How do you respond to popular hype around anime?
| [This post has been edited to improve the quality of discussion. It was originally titled "hipster or sheep" but the negative connotations of the words are inescapable. I perhaps naively expected to be able to redefine them and asked people to be self-depricating which was wrong. Hopefully with the title and OP put in differently, we can get at least a little better discussion, even if the thread may soon run out of steam regardless.] So I think people tend to fall in to one of two categories: They either respond to popular hype by also getting hyped or they respond negatively because they are skeptical about popular shows. I don't think either is superior. There are positives and negatives to both outlooks. As for me. I used to get hyped easily but over time I found that almost every season there a good shows which don't get the attention that the big hype-beast shows get. And in general, I found too often the popular stuff didn't live up to the hype. I kind of started to get resentful of hoe many good shows were being overlooked, and it felt like the hype was a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of like how Hollywood movies will always make a lot of money and have lots of people talking about them when there is a large merketing budget. It's a shame in some ways because I think there are lots of popular shows I could enjoy more if I didn't have this negative attitude and it is easier to find people to talk to about the popular shows. But at the same time I enjoy finding those hidden gems. So, AD, I want you to really think about this. Most people will instinctively want to say they are unaffected by the opinions of others but I think if we are honest, we are almost all affected a little one way or other. Am I wrong about there being two types of people with very few who fall in to the middle? Is it a false dichotomy? Is it better to be one way than the other? |
YossaRedMageJul 24, 2019 2:42 PM
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Shitty poll. I'm an absolute hipster, im a complete elitist, im a salt lord, i hate anime. I'm not simply "a little bit of hipster" i redefine the damn concept of hating whats popular. Well i like Attack on Titan so my opinion is meaningless or at least that's what every single Youtuber says about me :c Seriously why Youtubers hate Aot... edit: Your description of hipster its shitty. I feel like its more of an elitist thing as i imagine a 25 y/o drinking tea and watching some bizarre 3 decades old anime and calling it an underrated masterpiece... Yeah hipster are elitists too but they are different groups on my opinion |
| I never lie on the internet. What's the point of it... the chinese noodles ad is an anime and avatar isn't! triggered Check out my taste and my profile. |
| I'm probably in the middle with a strong leaning towards "at least I'll go check why something is popular" attitude. I, from time to time, will watch something unpopular though that's why I have some shit that only has like 10 to 20k users while having a fairly mainstream favorites list. |
| I like being a hipster, I hate the thought of sheep/sheep mentality since I've seen how bad and annoying it can get with circle jerking and trashing anyone that doesn't follow the herd. If I'm going to be jerking off to opinions I rather it be my own. |
  Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
| I'm independent in how i watch anime, but that doesn't mean i don't value socializing. I don't specifically fall in either, albeit broad, category. |
 I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| If you want to be an overly edgy teenager, you can provoke people by calling them percentages of two extremes. For example, you can say all people are either politically fascists or anarchists. Or all music is some percentage of bubblegum pop or avant garde. Or everyone is either a bully or an insecure weakling with no boundaries. Or people either sacrifice themselves or sacrifice others, are saints or mass murderers, a genius or mentally retarded. Etc. |
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| If I find the synopsis interesting and appealing, then I’ll definitely watch the show no matter what. If the synopsis doesn’t sound really appealing; I’ll look at the mean score, positive and negative reviews, people who worked on the show, and maybe even give the first episode a try to see if it’s my thing. So, I guess anyone who’s willing to give anything a try as long as it appeals them section? |
| To judge others by your own standard is the height of folly. |
| maybe more leaning to hipster type since im a fan of a lot of mecha and 3DCG anime that a lot of fans today hates or dislike |
| why is there such a positive bias for hipsters and such a negative bias for liking popular shows? and i love how you call the people who like popular shows "sheep", as if a large amount of people that could classify in the "hipster" category all mindlessly praise the same 10 shows. |
| I don't think it affects my opinion of a Show really. I may like some Hyped shows but not because they are hyped. I like them Becasue thay are appealing to me. If I based my Faves on Hype, My faves would be filled with stuff that came out after 2016 since that is when I was starting to get into seasonal stuff when I was coming out of Hiatus hence noticing a bit more Hype. |
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| It is hard to associate to one of the traits you mention as they are both opposite and there is a spectrum between them. If anyone had to chose if they were one of the two, even just a little bit, it probably isn't sheep because even though I (and anyone else) may watch popular shows that get "hyped", it doesn't mean I enjoy them to it's maximum as others that said "X" is the best. In some way I and anybody else should click the hipster option as everybody keep their own tastes even though they can be influenced by the hype of a popular show. As for myself, I think that I can be sheep as I watch mostly popular (or at least known) animes and can appreciate some of them and be affected by the hype others give to it (best examples: FMA:B, Gurren Lagann), but I can also be hipster as I like to search for less known things that can be interesting and do not always stick with the hype of some shows (best examples: Haikyuu, Dororo (to a higher degree)). YossaRedMage said: Personally, I feel like hispterism develops over time as people become exposed to more stuff. We start off naturally as sheep. We want to enjoy things with other people. But as we watch more and more we start to realize that there's tons of popular stuff which we don't enjoy and just as many hidden gems, if not many more. We then start to get suspicious of hype and kind of resentful of it. We expect it to be not as good as the hype and thus don't go in with the right attitude. And before we know it, we are hipsters. This totally makes sense and I can relate to it, I've actually already thought about something similar but wasn't sure if it was only my thing. I use to read a lot of shonens, but now when I want to start any, it just makes me cringe and I drop. Last week, I read the two first volumes of Dr. Stone at the library and it really didn't appeal to me and thought that it was really ridiculous how anybody could like that. Same thing for Kuroko no Basket which I'm watching right now. Final verdict, I'm not voting as I consider myself a sheep as I tend to watch shows that have popularity and are to some degree known but I'm also a hipster as less popular stuff can actually interest me too and even though a show gets hyped and I have or will watch it (sooner or later), I'm usually skeptical about it because hype can make lots of animes to be "overrated" to some degree. At the end of the day, I watch anime and read manga to grow my lists and just keep/store all those adventures in my head and not because others like it, both mediums have really interestings things to offer and I want to invest myself into it as much as I can. What I mean is I like anime because it's anime, not because other's like "X" anime nor because I want to know "X" unknown anime. I want to know them all. I probably misunderstood something in your thread but I hope this is a good elaborate answer. Everybody gotta keep growing those lists with everything! Would it be unknown or popular shit. |
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| I'm right in the middle. I won't watch something just because it's popular but i won't avoid it for that either. I pretty much just watch whatever I think looks interesting. |
| I watch popular stuff. Doesn't necessarily mean I'll like it but it wouldn't make me dislike it because its too popular. I watch it to socialise because a lot more of the casual fans watch them over other shows but I look for anime in general, if it is a hidden gem or the face of the industry im not really bothered. I like variety of stuff, but defining hidden gems is a bit of a sticky one. I wouldn't go with the hype unless I'm hyped for it. |
| I'm gonna agree with @CordobezEverdeen and say this is a "shitty poll". The problem is the way you @YossaRedMage have defined the two ends of the spectrum in such a way that conflates two different scales: 1. "Do you lean toward more popular anime or more obscure anime?" and 2. "Do you follow hype, ignore hype, or go against the hype?" It's entirely possible for someone to personally, genuinely like popular anime, and not just for the purpose of chatting with others about it, and similarly, it's possible for someone to like obscure anime while having nothing against popular shows, perhaps because they just have a niche thing they're really into for personal reasons. Thus it is my opinion that... YossaRedMage said: ...is a needlessly reductive dichotomy that results in a loss of meaningful information.I think people are either sheep or hipsters. Not always extremely so, but at least a little one way or the other. And on top of that, both "hipster" and "sheep" have negative connotations of their own, particularly "sheep" in implying that someone just mindlessly follows the crowd, when maybe all someone really wants is just to enjoy some popular anime to chat with their friends about it. I mean, you get posts like this: Aidoru-Ojisan said: And this clearly shows an emphasis on the "I don't mindlessly follow the crowd" meaning, but doesn't address the obscurity or popularity aspect at all. I know you said to "ignore the negative connotations", but the internet ain't gonna listen to that lol.I like being a hipster, I hate the thought of sheep/sheep mentality since I've seen how bad and annoying it can get with circle jerking and trashing anyone that doesn't follow the herd. If I'm going to be jerking off to opinions I rather it be my own. Anyhow I'll try to respond to the criteria you've given: YossaRedMage said: One of the first problems I run into is the fact that I've rarely ever watched anime for the sake of "enjoying things with other people", not even early on. My childhood/teenager experiences with entertainment media were mostly kept to myself, and even since I finally really "got into anime" as an adult, this phenomenon has basically continued to this day. I still pick what to watch pretty much solely based on what I feel like watching personally. And when I did try to interact with the fandom, one of the first things I learned was that the fandom, by and large, isn't into the series (or in some cases the activities) that I'm into, aside from seeing them as trivia-pieces. This was sort of a minor shock at first, but then I came to accept it. And it gradually became clear to me that my taste really is my own, as I've found basically no one else quite like myself.Sheep will tend to like stuff that is popular and has a lot of hype around it. They are postively affected by group hype. They are easily pleased as there is always some popular stuff with plenty of people to talk to and enjoy it with. However they tend to miss out on a lot of good stuff which isn't popular and one could argue their taste isn't really their own. Hipsters are the opposite. They tend to be put off by hype, expecting things to be overrated and instead look for the hidden, underappreciated gems. It's a less happy existence in many ways but they tend to have a a very sure sense of their own taste and they can enjoy stuff more for themselves which you could argue reaches them in a deeper place when they find those real "gems". Personally, I feel like hispterism develops over time as people become exposed to more stuff. We start off naturally as sheep. We want to enjoy things with other people. But as we watch more and more we start to realize that there's tons of popular stuff which we don't enjoy and just as many hidden gems, if not many more. We then start to get suspicious of hype and kind of resentful of it. We expect it to be not as good as the hype and thus don't go in with the right attitude. And before we know it, we are hipsters. This points to me not being a "sheep", though for what it's worth, I think I do tend to be rather "easily pleased", in the sense that I'll accept a lot of stuff that people might otherwise criticize anime series for. For example, sometimes I've found that I don't notice supposedly bad animation (or at least I don't think it's "bad"), and either I don't agree with other people's saying that certain things are plot holes or I feel that they can plausibly be papered over with an in-universe justification/explanation. I'm also probably more patient than the average fan, and thus more tolerant of "boring" stories (which I've found are often actually just "slow burns"). Heck, I'm even of the opinion that "good" and "bad" aren't the right terms to use when assessing anime (I prefer "effective"/"ineffective", since that implies a specific purpose or goal, such as entertaining a certain person). Maybe I am a "hipster", since I do get put off by hype, but then sometimes I do go and check stuff out due to the hype, or due to some friends around me talking about a certain series (or more likely, posting screenshots or sharing music from it). I really have no qualms about liking something popular, though usually when this happens, I'm years late for the hype train (this was really conspicuous for me with the Haruhi franchise), because any earlier and an excessive amount of hype might have put me off something -- or at least I tend to hate it when people meme things up, since I prefer to take my stories seriously. (Though, given the right messenger I can be convinced to put something onto my plan-to-watch list.) I have sometimes asked myself why I don't watch more super-popular stuff, and I think it's a combination of mainly (1) it just often isn't my thing for whatever reason (this can be as simple as "the genre/aesthetic/art style isn't my taste"), and some of (2) it's more fun to go into something blind and take it in as an adventure, rather than to go in having informed expectations and possibly having them not pan out correctly. Meanwhile, though, do I want more people to talk to about anime? Well, I guess early on I did, and to some extent I still do enjoy the company of some people who will talk a bit about the series I do watch, but my days of thinking I had truly discovered heretofore unheralded gems are long gone. These days I've come to accept that, if I wanna talk about a series I like, I'll be doing most of the talking. Still, though, it's not all bad. For more popular stuff, the fandom can do things that I find obnoxious -- such as meme things up. (e.g. I think Evangelion's "congratulations" scene is a touchingly sincere and heartfelt thing, so it's a little annoying when people mock it roundly.) So if I'm the only one talking about it, then I can basically "set the tone" for what I want to talk about. And my being stupidly wordy probably tends to invite other people who enjoy this sort of perspective. YossaRedMage said: Well, I can't claim to be "unaffected by the opinions of others"...but, honestly, I'd like to be such. I've always tended to ignore reviews before watching something, and these days I even try to ignore scores. I don't mind disliking Madoka Magica or liking Beatless, but I also don't mind having a poor opinion of Guilty Crown or really enjoying A Silent Voice. If there's one constant, it's that I feel I should stand for my honest personal opinion, regardless of its popularity.Which are you? Or are you a special snowflake, unaffected by the opinions of others (I think these people are super rare if they exist at all but if that's what you think then great)? So, there you go. You decide how to interpret this. Late edit: Setsuei said: Me in a nutshell.I'm right in the middle. I won't watch something just because it's popular but i won't avoid it for that either. I pretty much just watch whatever I think looks interesting. |
GlennMagusHarveyJul 23, 2019 11:12 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I am neither, I don't generally watch the most popular ones as they are most often battle shonen which I hate. But Gintama is one of my favourites and a hipster wouldn't watch that. I just watch what I like and I don't even care if it's popular or not. |
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| Bah humbug! Hipsters are sheep disguised to look like wolfs disguised as sheep - "You see, I am all wolf on the inside!". |
alshuJul 24, 2019 1:54 AM
| Neither really, I chose to watch the stuff that looks good to me, and in order to find that kind of stuff, I usually browse animes that people generally tend to rate highly. |
| I quickly skimmed your post and I don't like that stereotyping is still around these days. |
| Sorry in your OP you make it sounds like hipster are better than sheep when they are just as bad because even though they genuinely enjoy mainstream shows, they will pretend they don't like just because they think they look cool for liking other people doesn't like. Neither. I'm completely unaffected by any of those. I love mainstream anime/manga like Kimi no Na Wa, One Piece, Naruto, Digimon but I also enjoy less known anime/manga/manhua like Juuni Kokuki, Ghost Hunt and hey I even have a Chinese anime, Mo Dao Zu Shi in my favorite despite anime community disliking Chinese made anime and Chinese languages. For manhua, I like My Wife is a Demon Queen and Feng Shen Ji. I have both mixture mainstream and hipster anime/manga/manhua in my favorite because I genuinely enjoy those without giving a shit what other have to say. |
| yes dividing people into 2 groups like this makes complete sense :) |
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| My record speaks for itself. Too many people on here try to be "hipsters" and go into popular / hyped anime or generally acclaimed anime for the sole purpose of devaluing and demeriting it. So they can speak on how bad/average/overrated it is. I personally know many, many, many users - most of them reviewers and other prominent members of the community who subscribe to this philosophy. I think it's wholly pathetic. So many plethora of examples exist - just look at Kimi no na wa, Violet Evergarden, Shigatsu, Clannad, Code Geass, Angel Beats, SAO, Akame ga Kill, Erased, Re:Zero, etc, etc. |
 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| I wonder in what category the people that creates bad threads fall into. |
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| @YossaRedMage - I read the OP and thought about your question. After thinking about it I am not a Hipster or a Sheep, I don't think. For example 2 shows with a lot of hype, Attack On Titan and Boku No Hero. I just finished watching 2nd Season of both shows recently, I nearly put them both on hold half way through as they weren't keeping me interested. So I don't think I'm a Sheep, but then I wouldn't call myself a Hipster either. I'm an older anime viewer so I know what I like and aren't really affected by 'the popular opinion' of others. That said, sometimes shows get hyped because they're genuinely good, so I will often see what is popular and investigate whether it's worth putting in the time to watch myself. I suppose imo it depends where and who the hype is coming from. If it's from someone whose opinion I admire and respect then I'll take it seriously, but just seeing an anime being popular and scored well won't make me watch it. I know now that I need more detail to make an informed decision on the merit of a show, which is where reviews and recommendations from other viewers come in handy. Sorry, this is an answer one way or another, but your question piqued my interest. |
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Kurgo said: Johan said: My record speaks for itself. Too many people on here try to be "hipsters" and go into popular / hyped anime or generally acclaimed anime for the sole purpose of devaluing and demeriting it. So they can speak on how bad/average/overrated it is. I personally know many, many, many users - most of them reviewers and other prominent members of the community who subscribe to this philosophy. I think it's wholly pathetic. So many plethora of examples exist - just look at Kimi no na wa, Violet Evergarden, Shigatsu, Clannad, Code Geass, Angel Beats, SAO, Akame ga Kill, Erased, Re:Zero, etc, etc. Just a couple of points: 1) Simply because a show is popular/hyped, doesn't mean it's *good* by any stretch of the imagination (in fact, in the top 10 of popularity there are what, 3 or 4 shows under 8, which by MAL standards is what a real-life 5 would be). Sword art online is a great example of that since it's been virtually raped every other day by most people who watch it (can't say if with or without cause, since I've never watched it and probably never will, but I doubt all of these people are "hipsters" who watch something just to shit on it). 2) Hype can certainly affect how you go into an anime. I expected great things from death note and angel beats and I found the first to be garbage and the second to be mindnumbingly boring. Would I have disliked them less if they hadn't been hyped to hell and back? Possibly, but I'd still think they were just bad. For other shows (mushishi, snk, steins;gate) I had similarly significant expectations and I still enjoyed them all, greatly. Can't say I've read of anyone who said out right "yeah I'll watch popular anime just to shit on them", doubtless you've had a far more thorough experience of these boards than I have so I'll take your word on that. Still though, as I'm certain you already know, disliking popular shows doesn't automatically mean someone's trying hard to be a hardcore hipster. p.s. Plethora is a singular noun. Cheers. Boring reply from a boring person. Keep your profile private please. It's for the better. |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| isn't being a hipster PURPOSEFULLY avoiding something because its popular? if so then its not about being a hipster i just simply don't give a shit what everyone is watching or about high score... all that matters when it comes to the anime i watch is what i think as i've said before, a 5.0 is more exciting to me than an 8.0 cause i know people tend to bash the shows i like the most and give them bad scores |
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| I don't care what others think. I may like an unpopular anime or hate a popular anime, it's upto me. |
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carseatheadrest said: why is there such a positive bias for hipsters and such a negative bias for liking popular shows? and i love how you call the people who like popular shows "sheep", as if a large amount of people that could classify in the "hipster" category all mindlessly praise the same 10 shows. There isn't a bias for Hipsters. I think Sheep tend to be much happier and much more social too. If anything, the bias is against Hipsters. I think in many ways it sucks to not be able to enjoy popular stuff either at all or as much as Sheep do. BiDiGiN said: I probably misunderstood something in your thread but I hope this is a good elaborate answer. Everybody gotta keep growing those lists with everything! Would it be unknown or popular shit. Don't think you misunserstood at all and it was a great answer, thanks! Also noticed you're new. Welcome to MAL! GlennMagusHarvey said: I'm gonna agree with CordobezEverdeen and say this is a "shitty poll". The problem is the way you @YossaRedMage have defined the two ends of the spectrum in such a way that conflates two different scales: 1. "Do you lean toward more popular anime or more obscure anime?" and 2. "Do you follow hype, ignore hype, or go against the hype?" I think you misunderstand. The second point there is the subject of conversation. The first point is merely the common results. GlennMagusHarvey said: It's entirely possible for someone to personally, genuinely like popular anime, and not just for the purpose of chatting with others about it, and similarly, it's possible for someone to like obscure anime while having nothing against popular shows, perhaps because they just have a niche thing they're really into for personal reasons. Sure.... but that's irrelevant. The subject is how people respond to popular hype. My supposition was that almost everyone either responds positively or negatively. And I still think that. It's a shame so many people lacked the sense of humor and introspection necessary to make the self-judgment. I think too many people took the labels Sheep and Hipster far too negatively when it's supposed to be just some fun self-deprication. But, again, you're argument that i'm conflating two different things is wrong. GlennMagusHarvey said: Thus it is my opinion that... YossaRedMage said: ...is a needlessly reductive dichotomy that results in a loss of meaningful information.I think people are either sheep or hipsters. Not always extremely so, but at least a little one way or the other. Not all. You're just being difficult for the sake of it now. I think it says something fundamental about the person. It's no more "needlessly reductive" than asking if someone is an optimist or a pessimist. And regardless, even if it were, it's just a bit of fun like a personality test or something, only I'm asking people to self-assess. GlennMagusHarvey said: And on top of that, both "hipster" and "sheep" have negative connotations of their own [...] I know you said to "ignore the negative connotations", but the internet ain't gonna listen to that lol. But you could listen to that, couldn't you Glenn? You're an individual. You can choose to rise above it. Instead your attitude seems to be "well other people are going to bring up the negative connotations so I guess I will too". Ironically quite a Sheep thing to do. GlennMagusHarvey said: Anyhow I'll try to respond to the criteria you've given: That would be swell. GlennMagusHarvey said: One of the first problems I run into is the fact that I've rarely ever watched anime for the sake of "enjoying things with other people", not even early on. My childhood/teenager experiences with entertainment media were mostly kept to myself, and even since I finally really "got into anime" as an adult, this phenomenon has basically continued to this day. I still pick what to watch pretty much solely based on what I feel like watching personally. And when I did try to interact with the fandom, one of the first things I learned was that the fandom, by and large, isn't into the series (or in some cases the activities) that I'm into, aside from seeing them as trivia-pieces. This was sort of a minor shock at first, but then I came to accept it. And it gradually became clear to me that my taste really is my own, as I've found basically no one else quite like myself. This points to me not being a "sheep", though for what it's worth, I think I do tend to be rather "easily pleased", in the sense that I'll accept a lot of stuff that people might otherwise criticize anime series for. For example, sometimes I've found that I don't notice supposedly bad animation (or at least I don't think it's "bad"), and either I don't agree with other people's saying that certain things are plot holes or I feel that they can plausibly be papered over with an in-universe justification/explanation. I'm also probably more patient than the average fan, and thus more tolerant of "boring" stories (which I've found are often actually just "slow burns"). Heck, I'm even of the opinion that "good" and "bad" aren't the right terms to use when assessing anime (I prefer "effective"/"ineffective", since that implies a specific purpose or goal, such as entertaining a certain person). Bolded section. I'm exactly the same. This is why I like you Glenn. For all your disagreeableness we are actually quite similar in some regards. The first paragraph is interesting in that it's a new perspective to me. You might genuinely fall in to the "neither Sheep nor Hipster" category. I'd previously thought of you as somewhat of a Hipster because you often talk about liking obscure anime. Maybe I am a "hipster", since I do get put off by hype There was a lot more of your post but I want to wrap this reply up with the most pertinent bit. I think if the above is true then you count as a Hipster. hazecloud said: I quickly skimmed your post and I don't like that stereotyping is still around these days. Please look in to acquiring a sense of humor. Especially with regards to yourself. Imaishi said: yes dividing people into 2 groups like this makes complete sense :) People often fall in to one of two categories in many ways. Optimist and pessimist. Introvert and extrovert. Conservative and liberal. They are broad generalization, true. But they are useful things to know about yourself and others. It's unfortunate when people don't take the chance to be introspective and instead make ignorant comments like yours. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
EcchiGodMamster said: isn't being a hipster PURPOSEFULLY avoiding something because its popular? if so then its not about being a hipster i just simply don't give a shit what everyone is watching or about high score... all that matters when it comes to the anime i watch is what i think as i've said before, a 5.0 is more exciting to me than an 8.0 cause i know people tend to bash the shows i like the most and give them bad scores I don't even know whats being a hipster anymore. Pretty sure Op has no clue either. Also yeah disliking bad writting packed into the ultimate generic self insert low brow rom com that's sexist because "haha lmao" makes me a hipster. It feels that just like people invalidate's other opinions about popular shows because those shows tend to have a hype behind. Like AoT (more specifically pre basement AoT). There are "people" who will invalidate your opinion because "you are just a hipster" "there is nothing wrong with Toradora: a romcom in which the MC its a brat who breaks into a house and assaults a innocent bystander, conffesses like quadrillion times, beats up a girl because DONT MAKE CRY MU MAN MY PROPERTY, etc You are just being a hipster and saying its bad because its popular" Since it seems that there isnt a general consensus in what the hell a hipster is supposed to be its meaningless to complain about it. In the end i think its best to not expect absolutely anything from a show. If its good its good. If its bad well though luck everyone else thinks its good and will completely overlook the multiple flaws of these horrible "characters". Hopefully all the people who likes rom coms stay virgins because the thought of them reproducing scares me. If it has horrible quality it can still be enjoyed for the story If it has good quality then there are people being overworked for 323 hours and being underpaid so you are a horrible person for liking this show and saying stuff like "Wow so much passion being put into this work" "its a labor of love" /s |
| I never lie on the internet. What's the point of it... the chinese noodles ad is an anime and avatar isn't! triggered Check out my taste and my profile. |
carseatheadrest said: why is there such a positive bias for hipsters and such a negative bias for liking popular shows? and i love how you call the people who like popular shows "sheep", as if a large amount of people that could classify in the "hipster" category all mindlessly praise the same 10 shows. I notice the same thing too. Positive bias towards hipsters but negative bias for liking popular shows. OP describe sheep as someone who jump bandwagon as if people who like popular anime just do it so they can get into conversation when in reality it's only because they just genuinely like it. Sheep is someone who like popular shows for the sake of it but here's the question. How does a show become popular in the first place. It because large majority of people genuinely like it, hence it become popular. I read Attack on Titan manga first and is already a fan of the manga before the anime announced and become popular. Sheep has as much sense as of their own taste as much as hipster. YossaRedMage said: Personally, I feel like hispterism develops over time as people become exposed to more stuff. We start off naturally as sheep. We want to enjoy things with other people. But as we watch more and more we start to realize that there's tons of popular stuff which we don't enjoy and just as many hidden gems, if not many more. We then start to get suspicious of hype and kind of resentful of it. We expect it to be not as good as the hype and thus don't go in with the right attitude. And before we know it, we are hipsters. I could be wrong but that's kind of how I think it goes for many people. Certainly it's true for me. This post was inspired by a comment I read from someone who seemed quite angry at himself for his hipster tastes and I can totally relate. I often wish I could just enjoy a popular show and have more people to talk to, but honestly I think there is just as much value in being a hipster. So, AD, I want you to really think about this and be honest. Which are you? Or are you a special snowflake, unaffected by the opinions of others (I think these people are super rare if they exist at all but if that's what you think then great)? What? We? The moment I read this, I know right away you are just projecting your own insecurities or your own experience onto others. Not to mention you try to force the narratives that people who unaffected by opinion of others are rare. |
Papa_ScorchJul 24, 2019 7:34 AM
YossaRedMage said: The subject is how people respond to popular hype. My supposition was that almost everyone either responds positively or negatively. And I still think that. It's a shame so many people lacked the sense of humor and introspection necessary to make the self-judgment. I think too many people took the labels Sheep and Hipster far too negatively when it's supposed to be just some fun self-deprication. Then why not making the choices "Black sheep or regular sheep?"...people may stop decoding the poll as "Pretentious prick or mindless hype train hopper?" |
alshuJul 24, 2019 7:26 AM
YossaRedMage said: I see, so it was the second one after all.GlennMagusHarvey said: I'm gonna agree with CordobezEverdeen and say this is a "shitty poll". The problem is the way you @YossaRedMage have defined the two ends of the spectrum in such a way that conflates two different scales: 1. "Do you lean toward more popular anime or more obscure anime?" and 2. "Do you follow hype, ignore hype, or go against the hype?" I think you misunderstand. The second point there is the subject of conversation. The first point is merely the common results. If so, my position is that I ignore the hype, with some going against the hype (including hate-hype) when the antics of the hype-ers start to annoy me. But even then, whether I like a show in the first place tends to be dependent on factors independent of the hype -- I decided I was going to watch FranXX before its hatedom became a thing, for example. YossaRedMage said: It's not just about taking the labels negatively; it's also about conflating that second point with that first point. Regardless of whether you think you conflated the two, various posts in this thread -- such as CapitalistGod's post #4, and QPR's post #18 -- indicate that people have been using "how popular is the stuff that I like/watch?" as a way to answer your question.GlennMagusHarvey said: It's entirely possible for someone to personally, genuinely like popular anime, and not just for the purpose of chatting with others about it, and similarly, it's possible for someone to like obscure anime while having nothing against popular shows, perhaps because they just have a niche thing they're really into for personal reasons. Sure.... but that's irrelevant. The subject is how people respond to popular hype. My supposition was that almost everyone either responds positively or negatively. And I still think that. It's a shame so many people lacked the sense of humor and introspection necessary to make the self-judgment. I think too many people took the labels Sheep and Hipster far too negatively when it's supposed to be just some fun self-deprication. But, again, you're argument that i'm conflating two different things is wrong. Furthermore, you've noticeably got a bunch of people (even without including myself) who've responded by saying that they fall into the middle and don't fit either category, when you expected there to be very few of the middle category, so your hypothesis of how people fall onto this scale, or the way you asked your question, or both, seem to not be functioning as you may have desired. YossaRedMage said: As evidenced by the posts here, I was not the only person to come to this opinion. My assessment is that the reason that meaningful information is lost is because of those two points getting mixed together into one. I don't hate your thread; in fact, I think it's a neat idea to explore these questions. But I think your intent just isn't quite working right. (Maybe it would have been better to just ask to what extent people follow, ignore, or go against hype?)GlennMagusHarvey said: Thus it is my opinion that......is a needlessly reductive dichotomy that results in a loss of meaningful information. Not all. You're just being difficult for the sake of it now. I think it says something fundamental about the person. It's no more "needlessly reductive" than asking if someone is an optimist or a pessimist. And regardless, even if it were, it's just a bit of fun like a personality test or something, only I'm asking people to self-assess. YossaRedMage said: I have a feeling that you're taking what I said more negatively/offensively than I meant it. If so, my apologies for the misunderstanding. But anyhow, your question here is why I simply laid out who I am and let you decide for yourself.GlennMagusHarvey said: And on top of that, both "hipster" and "sheep" have negative connotations of their own [...] I know you said to "ignore the negative connotations", but the internet ain't gonna listen to that lol. But you could listen to that, couldn't you Glenn? You're an individual. You can choose to rise above it. Instead your attitude seems to be "well other people are going to bring up the negative connotations so I guess I will too". Ironically quite a Sheep thing to do. YossaRedMage said: I do tend to keep my more distinctive favorites on my profile, so you may have a point in that I at least find it more interesting to present myself as being on the "hipster" side of the scale.I'd previously thought of you as somewhat of a Hipster because you often talk about liking obscure anime. Overall I probably do lean toward that side, at least socially, though I feel this may be more about how I interact with fellow fans than how I actually pick what to watch. (Maybe this is another meaningful distinction...) YossaRedMage said: Let's have some fun with this personality test :PImaishi said: yes dividing people into 2 groups like this makes complete sense :) People often fall in to one of two categories in many ways. Optimist and pessimist. Introvert and extrovert. Conservative and liberal. They are broad generalization, true. But they are useful things to know about yourself and others. It's unfortunate when people don't take the chance to be introspective and instead make ignorant comments like yours. * I tend to be a somewhat pragmatic optimist with a slight lean toward the cynical, in that I think there's hope for a good outcome, but I'd expect people to think strategically including taking actions that seem to go against their positions in order to achieve a desired outcome. * I used to say I'm an introvert, though considering how much I blabber on the internet, I've been wondering whether that might not actually be true. * Using current U.S. definitions for these terms, I sometimes call myself a liberal conservative, as I find myself using conservative ways of thinking, while being more likely to agree with liberal policy positions. |
GlennMagusHarveyJul 24, 2019 8:43 AM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Well, as for me, I'm not one of those "this is one overrated piece of crap" hippies nor on of those who blindly force themselves to watch a series that's clearly not to their liking just because it is "popular". |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I'm neither, or both. I'm just an anime fan with very broad taste. I'll take any incentive to watch and enjoy a show if it's from a genre I'm somewhat interested in and it makes me more excited to watch that show. Discovering hidden gems is a great motivator, as is popularity and critical acclaim. Tho tbh since my taste already is very broad I'm already interested in a lot of shows when they come out and it almost never happens that something goes under my radar and only popularity or critical acclaim make me interested in it. At best it usually makes a show a slightly higher priority for me than it already was, e.g. Kaguya-sama which I was always gonna watch but the reception and popularity made me slightly adjust my expectations. The thing with hating popular anime is that it makes absolute sense to be more vocal when you dislike a popular anime and constantly see people praise it as the best thing. That evokes a need to argue back, to hold and defend your position, which you simply don't get when noone talks about a show you dislike. I think it's completely false to just accuse people who dislike popular anime for disliking them because of the popularity, but that always seems to be the case, especially with the whole 'hipster' terminology. Mostly it's just that people dislike something despite the popularity. They might just be vocal about it because of the popularity, but that's perfectly fine. Some people probably do watch shows they know they will hate just because they are popular and everybody talks about them, but a) that's still a pretty small percentage and b) there's a hundred different reasons for doing so, some which could be categorized as 'hipster' and others as the opposite. In any case, generalizing people as just one or the other is reductive and is gonna lead to misjudging 90% of people or more, like all generalizations. Overall I feel this is just another one of these dichotomies that only exist in people's head because humans like putting labels on people and the typical black-and-white view of 'you're either X or Y' is always popular with our species, it appeals to our psychology by turning things into a very easy to understand pattern. It's something that helps people make sense of the world around them, even if it is completely unfactual. It makes everything simple in their head, even tho in reality people and their preferences and behaviours are always more complex no matter how much reductively you view them. In short, it's a lazy way of viewing people, and a kind of dumb one too. It's for people who don't care about understanding how people work as individuals, but just want easy, quick ways of labeling them so they don't have to think about them as complex beings, but just as, well, 'sheep' or 'hipsters'. In the end I think categorizing people based on whether they are affected by popular opinion is pointless because everybody is. Trying to categorize them based on whether they are impacted only in the sense of seeing popularity as either 'good' or 'bad' is reductive and simplifies the matter way too much to really summarize how almost anyone acts. Personally I try to always focus on the potential upside. If many people like something, I'm more likely to enjoy it as well since I'm a human just like them with similar sensibilities (it's a different story if it's a genre I hate, but as I said I have broad taste so that doesn't really happen). If not many people have seen something, it could be amazing and just too obscure for people to have heard about it and I'll have to check for myself. I could also think 'this is popular so it's probably overrated by sheep, and this other show is obscure, probably because it isn't good enough to attract an audience' and always have negative expectations, but what is the upside of that? That just seems miserable to me, but I guess it might help some people avoid disappointment. It makes much more sense to me to have consistently positive, or negative expectations for shows depending on your personality and mindset, but I am aware that the majority of people fall somewhere in the middle. Realistically I think how they approach shows is mostly similar to my Kaguya-sama example. They will decide interest based on the synopsis and stuff, with the level of popularity or the general receptions then being able to slightly nudge the expectations or hype levels in one direction or the other, but not fundamentally changing their interest in the show. And I do think that for the corner cases where the popularity does play a bigger role for them, it being an incentive to watch something is much more widespread than it making people avoid shows. Even 'hipsters' often watch those popular shows to have an opinion on them, albeit a negative one. Really avoiding them is rare, @GlennMagusHarvey is one of the only people I know who does that frequently. And like him I also can't really relate to that idea of wanting to 'enjoy things with other people' being a prime motivator for watching, well, anything. I like talking about anime with people, but it's a luxury, not even close to being one of the reasons why I watch them. I merely want to be entertained by what I watch while I watch it and once I'm done with watching something 90% of my interest in it will go away and I'll focus in on the next viewing experience. I'm all about those viewing experiences in the here and now, analyzing, arguing, dicussing, fanboying, hating on something afterwards is a non-essential part of the whole process, that I like but don't need. And I think if you really have to set up some kind of dichotomy of two types of fans, basing it on that kind of differentiation makes a bit more sense. As in 'Indivdualist' and 'Collectivist' fans, or something like that. On the one side people who watch anime because they enjoy being in the community and talking about stuff and being part of the subculture and engaging in activities related to it (like VNs or JRPGs or LNs or Jpop or whatever other stuff from the periphery of the anime fandom you can think of). And on the other side people who just happen to be in the community because of their love for anime or animation in general, who don't really care about any of these other things. I love storytelling and I love animation and that's it, anything else, including this community, I only care about in relation to those two things. For many people I feel it is the other way round, they watch anime to be part of the discussions, to have an opinion on them that makes them able to be part of the discourse about it. Obscure anime have no appeal to them because there is no platform to talk about them. Which is fine, to each their own, but I feel that's a much more fundamental separation that goes through the community than people reacting slightly more positiveor negative to popularity in some cases. Then again I wouldn't really generalize like that either on a larger scale because I do think every dichotomy like that is reductive in the end and most people occupy a middle ground where they care about different things with different percentages and labeling them based on the side with the larger percentage just feels like pretending their other side doesn't exist. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Hey I'm not a hipster, it's others who are watching worse and worse shit as time passes. Not specific to anime either, look at video games or live action movies... Bethesda biggest dev/editor in the world, horseshit action movie licenses like Fast and Furious or Transformers releasing a successful sequel every year, etc. I have no problem enjoying something popular if it's good, but popularity and quality seem to overlap less and less over the years. |
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Pullman said: Unlike you, my taste tends to be more specific, as in I know what I tend to like and am not really all that interested in seeking out anime I might not like.I'm neither, or both. I'm just an anime fan with very broad taste. I'll take any incentive to watch and enjoy a show if it's from a genre I'm somewhat interested in and it makes me more excited to watch that show. Discovering hidden gems is a great motivator, as is popularity and critical acclaim. Tho tbh since my taste already is very broad I'm already interested in a lot of shows when they come out and it almost never happens that something goes under my radar and only popularity or critical acclaim make me interested in it. At best it usually makes a show a slightly higher priority for me than it already was, e.g. Kaguya-sama which I was always gonna watch but the reception and popularity made me slightly adjust my expectations. (Not arguing; just an observation.) Pullman said: I think this is a reasonable assessment of how people actually decide whether/how much they're interested in a show.[People] will decide interest based on the synopsis and stuff, with the level of popularity or the general receptions then being able to slightly nudge the expectations or hype levels in one direction or the other, but not fundamentally changing their interest in the show. Responses to hype may differ one way or another though, and it seems (according to OP's response to my post, correct me if I'm wrong @YossaRedMage) that that was the point of the thread. FWIW I definitely have cases where I decided to get around to watching a show that was already on my radar because a friend was posting about it. But it doesn't uniformly work for all shows; those posts would have had to tell me there was something about the show that'd appeal to me anyway. Pullman said: To be fair, the way I do this is by being too damn slow to get around to watching anything. :DAnd I do think that for the corner cases where the popularity does play a bigger role for them, it being an incentive to watch something is much more widespread than it making people avoid shows. Even 'hipsters' often watch those popular shows to have an opinion on them, albeit a negative one. Really avoiding them is rare, @GlennMagusHarvey is one of the only people I know who does that frequently. Pullman said: Well I understand this feeling; it's just that it doesn't apply to me when it comes to enjoying anime.And like him I also can't really relate to that idea of wanting to 'enjoy things with other people' being a prime motivator for watching, well, anything. I like talking about anime with people, but it's a luxury, not even close to being one of the reasons why I watch them. Pullman said: Ah, this is something I don't like doing.I merely want to be entertained by what I watch while I watch it and once I'm done with watching something 90% of my interest in it will go away and I'll focus in on the next viewing experience. In contrast, I sometimes liken my discovering stories that are meaningful to me as "adding starts to my starry sky". I like stories that can move me, that can give me an interesting experience, one that I'll remember and treasure. Pullman said: In this sense I'm definitely more of the "Individualist" type, given how I pick out entertainment for myself rather than to be part of a group/community/subculture/fandom.'Indivdualist' and 'Collectivist' fans, or something like that. On the one side people who watch anime because they enjoy being in the community and talking about stuff and being part of the subculture and engaging in activities related to it (like VNs or JRPGs or LNs or Jpop or whatever other stuff from the periphery of the anime fandom you can think of). And on the other side people who just happen to be in the community because of their love for anime or animation in general, who don't really care about any of these other things. Deathko said: As someone who's a politics geek, I can't help but see a parallel with politicians switching parties and saying "I didn't leave my party; my party left me!"Hey I'm not a hipster, it's others who are watching worse and worse shit as time passes. Not specific to anime either, look at video games or live action movies... Bethesda biggest dev/editor in the world, horseshit action movie licenses like Fast and Furious or Transformers releasing a successful sequel every year, etc. I have no problem enjoying something popular if it's good, but popularity and quality seem to overlap less and less over the years. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| @GlennMagusHarvey I still enjoy the two first Terminators or NGE wich is more popular than 99.9% anime out there, and it never changed. I also have no problem enjoying something recent like Mad Max Road Fury wich is obviously filmed by someone competent and who knows what to do with a camera or story. Or Rakugo something something. On the other hand, when I see people praising shlock dating sim like Steins;Gate, Fallout 3 and its garbage writing, or James Cameron's Gunnm adaptation (lol)... Hmmmyeah. With anime at least the reason is clear: a huge part of the fanbase simply has absolutely no standards or knowledge to judge anything and isn't looking for them either. When you run into the 100th anime fan screaming "X show has the best animation ever" before making it obvious that he has no idea wtf animation even means, you start to realize why some really mediocre stuff gets so popular. Quality is independent of popularity. Sometimes it overlaps, sometimes it does not. My point is that currently, it doesn't. So I'll be a hipster as long as people keep watching garbage |
|
Deathko said: I'm inclined to disagree with your opinion. Though, if only I had watched Steins;Gate (or played Fallout 3 or watched Alita: Battle Angel) because then I would be able to comment on it. Only thing you've mentioned that I've watched is NGE (plus the first episode of Steins;Gate lol).@GlennMagusHarvey I still enjoy the two first Terminators or NGE wich is more popular than 99.9% anime out there, and it never changed. I also have no problem enjoying something recent like Mad Max Road Fury wich is obviously filmed by someone competent and who knows what to do with a camera or story. Or Rakugo something something. On the other hand, when I see people praising shlock dating sim like Steins;Gate, Fallout 3 and its garbage writing, or James Cameron's Gunnm adaptation (lol)... Hmmmyeah. With anime at least the reason is clear: a huge part of the fanbase simply has absolutely no standards or knowledge to judge anything and isn't looking for them either. When you run into the 100th anime fan screaming "X show has the best animation ever" before making it obvious that he has no idea wtf animation even means, you start to realize why some really mediocre stuff gets so popular. Quality is independent of popularity. Sometimes it overlaps, sometimes it does not. My point is that currently, it doesn't. So I'll be a hipster as long as people keep watching garbage I could start another tangent along the lines of the classic "is quality subjective?" topic, but that is probably best reserved for another thread. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Pullman said: Unlike you, my taste tends to be more specific, as in I know what I tend to like and am not really all that interested in seeking out anime I might not like.I'm neither, or both. I'm just an anime fan with very broad taste. I'll take any incentive to watch and enjoy a show if it's from a genre I'm somewhat interested in and it makes me more excited to watch that show. Discovering hidden gems is a great motivator, as is popularity and critical acclaim. Tho tbh since my taste already is very broad I'm already interested in a lot of shows when they come out and it almost never happens that something goes under my radar and only popularity or critical acclaim make me interested in it. At best it usually makes a show a slightly higher priority for me than it already was, e.g. Kaguya-sama which I was always gonna watch but the reception and popularity made me slightly adjust my expectations. (Not arguing; just an observation.) Pullman said: I think this is a reasonable assessment of how people actually decide whether/how much they're interested in a show.[People] will decide interest based on the synopsis and stuff, with the level of popularity or the general receptions then being able to slightly nudge the expectations or hype levels in one direction or the other, but not fundamentally changing their interest in the show. Responses to hype may differ one way or another though, and it seems (according to OP's response to my post, correct me if I'm wrong @YossaRedMage) that that was the point of the thread. FWIW I definitely have cases where I decided to get around to watching a show that was already on my radar because a friend was posting about it. But it doesn't uniformly work for all shows; those posts would have had to tell me there was something about the show that'd appeal to me anyway. Pullman said: To be fair, the way I do this is by being too damn slow to get around to watching anything. :DAnd I do think that for the corner cases where the popularity does play a bigger role for them, it being an incentive to watch something is much more widespread than it making people avoid shows. Even 'hipsters' often watch those popular shows to have an opinion on them, albeit a negative one. Really avoiding them is rare, @GlennMagusHarvey is one of the only people I know who does that frequently. Pullman said: Well I understand this feeling; it's just that it doesn't apply to me when it comes to enjoying anime.And like him I also can't really relate to that idea of wanting to 'enjoy things with other people' being a prime motivator for watching, well, anything. I like talking about anime with people, but it's a luxury, not even close to being one of the reasons why I watch them. Pullman said: Ah, this is something I don't like doing.I merely want to be entertained by what I watch while I watch it and once I'm done with watching something 90% of my interest in it will go away and I'll focus in on the next viewing experience. In contrast, I sometimes liken my discovering stories that are meaningful to me as "adding starts to my starry sky". I like stories that can move me, that can give me an interesting experience, one that I'll remember and treasure. I mean, yeah, how does that contradict what I said? You get moved and touched by a story WHILE you watch it, don't you? The interesting experience is the actual viewing experience, right? It's exactly that viewing experience that I also value, remember and treasure. 'Being entertained' is just an all-encompassing term I used for the whole range of things that a show can make you feel. It wasn't meant to be limited to superficial entertainment. The emphasis was more on the 'viewing experience', on what it made me feel while I watched it compared to what it makes me feel when I look back after I finished it and know the ending (or the lack of it). I just like being really present while I watch something, experiencing it in the here and now instead of having the bulk of my experience of how I process the show and store it in memory happen after I watch it, with retroactive analysis or reviews, endless discussion about details, engrossing myself in fanart or fanfiction etc... I just don't value these peripheral, retroactive activities as much as other people. I feel for many people the core of how they memorize a show happens after the fact, when they look back on it, while for me the bulk of my experience with a show and how I store it in my memory is the actual viewing experience, how it impacted me at any given moment of the viewing process. KNowing the full picture after I watched the whole show might give me a different perspective on a certain episode, but it doesn't negate the initial experience. I'm more likely to base my opinion on that initial experience than on the retrospective one, and that's what I mean by not looking back too much and my interest waning. It doesn't mean my appreciation for the show goes away or I don't treasure it, on the contrary. Two (three) examples on how this makes a difference might help you understand what I'm trying to say: |
AlcoholicideJul 24, 2019 11:14 AM
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| Personally, I get most excited for something score wise when its polarizing, because that's how the stuff I like best tends to be recieved. Even if I don't like it, highly polarizing scores tend to mean theres some sort of intense emotional content that is either really moving people or pissing them off, and I'm always interested in something that will surprise me. I don't like most popular anime, but I also don't like most anime/movies/books/anything because I have very specific taste and am very selective with what I watch. Popularity isnt much of a factor, but I actually am interested in things that are getting hype or critical acclaim. So guess I'm a sheep then. Though I would never watch something because its popular over something I'm more interested in. |
ChromephoneJul 24, 2019 12:14 PM
| Sheep, or at least partially. If an anime has a lot of hype or just a lot of people talking about it it's obviously more likely to fall under my radar. And if it's highly regarded might as well check it out. That applies for bad reputation too, if everyone's shitting on something I wanna see for myself how bad it is. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy unpopular/lesser known anime. Hell my taste pretty much perfectly reflects this. My favorite anime (JoJo) is one of the most popular out there, meanwhile my second favorite (Tsuritama) is hardly ever talked about. |
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