that she clearly loves now, so imo her death might actually be unexpectedly good for Mitsu in the long run, perhaps he might pick that Hatsu girl (he seems to interact with her most out of the ninja girls)

Jun 8, 2014 5:40 PM

#35

Bodomschild

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Jun 2014

207

Honestly I don't see a good ending for Mitsu. He's been setup as a tragic character since ep 1. I agree that line that Mitsu said had me scratching my head. Ichi clearly died in love with Caesar if she had lived it would have been weird, but if we go by the character song she did still have feelings for Mitsu so you never know.

Jun 8, 2014 5:44 PM

#36

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May 2014

386

Bodomschild said:
Honestly I don't see a good ending for Mitsu. He's been setup as a tragic character since ep 1. I agree that line that Mitsu said had me scratching my head. Ichi clearly died in love with Caesar if she had lived it would have been weird, but if we go by the character song she did still have feelings for Mitsu so you never know.

No, character song says she will not forget her past feelings, but now she has an important person she has truly fallen in love with (caesar obviously), and that she wont hesitate anymore about her feelings, and i think you can see that in ep 21 she has completely gotten over whatever feelings she had for Mitsu (i doubt her feelings for Mitsu was ever anything close to love, otherwise caesar wouldnt be able to capture her heart so quickly)

The entire tragedy came from her decision to see him and talk to him to find out his true feelings no matter what, even if it meant risking her life, so she knew what she was getting herself into, i think everyone should just respect her decision, as she said, she chose her path and was willing to accept the consequences

Ofc i think she would still be there for him as a friend but that would just make it more painful getting friendzoned while her heart clearly belongs to someone else

jfsJun 8, 2014 5:52 PM

Jun 8, 2014 5:48 PM

#37

Vooo

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Jan 2013

1294

Mitsuhide's role is of a coward just like in history. Always hiding behind the physical and emotional mask. He will always be remembered for his cowardice. Good adaptation.

Jun 8, 2014 5:55 PM

#38

Bodomschild

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Jun 2014

207

I took that verse and song to mean that she still has feelings for Mitsu "the scent of those past days never forgotten" blah blah, but now she has found Caesar who is precious to her and wants to be there for him. It makes it seem too me that if Caesar had only died then Ichi would have gone back too Mitsu since she hasn't forgotten her feelings for him.

Jun 8, 2014 5:57 PM

#39

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Jun 2014

32

Vooo said:
Mitsuhide's role is of a coward just like in history. Always hiding behind the physical and emotional mask. He will always be remembered for his cowardice. Good adaptation.

Now you're taking things out of context. While you can argue that this defines Mitsuhide's character here, there is no indication of the historical Mitsuhide ever being remembered as a coward. In the first place, there are many theories as to why Mitsuhide betrayed Nobunaga. There are arguments by scholars that his betrayal may have been justified, owing to Nobunaga's brutality during his campaign. Don't talk about things you have no knowledge of.

Jun 8, 2014 6:00 PM

#40

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Jun 2014

32

I agree that Mitsuhide should move on from Ichihime's death. As stated by the other commentators, even if Ichihime had lived, it is unlikely that she would have reciprocated his feelings owing that she had already settled her love for Caesar. It probably would have unhinged Mitsuhide more if that were the case.

Jun 8, 2014 6:07 PM

#41

Vooo

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Jan 2013

1294

BaiHu27 said:

Vooo said:
Mitsuhide's role is of a coward just like in history. Always hiding behind the physical and emotional mask. He will always be remembered for his cowardice. Good adaptation.

Now you're taking things out of context. While you can argue that this defines Mitsuhide's character here, there is no indication of the historical Mitsuhide ever being remembered as a coward. In the first place, there are many theories as to why Mitsuhide betrayed Nobunaga. There are arguments by scholars that his betrayal may have been justified, owing to Nobunaga's brutality during his campaign. Don't talk about things you have no knowledge of.

Wow, did not know you were around during the Sengoku period...

freaking moron lol.

Jun 8, 2014 6:13 PM

#42

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May 2014

386

Bodomschild said:
I took that verse and song to mean that she still has feelings for Mitsu "the scent of those past days never forgotten" blah blah, but now she has found Caesar who is precious to her and wants to be there for him. It makes it seem too me that if Caesar had only died then Ichi would have gone back too Mitsu since she hasn't forgotten her feelings for him.

The scent part was referencing mitsu Mitsu, it says even though i will not forget mitsu... but now.. and basically talks about her love that she has developed fo caesar, she also gave the reason she fell in love with caesar, which is 'the person who looks at me honestly and whose figure i want to watch as it changes', Note that love is only used in reference to the 2nd person (caesar)

Thats a big if, Im not a fan of 'If only A had died, B would end with C' theories, its the cheapest and lamest way to resolve a love triangle, and i hate any story that uses that plot, which is why i dont want himiko to die just so nobu x jeanne can happen, its so unfair especially after last ep

and the way the song is worded, Mitsu was referenced in the past tense and caesar the present, implying she had made her decision once and for all, it wouldnt make sense for her to go back and forth.. the scene at the end when she ignored mitsu while crawling towards him pretty much shows how much her feelings has changed.. if she still had feelings for him, youd think she would respond to his cry for her name or at least acknowledge it, he was right beside her after all

jfsJun 8, 2014 6:22 PM

Jun 8, 2014 6:13 PM

#43

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Jun 2014

32

Vooo said:

BaiHu27 said:

Now you're taking things out of context. While you can argue that this defines Mitsuhide's character here, there is no indication of the historical Mitsuhide ever being remembered as a coward. In the first place, there are many theories as to why Mitsuhide betrayed Nobunaga. There are arguments by scholars that his betrayal may have been justified, owing to Nobunaga's brutality during his campaign. Don't talk about things you have no knowledge of.

Wow, did not know you were around during the Sengoku period...

freaking moron lol.

The same can be said to you. Were you there when it happened? Do you even read textbooks regarding the incident or what scholars think of it? Try harder.

Jun 8, 2014 6:18 PM

#44

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386

I wont argue about history which i lack knowledge of, but the historical mitsuhide was remembered by most people as the guy who betrayed and caused oda nobunagas death (obviously) and was killed by a peasant a few days later

Jun 8, 2014 6:22 PM

#45

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:
I wont argue about history which i lack knowledge of, but the historical mitsuhide was remembered by most people as the guy who betrayed and caused oda nobunagas death (obviously) and was killed by a peasant 13 days later

Yes he is remembered for causing Nobunaga's death, but not many records view him as a coward. There are also multiple accounts to his fate after the battle of Yamazaki. As you stated, one story was that he was killed by a peasant after the battle. Another was that he committed suicide after the battle. Yet another theorizes that he survived the battle and may have lived as a priest. None of these are confirmed.

Jun 8, 2014 6:30 PM

#46

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

Yes he is remembered for causing Nobunaga's death, but not many records view him as a coward. There are also multiple accounts to his fate after the battle of Yamazaki. As you stated, one story was that he was killed by a peasant after the battle. Another was that he committed suicide after the battle. Yet another theorizes that he survived the battle and may have lived as a priest. None of these are confirmed.

I know, but thats the most common way people remember him as (traitor who betrayed nobunaga, caused his death, died soon after)

In most fiction, Nobunaga is actually portrayed as a demonic/evil man (see samurai warriors, Onimusha series etc) so mitsus betrayal is actually quite justified like in onimusha, but there are lots of nobunaga fiction out there so IDK those are the 2 i remember

That said, wikipedia theories for his reasons for betrayal has only one that states that he betrayed nobunaga out of his ruthlessness...

The other theories generally doesnt reflect well on him... they are more or less

-Personal ambition-tired of waiting for promotion
-Personal Grudge- Nobunaga throws Mitsuhide's priceless dinnerware into the garden pond.
- Mitsuhide's mother died for Nobunaga's cause.
-Nobunaga accused Mitsuhide of superficially praising his allies after their victory over the Takeda and physically kicked him.
-because he was deceived/asked to

Anyway who cares this isnt a show that cares much about historical accuracy, honestly, its even less accurate than Oda Nobuna no yabou (thats saying something)

jfsJun 8, 2014 6:36 PM

Jun 8, 2014 6:37 PM

#47

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

Yes he is remembered for causing Nobunaga's death, but not many records view him as a coward. There are also multiple accounts to his fate after the battle of Yamazaki. As you stated, one story was that he was killed by a peasant after the battle. Another was that he committed suicide after the battle. Yet another theorizes that he survived the battle and may have lived as a priest. None of these are confirmed.

I know, but thats the most common way people remember him as (traitor who betrayed nobunaga, caused his death, died soon after)

In most fiction, Nobunaga is actually portrayed as a demonic/evil man (see samurai warriors, Onimusha series etc) so mitsus betrayal is actually quite justified like in onimusha, but there are lots of nobunaga fiction out there so IDK those are the 2 i remember

That said, wikipedia theories for his reasons for betrayal has only one that states that he betrayed nobunaga out of his ruthlessness...

The other theories generally doesnt reflect well on him... they are more or less

-Personal ambition-tired of waiting for promotion
-Personal Grudge- Nobunaga throws Mitsuhide's priceless dinnerware into the garden pond.
- Mitsuhide's mother died for Nobunaga's cause.
-Nobunaga accused Mitsuhide of superficially praising his allies after their victory over the Takeda and physically kicked him.
-because he was deceived/asked to

Anyway who cares this isnt a show that cares much about historical accuracy

I know, but my problem with Vooo's statement was that he stated it as if it were a complete fact regarding the historical Mitsuhide. No one can really say how he was viewed because there are many interpretations to his betrayal. I could care less what he thinks about Mitsuhide in this show since that one is based on opinion.

Jun 8, 2014 6:41 PM

#48

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May 2014

386

BaiHu27 said:

I know, but my problem with Vooo's statement was that he stated it as if it were a complete fact regarding the historical Mitsuhide. No one can really say how he was viewed because there are many interpretations to his betrayal. I could care less what he thinks about Mitsuhide in this show since that one is based on opinion.

Im just saying that While there are many intepretations, in GENERAL, most common people in japan (and im saying this as someone who is studying there) just know him as a historical figure who 'betrays nobunaga, caused his death, died soon after' thats just the most common intepretation and most widely accepted i dare say

Like i said, though, in general, when you mention nobunaga to jap people, they will remember something like 'cruel evil domineering warlord' though fiction stories probably plays a big part in this image of nobunaga

Jun 8, 2014 6:46 PM

#49

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Jun 2014

32

jfs said:

BaiHu27 said:

I know, but my problem with Vooo's statement was that he stated it as if it were a complete fact regarding the historical Mitsuhide. No one can really say how he was viewed because there are many interpretations to his betrayal. I could care less what he thinks about Mitsuhide in this show since that one is based on opinion.

Im just saying that While there are many intepretations, in GENERAL, most common people in japan (and im saying this as someone who is studying there) just know him as a historical figure who 'betrays nobunaga, caused his death, died soon after' thats just the most common intepretation and most widely accepted i dare say

Like i said, though, in general, when you mention nobunaga to jap people, they will remember something like 'cruel evil domineering warlord' though fiction stories probably plays a big part in this image of nobunaga

Oh its nice that you're studying there. Where, may I ask? I lived in Kyoto with my aunt for 4 years, so I'm curious where you're currently studying.

Jun 8, 2014 6:54 PM

#50