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Poll: Hibike! Euphonium 2 Episode 12 Discussion


Dec 23, 2016 8:21 PM
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Shuuichi has been described as "respectful". Does this scene really sound respectful? Respectful of her opinions. Respectful of her person?
S1,E8
K: Eeeheh
S: Ah, there you are.
K: What?
S: What? yourself Just now, you gave me a signal.
K: Me? No I didn’t.
S: Yes you did. You looked at me and then went out by yourself.
K: How could that be a signal?
S: Wouldn’t you think it is?

Before Kumiko grabs an arm of the first person who exits. Any arm will do ... does the following train of thought ever enter his mind?

Hmm. Our eyes met and she left the room. But, she says it wasn't a signal for me to follow her out. What then could she have meant by leaving? Did she just come to the sinks to drain her spit valve?
She doesn't seem too interested in talking to me even now though .... oh crap ... Was she perhaps trying to get away from me?

Did the shoe ever drop in the way it might have for Kumiko a little later at the lockers? Impossible, right?

“When did I turn into some creep who would corner a girl alone like that? ooohh what did I just do? ... and I wouldn’t even accept her explanation that I had truly misunderstood the situation …”

S: "Ah so." [too bad we don't have an audio recording of the respectful way he expressed himself in that moment.]

Did that really sound like he accepted "No" for an answer?

Why should he? Right? We know she doesn't mean it? Right?

"I could hear my classmates talking inside the room but no one came out and he just kept insisting. Why is he doing this to me?"

Unreasonable to imagine the scenario like that, right? Unjustifiable leaps. All about keeping things in perspective.

Pan's pipes. Can they really be seen as his tribute to Syrinx? The two have been associated for millennia, is that how she would have wanted to have their relationship remembered? Fictional characters. Designed to make us think while they entertain...

Water under the bridge.


This criticism is directed at the author and animators, though. It is they who’ve designed a narrative in which that scene was incorporated so that people could later deny that the perspective I’ve been offering on it is the proper way to look at this series, this scene and his role in it.

I don’t like his personality but I especially don’t like how they were set up, from that first bench scene onward.
It was made clear that she was never supposed to say no. It was telegraphed that she was never going to be allowed to have been permanent in her rejection of his advances. He’s supposedly a nice boy. They’ve known each other since birth. Why wouldn’t she want to go out with him?

Yes of course. One way of seeing that scene is that the girl behaved that way because she knows her new best girl friend wants to date him. The poor boy is blameless in that.
Oh, no. sorry. Nobody is perfect in this series. The boys have flaws too. … and this isn’t about romance anyway so why are you so hung up on the fact that she was always meant to start dating this guy despite an entire series worth of assurances from the girl herself that she had no desires towards him in that direction?

K: No, I really like him and he is very important to me but I don’t want to date him and that’s all you guys ever assume about us … and that’s making it all very uncomfortable for me to be here right now .. and awkward to be around him as well. He’s also always looking for opportunities to ask me out and, to be honest, I feel bad about avoiding him. I like the clip but I know what the flower means and he doesn't. Could you please stop encouraging him like that?

Kumiko deliberately calling him out and telling Shuuichi such thoughts directly to his face would in my opinion be a very nice way to demonstrate how open and honest Kumiko can now be with her feelings - but that’s probably not where we are headed. I wish we were. Have been since S1, E1.
Modified by VersoSciolto, Dec 23, 2016 9:45 PM
 
Dec 24, 2016 3:58 AM
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VersoSciolto said:
Shuuichi has been described as "respectful". Does this scene really sound respectful? Respectful of her opinions. Respectful of her person?
S1,E8
K: Eeeheh
S: Ah, there you are.
K: What?
S: What? yourself Just now, you gave me a signal.
K: Me? No I didn’t.
S: Yes you did. You looked at me and then went out by yourself.
K: How could that be a signal?
S: Wouldn’t you think it is?

Before Kumiko grabs an arm of the first person who exits. Any arm will do ... does the following train of thought ever enter his mind?

Hmm. Our eyes met and she left the room. But, she says it wasn't a signal for me to follow her out. What then could she have meant by leaving? Did she just come to the sinks to drain her spit valve?
She doesn't seem too interested in talking to me even now though .... oh crap ... Was she perhaps trying to get away from me?

Did the shoe ever drop in the way it might have for Kumiko a little later at the lockers? Impossible, right?

“When did I turn into some creep who would corner a girl alone like that? ooohh what did I just do? ... and I wouldn’t even accept her explanation that I had truly misunderstood the situation …”

S: "Ah so." [too bad we don't have an audio recording of the respectful way he expressed himself in that moment.]

Did that really sound like he accepted "No" for an answer?

Why should he? Right? We know she doesn't mean it? Right?

"I could hear my classmates talking inside the room but no one came out and he just kept insisting. Why is he doing this to me?"

Unreasonable to imagine the scenario like that, right? Unjustifiable leaps. All about keeping things in perspective.

Pan's pipes. Can they really be seen as his tribute to Syrinx? The two have been associated for millennia, is that how she would have wanted to have their relationship remembered? Fictional characters. Designed to make us think while they entertain...

Water under the bridge.


This criticism is directed at the author and animators, though. It is they who’ve designed a narrative in which that scene was incorporated so that people could later deny that the perspective I’ve been offering on it is the proper way to look at this series, this scene and his role in it.

I don’t like his personality but I especially don’t like how they were set up, from that first bench scene onward.
It was made clear that she was never supposed to say no. It was telegraphed that she was never going to be allowed to have been permanent in her rejection of his advances. He’s supposedly a nice boy. They’ve known each other since birth. Why wouldn’t she want to go out with him?

Yes of course. One way of seeing that scene is that the girl behaved that way because she knows her new best girl friend wants to date him. The poor boy is blameless in that.
Oh, no. sorry. Nobody is perfect in this series. The boys have flaws too. … and this isn’t about romance anyway so why are you so hung up on the fact that she was always meant to start dating this guy despite an entire series worth of assurances from the girl herself that she had no desires towards him in that direction?

K: No, I really like him and he is very important to me but I don’t want to date him and that’s all you guys ever assume about us … and that’s making it all very uncomfortable for me to be here right now .. and awkward to be around him as well. He’s also always looking for opportunities to ask me out and, to be honest, I feel bad about avoiding him. I like the clip but I know what the flower means and he doesn't. Could you please stop encouraging him like that?

Kumiko deliberately calling him out and telling Shuuichi such thoughts directly to his face would in my opinion be a very nice way to demonstrate how open and honest Kumiko can now be with her feelings - but that’s probably not where we are headed. I wish we were. Have been since S1, E1.


The problem here stands with KyoAni keeping some scenes in the adaptation while twisting the characters' reactions. It is indeed weird how Shuuichi acts like he doesn't notice that Kumiko doesn't want to have anything to do with him: but that's because his behaviour wasn't changed from the novels, while Kumiko's was; so the narrative keeps on going the same way, but the interactions are all over the place. They could have just cut those scenes, or even the character, it would have been more consistent. But we're talking about a couple of scenes, after all, not even 1% of the anime, so no big deal.
 
Dec 24, 2016 4:20 AM

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wow many tears moments in this episode, please make Shuichi x Kumiko comes true in the last episode, btw that moment when Kumiko talked to her sister is adorable and so touching....
.
 
Dec 24, 2016 5:26 AM

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I do not believe it myself in victory, but gave almost assume a more realistic placement, just because in recent years, various anime, I have used to such situations. The narrative does not reserve strong emotions, but it is still fun to follow. I can not wait to follow the new course with Reina and Kumiko, and without Haruka and Asuka.

shanimebib said:
Azukano said:
Is this really the last episode? Cause it says on the main anime page that this show is 13 episodes?


Episode 13 is the epilogue of the entire anime.

My absolute favourite screenshot of the episode:



Mamiko is standing on the bridge and Kumiko just stopped few steps from the bridge. This could have been in any place. But no. Kyoto Animation decided to put the scene on a bridge. Two sisters, one who has started to cross the bridge and another is yet to start but is almost there. How they manage to think of such scenes leaves me at awe and appreciate their work more than any other studios.

No anime, absolutely no anime can match what Kyoto Animation can do with the surroundings, the place and the timing that make them stand head and shoulders above other studios when it comes to directing. :)


To tell the truth, I had not made any idea of this scene, but in terms of how you put it, the thought that if they can deduce, is plausible.
 
Dec 24, 2016 6:33 AM

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mangakam said:
shanimebib said:
Giving it some thought, Kumiko figures it out why's she is feeling like that.


Is it because of Suiichi or not at all ?



If I had to guess, it's because the third years are graduating and she's alone at home now that Mamiko's left. But maybe I'm going to eat those words.
All girls are best girls.
 
Dec 24, 2016 6:59 AM

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Is she alone ?? ^^ and Reina, Hazuki, Sapphire, Mizore, Natsuki, sorry but I do not call it alone.

So Kumiko would be sad because Asuka leaves because it is the only one in the third year she knows well, no it can not be that.
Modified by mangakam, Dec 24, 2016 7:04 AM
 
Dec 24, 2016 7:32 AM

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mangakam said:
Is she alone ?? ^^ and Reina, Hazuki, Sapphire, Mizore, Natsuki, sorry but I do not call it alone.

So Kumiko would be sad because Asuka leaves because it is the only one in the third year she knows well, no it can not be that.


There's a difference between being alone and feeling alone.
All girls are best girls.
 
Dec 24, 2016 7:40 AM

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Yes gomennasai I know it very well but I have difficulty to admit your hypothesis, Let me keep hope in relation to Suiichi ^^ although I think we will not see Suiichi in this last episode.
 
Dec 24, 2016 7:50 AM

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^ That's why I've said I might be wrong. I've not read the novels after all. Maybe she realizes that's not true: she's gathered a quite a lot of friends in the past few months. Only that Asuka, whom she's just befriended recently, leaves (and I don't think she's going to live with her mother anymore, so she won't be nearby). And of course, there's Shuuichi, who lives next door and she knows him since childhood, yet they're barely talking to each other.
All girls are best girls.
 
Dec 24, 2016 1:05 PM

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starrybee said:

But damn, Reina is an embarrassment. Every time she confessed I got second hand embarrassment. She's been a joke this whole season with her Taki obsession. I loved her in the first season but now I just wish she'd just disappear. What a creep.

This. Embarrassing.
 
Dec 24, 2016 5:37 PM
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thelumpur said:

The problem here stands with KyoAni keeping some scenes in the adaptation while twisting the characters' reactions. It is indeed weird how Shuuichi acts like he doesn't notice that Kumiko doesn't want to have anything to do with him: but that's because his behaviour wasn't changed from the novels, while Kumiko's was; so the narrative keeps on going the same way, but the interactions are all over the place. They could have just cut those scenes, or even the character, it would have been more consistent. But we're talking about a couple of scenes, after all, not even 1% of the anime, so no big deal.
I'm not sure I agree with the percentage you give here. To me it seems like some of the problems arise from the changes in the music during adaptation, from the novels to the animated series. The characters weren't fully adjusted to the thematic changes those exchanges of compositions should have indicated. I haven't read the novels but I get the impression that the sources of Takeda's inspiration were also watered down a bit from the original myths and legends which are the inspiration for the composers of that music.

If Shuuichi and Kumiko are indeed modern Japanese equivalents of Daphnis and Chloe then the whole story seems to fit. The covert confirmation went missing when Ravel's piece based on that story was removed from the repertoire during adaptation. It also seems to me that many of the original cast weren't included when the adventures that kept the predestined lovers apart were adapted for this series and that might have been an issue that already existed in Takeda's writing. There are fewer suitors for the two protagonists selected from within the cast of the concert band, their school or the city of Kyoto at large and Uji specifically - which provide the main settings for their story.
These kids were always going to end up together and they were never supposed to aspire to leave this place.

In the beginning, Taki-sensei a Japanese man could be be Offenbach's Orphee. His Eurydice is confirmed later in the series but he is a Japanese man and the setting for the reveal in the first episode is very Japanese. For the kids he encounters before he gets in his French car he usefully not only reveals the nature of the music coming from his dropped player but also the hierarchy in the luck charms he overhears the young couple discussing. Daikichi is right up there among the luckiest of straws which can be drawn within this setting. Homophonically it is also the name of a small hill within Uji, Kyoto. Reina Kousaka is a very fortunate girl from that very Japanese city. Her name can be translated to "queen of a small hill". Arguably the highlight of the series is the night she spends atop Mt. Daikichi but she is not content with her life or that small hill. We see her visiting twice. Once to seduce the unsuspecting Kumiko (Chloe) and teach her some lessons. Painful but she neither fears pain nor does she shy away from inflicting it. Once they return to confirm for Kumiko that it was Taki all along who was the object of her desires. The second person she has been trying to seduce. This malcontent not satisfied with her station in life though she is a very privileged girl with good parents and a comfortable home filled with anything an aspiring musician could want. Not content with her life and worst of all not content with her own personal hill within the capital of traditional Japanese culture. Taki-sensei has the club perform a fictional piece of Japanese music, an original composition created for the series, The Crescent Moon Dance, a piece of music pointing to the sky. What if he isn't portraying Orpheus but a Japanese equivalent? What if one of the lessons is that Reina should not have desired to leave this faux pinnacle of Uji? This low hill but the closest she'll ever come to reaching heaven. Should she be content with this? Should Kumiko ever have been sympathetic with this young misguided woman who already has it all - but who is not content and tries to separate those who were destined for each other. Stars aligned. Briefly. Ultimately, it seems she was not able to disturb either couple. Taki will leave Kitauji when the advisor he replaced returns from maternity leave. Reina will remain and should consider herself fortunate and so should we for her failure to achieve any of her arrogant goals.

Maybe Reina was always set up to be the one who embarrasses so many by making a public spectacle of her misguided love. A young woman whose musical ambitions, or how her playing of her instrument was transformed by those experiences was never to be shown or heard in this semi-finale. Her way out of Uji by way of trumpet solo at the Nationals. A woman reduced to being the object of mild mockery and vicious public ridicule. Your audience awaits. All the world's your stage.

Daikyo, big curse, can also be seen as good fortune, in that drawing it is so rare that it too becomes something to cherish. Something for which to be grateful. Not many people are lucky enough to receive an Omikuj like that. Taki-sensei is blessed by the gods with the fate of his wife. It may seem like misfortune but is it really? Why tempt the fates by trying to retrieve what is already lost? Why question the gods about your own lot in life? Taki-sensei challenges certain conventions which he perhaps should not have disturbed.
Reina apologizes for her solo to the person who should have been on that stage in this scenario. Kaori's final chance as a third year. Yet an other person whose place Reina took undeservedly by upsetting the natural balance. A conflict stemming from not respecting her elders.

Does all of that make sense? If so, can we wonder how much of that was always the original message, of the original author and of the animators with whom she collaborated to create this series.

[Maybe they're just saving the performance at nationals for a film produced with its own budget for theatrical release ... and that would do away with some of these speculative notes. Not unheard of.]
Modified by VersoSciolto, Dec 24, 2016 7:15 PM
 
Dec 25, 2016 12:25 AM
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I'm not keen on this Yuri schtick but I always jokingly support it. But now real ships are set to sail. And Taki-sensei you monster, how can you leave my sweet angel suspended like that, give her hints damn it.
 
Dec 25, 2016 2:13 AM

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Kumiko and Shuuichi and their families' situation:


 
Dec 25, 2016 4:01 AM

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The salt is real, the Yuri is a lie.

Probably the best episode out of all so far. :)
 
Dec 25, 2016 7:18 PM
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shanimebib said:
Kumiko and Shuuichi and their families' situation:]...

Ultimately it is all made up. You sketch a plausible scenario and it is indeed most likely how we are supposed to see it. But ... a lot of that is still inference. Even at this point in the story there are a lot of things we don't know about their situation. The first meetings precede the first act and have only been illuminated through spotlighted glimpses in flashback. What if those glimpses too were designed to be deceptive? What if your perception is also not accurate? Even if you can predict the plot and the ultimate outcome, it is possible that those are not the real or only messages being delivered. It is possible to see them in a different light. Is that worth considering? What if the way the story concludes is not the conclusion? Would a writer be capable enough to manipulate the audience into this position? What if the whole point was to have people not just read and watch but think things through and offer alternate interpretations. Passionately. Abrasively. What if the main point is to invite the conversation?

Most people were spoiled by their own curiosity or by people who felt the audience should be forewarned about the nature of one particularly element of the story. An element the spoilers nevertheless keep insisting isn't the main point. Why spoil it then? Why reveal something supposedly so insignificant that it can be brushed aside as supposedly irrelevant? Let me spoil the ending so that you don't spoil the experience for yourselves? Was that the idea behind all the cleverly disguised hints and open revelations?

A young couple from Verona sits down in an almost deserted theater. It is a very familiar tale and most people have at least heard of it before. An elderly audience member spots the two love birds, notices their excitement and leans over. Have you seen this play before? They shyly shake their heads in unison. A little puzzled and peeved by the intrusion into their first date together in public. Finally alone. Encouraged by their response the grizzled audience member follows through and says: "They love each other but due to circumstances are not allowed to stay together and In the end they both die young due to misunderstandings .. but don't worry, that isn't the main point of their story. It may look like a romance but it is not you see. You two remind me a little of the main couple in the play, except you're both ... , well never mind that, Enjoy the performance girls".

Was the temptation too much at times?

You labeled not picking up on hints, "almost criminal". What then would you call the posts by people whose comments celebrate the possibility that the ending might have put people on suicide watch?

They had it coming? They did it to themselves? What were they expecting anyway? Shouldn't they have known better? We even tried to warn them...

Was it all so that those who posted the spoilers could enjoy the story in private. Not bothered by people whose existence they'd rather forget? It was never about that, right?

Is a suggestive comment like that unfair?


Modified by VersoSciolto, Dec 25, 2016 8:28 PM
 
Dec 25, 2016 8:16 PM
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Sorely disappointed that they completely skipped the performance that they've been building up to all season. I understand it is a character-driven show, but the performance was a major plot-point that the show was centered around and I think it's something that deserved to be included. In this series, as I said before, it is heavily character-driven, but not strictly reliant on characters. There is a structure to the narrative and up until this point it has all been the rising action pointing to a climax. Also, the characters have goals and passions, primarily being the competition. By removing the climax that the characters, that we have grown to love, have been working towards, I feel that the writers belittle the importance of the driving motivations of the characters.
 
Dec 25, 2016 9:53 PM

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@VersoSciolto: I won't reveal how much of it is made up and how much of it is actually from the original story and that was also the reason I put it inside a spoiler tag.

I didn't force anyone to click it. It's one's own choice whether they are tempted by it or not. I could ignore everything you said but I won't.

I really don't care what a group of fans think. Seriously, I simply don't. What matters the most to me is how I depict the story and how I enjoy it and I am glad that I really do. I am not here to please everyone.

As for the music part, I know that is not something I have much exposure to so I refrain from making any comment on it. Nice analogy nevertheless from your part.

 
Dec 25, 2016 10:33 PM
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... but even the original story is also made up. It is a written creation from experiences, inspirations and the imaginative mind of an author - now animated for TV and Cinema. It too is a work of fiction, which we are at liberty and perhaps even under obligation to critically assess.

You write: "I really don't care what a group of fans think. Seriously, I simply don't." ... there were those earlier words addressed to those whose interpretations diverged from your own though. Forgive me for taking them out of their element once again by themselves but these are your words: "almost criminal". For not seeing what you saw you wrote that about the thoughts of some fans.

Please don't think I hold myself above reproach or that my objective is to rob anyone of their enjoyment. By questioning the author -female- I’ve committed an act I've protested quite loudly myself. I've openly doubted her objections. Interpreted her public denials as a mere inconvenience to the point I’d like to make. Ayano Takeda said No. I heard Yes.

... But isn’t that what she invites us to do through her heroine? Fictional Kumiko repeatedly says no. In commentary on this series I've now heard it said that she protests too much. Protesting too much means she means the opposite of what she says. The more you protest the less likely your protests are to be believed. That is an idiom, in several languages. Should we make it an axiom? Words to live by. Quite a conundrum. By suggesting that this woman’s words mean the opposite of what she says I’ve become my own worst nightmare. It is not wrong to question the writings of authors. It is -as are their writings and oral traditions- the foundation of our cultures. I too have posted spoilers. Both open and behind tags. Mea culpa.

If you have the time read up on Daphnis and Chloe. I think you'll enjoy it and I think it is pertinent to the understanding of the Hibike story - or at least these comments. We don't get to hear Ravel. What does his substitution, Borodin, imply? Perhaps we can have that conversation some other time.

Modified by VersoSciolto, Dec 25, 2016 11:10 PM
 
Dec 25, 2016 11:51 PM

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PV is out:



From what I got out with my extremely limited Japanese, it's going to focus on Asuka. But perhaps it's another Kyoani trickery.
All girls are best girls.
 
Dec 26, 2016 12:02 AM
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Fantastic episode, though the lack of a performance (that we got to see, at least) was a bit disappointing. I'm looking forward to seeing how the show wraps everything up next episode.
Pie is delicious.

 
Dec 26, 2016 12:32 AM

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gomennasai said:
PV is out:



From what I got out with my extremely limited Japanese, it's going to focus on Asuka. But perhaps it's another Kyoani trickery.


Regarding another trickery:


 
Dec 26, 2016 1:01 AM

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From the PV:




"(I) was thinking about Asuka-senpai"

"Are you feeling lonely?"

"Towards an important place"

"Because it is strange"

"Then I won't say it"

"I am not going towards it"

"Were you looking for me?"

"I used to dislike Senpai"

"And yet that was (a) nice (place)"
"Is that what (you) wanted to say?"

"You had something to do with Asuka?"
"Did something happen with Asuka?" (A bit more accurate)

"Saying farewell doesn't hurt"
"I don't want to say goodbye"

Of course, the context may change depending on what was said before or after the lines but that's pretty much what I got from the PV.

Edit: Corrected by Neromon.
Modified by shanimebib, Dec 26, 2016 1:36 AM

 
Dec 26, 2016 1:18 AM

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shanimebib said:
gomennasai said:
PV is out:



From what I got out with my extremely limited Japanese, it's going to focus on Asuka. But perhaps it's another Kyoani trickery.


Regarding another trickery:



That sounds sweet! Wednesday can't come soon enough :D
All girls are best girls.
 
Dec 26, 2016 1:23 AM

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shanimebib said:
From the PV:




"(I) was thinking about Asuka-senpai"

"Are you feeling lonely?"

"Towards an important place"

"Because it is strange"

"Then I won't say it"

"I am not going towards it"

"Were you looking for me?"

"I used to dislike Senpai"

"And yet that was (a) nice (place)"

"You had something to do with Asuka?"

"Saying farewell doesn't hurt"

Of course, the context may change depending on what was said before or after the lines but that's pretty much what I got from the PV.


I think the last 3 lines are incorrect

"Is that what (you) wanted to say?"

"Did something happen with Asuka?" (A bit more accurate)

"I don't want to say goodbye" (it was 言いたくない (iitakunai) not 痛くない (itakunai))


shanimebib said:
gomennasai said:
PV is out:



From what I got out with my extremely limited Japanese, it's going to focus on Asuka. But perhaps it's another Kyoani trickery.


Regarding another trickery:



Omg this makes me so happy. So they aren't adapting any short stories from volume 4?
Modified by Neromon, Dec 26, 2016 1:27 AM
 
Dec 26, 2016 1:29 AM

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Neromon said:
I think the last 3 lines are incorrect

"Is that what (you) wanted to say?"

"Did something happen with Asuka?" (A bit more accurate)

"I don't want to say goodbye" (it was 言いたくない (iitakunai) not 痛くない (itakunai))


Ah! Thanks for the corrections. I just typed in what I got. The BGM is also a bit distracting. It makes more sense now that you have corrected them.

Neromon said:
Omg this makes me so happy. So they aren't adapting any short stories from volume 4?


There hasn't been any announcement of any sort so I don't know. Kumiko is shown wearing her scarf so you never know!
Personally I will be happy if the anime gets the recognition it deserves. Maybe an OVA to cover vol. 4 or Marching Band of Rikka Koukou? Takeda herself suggested Azusa's story is probably her best written story yet. :)

Speaking of expectations, now that the bar is set kind of high, I am wondering.

shanimebib said:
I shall remember this episode for the rest of my life.


Am I gonna use this same line again?
Modified by shanimebib, Dec 26, 2016 1:53 AM

 
Dec 26, 2016 10:26 PM
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VersoSciolto said:
... Taki-sensei has the club perform a fictional piece of Japanese music, an original composition created for the series, The Crescent Moon Dance, a piece of music pointing to the sky....
… but more specifically to the moon and its phases. What if there is some poetic symbolism there? We are free to speculate but are there any indications beyond Asuka's brief exposition on the celebratory notes the composition is supposed to convey? The performance piece not repeated this episode. Are we free to let our minds wonder with the assistance of guides better acquainted with such matters and this region? The original author and those involved in the adaptation process can be assumed to be somewhat familiar with the town were the series is set, where Takeda grew up and the Kyoani studio is located. What if the series pays homage to its heritage but is not content with mere praise and also perhaps challenges novel interpretations or at least offers commentary. Is there something more you'd like to share or have I veered too far from the point you wanted to address with your comment?

The phases of the moon and the title of the performance piece... is there perhaps a connection with Murasaki Shikibu? Arguably Uji's best known historical figure, though she has some competition.

Meguri-ahite
mishi ya sore tomo
wakanu ma ni
kumo-gakurenishi
yoha no tsuki-kage *

Possibly her most well known poem. What does it mean and does its meaning and symbolism have anything to do with the series, its characters or its music? If so, are there any additional hints about the perspective this series of adapted novels provides?

* Transliteration taken from "Pictures of the Heart" by Joshua Mostow.


Edit to add:
I guess what I'm asking is: Should the animated series stand on its own, should we take the novels into consideration or do we subjectt them to comparative analysis - with each other and perhaps with other possible sources of inspiration as well?

At the very beginning of the series the goals of the club are put to a vote. Which Kumiko do we count when tallying the votes? Do we count the Kumiko who voted or do we count the Kumiko who abstained? Do we pick one or is she perhaps a composite of both in her further stances and actions? Do we see the Kumiko as a different person based on her vote or what motivated her in each case in that specific moment? Does an example like that affect the 1% you offered? It seems to me a rather fundamental change in her character although textually only a few words and just one action needed to be changed in adaptation.
Should her character in each version of the story stand on its own and thus be evaluated only for her thoughts and actions as shown in the animated series?
Modified by VersoSciolto, Dec 26, 2016 11:59 PM
 
Dec 27, 2016 5:30 AM

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Did they seriously skip over the performance, wtf was that, I mainly watch this show for the music and this was very disappointing. Overall this season has been worse than season 1, in terms of animation, pacing, character interactions.
Modified by alpha_shadow, Dec 27, 2016 5:34 AM
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Dec 27, 2016 5:52 AM

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alpha_shadow said:
Did they seriously skip over the performance, wtf was that, I mainly watch this show for the music and this was very disappointing. Overall this season has been worse than season 1, in terms of animation, pacing, character interactions.
yea i also watch this coz of music
this season so far has 1 music episode and 11 family and relationship melodrama that has nothing to do with music episode
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Dec 27, 2016 7:08 AM

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I would have loved to watch their entire performance but sadly that wasn't meant to be. But I do think the result (bronze) works well with the setting at the end, even silver would have done the group justice. Had the team won gold, it just wouldn't have the same magical feel.
 
Dec 27, 2016 7:44 AM

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and I thought this is the last episode... Reina confessing in that kind of situation is awesome
 
Dec 27, 2016 8:23 AM

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Goodness, I'm so glad we're down to the last episode, Damn you kyoani for ruining Reina's characterization, when i die i want kyoani to lower me into my grave so they can let me down one last time.

The PV looks safe so I guess no kumiko and shuuichi end too, which is a good thing cause that's just gonna add insult to a serious injury.

I'm fucking tired of seeing comments badmouthing reina, I can understand you but please stop it. She can go fall for Kumiko's dad and I think I'll still like her the same. Best grill since season 1.
 
Dec 27, 2016 8:25 AM

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Honestly even if it is yuribait it has always made more sense and had more in-depth thought to it than these crappy sloppily-revealed "ships" that are sailing. Reina is now reduced to a blubbering idiot and Shuichi finally gets to have more than one line but even then it's all questions and awkward pauses. If you ask me, the ReinaxKumiko thing will ALWAYS have better detail and rationality than whatever other pairing ends up happening in the show.
 
Dec 27, 2016 11:55 AM

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GangsterCat said:
alpha_shadow said:
Did they seriously skip over the performance, wtf was that, I mainly watch this show for the music and this was very disappointing. Overall this season has been worse than season 1, in terms of animation, pacing, character interactions.
yea i also watch this coz of music
this season so far has 1 music episode and 11 family and relationship melodrama that has nothing to do with music episode

Hibikie Euphonium was never about music, it's about drama and character development.
Seriously, I thought people would have already realized this at this point.

Also, showing the last performance would only make sense if they won gold... but they didn't. So no, no point in showing it.
 
Dec 27, 2016 11:58 AM

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Mike_McFly said:
GangsterCat said:
yea i also watch this coz of music
this season so far has 1 music episode and 11 family and relationship melodrama that has nothing to do with music episode

Hibikie Euphonium was never about music, it's about drama and character development.
Seriously, I thought people would have already realized this at this point.

Also, showing the last performance would only make sense if they won gold... but they didn't. So no, no point in showing it.
never about music hehehe ahhahaha
CrossAnge
 
Dec 27, 2016 1:28 PM

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I'm glad that the writer of the series left a bunch of room for more novels. Hopefully we'll see more. A lot of the scenes were quite beautiful. One thing that they could have improved upon is the Kumiko x Shuuichi pairing. It slightly forced, but second thought, I remember that there was quite a bit of development last season. Ah Idk; in this season, the only real significant scene of Kumiko x Shuuichi before the whole hairpin scene was the haunted house scene. I wish they made it a little more convincing that Kumiko had some interest in Shuuichi. Other than that, aforesaid, wowee. A lot of touching scenes.
 
Dec 27, 2016 5:42 PM

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Aww, they lost. It was still kinda a bittersweet episode nonetheless. Hoping for a great finale~
"We know the flower petals will fall someday, and yet we're still entranced by them."
 
Dec 27, 2016 7:08 PM
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Kitoge said:
Lol why is Kumiko so mean to Shuuichi. She shrugged him off so so so hard this episode. Damn what a vicious savage. Reina may have found more about Taki-sensei. OH BOY.
Kumiko treats the boy horribly, that seems to be the prevailing view, no wonder he has no interest in what she has to say for herself most of the time.

Flashback. Remember when Kumiko walks through the train station, lost in her own thoughts, air practicing her fingerings on her imaginary euphonium, Shuuichi stops her. “Don’t ignore me” he says, as if having other things on her mind besides him is unacceptable. He is right, the audience concedes as we near the end of the series. Sorry Shuuichi we'll collectively apologise on her behalf. She never meant to say no to you. She can be honest now. Promise. In his presence her time and thoughts belong to him. Go apologise and don’t disappoint him anymore, Kumiko. He’s such a nice considerate boy and she is so mean to him… wait… what? How does the above flashback scene make him the considerate one?

Kitoge said:
I'm glad that the writer of the series left a bunch of room for more novels. Hopefully we'll see more. A lot of the scenes were quite beautiful. One thing that they could have improved upon is the Kumiko x Shuuichi pairing. It slightly forced, but second thought, I remember that there was quite a bit of development last season. Ah Idk; in this season, the only real significant scene of Kumiko x Shuuichi before the whole hairpin scene was the haunted house scene. I wish they made it a little more convincing that Kumiko had some interest in Shuuichi. Other than that, aforesaid, wowee. A lot of touching scenes.


Doesn't it seem more like a logical conclusion that his approaches to her as shown in both seasons have left her with little interest? Based on how he treats her, they can be friends, he can be useful at times but why would she want to date this boy?
 
Dec 27, 2016 7:18 PM

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Reverberate said:
Aww, they lost. It was still kinda a bittersweet episode nonetheless. Hoping for a great finale~


Same here! I am hoping that the first and the second years will give the third years a good farewell present! :)

 
Dec 28, 2016 5:18 AM
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Kousaka went all the way this episode till the point where she got embarrassed which was cute.
Anyway with that out of the way the question that remains is what will happen next seeing as the third years will leave.
Next episode might introduce some new characters, at the ending of the anime no less.

Anyway Kumiko and her sister meeting again was also nice.
 
Dec 28, 2016 5:25 AM

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The attention to detail by KyoAni is astonishing. All the characters reactions and of course the bridge scene were perfect. I am mad to said that, but the scene between Kumiko and Shuichi was nice >.<.
This episode perfectly concluded the season, I laughed and cried (of joy and sadness) seeing Asuka be recognized and now leaving the band, or seeing Reina declaring herself. It's awesome.

Even the preparation phase before the concert seemed so natural. You made a great job, Kyoto Animation!
 
Dec 28, 2016 11:43 PM
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Lol at all the little pathetic dweebs cheering that their lame ship has sailed. The show had a great start in season 1 but devolved into trashy melodrama in season 2.

Either way, these are little high school girls, you f*ckin creeps. If anything, Kumiko might screw what's-his-face, but she will definitely find more interesting dudes in college. That beta nice guy's boring af.
 
Dec 29, 2016 1:17 PM

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Things which troubled me throughout the series so far. Katou and Sapphire are MCs. Katou and Sapphire are MCs. Katou and Sapphire are MCs. Please just remove them from the the MC status or give them some arcs so that my suffering can end. But I guess not.

Also Kumiko pls sleep.

Quality ShuKumi scenes. Perfect.

Yoroizoka being cute there.

REINA. WHAT A CONFESSION GAHHHH
One of the best confessions ever I love her. (tho I don't care much about this pairing) I love how Kumiko went "Re-" -reads her lips- and goes (Don't tell me- she's gonna confess...) -Reina does it- -Kumiko breathless with shock-

And Kumiko's VA. I love. Ofc Reina's too.

They got bronze. Gah. Kinda expected tho. The series was mor e of SoL than competetive.

He didn't even notice that she likes him as a guy and not teacher. Meh.

Haruka too cute with her breaking down.

Kumiko confessing her undying for her sis. I'm glad that they skipped the performance tbh. Dialogue all the way yay.
 
Dec 29, 2016 3:27 PM

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Man I'm so late to this party, but people were so salty I'm glad I was late. Would've hate to experience the salty in real time...

Anyway, I'm kinda disappointed and sad that they lost because it was the 3rd years last chance, well at least Asuka got some of what she was hoping for...

Why should I care about your opinion, when your opinion doesn't care about me?......
Why should I care about you, when you don't care about my opinion?......
 
Dec 30, 2016 2:09 AM
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i was so ready for a performance :'(
 
Dec 31, 2016 12:02 PM

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Dat confession :D

But I'm glad they even when they didn't win they ended on positive note. And realistically speaking, the third place is also good, especially for their first time being there.

Wonder how they'll wrap up in the last episode... season 3 possibility? (but we probably get just one movie to conclude everything).
 
Dec 31, 2016 6:22 PM

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I was a little bummed out that they got bronze. That was cute how Reina confessed to Taki and it's nice to see Kumiko on good terms with her sister.

 
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shanimebib said:
Ysad_Ziwezhan said:
Yuuko as president and Natsuki as vice-president was my bet, not that there was so many alternatives from the cast that was presented to us.


Even though I knew it from the novel, I thought so too. Also, Yuuko and Natsuki get along just fine as Riko points it out in the festival! They just don't want to admit it!

I still remember being the only one defending Yuuko in season 1:

shanimebib said:

Yuuko bowing to Reina. Kaori never got her chance.
I didn't really like Yuuko until she bowed to Reina. Bowing down to someone who is junior in rank/age in Japanese society is the highest form of sacrificing one's pride. Her actions were uncalled for, it is true, but you cannot deny the fact that she has decided to accept such humiliation for Kaori-senpai's sake, who never got her chance. The flashback is elaborated during this part when she was overlooked for the solo performance because it was decided by seniority. The flashback also includes how Kaori-senpai cared for her kouhai as she bowed for them. Yuuko noticed those things. But I am glad that Reina decided to stick with her belief that whoever better should play the part.

Some of the fans here wouldn't see beyond.
Yuuko and Kaori-senpai's little conversation before the audition was short-lived. But seeing Yuuko start running in tears (and bumping on to Natsuki) made me question how some fans decided to overlook something so warmly executed. They are both supporting characters, I know. And thus neither should be seen as important as Reina and Kumiko. But this girl here admired Kaori-senpai for valid reasons. She saw her senpai bowing for her sake, which made her not to hesitate to bow to Reina. She saw her being overlooked despite being the better one. Kick me on the teeth but I find it really hard to believe some fans rejoiced in her tears.


I am glad that she is much liked now. And I am sure everyone will accept her as the new prez, both the members of Kitauji Brass Band and Hibike! Euphonium fans!


You weren't the only one. I sympathized with Yuuko greatly in S1. Kaori meant a lot to her and she wanted to see her friend rewarded for her efforts. All you had to do was put yourself in her shoes. But yeah, it's nice that the audience loves her now.

Wonderful episode again. The scene with Kumiko and her sister at the end was absolutely beautiful. Couldn't help but tear up. This show has done an incredible job with character relationships.
 
Jan 6, 7:03 PM

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I was surprised to see them losing, but considering how 2nd and 3rd years haven't been practising that hard before, it makes sense they didn't win the gold, other teams looked a lot more serious. That's quite realistic!
During "confession" I even felt a bit embarassed for Reina, and I guess that's how far it goes this season... Then again, it's not that I thought she would end up with Taki-sensei.

Onto the last one!
 
Jan 8, 8:52 AM

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Everything was done exceptionally well besides us not seeing the performance which i really wanted to see due to it being the Nationals and all i had a picture in my head with a quality theater packed with thousands of people and top of the line animation but its cool they picked up well on the other aspects the realistic factor i admired alot
Thou must heed thine words "Knowledge is proud that he has learned so much. Wisdom is humble that he knows not more." - William Cowper

 
Jan 20, 9:46 PM

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No performance? Seriously? I was hoping a series about music would show...you know...the music. I mean it's not the shows fault, but this series has seriously betrayed my expectations.
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