| I knew I couldn't take this thread seriously the second you mentioned Chi chi and Taiga as tsunderes |
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| classic annoying bitch vs modern annoying bitch To the garbage bin. |
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| I mean, it's okay if you have a lot of spare time on your hands, but I'm sure that jerking off would have been more productive than making this thread. Also, a classic trashy post by the faggot above me. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| Yeah yeah OP, we get it. No need for you to point out which good but I despised both. >Again, Taiga can't be classified as Tsundere, why does she always get mentioned by that archetype |
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
| Cancer vs Cancer To the trash they go |
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| Why isn't Taiga a tsundere? I've never been able to get a clear answer on that. |
Star_Slayer said: I second this question Why isn't Taiga a tsundere? I've never been able to get a clear answer on that. RnDNEET021 said: Yeah yeah OP, we get it. No need for you to point out which good but I despised both. >Again, Taiga can't be classified as Tsundere, why does she always get mentioned by that archetype Or Deknijff said: I knew I couldn't take this thread seriously the second you mentioned Chi chi and Taiga as tsunderes Please answer how/why taiga is not a thunders? |
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| @Extect @Star_Slayer Im sorry for quoting myself but its honestly the easiest thing to do Deknijff said: Taiga is not a tsundere yes she acts violent but thats not enough to make you a tsundere plus the one she was always attacking wasn't even the one she liked from the start. She mostly attacked only Ryuuji who'm she didn't even have feelings for at first people seem to forget that she was in love with Yuusaku who she always acted nice to and would calm down when he was close by  she even liked him so much she would stalk him and take pictures of him  now I'm sure some of you are going to bring up how she did this after falling in love with Ryuuji  but saying she is a tsundere alone for that is as foolish as saying Ayase is a yandere because of that one comedic scene  |
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Deknijff said: @Extect @Star_Slayer Im sorry for quoting myself but its honestly the easiest thing to do Deknijff said: Taiga is not a tsundere yes she acts violent but thats not enough to make you a tsundere plus the one she was always attacking wasn't even the one she liked from the start. She mostly attacked only Ryuuji who'm she didn't even have feelings for at first people seem to forget that she was in love with Yuusaku who she always acted nice to and would calm down when he was close by she even liked him so much she would stalk him and take pictures of him now I'm sure some of you are going to bring up how she did this after falling in love with Ryuuji but saying she is a tsundere alone for that is as foolish as saying Ayase is a yandere because of that one comedic scene Your statement basically just said that the most famous tsundere of all time, Asuka Langley, is not even a tsundere because she acts nicely towards the person she likes. Going from tsun to dere is 100% still a tsundere character. And a good author can make a funny scene while still following a characters traits, so that scene should either show yandere or jokester qualities, but I haven't seen the show so Idk Also the level of difference between the art of those 3 scenes is crazy. |
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Deknijff said: But Taiga starts to like Ryuuji and shows subtle signs of it doesn't she? And she becomes violent toward Ryuuji even while liking him (even though she still likes Yuusaku). Or am I tripping?@Extect @Star_Slayer Im sorry for quoting myself but its honestly the easiest thing to do Deknijff said: Taiga is not a tsundere yes she acts violent but thats not enough to make you a tsundere plus the one she was always attacking wasn't even the one she liked from the start. She mostly attacked only Ryuuji who'm she didn't even have feelings for at first people seem to forget that she was in love with Yuusaku who she always acted nice to and would calm down when he was close by she even liked him so much she would stalk him and take pictures of him now I'm sure some of you are going to bring up how she did this after falling in love with Ryuuji but saying she is a tsundere alone for that is as foolish as saying Ayase is a yandere because of that one comedic scene |
| Tsunderes=defects Chuunibiyous=Master race |
Extect said: I mean she has to act nice almost at all times to not be a tsundere. When thinking what makes a true tsundere you have to think if the tsun and dere go together and not if she just acts rude to random strangers. Is she rude to the person to mask her love for said person or not?Your statement basically just said that the most famous tsundere of all time, Asuka Langley, is not even a tsundere because she acts nicely towards the person she likes. Going from tsun to dere is 100% still a tsundere character. And a good author can make a funny scene while still following a characters traits, so that scene should either show yandere or jokester qualities, but I haven't seen the show so Idk Also the level of difference between the art of those 3 scenes is crazy. this is why characters like Ririchiyo Shirakiin are not tsunderes but a tsunshun. She acts rude to everyone as a front but gets depressed afterwards since she doesn't want to act like that. Taiga is never rude towards Yuusaku her love interest. She openly admits to liking him and she even fights others for him I don't remember anything from EVA sadly but if Asuka is nice to Shinji at all times and doesn't act rude to him to mask her feelings then yeah Im going to have to question if she is a tsundere Star_Slayer said: She does develop feelings toward Ryuuji later yes. But after realising that she doesn't treat him badly to mask her feelings for him. More so just doesn't tell him for a whileBut Taiga starts to like Ryuuji and shows subtle signs of it doesn't she? And she becomes violent toward Ryuuji even while liking him (even though she still likes Yuusaku). Or am I tripping? |
DeknijffJun 7, 2017 9:12 PM
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| EDIT: A lot of people seem to be getting something wrong as well. Being tsundere don't require romantic feelings towards their target. You can be tsundere toward a friend as well. The key here is: to externally attempt to hide your [embarrassment] or [affection toward someone] by acting in ways that "seem" to oppose such feelings. If the character is one who does that multiple times, they are a tsundere. Now, to answer the threads question. A real good tsundere goes as it follows: 1.Stage of distate Scenario: The "yet to be confirmed' tsundere not only don't hold any sort of affection for their target yet, they also dislike him for whatever reason. Unlike the cookie-cutter tsundere, the good tsundere don't express they distaste through physical harm. Instead, they act sassy and cleverly mock their target in a passive manner, in a attemp to get under their target's skin. 2.Stage of affection Scenario: The tsundere have some sort of affection towards their target, such could be a friendly one or just straight up love. If the tsundere was previously not fond of their target: they'll still act sassy and cleverly mock their them, but with toned down frequency as they doesn't dislike the target anymore. The mocking now will mostly be used for when the target is, in their perspective, being stupid. If they never hated their target to begin with: Their already neutral behavior won't change. Now that they hold affection for their target, the tsundere will become embarrassed during various situations involving their target, and react accordingly. Note once again that most of their behaviors and reactions are not physically harmful to their target. EX1: If a tsundere in love with their target is too close to them, they'll blush and look away. They may also attept to distance themselves when possible. EX2: When doing a favor to their target, they may say something like "I-it's not like I'm doing it for you or anything" in a attempt of driving way any suspicion of their affection, all while blushing. EX3: When confronted about their affection due to a favor they made, they'll blush and say something like "O-Of course not, I just did this cuz it was necessary. Not for you or anything". Example of good tsundere: Makise Kurisu (Steins;Gate) - Affection type: love - Behavior: sassy Constantly mocks and teases Okabe Rintaro but quite lovable when confronted about her affection. Also a good and supportive waifu in general but that's beside the point. Nishikino Maki (Love Live) - Affection type: friendship - Behavior: mostly normal "Betsuni<3"...That's all there is too it XD |
HyperLJun 7, 2017 10:01 PM
| You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
| So basically, Madoka vs Asuka. I don't like either. |
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This looks to be interesting... I prefer the abused woman, because no matter how fucked up you are, they'll still keep coming back to you for more physical abuse |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
| As a side note, I'm the only one that voted for the modern tsundere. C'mon guys show em some love |
| Taiga isn't a tsundere. She isn't rude/violent to hide her feelings toward someone; she's just rude/violent in general (to everyone except the people she likes, actually). To answer the question, either can be developed well, but I think I tend to prefer the classic since I prefer slow-burn development to rapid mood swings. |
| choose your fighter, Classic asshole vs Modern asshole. |
| Taiga is a tsundere. The top percentage of tsundere. It's the journey, not the attitude, see? Let's use the infallible and distinguished site of TV Tropes: The term was originally used to describe characters who began with a harsh outgoing personality, but slowly revealed a soft and vulnerable interior over time. Over the years the character archetype has become flanderized, and is now generically associated with a character who flips between the two emotional states at the slightest provocation, and usually at a specific person rather than a general sociability problem. The former is usually referred as Classic Tsundere and the latter as Modern Tsundere. When your character started out as loud and violent as a rather unconscious decision to push people away then slowly unveils her vulnerable side over time as she comes to realized no one's obliged to give her happiness... well tsundere. “The shell of an oyster, only hides the pearl inside” -Samurai Jack, Samurai Jack EDIT: ALRIGHT, I'VE REACHED MY FUCKIT POINT. BRING IN ZE BOLDFACE |
EankiJun 8, 2017 2:59 AM
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| I don't have any preferences about Tsunderes as long as they are (i.e. I find them) likeable. |
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| Idk fam... Both of them belongs in the trash can! I like to judge characters by their totally personality instead of their archetype.. So if a Tsundere has good and enjoyable character and personality ( ie Misaka Mikoto), I'll like her. And If it's your typical abusive blonde/redhead bitches, I'll just throw them in the trash can.. |
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| Users in this thread are more cancerous than OP and thread itself. also saying that Taiga is not a tsundere .... get help boys... |
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Swagernator said: also saying that Taiga is not a tsundere .... get help boys... She's not violent to hide her feelings. She's just violent period. See? Big difference. Tsunderes are all about being dishonest with their feelings. If they're violent witthout being dishonest toward themselves then you can call them a jerk, a bully, obnoxious, or whatever else, but they're not a tsundere. You and all the others in this thread acting incredulous to being told that Taiga isn't a tsundere are embarrassing yourselves. It's a common mistake; there's no need to get touchy over it. Quoting you because I think there's more hope for you than the other two. |
TripleSRank said: You and all the others in this thread acting incredulous to being told that Taiga isn't a tsundere are embarrassing yourselves. It's a common mistake; there's no need to get touchy over it. Yeah you right, the whole anime community - west/east - is wrong and only that cult of yours is right. |
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| Hmm didn't really like tsundere tbh Both classic or modern It's like comparing normal shit and bloody shit, no matter how u see it it's still shit But if I had to choose then normal shit it is |
~Yume's Ass and Shihiro's Boobs are gifts from God for us foolish Mortals~  |
| I'd say classic ones have slightly higher potential for development in terms of story and characterization Modern ones are more fetishy and better in doujins though |
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| I didn't they there is a tsundere classification.. But some names under the Classic ones kinda off. I think I'll go check the meaning of the term one more time. |
"We're all human. We all make mistakes sometimes. Just don't make mistakes when lives are at stake." ~ Great-Grandmother Mikage, Gin no Saji |
| kudos for the more detailed than usual op.. i will use this in my thesis on tsunderology |
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Swagernator said: TripleSRank said: You and all the others in this thread acting incredulous to being told that Taiga isn't a tsundere are embarrassing yourselves. It's a common mistake; there's no need to get touchy over it. Yeah you right, the whole anime community - west/east - is wrong and only that cult of yours is right. The whole anime community? A "cult" of mine? Hardly. You'll find this specific case being misunderstood with others explaining what I pointed out across the whole fandom if you would just take a look instead of being too stubborn to admit when you've made a mistake. If you're going to resort to flinging turds and acting like I'm a villain then I think I'll leave it at that, though. |
| Look at all those japanese slang expert discussing the meaning or identity of tsundere , and then proceeding to tell you that Taiga is a tsundere. That s*** is getting old seriously. How many years since the toradora anime now? It's about time peoples get a clue and stop calling her that. She's on the opposite side of the personality spectrum. She's nice to anyone she appreciates a lot (including very good friends like minori) and aggressive towards anyone else, and she is NOT embarrassed by her own feelings at all. Quite the contrary, in fact. "OMG she's violent towards the mc, such a tsundere". "Bu-but she was violent before so tsun, lovey dovey afterwards so dere, so she's a tsundere!" -> typical answers of users with no clue about the definition of that japanese slang. "Bu-but i learned japanese by watching chinese cartoon, surely I cannot be wrong about obscure japanese slang!" Yeah, this is getting old. |
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TripleSRank said: Tsunderes are all about being dishonest with their feelings. If they're violent witthout being dishonest toward themselves then you can call them a jerk, a bully, obnoxious, or whatever else, but they're not a tsundere. Funny, because as I've already stated above: le_halfhand_easy said: When your character started out as loud and violent as a rather unconscious decision to push people away then slowly unveils her vulnerable side over time as she comes to realized no one's obliged to give her happiness... well tsundere. Buh... buh... I- I'm hopeless? |
You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
le_halfhand_easy said: TripleSRank said: Tsunderes are all about being dishonest with their feelings. If they're violent witthout being dishonest toward themselves then you can call them a jerk, a bully, obnoxious, or whatever else, but they're not a tsundere. Funny, because as I've already stated above: le_halfhand_easy said: When your character started out as loud and violent as a rather unconscious decision to push people away then slowly unveils her vulnerable side over time as she comes to realized no one's obliged to give her happiness... well tsundere. Buh... buh... I- I'm hopeless? I mean, I saw selective quoting from tvtropes of all places (you know, the place known for murdering and mutilating the dead corpse of the definition of "deconstruction", an actual literary term), so I was assuming so. Maybe you aren't? Taiga wasn't expecting anyone she was being violent to to give her happiness. She was nice to anyone she actually liked, namely her first crush (who she confessed to very early, the epitome of being honest about one's feelings), Minori, and later Ryuugi after she started liking him (around the Christmas episodes, if memory serves). The only reason people mistook Taiga as a tsundere to begin with is because of her voice actor, who has voiced other famous tsunderes and is often (but not always) typecast into the role. When people saw that with an obviously violent character they just went "tsundere!" without really thinking about it further. Edit: @Zefyris knows what he's talking about. |
TripleSRankJun 8, 2017 3:07 AM
Star_Slayer said: As a side note, I'm the only one that voted for the modern tsundere. C'mon guys show em some love I was going to vote for modern but I figured the 'both' option showed moe love for tsundere Yes. Unless your're carrying around an FFXIII character |
ExtectJun 8, 2017 5:28 AM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| They all suck except for Rin imo.... |
| What I got from this thread: - Cancer vs Cancer - Taiga isn't a tsundere I wonder how many doujinshi has been created featuring Sagiri now... :/ |
| Irrespective of the tsundere being classic or modern, if he/she is on the same shit level as Wolfram then they deserve to die in the depths of hell. Tsunderes ruin everything and the creators always tend to favor such pieces of shit even if it means destroying the plot and other character personalities T~T |
| Best tsundere I've seen remains Victorique de Blois. ImO the best tsundere type have 1) a complex and well thought out personality rather than just the personality trait tsundere itself 2) a background that makes the tsundere trait part of her personality logical. Victorique de Blois fits both criteria to a T. One of the most complex character with a background that would make almost anyone behaving tsundere. Plus she's absolutely adorable, and has some very cool moments in the novels. |
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| Wait what... How the fuck is Taiga NOT a Tsundere? She's violent and aloof towards the MC for the majority of the time until she finally falls for him and becomes "dere". ^That's literally what a Tsundere is. |
JustALEX said: Wait what... How the fuck is Taiga NOT a Tsundere? She's violent and aloof towards the MC for the majority of the time until she finally falls for him and becomes "dere". ^That's literally what a Tsundere is. Your problem is with the definition of tsundere itself. That's a common misunderstanding of that slang too. Tsundere is a personality trait, not a succession of event. Tsundere is all about a behaviour resulting of the character's embarrassment about expressing her own feelings. Being violent without being in love (romantically or not ) has absolutely nothing to do with being a tsundere. Tsundere are dishonest about their feeling, mostly out of embarrassent. Taiga was never like that from start to finish. |
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| Sorry, but I don't buy it. Tsundere is a personality AND a transition as well. Taiga behaved very "tsun" with the MC for like the entire series...until she realized that she liked him more than just a friend AND then became "dere". I also don't buy the fact that she wasn't already "in love" or whatever with Ryuuji before she ultimately realized it. That's another key factor with Tsundere they don't only act the way they do to try to fool the object of their affection, they also do it to lie to themselves. Throughout the entire series Ryuuji was extremely kind and helpful towards Taiga...Taiga despite acknowledging this kindness always pushed back in order to not allow Ryuuji to close to her... Nope....you have a much better chance at convincing me that SAO was a great anime before convincing me that Taiga isn't Tsundere. I mean, seriously? |
--ALEX--Jun 8, 2017 9:53 AM
| @Zefyris @TripleSRank please help me with this because I honestly have a small dislike for @JustALEX and if I start arguging with him on this I'm going to be very rude depending on how this goes But Alex please think this through. It's Tsun+Dere They have to be together for a character to be tsundere. Not just her being rude to someone she hardly knows and then when she starts to develop feelings she starts becoming nice to the guy Just look at how she acts towards Yuu who she is in love with at the time. She isn't tsun and she wasn't tsun in the flashbacks of when she developed feelings for the guy It's called Tsundere not Tsun Dere It's one word Just like Erina isn't a tsundere for being a snob towards Souma since she is in love with his dad  and just like Ririchiyo isn't a tsundere but a tsunshun for acting tsun towards everyone and then getting embarrassed for acting like that.  |
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| Okay @TripleSRank @Zefyris @Deknijff No matter where I look the distinction between classic tsundere and modern tsundere is always that the first one is a development process while the second one is a character trait. It's not just TvTropes. The 'development' definition is everywhere. VNDB This character is a classic tsundere. Tsundere is a Japanese character development process which describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing their warm side over time. This change of behavior is permanent, and that's where the classic tsundere type is different form the modern tsundere. & This character is a modern tsundere with two personalities, hostile and lovestruck. A variation of the tsundere personality type which has the tsundere character switch between hostile and lovestruck personalities often, which is in contrast to the classic tsundere type where the change is gradual and permanent. English wiki Tsundere (ツンデレ?, pronounced [tsɯndeɾe]) is a Japanese term for a character development process that describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing a warmer side over time. Japanese wiki (used google to translate but you can easily get the gist of it): 「初めはツンツンしている（敵対的）が、何かのきっかけでデレデレ（過度に好意的）状態に変化する」 ["At first we are tackling (hostile), but it triggered something and changed to a state of Deredele (excessively favorable)"] 現在ではインターネットスラングを起源とするとされ、そのため定義も多様で、確定していない。解釈は流動的かつ感覚的であり、用法の拡散・細分化も著しい。よって明確なツンデレ像があるわけではなく、用例も性別、人間・非人間（人外）の別に左右されず、関係や出来事に至るまで幅広い。ファンが好む「萌え要素」は猫耳・アホ毛のように視覚的な記号であることが多いが、ツンデレは状況によって女性キャラクターの態度が変化するという「関係性」に根ざしたものであるという点で大きな違いがある。 [It is now thought that it originated from Internet slang, and therefore its definition is also diverse, and it has not been determined. Interpretation is fluent and sensuous, usage usage is also diffusing and fragmenting remarkably. Therefore, there is no clear Tsundere statue, examples are wide regardless of gender, human / nonhuman (external), ranging from relationships to events. "Moe elements" preferred by fans are often visual symbols like cat ears and aho hair, but it is said that Tsundere is rooted in "relationship" that the attitude of female characters changes according to circumstances There is a big difference in points.] しかし、もともとのスラングとしてのツンデレは「もともと好意を持っているが照れ隠しとして冷たく接している女の子が、あるときを境にそれ以降は素直に甘えてくる」という設定をさすものであって、一般的に用いられている性格のギャップによる魅力を示す表現ではなかったと指摘される場合がある[3]。例えば、アニメ『らき☆すた』の第10話では、ツンデレの用法が巷で適切に使われていない（時間経過による心境の変化ではなく性格の二面性を表す様に誤用されている）と登場キャラクターがぼやくシーンが存在する[4]。 [However, Tsundere as the original slang is a setting referring to "the girl who is coldly in contact as a blindfold but originally has a favor, after a certain time it gently becomes amenable after that" It may be pointed out that it was not an expression showing the attractiveness due to the characteristic gap that is being used [3]. For example, in the 10th episode of the animation "Lucky Star", the usage of Tsundere is not properly used in the streets (it is misused as to express two aspects of personality rather than a change in the mental state with time) There is a scene with a blurry appearance character [4].] 当に）好意を持っていなかったが、時間経過により（何らかの理由で）対象の人物に惹かれていき、好きになる。しかしそれまで冷たくしていた手前、素直になれない自分と嫌われたくない自分を天秤にかけて葛藤しつつもその後だんだんと素直になっていく」という、所謂シチュエーション萌えであると主張する指摘する者も存在する（詳しくは後述の歴史を参照）。 ただし、「ツンデレ」なる用語が使われるようになる以前から、特に漫画やアニメにおいて本当は好意を持っているのに、それを素直に表現できないというキャラクター設定は定番であって、ツンデレという用語の出現によってそれが再認識された面もある[5]。 [We did not have a favor, but as time passes (for some reason) I am attracted to the target person and I like it. However, those pointed out that they insist that it is so-called situational sprouting that it gradually becomes obedient gradually while conflicting himself with a balance that he / she does not want to be disliked to be disliked from being honest before becoming cold until then It exists (see the history below for details). However, before the term "tsundere" became popular, the character setting that truly has a favor in manga and animation, in particular, it can not express it obediently, is a classic one, and the appearance of the word Tsundere There are also aspects that it was re-recognized by [5].] Idk, to me it sounds like there's an awful much of 'gradual change' 'over time' 'after a certain time' 'change of the mental state with time' and so on in every definition of tsundere I could find. I hope I'm not the only one getting that impression from the google translated scripts. The japanese article seems to emphasize that as the original definition but also points out that at this point the usage of the term has evolved and can now also be applied to the dual personality type and other stuff. There seems to be a lot of different opinions as to what matters, ranging from relationship status to certain 'moe elements'. But it does not sound like there is any clear-cut answer anyone should be 100% confident in aside from that it originally meant a development process. So yeah I'm wondering why you guys are so adamant about tsun turning into dere over time not being in any way related to the term tsundere? I can't find any basis for your conviction so please let me know why you re so confident that only that one definition of it as a personality trait has any merit? Like I don't care about Taiga and it's been too long since I watched Toradora for me to have a real opinion on her being tsundere or not anymore, but your arguments all seem to ignore what I've known for years as the classic tsundere (which OP btw also described wrongly as far as I can tell) without really backing up your claims that that definition is bogus. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: Pullman because it is one word and as such the two words that combine into one have to be together for the definition to fit. Yes a person can start off tsun but that doesn't make them a tsundere. Let us look at Kirino So yeah I'm wondering why you guys are so adamant about tsun turning into dere over time not being in any way related to the term tsundere? I can't find any basis for your conviction so please let me know why you re so confident that only that one definition of it as a personality trait has any merit?  she was nice to her older brother at a young age but then when she fell in love with him she started acting tsun towards him to mask her feelings for him and then the gradual change of her being nice to her brother happened as she was in love with him. Thats the part that is important, there has to be love from the start which starts off tsun to mask it and then act nicely towards their love interest later on |
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