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Oct 5, 2019 9:49 AM
#1
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Apr 2018
6
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.
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Oct 5, 2019 9:52 AM
#2

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Jan 2009
92511
>They took Trigger's DitF

completely wrong lol CloverWorks and their director is the one that owns Darling in the FranXX the only thing Trigger did is some few episodes and some pre-production stuff since the director of Darling in the FranXX was a former Gainax animator too just like most of the big guns of Trigger so they are friends but Darling in the FranXX and most of its story and faults are done by CloverWorks alone
Oct 5, 2019 9:53 AM
#3
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Jul 2018
564612
Automatically referring to ufotable, let me guess your standards for this is fate/zero lol
This is a gacha game adaptation, a fan service to those who play fgo. Next.
Oct 5, 2019 9:54 AM
#4
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Jul 2015
674
ToiletPaperRoll said:

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people).


I hope you don't actually believe this, DItF was mainly produced by A-1 Koenji which changed its name to Cloverworks during the production, Trigger did like 3 episodes and they were not as good as the rest animation wise and for the story you have to look the director and writer both who are not even working here beside they are already adapting an existing material.
Oct 5, 2019 9:59 AM
#5
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Mar 2018
68
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.
Oct 5, 2019 10:00 AM
#6

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Jan 2009
92511
and also all Fate anime shows so far are anime adaptations meaning they already have a source material so the stories of Fate anime shows depend on those source materials
Oct 5, 2019 10:02 AM
#7

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Sep 2018
439
Alex82829290 said:
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.

We must've seen 2 entirely different adaptations, if you're talking about tpn.
Jolyne Kuujou + Steel Ball Run Universe = Billie Eillish
Oct 5, 2019 10:06 AM
#8

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Oct 2014
2837
most likely not, but if they somehow do, good
Oct 5, 2019 10:13 AM
#9
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Jul 2018
564612
well i heard apocrypha had a shit source material to begin with so no surprise there. ditf was also pretty meh to begin with whether trigger had part of it or not. i think they'll end up doing okayish unless it ends up as a one punch man season 2
Oct 5, 2019 10:20 AM

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Jul 2013
4690
I didn't think it was a "1" like most of the fandom thinks since it had its good points like Jeanne but Apocrypha couldn't be saved unless they revamped the whole thing anyway so it's not like A-1 Pictures could so much about it lol.
Oct 5, 2019 10:40 AM

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179
DiTF is definitely Trigger show inspire, just look at the ending, it's set in space.
Oct 5, 2019 10:47 AM

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79
DitF was a original series. This one is not, the story already exist, the studio is not in charge of making new stuffs up. So no, no lulwhereinspacenow this time around

At the very least A-1 and Cloverworks did a solid job animating it (DitF and Apocrypha). They just need to keep it up/do even better. Remember all those sakugafest battle from Apo? Those are A-1/Cloverworks doing. Apocrypha's problem is that the main mc (Jean and Sieg) are boring cardboard, especially compared to the other master/servants pairing which has better writing.
Oct 5, 2019 10:51 AM
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Oct 2019
50
Episode 0 was pretty well done and they managed to show the summary of the core aspects of Mashu's character and her struggles quite well despite a short time. This is something for those who enjoyed the story of FGO than appealing to a wider audience after all. Let's just hope the choreography of fights isn't as bad as Apocrypha but that was A-1.
Oct 5, 2019 11:08 AM

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Jan 2015
15061
Alex82829290 said:
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.

Amazing adaptation? Lmao adaptation wise TPN was god awful
Oct 5, 2019 11:20 AM
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Mar 2018
380
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.



They did great with promised neverland
Oct 5, 2019 11:52 AM

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Dec 2017
79
Xenocrisi said:
Amazing adaptation? Lmao adaptation wise TPN was god awful


uh no, god awful in what way exactly?
Oct 5, 2019 12:33 PM

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Aug 2014
519
>2019
>still talking about "studio" instead of the actual people working on a project
>"ufotable = Fate" argument

Yeah, nice bait.
And if it's not bait, I'm really sorry for you.
Oct 5, 2019 12:39 PM

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May 2012
6847
I loved Apocrypha

I don't see how they ruined it ???

Franxx was not that good because of the story and ending. It was not bad though
Oct 5, 2019 1:41 PM
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Jan 2018
71
Xenocrisi said:
Alex82829290 said:
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.

Amazing adaptation? Lmao adaptation wise TPN was god awful

Lmao how was TPN’s adaptation god awful? The director chosen for the project may have maid some iffy choices (such as having the characters speak out in the open and removing most of the internal monologues), the pacing may have been somewhat rushed (they were only given 12 episodes to work with so cutting out stuff was necessary) and they should’ve chosen a better art director because those bgs were terrible. But other than that the adaptation was pretty solid. The character designs were nice, the animation was quite good (especially in episodes 1,3,5,11 and 12), it managed to match the tone of the manga, the storyboards took creative liberties from the manga instead of following panel for panel and the episodes were well directed for the most part (especially episode 1,6,10 and 12). Best part is that they did all of this while being short on staff because most of the best Cloverworks affiliated directors and animators were working on FGO
Oct 5, 2019 1:43 PM
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Jan 2018
71
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.
Please tell me you’re a troll because this has got to be one of the most stupid comments I’ve ever seen on MAL.
Oct 5, 2019 1:47 PM
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Dec 2017
90
But, DiTF wasn't wasnt cloverworks are you stupid
Oct 5, 2019 1:53 PM

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Feb 2013
1340
Trigger ruined it you idiot. And look for staff instead of just studio, you moron.
Oct 5, 2019 2:02 PM

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Aug 2014
519
It's not even Trigger that ruined it, since they took the blame but weren't involved much in the second half.

But yeah he's either trolling or a a lost cause.
Oct 5, 2019 2:09 PM

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Nov 2016
68
Alex82829290 said:
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.

Please tell me you are joking. TPN's adaptation was a nightmare. They ruined every good and well written aspect of the arc and made it look like a generic horror shounen with plot holes.
Oct 5, 2019 5:25 PM
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Nov 2015
535
Why people fall to this bait post.
Oct 5, 2019 6:00 PM

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Sep 2016
330
From the results in episode 1, I don't think this anime will be as bad as F/A or F/E, at least in action scene aspect
Oct 5, 2019 6:51 PM
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Jul 2018
564612
Deminus said:
Alex82829290 said:
Wrong. It's the director that counts not the studio. Also they're the one who did the promised neverland's amazing adaptation and this seems promising too judging it by the trailers and ep 0 masterful execution.

Please tell me you are joking. TPN's adaptation was a nightmare. They ruined every good and well written aspect of the arc and made it look like a generic horror shounen with plot holes.

It is a generic shounen horror, not to mention they go way too ham on the whole "muh friendship will solve everything #NotAllDemons" thing.
Oct 5, 2019 6:57 PM

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Dec 2018
500
lol complaining bout a studio, darling wasn't ever gonna be good was it, i suggest watching to the end before deciding and being ignorant. First of all, studio is just a small part of the anime making, the staff that are put on the project usually determine the success of the anime if it is done well.
Oct 5, 2019 6:58 PM
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Aug 2017
42
Escaethorne said:
Deminus said:

Please tell me you are joking. TPN's adaptation was a nightmare. They ruined every good and well written aspect of the arc and made it look like a generic horror shounen with plot holes.

It is a generic shounen horror, not to mention they go way too ham on the whole "muh friendship will solve everything #NotAllDemons" thing.


Hello, this is for Fate, not Neverland. If you have a problem with that adaptation, go talk at their page, not here.
Oct 5, 2019 6:58 PM
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Oct 2017
32
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.


Isn't the original source of Apocrypha itself already bad and the one who in charged the screeplay part is the author itself??
Oct 5, 2019 8:47 PM
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Jul 2018
564612
CYCLOPSCORE said:
Escaethorne said:

It is a generic shounen horror, not to mention they go way too ham on the whole "muh friendship will solve everything #NotAllDemons" thing.


Hello, this is for Fate, not Neverland. If you have a problem with that adaptation, go talk at their page, not here.

Sorry to get off-topic in this quality shit-throwing thread lol.
Oct 5, 2019 8:50 PM

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Aug 2018
977
Seriously people complains a lot these days and they complain everything lol

The first ep was great btw, the animation and pacing were so smooth
B O C C H I  S W E E P
Oct 5, 2019 9:01 PM
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Oct 2019
1
[quote=ToiletPaperRoll message=58469058]There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

The first episodes of DitF: Trigger were amazing, they never let me down.
Last episodes: A1 / CW broke DitF :). You should know it's a collaborative project that Trigger still controls, the best episodes of the first half are all done by A1 / CW. And more than Fate / Aprocrypha is not the worst fate part, it's more than ten thousand times better than the Last Encode of the shaft so stop it.
Oct 5, 2019 9:51 PM
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Jun 2017
94
I suggest you look and search for every staff that works on this project
Cloverworks had this project at the top of their works the promised neverland and Bunny girl senpai were a side project for them yet the staff did a great job

Before you blame the studio ignorantly, you must search of who wrote the script and the storyboard. Takeuchi Takashi done the design (the original designer of fate characters), kinako Nasu (the creator of fate) wrote both the script and the storyboard, and the staff themselves were giving a lot of time to deliver this one with quality. The director Tofushami Akai promised that they will make the fans of the game and the only fans satisfied. Not to mention the smartest thing they did with episode 0 when they hired another director (Clannad director) staffs to do ep0 whole saving the staffs and the director of the main project.

I’m not gonna insult anybody, but before you lay down and rub your belly and whale on studios, you must do a research for the staffs and animator then judge upon that
Oct 5, 2019 9:51 PM

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Aug 2019
212
I
EMP-511 said:
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.



They did great with promised neverland
i think not great. But good adaptation. I've been following Promised neverland manga before it get an adaptation. I like the anime but i feel strange because they turn deep pshycological manga into shallow horror anime.
Oct 5, 2019 10:05 PM

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3183
I don't think there will be Fate franchise better than ufotable one but that does not mean every non ufotable Fate is bad. Apocrypha is pretty good.
Oct 5, 2019 10:05 PM

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Jul 2017
1395
The dude above automatically referring to Fate Zero REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anyways... Apocrypha is a trainwreck meh show because source material isn't all that great like FSN. But while I'm slightly worried about Babylonia's sub-par animation, namely in part due to the jarring 3d animation, I'm still optimistic after reading about the production schedules and the staffs involved and such.


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Oct 5, 2019 11:27 PM

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ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.


>Carnival Phantasm
>Lord El-Melloi
>Apocrypha
>Prisma Illya

And yes, I still do not understand what people dislike about Apocrypha. Shit was cool.
You all need to watch Nami.

Oct 5, 2019 11:59 PM

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Feb 2019
1454
abystoma2 said:
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.
And yes, I still do not understand what people dislike about Apocrypha. Shit was cool.
People dislike Apocrypha due to the Pacing & also, too many characters that didn't give them enough focus to really develop them.



It’s okay to look back at the past, just don’t stare too long

Oct 6, 2019 2:17 AM

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519
abystoma2 said:
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.


>Carnival Phantasm
>Lord El-Melloi
>Apocrypha
>Prisma Illya

And yes, I still do not understand what people dislike about Apocrypha. Shit was cool.


Personal opinion: I think Apocrypha (as a LN) is the weakest Fate spin-off, but that still means that, to me, it's like a 7/10 in a franchise that is mainly comprised of 8/10 and 9/10.
So, not really that bad.
Although I do have some problems with the main duo and how they took time and pages of content away from all the other really good (and imho better) characters.
Regarding the anime adaptation, I really disliked a lot of choices they made, and some of them I think are literally unjustifiable (like skipping Shirou's backstory, which is like both an important lore dump that helps understand in which timeline Apocrypha is, and the literal explanation for why the story antagonist does what he does).

Still, I'm glad the Apo anime exists tho, since the last five episodes were good, and episode 22 was (and still is) one of the biggest sakuga episodes in the industry, with a lot of new names doing their best. That episode alone is way above standard ufotable quality imho, and it's... just important. For the series and for the anime industry in general, I think.

(sorry, I rambled a bit lol)
Oct 6, 2019 3:15 AM

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5880
inb4 this thread gets locked
Oct 6, 2019 3:19 AM
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Oct 2019
50
ovo4 said:
Xenocrisi said:

Amazing adaptation? Lmao adaptation wise TPN was god awful

Lmao how was TPN’s adaptation god awful? The director chosen for the project may have maid some iffy choices (such as having the characters speak out in the open and removing most of the internal monologues), the pacing may have been somewhat rushed (they were only given 12 episodes to work with so cutting out stuff was necessary) and they should’ve chosen a better art director because those bgs were terrible. But other than that the adaptation was pretty solid. The character designs were nice, the animation was quite good (especially in episodes 1,3,5,11 and 12), it managed to match the tone of the manga, the storyboards took creative liberties from the manga instead of following panel for panel and the episodes were well directed for the most part (especially episode 1,6,10 and 12). Best part is that they did all of this while being short on staff because most of the best Cloverworks affiliated directors and animators were working on FGO

Not that faithful to the Manga. Promised Neverland uses information presentation to the viewer to get them immersed so some parts being cut might not go well with fans. And some scenes drag on a bit too much. Plus facial expressions of Emma aren't as good as the manga. Still, it's not a bad adaptation at all. It has plus points like OST and cinematography at many points. I'm hoping 2nd season might be better. Especially since it will have my favorite arc in the story.
Oct 6, 2019 3:23 AM
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99
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.

Remember Apocrypha trainwreck? It was made by A-1. Guess what, CloverWorks is just former A-1... They took Trigger's DitF and messed it up pretty badly at the end (yep, episodes 16-24 were churned out by those people). Persona 5 adaptation was mediocre too. Basically, they're only good at making slice-of-life anime. They can't handle action shows like Ufotable does.


This anime will be good otherwise the fanbase will rage. Give this studio a chance pls.

Also this chapter is way better than Apocrypha.
Oct 6, 2019 3:32 AM
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Oct 2018
53
Apocrypha sorce material is not good, but anime animation quality level is fine up to good quality. Just look karna vs sieg battle which is pretty good in my opinion.

Babylon in other hand had good source material (I would says amazing if you follows story of babylonia sigularity) so I think this opinion is exgragating. So far, eps 1 is good, story pace is fine, the bad comment mostly just no sense stuff that not story & animation quality related stuff.
Oct 6, 2019 3:43 AM

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Aug 2013
1524
Darling in the Franxx was just shit in general. I'm actually surprised by how well the animation flowed in this...especially if you've seen the animation of the final season of Fairy Tail. I'm hoping Cloverworks continues to grow and get better with each title. They have a lot of potential and can use said potential to grow now that they are an independent entity from A-1. Granted they are still a subsidiary, but still.
Don't believe the hype.
Oct 6, 2019 3:51 AM
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Oct 2019
50
abystoma2 said:
ToiletPaperRoll said:
There's never been a good Fate anime from a studio other than Ufotable.


>Carnival Phantasm
>Lord El-Melloi
>Apocrypha
>Prisma Illya

And yes, I still do not understand what people dislike about Apocrypha. Shit was cool.

Fate at it's core was never about cute girls, badass heroes and flashy fights in a grail war. Those were just bi-products of the plot. Fate and many of Nasuverse works in general were liked for their characterization, clash of ideals between characters and interesting philosophical/psychological themes. Apocrypha felt more like a battle shonen that tried to use the fate name to sell just another generic "hero saves the day and gets the girl" story. Many of the characters are inconsistent to totally out of character (Jeanne due to how the story handled her "romance"). It tried to be more quantity than quality while trying to be like Fate/Zero instead of building up its own identity, all the while trying to appeal to a more casual audience. And the way it handled Amakusa Shirou, arguably one of the most interesting antagonists in the franchise due to his wish which was not evil, was also really questionable. They just point him evil and beat him up because the bland Gary Stu MC needs to win and ignore his perspective completely. So to the core fandom (by core fandom, I mean those who appreciate fate for what it is and not see it as another cool action-romance anime) feel like it basterdized the Franchise like how Godzilla fans reacted to Godzilla 1998 made by Roland Emmerich for ruining the core of the titular monster (So much so, that TOHO brought back the rights to have the American Godzilla be destroyed by the OG in Godzilla Final Wars very easily).

And I was merely talking about Apocrypha in general from the LN. The source was bad but the anime adaptation was EVEN WORSE for removing many important internal monologues and important scenes along with other unwelcome changes. The fights felt much better handled in the novel compared to the anime while there was heavy censorship in many scenes to appeal to a more younger and mainstream audience like scenes of the fall of Shimabara rebellion from Amakusa's past and Jack the Ripper's origin which was a brilliant and really thought provoking scene in the novel that showed how a piece of bread caused a chain reaction of deaths in London. Feels bad when a shonen like Kimetsu No Yaiba feels much more gritty and violent than Fate/Apocrypha. It felt more like something for casual fans who enjoy stuff like Asterisk War or SAO than anything Nasuverse. Heck even FGO main plot has much more with Mash's existential nihilism and her clash of ideals with "Solomon" at the end of first arc which fans really loved.
Oct 6, 2019 4:19 AM

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236
Yeah, and Shaft/Akiyuki Shinbou did Last Encore, which is the worst Fate ever created, though it's an acclaimed studio, proving anyone can fail not just A-1 picture.

I consider Deen's Fate/Stay Night and Troyca's Lord El Melloi also good spin-offs (I know people can feel the opposite) but still we can give any studio a chance if they know their shit.

(I don't support Cloverworks tho, they made the insufferable Bunny Girl senpai)
Oct 6, 2019 4:40 AM
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2860
DITF is an original series meaning it has no source material being followed. Thats why during the mid story they have a hard time making some plot...

FGO has a source material so what they need is just to follow the route or the direction of the story
Oct 6, 2019 6:52 AM
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Rebelblade71 said:
ovo4 said:

Lmao how was TPN’s adaptation god awful? The director chosen for the project may have maid some iffy choices (such as having the characters speak out in the open and removing most of the internal monologues), the pacing may have been somewhat rushed (they were only given 12 episodes to work with so cutting out stuff was necessary) and they should’ve chosen a better art director because those bgs were terrible. But other than that the adaptation was pretty solid. The character designs were nice, the animation was quite good (especially in episodes 1,3,5,11 and 12), it managed to match the tone of the manga, the storyboards took creative liberties from the manga instead of following panel for panel and the episodes were well directed for the most part (especially episode 1,6,10 and 12). Best part is that they did all of this while being short on staff because most of the best Cloverworks affiliated directors and animators were working on FGO

Not that faithful to the Manga. Promised Neverland uses information presentation to the viewer to get them immersed so some parts being cut might not go well with fans. And some scenes drag on a bit too much. Plus facial expressions of Emma aren't as good as the manga. Still, it's not a bad adaptation at all. It has plus points like OST and cinematography at many points. I'm hoping 2nd season might be better. Especially since it will have my favorite arc in the story.


They only got 12 episodes to adapt 37 chapters (including a 54 page chapter 1) from a dialogue/monologue heavy manga so the director and series composer had cut some stuff no matter how much nuance it added to the manga. You can’t blame Cloverworks for this because they weren’t the ones who chose the episode count. Facial expressions were never going to be as good as the manga because:
1) They can’t match demizu’s art (the character designer blatantly stated this before the series even aired so instead he opted to compensate for it with strong character acting).
2) You are comparing a manga (where a mangaka only has to draw a nice panel once) to an anime (where the animators have to draw that same panel atleast 8 times just to get it to move) so of course the facial expressions in the manga will look better. I know it’s not a perfect adaptation but fans should atleast know that anime and manga are two different mediums((with different strengths and weaknesses) and know that not everything that works well in manga will transition nicely in anime format.

That being said, s2 will probably be more like s1 from a production standpoint because most of the good Cloverworks affiliated staff are still on FGO. From a narrative standpoint it’ll probably be 24-25 eps and end with the goldy pond stuff (that’s roughly 60 chapters so expect some stuff to be cut but not as much as s1)
Oct 6, 2019 7:47 AM

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Feb 2019
665
Cloverworks did not ruin darling, it was trigger, whether you want to admit it or not that plot twist of the last section is very attached to the trigger/gainax style, fate babylonia would say that the problem is not the production because it is quite good, the problem is the story they decide to create the which in both series is bad, but it's only the fault of the writter
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