Zankyou no Terror Episode 8 Discussion

Keten said:


I don't have a problem with that kind of storytelling when it is necessary. My question more so is what is the point of keeping this info a secret until the end? Keeping information such as the MC's motives away until the end seems really odd to me, I can't cheer for them because I don't know if they are good guys or not, all I have to go off of is they blow up buildings so I don't cheer for them. Then they are up against the evil government people, whom again, don't know why they are doing what they are doing so I cannot cheer for them either, I just see them as bad people as well. I am not asking them to spell it out for me, I am more so just asking for the basics here. Who are they and what do they want? Not saying I necessarily need the answers of both sides, but 1 side at least. Those questions let me feel immersed in the characters, either for or against them. It gives me a reason to follow them. Finding out why they are doing everything is fine but if it takes the entire series for me to start having a view of them, then that kind of fails doesn't it?

Giving hints throughout is okay, leaving out information that would benefit the immersion of a story just so it can have a different form of storytelling is not. I guess that's just my interpretation of it is all. I'll wait and see what exactly it was that they are keeping from us, but if it isn't something that truly needed to be kept a secret, then there was no point to keeping it a secret in the first place and only damaged my enjoyment of the show overall and stopped us from getting insight into the characters at an earlier stage and thus preventing us from getting to know them as MC's until the very end where it doesn't matter anymore.

I mean... Can you honestly say you are truly cheering for these guys? Or at the very least have some sort of idea of what you think of them? What happens if they win? We don't know. What happens if they lose? We don't know and we won't know until near the end of the series where there is little need for immersion anymore. That would be okay if they let us know that the characters don't know either(Like if they were forced to work towards something but didn't know what it was), but they do know.

Idunno, what do you think? This is the main issue I had with the show throughout. I'd like to get your view on it.

Keten said:

I don't have a problem with that kind of storytelling when it is necessary. My question more so is what is the point of keeping this info a secret until the end? Keeping information such as the MC's motives away until the end seems really odd to me, I can't cheer for them because I don't know if they are good guys or not, all I have to go off of is they blow up buildings so I don't cheer for them. Then they are up against the evil government people, whom again, don't know why they are doing what they are doing so I cannot cheer for them either, I just see them as bad people as well. I am not asking them to spell it out for me, I am more so just asking for the basics here. Who are they and what do they want? Not saying I necessarily need the answers of both sides, but 1 side at least. Those questions let me feel immersed in the characters, either for or against them. It gives me a reason to follow them. Finding out why they are doing everything is fine but if it takes the entire series for me to start having a view of them, then that kind of fails doesn't it?

Giving hints throughout is okay, leaving out information that would benefit the immersion of a story just so it can have a different form of storytelling is not. I guess that's just my interpretation of it is all. I'll wait and see what exactly it was that they are keeping from us, but if it isn't something that truly needed to be kept a secret, then there was no point to keeping it a secret in the first place and only damaged my enjoyment of the show overall and stopped us from getting insight into the characters at an earlier stage and thus preventing us from getting to know them as MC's until the very end where it doesn't matter anymore.

I mean... Can you honestly say you are truly cheering for these guys? Or at the very least have some sort of idea of what you think of them? What happens if they win? We don't know. What happens if they lose? We don't know and we won't know until near the end of the series where there is little need for immersion anymore. That would be okay if they let us know that the characters don't know either(Like if they were forced to work towards something but didn't know what it was), but they do know.

Idunno, what do you think? This is the main issue I had with the show throughout. I'd like to get your view on it.

ButNotForMe said:
Pretty sure Shibazaki is gonna die

Tankjan said:
While I was watching this episode, I got a thought, that I'd probably enjoyed this show much more, if it was a male-only story ('terrorists' vs. police forces).

Five is a pure cliche of a bad character and Lisa so far has done nothing, that would make me care about her future, so each time they are on the screen I feel like skipping few minutes.

Tho I'm still hoping for some big twist/surprise, that will change my opinion about this series.

pakoko said:

Incoming long response

pakoko said:
Even if Lisa hadn't answered the door, the bomb would have gone off anyway because the man probably would have left the bomb in front of the door.

Arw said:

Would he? I don't know how postal service works in other countries like Japan, but in mine the guy would leave information, that he tried to deliver the package, but didn't get to meet addressee. He would take the package with him (not leave it, so any random person can pick it up) to the post office or company he works in. That means - her stupidity might! have saved his life.

Keten said:

I will put my post in spoilers too then. lol Even if it isn't as long.

pakoko said:


Would he? I don't know how postal service works in other countries like Japan, but in mine the guy would leave information, that he tried to deliver the package, but didn't get to meet addressee. He would take the package with him (not leave it, so any random person can pick it up) to the post office or company he works in. That means - her stupidity might! have saved his life.

minouneetzoe said:
Being Lisa status : still suffering.
Poor Lisa, she never catch a break.

Five is so annoying. She's so stupid : ''You're life is worthless! That's why I'm so obscessed about it..?'' /s
The thing that annoy me the most his how much power she have. How can those people who seem to be agent go along with her childish crap? Seriously, she would be such a big diplomatic incident if that was happening in real life. If she could just die in the next episode and move on, it would be great.

The theory about Lisa being Shibazaki daughter has been crushed into piece. His daughter seem nice though.

BRK25 said:
My biggest question that I'm getting is Lisa's place.

If she's not a part of Shibazaki in any heritage, then there must be something going on that we don't know in the works. There's no way they put her in and has no service or use.

Waiting on that cinematography.

Kurini said:
Ugh, the ugly CG that doesn't fit the animation @00:10:02. I'm nitpicking.

Things are falling apart for Nine and Twelve. Twelve is being reckless. What can he possibly do alone against Five and all the polices. ><

Btw, the full version of the ED is out. :D

dokidokidoing said:
I hope you don't mind me giving my two cents about the show.

I like Lisa. I've never been part of an abusive household, but I have been bullied several times in the past, and I identify heavily with her desire to please, be useful and to fit in. I'll be the first to admit that that's an overpowering desire that doesn't always make you act rationally. The things I was doing in my early/mid-teens... you'd honestly think I should've known better (heh...). She's a lost kid trying to fit in with other lost kids, but the problem is that these other kids are facing circumstances that are way out of her depth- something that didn't fully hit her until this episode. People say that she doesn't really belong anywhere... I think that's kind of the point.

As for Five... I think her character actually makes sense considering the background we've been given. We know that she, Nine and Twelve were from an institution that essentially robbed them of their identities. Nine and Twelve escaped, but Five didn't, so I'm assuming that she completed whatever conditioning process that the institution offered. Because of that, Five's development and maturity has been messed up. Simply put, she's a unbalanced kid stuck in a more mature woman's body. I'd go out on a limb and say that Nine and Twelve would probably have ended up like her if they hadn't escaped. I think it's interesting to note that she chose to embrace this hollow, childish insanity- Nine implied that she could have escaped from the institution if she wanted to. The following is purely speculation, but maybe it's her way of making up for the loss of her previous identity. The show never struck me as being particularly realistic in the first place, so her character didn't really bother me.

At its core, I think Zankyou no Terror is a story about outcasts trying to connect with each other. As much as I enjoy how the show handles things thematically, and as much as I enjoy the visual storytelling (I think this is one of those shows where the visuals/cinematography/music are as important as the dialogue in helping viewers fill the blanks), it isn't perfect. I think it's obvious that Watanabe wanted the show to be equal parts psychological study/social commentary and action thriller, but he hasn't really succeeded in weaving those elements together. So he chooses to deal with them separately instead. Mind you, I think he deals with each individual topic well enough, but the narrative would have been smoother if he'd somehow meshed the two together. And I think this disjoint in the narrative isn't a recent problem- in my opinion, it was present even in the earlier episodes, though it manifested differently then.

pakoko said:


It's definitely refreshing to see your comment amongst comments that more or less all say the same thing about Lisa or Five. I definitely get that characters have been a problem for this show, but the main focus of this show is not necessarily about the characters' development. Some people are so caught up about Lisa doing something stupid or Five acting like a classic villain (what does that even mean?) that they're like "See? there she does it again!" like it matters hugely looking at the series as a whole. The show has so much more to offer than just its weak characters, like the story, great cinematography, beautiful animation, and amazing soundtrack that it doesn't make much sense to rate this show lowly because one (or two) character(s) ruins it for viewers.

Lisa was not supposed to be anyone special. I don't know what people's expectations were, but she wasn't supposed to be some super intelligent hacker or some secretly crazy arson. She's a completely average, softspoken girl that just happened to witness Nine and Twelve during the first bombing. Have you ever considered a scenario in which the protagonist is actually not that special? Put yourself in Lisa's shoes. If you were to be picked up by two skilled terrorists, chances are you'd mess up just like Lisa. Sometimes people are forgetting that we're not watching a shounen anime in which Lisa will develop some hidden ability. She's an outcast in a realistic society that is trying hard to fit in and do something right for a change, but keeps failing miserably. She's practically been doing nothing her whole life, but I guess people expected that she'll suddenly become a crazy good terrorist or develop into some strong, outspoken hero. She shouldn't be bashed on every single week for every single stupid thing she does, but I suggest that people wait to see or at least theorize why she's one of the main protagonists despite her being a VERY unlikely protagonist.

Five's circumstances are not known 100%. But like you said, she probably didn't want to become who she was right now. It's implied that she was experimented on with various drugs, and we see her suffering some withdrawal symptoms as a result of drug addiction or overdose. We get a glimpse of Five's true character this episode for the first time and people still hate her as a "classic villain" because of a couple mean things she said to Lisa. Rather, she only seems evil and psychotic because she is desperately trying to kill Nine and Twelve. We'll have to wait to see what her exact reasons are, but she's certainly suffering. It's like if she doesn't kill Nine and Twelve soon she'll die or experience something along the lines of death. She's been downright evil not caring about who she kills because whatever the consequences are of failing to kill Nine and Twelve is driving Five insane and making her fearful.

Well said on your last paragraph. Watanabe definitely isn't perfect in his execution of this show, and because he was trying to approach the psychological study/social commentary and action thriller together, it's understandable that he'd sacrifice characters to become more like plot devices in order to deliver a story strong enough for a 1-cour.