| That's not to say that western movies or media is bad, just that it seems in general a lot more watered down to me. I feel like Japanese media, both anime and live action is just written a lot better and more realistic. The conflicts tend to be more internal and relatable for the audience. Even films like Kimi No Na Wa which are obviously really fantastical, still offer realistic and relatable emotions for the audience. That feeling of longing and nostalgia that you can't quite explain. Then you've got my personal favourite work of ART of ALL time in any category, Koe No Katachi. The storytelling is just so rich and layered and is an accurate representation of the bullying that disabled and handicapped kids go through, self acceptance, forgiveness and how hard it can be to truly make friends, etc. When you compare that to the average stuff that comes out of Hollywood or Atlanta these days, it just is leagues ahead. Personally, I feel that Japanese storytelling tends to focus on the harsh reality of life a lot more than western media. A lot of this comes down to Japanese culture and mentality( doing a PhD in Political Sci focusing on Japan next year) Even though you love someone and jump through these hoops, things might not work out like in some of Shinkai's films or even though you want to stay with someone forever and protect them, people die, it's inevitable. Anime tends to show this side of life a lot more and how characters cope with it and ultimately grow from it. Learning to live again, learning what it means to love, accepting that life, while difficult, is still worth living, etc. These are all things I've learnt from watching anime, most notable my favourite two I want to Eat your Pancreas and Koe No Katachi, but these themes are present in many of my top 10. This is my opinion, I welcome discussion around this. |
 |
| I think Japanese storytelling in anime tends to put a little more focus on some of the emotional and atmospheric elements compared to American storytelling in film and TV. But this isn't to say that Japanese (or American) storytelling always (or never) has these elements, nor that Japanese (or American) always does these elements better (or worse). I don't think one is superior to the other. There are many anime shows that have interested me, but there also many anime shows that are unappealing to me. On the other hand, American film/TV productions can be quite impactful too, even though I rarely watch them these days. I probably have a preference for anime over the usual American TV shows because of my personal taste for emotional and atmospheric elements, but I still think that both approaches have their own merit and their own times to shine, because art isn't simply about running through a checklist of tropes and techniques. |
GlennMagusHarveySep 8, 2019 7:12 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I would generally disagree. There is a huge variation in the quality of writers from show to show that it would be difficult to qualify the storytelling ability of the whole industry. In the OP above, you compared Koe no Katachi to "average stuff that comes out of Hollywood or Atlanta", but isn't that an unfair comparison? You should compare it to the best, not the average, of Hollywood. If you compare an average anime to Koe no Katachi, I'm sure you'll feel that they have many shortcomings in comparison. In terms of realism (in characterization) and focus on "harsh realities of life", that also varies, but I feel most shows have a rather positive and idealistic outlook on life. There are shows with fleshed out characters, like March Comes in Like a Lion, and there are shows with extreme personalities like the current Dr. Stone, to bewildering characters like members of a harem who fall hard for a seemingly regular guy. Western Media has some incredible stuff too; like Lord of the Rings trilogy for Fantasy, Bourdain's shows for food/travel, Chapelle Show for comedy, Stargate for sci-fi, Hey Arnold for slice of life, etc. For some of those shows, I would have none or a few (could count on one hand) anime that I would prefer over them. |
GraumannSep 8, 2019 7:20 PM
 |
| What I always say to ANYONE who makes such statements: No. Japanese storytelling is no better nor more realistic than western media. Western media can be just as realistic and relatable as anime. If you don't believe so, it simply means that you don't watch enough western media, and thus hold a bias towards anime. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Most of modern western cartoons are just sjw propaganda and childish. It's a shame cuz I really liked old cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog or Samurai Jack. Now they're just a mere shadow of what they once were. There're some good cartoons like The Amazing World of Gumball or Regular Show but when I saw propaganda shows like Big Mouth, the She-ra reboot they make me sick. Japanese storytelling in anime is far better than their American counterparts. They care about their characters, treat woman as a woman and there is a good concept (badly executed or not). Modern western cartoons suck, they're not popular as anime and this is a reality that we must accept. Western films ,usually, are a mix of modern western cartoons and effort while I didn't watched a lot of japanese live actions, I think that Japan doesn't know how to do a movie. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
| Not depicting the harsh reality of life, my ass. I guess that's why japan/anime has so much media about some of the harshest topics like crime and drug abuse and political corruption. I mean I love anime, but when I want something gritty with a harsh outlook on life, tackling some of the most severe problems societies face today, I find western media to be a much better option for the most part. Anime is largely an escapist medium, with a lot of idealizations and wish-fulfilment. Sure, you can single out some exceptional titles and pretend they represent the entirety of japanese media, but that's just cherrypicking and being dishonest. I can do the same with western media, and probably come up with a much longer list too. I don't know of anything that comes even close to stuff like The Wire, Oz, Chernobyl, Full Metal Jacket, Spotlight, Life is Beautiful, 12 Angry Men, City of Cod, La Haine, Taxi Driver, Requiem for a Dream, Lord of War, Schindlers List or Trainspotting in terms of dovering the issues and topics these works do. Just to give you a small selection of western shows and movies that do a great job of covering serious and relevant topics in nuanced, uncompromising ways that can really open your eyes to some of the harsh realities that people sometimes have to face. Maybe you meant to say that japanese storytelling has a tendency to focus more on the small details, the subtle emotions, the existentialist questions of life rather than criticizing and harshly depicting big, societal problems. But you sure phrased that weirdly and even then you have people like Tarkovsky, Terrence Malick or Charlie Kaufman who excel at that. And I'm not even gonna touch how you just say 'The West' and then only seem to mean america/hollywood. That's just ignorant on so many levels. I really paints a picture of much you know about 'western' media. Hollywood Blockbusters and mainstream TV, right? That's like judging the entirety of anime and japanese media based on mainstream battle shounen and Pokemon. I also love how you talk about 'storytelling' in your title, but then only talk about movies and TV, as if literature was not a storytelling medium with thousands of examples that counter your 'point'. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| God people need to stop getting offended so fucking easily. Did you write these stories? No? Then why are you getting so mad? The purpose of forums is to discuss things and quite frankly, discussion is no fun if people agree on everything. If you disagree with someone be like "hey, this is why you're wrong." Don't be like "omg stop generalizing [insert group]." Different groups of people behave differently, and people are allowed to have either a positive or negative opinion of each group's behavior. With that out of the way, I will now respond to individuals... @Graumann I agree with @Pullman that anime definitely does not tend to show the harsh realities of life. How much anime talk about drug addictions, abusive households, and show war atrocities? Anime is generally fun and a lot of the main topics in anime are so unrealistic anyway that when it is dark, it doesn't even matter (Tokyo Ghoul or Hellsing for example). Western media generally tackles a lot more realistic, dark subject matter. If I was to write a gritty urban crime show, then I'd be much more likely to submit my script to an American production company than a Japanese one for this reason. @Nurguburu I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Western cartoons are SJW propaganda. Maybe you're just watching kids shows. But for the most part, no other medium of entertainment has pushed back against SJW ideology more than Western cartoons do. South Park had an entire season lampooning the SJW ideology, and Family Guy had an episode of their own attacking SJWs and the Twitter lynch mob. Most Western cartoons frequently make racial jokes and jokes about women. Seth Macfarlane is liberal but he is no SJW, Family Guy and American Dad make fun of everyone. I do agree with you though that one of the things I like most about anime is that women are treated like women. I don't like how so many people in Western countries right now are pushing for society to be gender neutral and think traditional gender roles are bad. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Inherently better? Lmao no. The entire idea of one being inherently superior to the other is exceptionally stupid. Also, I think the way people tend to define "harsh reality of life" is usually incredibly superficial, edgy, and more removed from a normal reality than the average CGDCT show. It doesn't help that it's usually coming from do nothing teenagers who are late in their secondary education or just beginning uni education and want to posture about what the world outside of the classroom is like, via copious dramatization mixed with never having left relatively sheltered environments. |
ManabanSep 8, 2019 9:50 PM
 |
Manaban said: Inherently better? Lmao no. The entire idea of one being inherently superior to the other is exceptionally stupid. Also, I think the way people tend to define "harsh reality of life" is usually incredibly superficial, edgy, and more removed from a normal reality than the average CGDCT show. It doesn't help that it's usually coming from do nothing teenagers who are late in their secondary education or just beginning uni education and want to posture about what the world outside of the classroom is like, via copious dramatization mixed with never having left relatively sheltered environments. I think the point is more about exploring the darker parts of life. I'd say its not so much about the "bad parts of life your average person goes through," its more about exploring what happens specifically to the people who go through the rougher parts of life. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Superns18 said: That movie is really dumb specifically because it doesn't seem to have any idea what disabled people are like. Just because you're deaf doesn't mean that's all your personality consists of. It's a terrible representation of a deaf person because she's deaf first and a person second. She barely even had a character. Terrible exampleThen you've got my personal favourite work of ART of ALL time in any category, Koe No Katachi. The storytelling is just so rich and layered and is an accurate representation of the bullying that disabled and handicapped kids go through, self acceptance, forgiveness and how hard it can be to truly make friends, etc. Superns18 said: Which is why they're churning out Isekai escapist trash more than any other genre at the moment. Sorry but your argument is nonsense. Japan is equally eager to push out trash masquerading as emotionally meaningful (A Silent Voice) as America is (13 Reasons Why if you want an example). You want a good show about "the harsh reality of life" made in America, go watch Bojack Horseman. Great shows about life exist in America, you just know...have to look for them and want to find themPersonally, I feel that Japanese storytelling tends to focus on the harsh reality of life a lot more than western media. Japan does not at all focus on the harsh reality of life more than America; that's just a dumb, ignorant opinion. You just aren't looking at enough American media if you think that, or you're ignoring all the garbage that's actually popular in Japan. Nurguburu said: Big Mouth isn't propaganda, that's nonsense. It's just a dumb show about puberty. Where the hell do you get an opinion like that from???Most of modern western cartoons are just sjw propaganda and childish. It's a shame cuz I really liked old cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog or Samurai Jack. Now they're just a mere shadow of what they once were. There're some good cartoons like The Amazing World of Gumball or Regular Show but when I saw propaganda shows like Big Mouth, the She-ra reboot they make me sick. Also this is another generalization based on nonsense, partially because Gumball is one of the more progressive shows out there and you are either ignoring that or it went over your head. Nurguburu said: Again, this is nonsense. You have nothing to support the argument that anime is more popular than American cartoons. You cannot support that statistic with facts because they do not exist. You made it up.Japanese storytelling in anime is far better than their American counterparts. They care about their characters, treat woman as a woman and there is a good concept (badly executed or not). Modern western cartoons suck, they're not popular as anime and this is a reality that we must accept. |
BuuubbblesssSep 8, 2019 11:33 PM
| Nope. This kind of just depends on what you watch. If all I watched from Western media was stuff like adult swim shows and all I watched from Japan was stuff like Steins;Gate, it would be really easy for me to claim Japan was superior when it came to storytelling. |
Annyxtopheles said: You haven't seen enough western films. If you've mostly seen what's popular, what people talk about, what is running on theatres, hell - by big named studios like Disney, Paramount, WB, Lionsgate, and two dozen others... I don't know what to say except that, maybe don't judge things without enough experience? I've seen plenty of them, enough to be able to judge. DiscoMilf said: Superns18 said: That movie is really dumb specifically because it doesn't seem to have any idea what disabled people are like. Just because you're deaf doesn't mean that's all your personality consists of. It's a terrible representation of a deaf person because she's deaf first and a person second. She barely even had a character. Terrible exampleThen you've got my personal favourite work of ART of ALL time in any category, Koe No Katachi. The storytelling is just so rich and layered and is an accurate representation of the bullying that disabled and handicapped kids go through, self acceptance, forgiveness and how hard it can be to truly make friends, etc. Superns18 said: Which is why they're churning out Isekai escapist trash more than any other genre at the moment. Sorry but your argument is nonsense. Japan is equally eager to push out trash masquerading as emotionally meaningful (A Silent Voice) as America is (13 Reasons Why if you want an example). You want a good show about "the harsh reality of life" made in America, go watch Bojack Horseman. Great shows about life exist in America, you just know...have to look for them and want to find themPersonally, I feel that Japanese storytelling tends to focus on the harsh reality of life a lot more than western media. Japan does not at all focus on the harsh reality of life more than America; that's just a dumb, ignorant opinion. You just aren't looking at enough American media if you think that, or you're ignoring all the garbage that's actually popular in Japan. Nurguburu said: Big Mouth isn't propaganda, that's nonsense. It's just a dumb show about puberty. Where the hell do you get an opinion like that from???Most of modern western cartoons are just sjw propaganda and childish. It's a shame cuz I really liked old cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog or Samurai Jack. Now they're just a mere shadow of what they once were. There're some good cartoons like The Amazing World of Gumball or Regular Show but when I saw propaganda shows like Big Mouth, the She-ra reboot they make me sick. Also this is another generalization based on nonsense, partially because Gumball is one of the more progressive shows out there and you are either ignoring that or it went over your head. Nurguburu said: Again, this is nonsense. You have nothing to support the argument that anime is more popular than American cartoons. You cannot support that statistic with facts because they do not exist. You made it up.Japanese storytelling in anime is far better than their American counterparts. They care about their characters, treat woman as a woman and there is a good concept (badly executed or not). Modern western cartoons suck, they're not popular as anime and this is a reality that we must accept. Disagree completely. Even the mediocre stuff out of Japan is better than the west. Setsuei said: Nope. This kind of just depends on what you watch. If all I watched from Western media was stuff like adult swim shows and all I watched from Japan was stuff like Steins;Gate, it would be really easy for me to claim Japan was superior when it came to storytelling. I respect your opinion, but disagree. I can only go off my experiences and in my experiences Japanese storytelling is 10000x better. Live action, anime and literary. TheKawaiiToon said: On my personal viewpoint, it depends on the time period. Before 2013/2014/2015 (or somewhere around the early 2000s), I would say that Japanese and Western media are on par with each other when it comes to storytelling. At least both sides have been giving out lots new ideas to the public. Nowadays however, all I see in the Western media for the most part are remakes, reboots, sequels. Anime on the other hand is kind of the opposite. Sure we also have cliched storytelling, but at least they have got some depth in them and at least they don't make as much reboots as the west does. Now don't get me wrong, I still watch and love a few western stuff. But nowadays, I just stick to anime as my source of entertainment and unique storytelling. Or maybe I'm just not bothered to watch western media nowadays. Nurguburu said: Most of modern western cartoons are just sjw propaganda and childish. It's a shame cuz I really liked old cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog or Samurai Jack. Now they're just a mere shadow of what they once were. There're some good cartoons like The Amazing World of Gumball or Regular Show but when I saw propaganda shows like Big Mouth, the She-ra reboot they make me sick. Exactly. They're even putting slight bits of sjw stuff in western cartoons, series and movies I like. Not being against it though. But like you said, it's over saturating American media right now. could not agree more. There's no real substance to it. BallistikJuice said: Don't really care who's better in what, if I wanna watch/read something entertaining then I go with Anime/Manga. Storytelling alone is simply not enough. well, you basically just agreed with what I said. But got you. Manaban said: Inherently better? Lmao no. The entire idea of one being inherently superior to the other is exceptionally stupid. Also, I think the way people tend to define "harsh reality of life" is usually incredibly superficial, edgy, and more removed from a normal reality than the average CGDCT show. It doesn't help that it's usually coming from do nothing teenagers who are late in their secondary education or just beginning uni education and want to posture about what the world outside of the classroom is like, via copious dramatization mixed with never having left relatively sheltered environments. Not sure what you're getting at with that second bit, seems like you opened a thesaurus and went wild. On_the_Lam said: If A Silent Voice is one of your favorite pieces of storytelling, then you need to watch more things. The manga itself is great and so lively, but the movie is really bland in its presentation. Check out some HBO shows if you want clever, witty storytelling. nah, I'm good. Koe No Karachi is easily the greatest work of art I have ever seen. Western entertainment doesn't interest me. Only so many remakes, reboots and sequels you can put out.Although Interstellar is my second fave. CHLO_JO007 said: What I always say to ANYONE who makes such statements: No. Japanese storytelling is no better nor more realistic than western media. Western media can be just as realistic and relatable as anime. If you don't believe so, it simply means that you don't watch enough western media, and thus hold a bias towards anime. Nope, I watch plenty of both, even the stuff you probably have in mind, just doesn't resonate with me. Critically acclaimed stuff and indie films, all the same bland shit to me. Nurguburu said: Most of modern western cartoons are just sjw propaganda and childish. It's a shame cuz I really liked old cartoons like Courage the Cowardly Dog or Samurai Jack. Now they're just a mere shadow of what they once were. There're some good cartoons like The Amazing World of Gumball or Regular Show but when I saw propaganda shows like Big Mouth, the She-ra reboot they make me sick. Japanese storytelling in anime is far better than their American counterparts. They care about their characters, treat woman as a woman and there is a good concept (badly executed or not). Modern western cartoons suck, they're not popular as anime and this is a reality that we must accept. Western films ,usually, are a mix of modern western cartoons and effort while I didn't watched a lot of japanese live actions, I think that Japan doesn't know how to do a movie. You need to watch more Japanese movies man, I recommend the apple of my eye, really good one I just watched the other day, kinda has 5CM per second vibes. Pullman said: Not depicting the harsh reality of life, my ass. I guess that's why japan/anime has so much media about some of the harshest topics like crime and drug abuse and political corruption. I mean I love anime, but when I want something gritty with a harsh outlook on life, tackling some of the most severe problems societies face today, I find western media to be a much better option for the most part. Anime is largely an escapist medium, with a lot of idealizations and wish-fulfilment. Sure, you can single out some exceptional titles and pretend they represent the entirety of japanese media, but that's just cherrypicking and being dishonest. I can do the same with western media, and probably come up with a much longer list too. I don't know of anything that comes even close to stuff like The Wire, Oz, Chernobyl, Full Metal Jacket, Spotlight, Life is Beautiful, 12 Angry Men, City of Cod, La Haine, Taxi Driver, Requiem for a Dream, Lord of War, Schindlers List or Trainspotting in terms of dovering the issues and topics these works do. Just to give you a small selection of western shows and movies that do a great job of covering serious and relevant topics in nuanced, uncompromising ways that can really open your eyes to some of the harsh realities that people sometimes have to face. Maybe you meant to say that japanese storytelling has a tendency to focus more on the small details, the subtle emotions, the existentialist questions of life rather than criticizing and harshly depicting big, societal problems. But you sure phrased that weirdly and even then you have people like Tarkovsky, Terrence Malick or Charlie Kaufman who excel at that. And I'm not even gonna touch how you just say 'The West' and then only seem to mean america/hollywood. That's just ignorant on so many levels. I really paints a picture of much you know about 'western' media. Hollywood Blockbusters and mainstream TV, right? That's like judging the entirety of anime and japanese media based on mainstream battle shounen and Pokemon. I also love how you talk about 'storytelling' in your title, but then only talk about movies and TV, as if literature was not a storytelling medium with thousands of examples that counter your 'point'. have seen all of those western shows listed and would take my top 5 on MAL over any of them any day. The wire is mediocre compared to most anime I like. |
|
| @Superns18 Feel free to disagree all you want. We all have our own experiences and opinions. For example I greatly prefer western comedy to Japanese, save for a few exceptions. |
| I don't think one is better than the other. When it comes to anime you just have such a huge variety of shows, that you are more likely to find something that fits your taste. There are shows with really great stories, but also shows with complete crappy plots. Western shows are often quite similar without big innovations these days, but there are exceptions as well. |
| Yes. Japanese storytelling isn't completely dependent on conflict, which makes it broader, and Buddhist and Shinto traditions form a far sounder mythological base than Christianity, which pushes Western storytelling towards simplistic "right and wrong" screeds. |
logopolis said: Yes. Japanese storytelling isn't completely dependent on conflict, which makes it broader, and Buddhist and Shinto traditions form a far sounder mythological base than Christianity, which pushes Western storytelling towards simplistic "right and wrong" screeds. You summed it up in a way more intelligent manner than I did, thanks. Gator said: I don't think one is better than the other. When it comes to anime you just have such a huge variety of shows, that you are more likely to find something that fits your taste. There are shows with really great stories, but also shows with complete crappy plots. Western shows are often quite similar without big innovations these days, but there are exceptions as well. There's a huge variety of western live action too, yet I find the storytelling inferior. Even in the ones y'all love to rag on. The Wire, sopranos, etc. All meh to me Setsuei said: @Superns18 Feel free to disagree all you want. We all have our own experiences and opinions. For example I greatly prefer western comedy to Japanese, save for a few exceptions. I actually agree on that one, I rarely laugh at anime banter. Even shows like Konasuba rarely make me laugh. We were watching Zombieland saga the other day and I laughed maybe once, I felt kinda bad cause everyone else was dying at some scenes. |
|
GlennMagusHarvey said: Pretty much in the ballpark of what I was gonna say. Neither of them are really better than the other, they're just different. I think Japanese storytelling in anime tends to put a little more focus on some of the emotional and atmospheric elements compared to American storytelling in film and TV. But this isn't to say that Japanese (or American) storytelling always (or never) has these elements, nor that Japanese (or American) always does these elements better (or worse). I don't think one is superior to the other. There are many anime shows that have interested me, but there also many anime shows that are unappealing to me. On the other hand, American film/TV productions can be quite impactful too, even though I rarely watch them these days. I probably have a preference for anime over the usual American TV shows because of my personal taste for emotional and atmospheric elements, but I still think that both approaches have their own merit and their own times to shine, because art isn't simply about running through a checklist of tropes and techniques. Tv anime tend to focus more so on the philosophical side of things -- family, friends and the like. American TV dramas tend to focus more on being "goal-oriented". In other words, "It's all about me and what I can achieve in life." Neither side is really better than the other, it just depends on what you prefer more. |
Superns18 said: Gator said: I don't think one is better than the other. When it comes to anime you just have such a huge variety of shows, that you are more likely to find something that fits your taste. There are shows with really great stories, but also shows with complete crappy plots. Western shows are often quite similar without big innovations these days, but there are exceptions as well. There's a huge variety of western live action too, yet I find the storytelling inferior. Even in the ones y'all love to rag on. The Wire, sopranos, etc. All meh to me I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. Also the setting is usually in the real world because people can relate to that, exceptions would be stuff like Game of Thrones, but those are rare. In Eastern media (= anime) you have a wide variety of settings alone, multiple shows being fantasy, sci-fi or something completely weird. |
| "Anyone else feel Japanese storytelling is just inherently better than western?" Not me. There are thousands of ways to tell a story...and hundreds of thousands to mess it up even you follow strictly some rules and standards. |
alshuSep 9, 2019 1:04 AM
| Western storytelling can be as good as Japanese. However in terms of Western animated shows? The majority are for comedy (Family Guy, Cartoon Network, Archer, South Park, The Simpsons, American Dad, Cleaveland, Big Mouth, Bojack Horseman, etc.) so it's difficult to find a serious animated show. There's also DC and Marvel animated shit that has the worst voice acting most of the time. |
 |
FrankyP said: Tv anime tend to focus more so on the philosophical side of things -- family, friends and the like. American TV dramas tend to focus more on being "goal-oriented". In other words, "It's all about me and what I can achieve in life." Neither side is really better than the other, it just depends on what you prefer more. I'm happy to claim that "it's all about me and what I can achieve in life" is an objectively bad central storytelling idea. Fortunately, it's only an American peculiarity, it doesn't infect Western culture generally. Gator said: I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. There are some Doctor Who stories which probably outdo Monogatari in those stakes. Thinking in particular about Warriors Gate, Kinda and Ghost Light. |
alshu said: "Anyone else feel Japanese storytelling is just inherently better than western?" Not me. There are thousands of ways to tell a story...and hundreds of thousands to mess it up even you follow strictly some rules and standards. Not sure what that means, but cheers for the new phrase. Elucid said: Western storytelling can be as good as Japanese. However in terms of Western animated shows? The majority are for comedy (Family Guy, Cartoon Network, Archer, South Park, The Simpsons, American Dad, Cleaveland, Big Mouth, Bojack Horseman, etc.) so it's difficult to find a serious animated show. There's also DC and Marvel animated shit that has the worst voice acting most of the time. DC animated films are actually really good, but substantively western shows are really lacking. Gator said: Superns18 said: There's a huge variety of western live action too, yet I find the storytelling inferior. Even in the ones y'all love to rag on. The Wire, sopranos, etc. All meh to me I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. Also the setting is usually in the real world because people can relate to that, exceptions would be stuff like Game of Thrones, but those are rare. In Eastern media (= anime) you have a wide variety of settings alone, multiple shows being fantasy, sci-fi or something completely weird. You've not seen a western ***animated*** show about cooking. That said, there have been some, namely Blues Clues and other PBS/Nickelodeon stuff, none of it as good as the east, though. There's also some pretty abstract stuff in the west, stories just aren't as good. FrankyP said: GlennMagusHarvey said: Pretty much in the ballpark of what I was gonna say. Neither of them are really better than the other, they're just different. I think Japanese storytelling in anime tends to put a little more focus on some of the emotional and atmospheric elements compared to American storytelling in film and TV. But this isn't to say that Japanese (or American) storytelling always (or never) has these elements, nor that Japanese (or American) always does these elements better (or worse). I don't think one is superior to the other. There are many anime shows that have interested me, but there also many anime shows that are unappealing to me. On the other hand, American film/TV productions can be quite impactful too, even though I rarely watch them these days. I probably have a preference for anime over the usual American TV shows because of my personal taste for emotional and atmospheric elements, but I still think that both approaches have their own merit and their own times to shine, because art isn't simply about running through a checklist of tropes and techniques. Tv anime tend to focus more so on the philosophical side of things -- family, friends and the like. American TV dramas tend to focus more on being "goal-oriented". In other words, "It's all about me and what I can achieve in life." Neither side is really better than the other, it just depends on what you prefer more. That is a huge cultural difference between the west and Japan. Japan, like Britain, has a very "the individual isn't that special" mentality, whereas in America there's a "You can be and do whatever you want to in life, you're special" |
|
logopolis said: Gator said: I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. There are some Doctor Who stories which probably outdo Monogatari in those stakes. Thinking in particular about Warriors Gate, Kinda and Ghost Light. I haven't watched Doctor Who, heard good things about it though. Superns18 said: Gator said: I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. Also the setting is usually in the real world because people can relate to that, exceptions would be stuff like Game of Thrones, but those are rare. In Eastern media (= anime) you have a wide variety of settings alone, multiple shows being fantasy, sci-fi or something completely weird. You've not seen a western ***animated*** show about cooking. That said, there have been some, namely Blues Clues and other PBS/Nickelodeon stuff, none of it as good as the east, though. There's also some pretty abstract stuff in the west, stories just aren't as good. Is there a non-animated show about cooking? I'm obviously not talking about stuff like Grodon Ramsay. |
Gator said: logopolis said: There are some Doctor Who stories which probably outdo Monogatari in those stakes. Thinking in particular about Warriors Gate, Kinda and Ghost Light. I haven't watched Doctor Who, heard good things about it though. Superns18 said: You've not seen a western ***animated*** show about cooking. That said, there have been some, namely Blues Clues and other PBS/Nickelodeon stuff, none of it as good as the east, though. There's also some pretty abstract stuff in the west, stories just aren't as good. Is there a non-animated show about cooking? I'm obviously not talking about stuff like Grodon Ramsay. Firstly, watch Dr. Who ASAP, secondly, yea, there's shows about cooking. logopolis said: FrankyP said: Tv anime tend to focus more so on the philosophical side of things -- family, friends and the like. American TV dramas tend to focus more on being "goal-oriented". In other words, "It's all about me and what I can achieve in life." Neither side is really better than the other, it just depends on what you prefer more. I'm happy to claim that "it's all about me and what I can achieve in life" is an objectively bad central storytelling idea. Fortunately, it's only an American peculiarity, it doesn't infect Western culture generally. Gator said: I have yet to see a western show about cooking. Or something as abstract as Bakemonogatari with clever dialogues. There are some Doctor Who stories which probably outdo Monogatari in those stakes. Thinking in particular about Warriors Gate, Kinda and Ghost Light. Are you British? It's mad, I just used that example of how in Britain and Japan that individuality nonsense is looked down lol |
|
Superns18 said: That is a huge cultural difference between the west and Japan. Japan, like Britain, has a very "the individual isn't that special" mentality, whereas in America there's a "You can be and do whatever you want to in life, you're special" Um, Britain is part of the West. (By the way, if you want a difference between American visual storytelling and both Japanese and British visual storytelling, American is rooted in cinematic tradition whilst both British and Japanese are rooted in theatrical tradition. This makes for some huge differences. Theatrical tradition is far better at telling stories. Cinema is fundamentally about pretence.) |
logopolisSep 9, 2019 1:36 AM
Superns18 said: Firstly, watch Dr. Who ASAP, secondly, yea, there's shows about cooking. What western show is about cooking? |
| Back to antiquity the East's stories never relied on the rule of three as much as Western's did. That is a huge reason. |
 |
| nah i just like sakuga of japanese animation especially on fighting scenes that i do not see much or as often on western entertainment sakuga is also a unique style of animating by an animator and i find that cool |
It means that traditional storytelling (no matter from which culture it comes) has some typical forms, tropes, themes ect but you can fail to tell a story even if you fallow them to the letter. On the other hand you can tell a story in very non-traditional way. Thus no inherited superiority in any tradition. "Japanese storytelling" is a bit vague to begin with...for a person like me who has only superficial knowledge of Japan. There are many recognisable patterns in anime but I can not (and I doubt anyone can) generalize them as one whole thing. Like it's really rich and multilayered. Also it frequently references other cultural heritages like chinese, european and many others. And I speak only about anime ignoring more important stuff like - books, movies ect. You can state the same for any other world culture (thus for the storytelling techniques in use) - they influence each other. No concept of better or worst, only how influential is it. |
alshuSep 9, 2019 2:25 AM
| Op is just currently into his turbo-weeb stage of evolution, when anime is seen as a SUPERIOR ARTFORM and OH SO DEEP AND PSYCHOLOGICAL. Will pass with time. |
| Congrats this is the most weeb thread ever, the amount of bias and bullshit is insane |
| poop |
Keenesleyar said: Op is just currently into his turbo-weeb stage of evolution, when anime is seen as a SUPERIOR ARTFORM "Oh look, I'm so edgy and ironic." I've seen over 1500 western movies and tv series. All I can say - anime and Japanese story telling is universes better. I can count on my fingers genuinely good western movies that left something more than "ok I just watched it, nice" feeling. I started watching anime mainly because of SJW crap that is invading western entertainment for long time already. I'm not saying that everything western is shit (I really value movies like Donnie Darko, They Live, Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Mr. Nobody, Truman Show, Der Name der Rose or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest), but overall, I see it as something infinitely inferior. Also, using buzzwords like "weeb" is retarded itself, so I don't even know why I'm replying to this post. |
KawaiiTanukiSep 9, 2019 4:11 AM
| Yes, the last 2 films I watched were the new MIB and the X-Men one, both were infested with SJW crap even complaining about their respective names. I read no spoilers or view on them before I watched. Everything done by the BBC has been ruined by box ticking. It's very rare you see that in ainme and thank fuck too they don't listen to the femnazis. |
 |
KawaiiTanuki said: I don't even know why I'm replying to this post. Oh, the reason you do this is not hard to figure out at all - it's butthurt. |
Keenesleyar said: KawaiiTanuki said: I don't even know why I'm replying to this post. Oh, the reason you do this is not hard to figure out at all - it's butthurt. Hmm? Usage of buzzwords like "weeb" is a perfect indication of someone's frustration (often ignorance and even xenophobia too), so who's butthurted? :) |
KawaiiTanuki said: Hmm? Usage of buzzwords like "weeb" is a perfect indication of someone's frustration (often ignorance and even xenophobia too), so who's butthurted? :) Lol, weren't I just being "edgy and ironic" by your own evaluation? Okay, I seriously don't know if you aren't trolling, since being mad at people for saying "weeb" on MAL is suspiciously exceptional. Oh, and yeah, sure, smiley face too. |
logopolis said: Yes. Japanese storytelling isn't completely dependent on conflict, which makes it broader, and Buddhist and Shinto traditions form a far sounder mythological base than Christianity, which pushes Western storytelling towards simplistic "right and wrong" screeds. This is one reason why I am more for Christianity. Conflict is essential to storytelling, without conflict it becomes poetry. On thread subject: What I find interesting about japanese storytelling is that it sometimes is even more western than western storytelling |
| I don't think Japanese storytelling tends to focus on the harsh reality of life, I think it tends to focus on more inconsequential aspects of daily life, it doesn't treat big dramatic turns as absolutes in the narrative and overall does not seem as attached to conflict as Western narratives. But that's a big generalization to both Japanese and Western narratives. Not every anime is like this, and not every Western movie or TV show is like that. Heck in fact you are kind of misusing the term "Western" if you associate it to Hollywood. I mean, for instance Western cinema is also European, Latin American or African social cinema, it's arthouse, it's indie, it's experimental. It's 120 years of history, with very differentiated trends and local waves and experiments with narrative. You need to acknowledge that because when you talk about a Western style and you end up referring to Hollywood, you are ignoring for instance that France has an audiovisual production that is perfectly comparable to Japan's, which has its own history and development. And lastly, I assume this is just wording for controversy, but it's not something inherently better or worse. It's a different approach coming from a culture with other values. |
jal90 said: Heck in fact you are kind of misusing the term "Western" if you associate it to Hollywood. I mean, for instance Western cinema is also European, Latin American or African social cinema, That seems a little over-broad to me. I think of the word Western in such a context as meaning "culturally Catholic/Prostestant European", hence Western Europe and the places dominated by their colonists and on similar levels of development; North America and Australasia. |
logopolis said: jal90 said: Heck in fact you are kind of misusing the term "Western" if you associate it to Hollywood. I mean, for instance Western cinema is also European, Latin American or African social cinema, That seems a little over-broad to me. I think of the word Western in such a context as meaning "culturally Catholic/Prostestant European", hence Western Europe and the places dominated by their colonists and on similar levels of development; North America and Australasia. idk, to me 'western' usually just means anything that isn't 'eastern' or 'asian'. It's generally used as a dichotomy to separate the world into two parts, not 3 or 4, at least in my experience. I definitely see russian filmmakers like Tarkovsky and south american filmmakers like Jodorowsky as being western rather than eastern/asian. But in any case we can all agree that it's more than just Hollywood. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I like anime for the art and storytelling not possible with live-action, but live-action is far better when it comes to realism. As for which one I like more, definitely anime, but I do love Western films too. My favorite directors are Martin Scorsese and Stanley Kubrick and my favorite actors are Robert De Niro, Leonardo DiCaprio, Jack Nicholson and Al Pacino. |
More topics from this board
» Which, out of all your favorites, would you be least inclined to recommend to others?WatchTillTandava - 7 hours ago |
38 |
by MichaelJackson
»»
3 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Legs or arms?Absurdo_N - 1 hour ago |
12 |
by Absurdo_N
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
» Is watching a show for the cute girl weird?fallout45 - Yesterday |
26 |
by _FRB_
»»
5 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » What tropes do you find the most annoying in a protagonist?ZeroMajor12 - 8 hours ago |
15 |
by Tropisch
»»
6 minutes ago |
|
» Who are your enemies in the anime industry/fanbase?Catalano - Yesterday |
38 |
by Caciulacdlac
»»
10 minutes ago |