| One only needs to check my profile to see I obviously prefer violence and sexual content to cute girls doing cute things. I don't knows if I'd say seinen series have been exclusively focused on cute girls though. I mean, we still get stuff like Vinland Saga after all. |
| I'm not sure about it being exclusively CGDCT nowadays, but there's very much a reason for the advent of these kinds of SoL in more adult-oriented serializations. It actually began in the 90s with the manga Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou (my forum set) which was the beginning of the iyashikei or "healing" genre. There were two notable disasters at the time in Japan (the Kobe earthquake and Aum Shinrikyo sarin gas attacks), and these "healing" texts became much more prominent and appealing to a larger audience: most notably adults who had a firm grasp of the situations at hand, and needed a means of escaping from the harsh reality and tragedy around them. YKK was only the starting point, but it went on to inspire many of the CGDCT, slice of life, and iyashikei anime and manga today—many of which still belong to seinen serializations. This video essay by Pause and Select actually does a pretty good job of explaining the origins of these kinds of shows (it's not the main focus of the video, but it touches on it in a bit in the middle segment): This has been going on for quite some time, though. As for a more recent shift in the content of seinen serializations, my only guess is that this CGDCT type of media has generally become more popular in Japan, thus the increase of such titles. At the end of the day, I suppose they're just going to publish and/or adapt whatever sells. But I hope I was able to provide a little insight as to why these kinds of titles even exist in the seinen demographic to begin with. ^_^ |
GreyleafDec 11, 2019 1:11 AM
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
| It's just a trend, simply put, otakus watch dem cute girls and buy BDd. Violence, gore and ecchi is there but they don't make the money like the cute girls. I hope violence comes again though |
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Breadwinnerr said: (Kenpuu Denki) Berserk, Vinland Saga, Monster, Rainbow, Houseki no Kuni.Not adding anything to the topic💩 but could some of you give me some Seinen anime recommendations, I’m in a drought. Something that focuses on largely mature themes - I really like anime like that. Also, I suggest you start using the rating scale's numbers below 7 Bardees said: While mature, Fate isn't a seinen.Breadwinnerr said: Some great seinen animeNot adding anything to the topic💩 but could some of you give me some Seinen anime recommendations, I’m in a drought. Something that focuses on largely mature themes - I really like anime like that. Monster Fate zero Vinland saga 3 gatsu no lion Rainbow Kaiji But if it's not to recommend only seinen, I'd have to put Kaiba in my recommendations Mod edit: Merged double post. Please use the edit button. |
MrZawaDec 11, 2019 5:38 AM
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| No. It doesn't exclusively turn into cute girls, CGDCT. It's just, adult-oriented stuffs are less popular compare to SoL ones.There are so many recent and currently published seinen manga containing sexual and violence stuff that don't even get translated. Let alone being adapted as anime. Ah. Btw, I enjoy either. |
_Mataga_Dec 11, 2019 4:02 AM
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| I just did a cursory glance on seinen manga from this year, 2012 and 2006. The kinds of manga therein are mostly the same. When looking at the newest adaptations vs the oldest, modern adaptations come from a wider variety of genres with very few CGDCT. The problem is in your head. |
DumpsterKingDec 11, 2019 3:53 AM
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| Well I think that seinen can include series with mature content, without over sexualization or violence. Here are some examples: Bloom in to you Koi to Uso Araburu Kisetsu no Otome-domo yo While series like "Btoom, Kiseijuu, Grisaia" have what you are expecting of the seinen genre. Personally I think its fine to stretch the genre at least this much. |
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| But the people who watch these seinen cute girl shows are in their 30s :thonk: |
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| I'm glad it is the way it is. I'm a big fan. |
| In recent years publishers across all kind of media don't look at what specific demographic represent/want and most likely will choose to publish a Project that can cover as many demographics and genres, Tokyo Ghoul is a great example for that, it apples to both Genders, Adults/teens and whats in between and it covers Popular genres. Both Blade of the Immortal and assassin's pride came out this season both are considered seinen manga's but assassin's pride anime adaptation is more popular on MAL. CGDCT dons't really fall under any demographic because it can be both Shounen or Seinen it depends on what magazine the manga was published on. |
Shoko664Dec 11, 2019 4:34 AM
MySweetLucifer said: Unpopular Opinion: Demographics don't say anything about the contents of a particular work. Sure, yes. But, If you're familiar with seinen manga and its magazine, you at least have a clue what to expect. |
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| I personally am all for it, I love seinen anime, but learning that seinen is mainly a demographic for manga readers (older guys 16 - 34) and leans mostly towards violence, maybe i need to refine what I mean. I like CGDCT, but i don't want it taking over all seinen anime shows. I really like shows with the seinen tag like Kaguya Sama: Love is War, Non Non Biyori, One Punch Man, Vinland Saga, Kiss X Sis, B Gata H Kei, where sexual issues, and violence, tend to viewed more realistically. In a show like Non Non Biyori you get CGDCT (apart from Hotaru I'm not sure if any of them are cute, just normal girls imo) but in a fun way. I'm always struggling to find good seinen shows, I was looking to use a different verb, like 'mature content' shows, but seinen is just easier. |
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| Because Japan realized that adult content is not mature... |
| This year alone has Vinland Saga, Kaguya-sama, One Punch Man, Blade of the Immortal and No Guns Life. None of those are CGDCT. While it's true seinen manga struggle with getting anime adaptations more than shounen, I've never heard anyone say it has been reduced to CGDT series only. Smells like bait. And I doubt they dominate the seinen sphere, I think CGDT gets serialized more elsewhere. Novels in general offer a variety of content, it's just a trendy genre that can coexist fine with other genres. As for my preference, I enjoyed Azumanga Daioh, but Demon Girl Next Door from this year was terrible to my taste, it was boring and felt really poor, like you could tell there are dozens of better executed ones who strive for more quality. Its characters and comedy felt too simplistic and formulaic. If LWA and Girls' Last Tour count, I enjoyed those as well. I prefer SoL stories to be more drama focused though, serves my taste better. edit: as a toxic male of course I prefer epics with a grand scale such as Berserk, Kingdom and Vinland Saga over fucking CGDCT |
EsquirtitDec 11, 2019 7:28 AM
| poop |
| @Daniel_Naumov Well, it's published in a seinen magazine and it's not a CGDT. |
| poop |
| I would say that you probably didn't really watch many modern Seinens if you think it's all CGDCT stuff. There are plenty of Seinens that don't fit that in any way or form. I wouldn't be even sure that all old-school Seinens were dark and bloody either, but I didn't watch too many anime form the 80s/90s so I can't be sure about that. Either way modern Seinen has plenty of anime that deal with adult themes and aren't CGDCT. I'm not gonna name them since plenty of them were already named in this thread. Nonetheless if you ask why CGDCT Seinens exist then explanation is simple and that is that Seinen basically only means adult demographics and CGDCT is a good way to wind down after long day in work. Which makes some of those shows Seinen if their sources come out in Seinen magazines which given that is perfectly acceptable and understandable imo. Given that dark Seinens still exist I wouldn't say that it changed per se, but rather the selection became wider. There may be some reasons why there is overall lesser amount of darker anime, but that is something that happened across the whole spectrum and is outside of just Seinen-related discussion. I would say it might be related to greater popularity of the mediums as well as anime/manga becoming more business-oriented as well as overall saturation of the market, but there could be other reasons as well. Daniel_Naumov said: which is not even a "seinen" and centers itself around several kids in a power-fantasy. With slight twisting of myths. Nostalgik said: While mature, Fate isn't a seinen. But if it's not to recommend only seinen, I'd have to put Kaiba in my recommendations While Fate/Stay Night and most other Fates are Shounen, Fate/Zero is certainly Seinen-ish. Though I guess that depends on how strict we are with definition of Seinen. But if we assume it can in this day and age extend outside of manga and assume it generally means adult demographics then it would count as such imo. |
MrZawaDec 11, 2019 5:41 AM
| @MySweetLucifer Yes, it matters because this thread refers to the demographic and not the loosely defined 'genre'. As for your question, I didn't mean to imply any of that. I listed 5 seinen titles and Daniel disagreed with Kaguya-sama being seinen (or he meant that it's a CGDCT actually), so that's why I brought it up. @Daniel_Naumov Now you're just taking the piss at the "cute girl crowd". It's not a CGDT because of its content, it's a psychological romantic comedy. It's suited for mature audiences because there's enough to get out if it as an adult, but anyone can enjoy it really. The @ works fine, the blue shit just disappears after an edit, but comes back after refreshing |
| poop |
| K-on happened. It was the beginning of the end. |
 Life is a despicable endurance race |
| @Daniel_Naumov I don't care, but others might. Though I don't see the point of generalizing people based on what they enjoy in entertainment. You don't like it either when people call DITF a shallow waifu bait anime and that its fans are retarded shippers harassing creators. |
| poop |
| 1. Seinen anime demographic was never massively into anime with extreme violence and sex - more of a niche thing. Yes you can find enough such manga even nowadays but less such anime. Look at old and popular seinen animes like Cobra (1982), Golgo 13 and Lupin III (1971). They subdue the source and have violence and sex presented not very differently from what you can see on James Bond, Shaft ect. 2. There was this weird psychological concept that you could vent all your negative energy with horror movies, screaming out loud your frustration when nobody can hear you and fantasizing about doing nasty stuff. It can work for a while and in small quantities but the more you vent this way the more aggressive and explosive person you become. No way near to the relaxed and creative member of society you want to pass for. The better way is simply to chill out and have pleasant activities thus came Iyashikei which works way better and faster. This is my theory about the rise of MOE, CGDCT and "comfy". 3. CGDCT is way easier to write, draw and animate than hyperviolnce. In other words anime is vanilla and even more nowadays. |
alshuDec 11, 2019 6:42 AM
| CGDCT isn't a seinen only phenomenon though, I thought it was a trend across niches. I was going to say it could be easier to merchandise but I have no idea about that industry whatsoever. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| demographics should be treated more as a "rule of thumb" |
| Seinen was never good. I hate both old and new seinen works, and I'm sick and tired of all these seinen adaptations coming out these days. |
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| Well, series like Gakkougurashi, Magical Girl Raising Project, and Made in Abyss are just combining these two elements lol so you can have your cake and eat it too. xD |
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Chiibi said: Well, series like Gakkougurashi, Magical Girl Raising Project, and Made in Abyss are just combining these two elements lol so you can have your cake and eat it too. xD But, those anime are absolutely horrible. |
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Seiya said: It's not like she said anything about their quality, only that they are about cute girls doing dark and violent things. :PChiibi said: Well, series like Gakkougurashi, Magical Girl Raising Project, and Made in Abyss are just combining these two elements lol so you can have your cake and eat it too. xD But, those anime are absolutely horrible. |
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| I think that Japanese people just changed their taste a lil during the years and are now craving some fluffy cute girls they can't get irl |
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Seiya said: Chiibi said: Well, series like Gakkougurashi, Magical Girl Raising Project, and Made in Abyss are just combining these two elements lol so you can have your cake and eat it too. xD But, those anime are absolutely horrible. Two are so-so but I love Made in Abyss; it's an epic adventure full of imagination and creativity and lots of other people love it too. |
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Chiibi said: Two are so-so but I love Made in Abyss; it's an epic adventure full of imagination and creativity and lots of other people love it too. Made in Abyss was too violent for me to properly enjoy. I will not be watching the sequel movie when it comes out. |
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Seiya said: Chiibi said: Two are so-so but I love Made in Abyss; it's an epic adventure full of imagination and creativity and lots of other people love it too. Made in Abyss was too violent for me to properly enjoy. I will not be watching the sequel movie when it comes out. And I totally get that. Episode 10 almost made me puke. xD But I was too engrossed in the story and characters to turn back. Now I'm hooked on the manga that's even more gruesome...but I can't stop. Indeed, it's not a series for everyone. |
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Nostalgik said: I'm fully in the seinen demograpic, feel free to consult my list, I try to pick "mature" and/or give lower ratings when a pick didn't appeal to me. Breadwinnerr said: Not adding anything to the topic💩 but could some of you give me some Seinen anime recommendations Bardees said: Monster, Fate zero, Vinland saga,,3 gatsu no lion, Rainbow, Kaiji Breadwinnerr said: Oh, Fate/Zero is one of those shows which to me feel like they were written by a 13 year old pretending to be an adult. There are some more, e.g. Baccano! and Elfen Lied. Neither of them appeals to me the least, the attempt to look mature actually comes over cringy for me. Don't flame please, I already know it's a minority opinion.While mature, Fate isn't a seinen. I'd divide seinen shows into five categories. All examples below are tagged seinen on MAL, and I've watched all so I can include my rating. Please note that many shows are very mature, but not based on a seinen magazine manga and thus are missing, e.g. Texhnolyze (original) or Nana (shoujo). Shounen++, which is pretty much shounen action with increased sex and violence PG13 would not allow for.
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inimDec 11, 2019 9:00 AM
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- Of course but I am not talking about that. - Demon Slayer and AoT are not that gory in their anime incarnation (don't know about the manga). Esquirtit said: maybe you're referring to the really weird hyperviolent shit. Yes, people were talking about that in 80s-90s also having a dummy of your boss in the basement for torturing...very good for your psychological state they said. Very relaxing. Well not really but people believed that (because people are dumb like that). Esquirtit said: But even then, equating seinen with horror movies is weird, u sound like a boomer hating More like western anime fans searching for exotic cases and trying to pass them for the norm "You see, our hobby is the raddest!". Also you are mixing the things here. My original point was that seinen anime wasn't that violent in the first place. Iyashikei is a sign that the world culture went more towards relaxation, not that the japaneses went from borderline serial killers to wallflowers. Esquirtit said: Even Berserk is moe and has wholesome moments! Aren't those for mood whiplash and brake the cutie purposes? |
alshuDec 11, 2019 8:13 AM
AkaneManiac said: Ok, fellas, time for some real talk here! When did the demographic that was known for extreme violence and sexual content turn into exclusively cute girls doing cute things, and why do you think that happened? Which one do you prefer? Was it a good thing? I'm genuinely curious about this topic! I don't entirely understand why you think people in the "seinen" demographic would only like shows with extreme violence and sexual content. If anything, once you cross a certain line a show or manga just becomes schlocky and devoid of any higher meaning beyond seeing bad guys explode in a shower of blood and guts. From what I understand "seinen" is simply a descriptor for shows that either have deeper themes than most shows that are aimed at a younger audience or are more focused on aspects of life that most don't experience until they are adults. Stuff like having a career (Planetes) or being in the military/police (Ghost in the Shell) or being in college (Genshiken). That's not to say that shows aimed at a younger demographic can't also focus on this stuff, but I think "seinen" shows try to take a more sophisticated and nuanced approach to these topics. In my mind, if you go too far with violence then, eventually, it becomes mindless schlock. If you go too far with sex then, eventually, it becomes softcore porn. In essence, I can't imagine anything more childish than when something like sex or violence is used to titilate the senses rather than to enhance the story or the themes of a show. As for the "cute girls" part of your post, I have two things to say. First, I don't think its as prevalent as you seem to think it is. Looking at just the last five years, the shows that have aired and been tagged as "seinen" by MAL seem to have a pretty wide level of stylistic diversity. Second, I imagine, at least for some people, that watching cute girls dealing with life's harsh realities can be more interesting than if you have characters that actually have some actual resemblence to real people. Now that I think about it, I think this begs a question. What, exactly, is your definition of "cute girls doing cute things"? Just to get this out of the way, I don't think a show having a female protagonist or even an all-female cast means that it instantly qualifies as a CGDCT. One last thing. Going back to your first point, I obviously don't know anyone in the manga or anime industry, but I imagine it can be a bit creatively stifling to only create stuff with extreme violence and sexual content (although one wonders how extreme it can actually get when there's a whole genre called "hentai"). I think adult-oriented stuff shines best when it tones down a bit on the the aforementioned stuff in order to say something interesting about the world or Japanese society or history or whatever else. If you have too much violence or sex then those interesting ideas can easily be sidelined and fall to the wayside. Of course, that's not to say I don't think we can't or shouldn't have shows like you want. I just don't think it can simply be boiled down to a formula of "seinen = more blood and more sex". I think that's a fundamentally childish way of looking at the world and media. |
SithSteelDec 11, 2019 8:52 AM
alshu said: - Of course but I am not talking about that. - Demon Slayer and AoT are not that gory in their anime incarnation (don't know about the manga). I found Demon Slayer disgusting at times, especially the scenes with Muzan but even this one is horrible (starts at 1:40) alshu said: Esquirtit said: maybe you're referring to the really weird hyperviolent shit. Yes, people were talking about that in 80s-90s also having a dummy of your boss in the basement for torturing...very good for your psychological state they said. Very relaxing. Well not really but people believed that (because people are dumb like that). I watch bondage porn before going to school. alshu said: Esquirtit said: But even then, equating seinen with horror movies is weird, u sound like a boomer hating More like western anime fans searching for exotic cases and trying to pass them for the norm "You see, our hobby is the raddest!". Also you are mixing the things here. My original point was that seinen anime wasn't that violent in the first place. Iyashikei is a sign that the world culture went more towards relaxation, not that the japaneses went from borderline serial killers to wallflowers. Yes, my comment wasn't that serious, I knew you were talking about the hyperviolent series and not all seinen. alshu said: Esquirtit said: Even Berserk is moe and has wholesome moments! Aren't those for mood whiplash and brake the cutie purposes? Anything can be moe, Femto can be my moe husbando angel because realisically he saved the world... It has good romantic moments I would describe as wholesome, but yeah some stuff is for gags and mood wiplash |
EsquirtitDec 11, 2019 8:36 AM
| poop |
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