| To get to the point, I hate it with a passion, at least poor examples of it. You see other characters --- some with the same strength and agility as the other character --- die in such a manner, but the main characters always survive (or at least until the writer finds it convenient to finally kill them off to move the story in a certain direction). Recent anime I seen like this is Seraph of the End, Bleach, and Tokyo Ghoul. It seems like the ppl who enjoy anime like this are either not bothered by it or unaware of plot armor. I'm curious to see who thinks plot armor is something excusable or if you think it's ridiculous and ruins a show like I personally feel. I'd like to hear your reasoning, too. |
Demi_VJan 27, 2016 8:08 PM
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
| I enjoyed Bleach despite its evident plot armor (let's be honest, Hollow Ichigo was awesome), so it's not a big deal to me. At the end, the thing basically resumes in: "I like it? Then is good", "I don't like it? Then it's plot armor" |
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| I've got suspension of disbelief to patch that up thank you very much . As long as I'm enjoying the anime who cares ? |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| If I like the anime, I don't really give a damn about plot armor. |
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| Pretty sure that everyone is aware of plot armour but it comes with the story though. If an anime is about one character primarily, of course they need plot armour if you're gonna have them be in the biggest fight. It's either that or really contrived shit like the enemy deciding to not finish them off. Kinda like the first Berserker fight in Fate/Stay Night. The wee girl wins the fight but is like "Huh, well, I won't finish you off, I'll just go away for awhile. Next time I'll definitely kill you though!" It's just something you need to accept, very few anime about lots of combat don't have it. |
| yes, sometimes, it make the character feel flat and you don't feel any subtance even MC in danger. but if there is no plot armor, sometimes you even stop caring about character either. *cough cough "akame ga kill" cough cough. so in the end, it depnd on execution (masterrace answer). |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| it's both necessary and sufficient |
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| What I really don't like is when the character dies and then comes back to life like in |
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| It's hard for one single thing to ruin an entire show. It just has bigger effects depending on the type of anime like in a survival death story I can see it ruining the whole show for someone since it's so relevant. Every show with a decent amount of action and death situation have a plot armor by default. It just needs to make it more realistic and don't wave away illogical survival of main characters. |
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| I don't hate it when there is at least an explanation, like in Owari no Seraph, Bleach... What bothers me, although I won't usually give a show a lower rating for it, is events like in God Eater, where the MC got his whole guts pierced through and even his spine was clearly pierced through, yet he was able to just stand up like it was nothing and was even able to save that female character. I mean, cmon, I don't mind unrealistic damage taking, but when your spine is pierced, you won't be able to stand, even if you were to have fast healing abilities, it'd at least take you a few days to recover from such a thing.. Oh, and there was this well known event that ruined a show called Dragon Ball, where the writer just changed his mind about the story halfway through.. His first idea was to make Gohan the strongest fighter and Goku should have stayed dead, Gohan just inherited his father's will and became the most powerfull warrior of the universe, but noooooooo, the writer just HAD to make up his mind and decide to make Gohan useless by not training anymore.. I get that Gohan was never a fighter, which was the writer's excuse for doing so, but he seemed to forget that Gohan had a way better feature than not being a fighter: wanting to protect what is dear to him. |
HiroyuukiJan 20, 2016 12:12 PM
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zombie_pegasus said: What I really don't like is when the character dies and then comes back to life like in It's not even just main characters they do it to, but just major characters. Like... |
| Here it comes, that great phrase that everyone loves - it depends. I don't mind plot armour for the most part, so long as it doesn't become excessively over the top and ridiculous. If you look at Cross Ange, for example - But other than for blatantly obvious occasions, I don't mind it for the most part. I mean, plot armour is present in the vast majority of anime where fighting and death can occur. Most MCs will be given some form of plot armour to some degree or other. I will simply appreciate those anime which give valid reasons or events for characters surviving, rather than relying on the power of friendship or some other asspull. |
 It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| Plot armor is the last refuge of the critically incompetent. It is what people say to justify their disbelief in something without having anything of additional value to add. It is easy to do. If someone does not die and you wish to have seen him or her beheaded at the guillotine, then you invoke plot armor. If someone accomplishes a miraculous feat that you dislike because you find that character reprehensible, pathetic, annoying, or perhaps you see yourself in him and therefore find your own self-image to be so terrifyingly pitiful, then you invoke plot armor. That person should have died, and it is the plot's fault that he didn't! That person can't do this. Why? Oh no, it is not at all because I can't find any sort of rationale explanation, it's because of plot armor. |
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| I'm not sure about the definition of plot armor , but if you mean plot holes or asspulls then yeah. It can certainly ruin the show for some people. As for me , I'm totally okey with those as long as the show is fun. |
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| Of course not almost all actions shows have some degree of plot armour |
tsudecimo said: Every show with a decent amount of action and death situation have a plot armor by default. It just needs to make it more realistic and don't wave away illogical survival of main characters. Hiroyuuki said: I don't hate it when there is at least an explanation, like in Owari no Seraph, Bleach... What bothers me, although I won't usually give a show a lower rating for it, is events like in God Eater, where the MC got his whole guts pierced through and even his spine was clearly pierced through, yet he was able to just stand up like it was nothing and was even able to save that female character. I mean, cmon, I don't mind unrealistic damage taking, but when your spine is pierced, you won't be able to stand, even if you were to have fast healing abilities, it'd at least take you a few days to recover from such a thing.. I agree with both of you. As long as there's an explanation or it's realistic, it's fine with me. Same thing with Guren in Seraph of the End... |
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
Z-Dante said: I'm not sure about the definition of plot armor , but if you mean plot holes or asspulls then yeah. It can certainly ruin the show for some people. As for me , I'm totally okey with those as long as the show is fun. Stuff like : MC is about to die with no other means of escape .At the exact right moment something (maybe luck or his allies) saves him . |
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| Probably depends on how serious the series takes itself. If it tries to be something serious, but then has characters survive all the time thanks to ridiculous plot armour, yes it would ruin it. |
Moneta said: Plot armor is the last refuge of the critically incompetent. It is what people say to justify their disbelief in something without having anything of additional value to add. It is easy to do. If someone does not die and you wish to have seen him or her beheaded at the guillotine, then you invoke plot armor. If someone accomplishes a miraculous feat that you dislike because you find that character reprehensible, pathetic, annoying, or perhaps you see yourself in him and therefore find your own self-image to be so terrifyingly pitiful, then you invoke plot armor. That person should have died, and it is the plot's fault that he didn't! That person can't do this. Why? Oh no, it is not at all because I can't find any sort of rationale explanation, it's because of plot armor. That's an incredibly black and white stance to take. You're basically implying plot armour doesn't exist at all, which is rather inane. |
It's an entirely different kind of flying, altogether! It's an entirely different kind of flying. |
| well well someone is watching the anime man videos lately... now my answer = yes if only they do it horribly example : SAO & Fairy tail |
EvilDragon16 said: Z-Dante said: I'm not sure about the definition of plot armor , but if you mean plot holes or asspulls then yeah. It can certainly ruin the show for some people. As for me , I'm totally okey with those as long as the show is fun. Stuff like : MC is about to die with no other means of escape .At the exact right moment something (maybe luck or his allies) saves him . That's deus ex machina, isn't it? Plot armor is when the character(s) receive an intense amount of damage but still survives. |
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
| It enhances a show if used for comedic effect. |
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ItsMaz said: Where did I imply plot armour didn't exist? If I say that it is a terrible criticism of the highest order, then I am implying that it must exist, but the critique of it is inane and laughable to do.That's an incredibly black and white stance to take. You're basically implying plot armour doesn't exist at all, which is rather inane. Name one meaningful critic that has ever used plot armor in his criticism. I have never seen a good critic utilize plot armour in a way that cannot be inconsistently applied to other shows that he or she enjoys. What does plot armour serve in telling us something about an anime in question that you cannot replace with much more sophisticated analysis and critiques? What value does this critique bring outside of suggesting that a nebulous, suddenly personified construct known as the "plot," is now shielding and protecting a particular character of story from harm? |
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Demi_V said: EvilDragon16 said: Stuff like : MC is about to die with no other means of escape .At the exact right moment something (maybe luck or his allies) saves him . That's deus ex machina, isn't it? Plot armor is when the character(s) receive an intense amount of damage but still survives. Deus Ex Machina is when something completely unhinted at previously is brought up as a measure to help a situation . Plot armour is.. TV Tropes said: Sometimes referred to as "Script Immunity" or a "Character Shield", Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation. |
SodiumChlorideJan 21, 2016 1:38 PM
| Wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo |
| Ruin? No, not at all. Just lessens enjoyment. |
| It doesn't necessarily ruin a show unless its heavily reliant on in shows like: fairy tail and not having a plot armor at all that could result in the most asinine moments and death scenes which are there for shock value nothing more and nothing less i:e Akame Ga Kill |
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| Not necessarily though I can't say I can think of a scenario where I've considered it a good thing |
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| Plot armor pisses me off extremely. Just like stupid nonsensical plot devices. |
Seiya0890 said: But its still disgusting from my point of view, and from the word's point of view, therefore its disgusting. Wise words. |
| It can be annoying, but if it's not abused it can also be cool. I enjoyed plenty of scenes in anime where the mc is tanking a lot of damage and would lose if not for plot armor and then makes his comeback. |
| 5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
| I don't care about plot armor. I don't even character about character skills since they're arbitrary. I only care about personality and meaning. It's stupid to kill important characters for the sake of 'realism'. People survive crazy incidents all the time. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Demi_V said: To get to the point, I hate it with a passion. You see other characters --- some with the same strength and agility as the other character --- die in such a manner, but the main characters always survive (or at least until the writer finds it convenient to finally kill them off to move the story in a certain direction). Recent anime I seen like this is Seraph of the End, Bleach, and Tokyo Ghoul. It seems like the ppl who enjoy anime like this are either not bothered by it or unaware of plot armor. I'm curious to see who thinks plot armor is something excusable or if you think it's ridiculous and ruins a show like I personally feel. I'd like to hear your reasoning, too. But you love Code Geass and Hunter X Hunter. Those 2 anime have the strongest cases of plot armor for characters I've ever seen. |
TitanAnteus said: Demi_V said: To get to the point, I hate it with a passion. You see other characters --- some with the same strength and agility as the other character --- die in such a manner, but the main characters always survive (or at least until the writer finds it convenient to finally kill them off to move the story in a certain direction). Recent anime I seen like this is Seraph of the End, Bleach, and Tokyo Ghoul. It seems like the ppl who enjoy anime like this are either not bothered by it or unaware of plot armor. I'm curious to see who thinks plot armor is something excusable or if you think it's ridiculous and ruins a show like I personally feel. I'd like to hear your reasoning, too. But you love Code Geass and Hunter X Hunter. Those 2 anime have the strongest cases of plot armor for characters I've ever seen. Plot armor is in neither one of those. Prove me wrong and give examples. |
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
| Sorry guys, just a news flash. EVERY SHOW HAS PLOT ARMOR. Of course the MC isn't going to die in episode 3 of a 25 episode series, you know that, everyone does. It's how you implement the "plot armor" that could ruin the anime. If the protagonist survives a devastating attack with some bullshit, unexplainable, asspull, power up then of course the "plot armor" would ruin the immersion of the anime. But if it is believable how the main character survived the situation then no, it doesn't ruin the show. |
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Demi_V said: TitanAnteus said: But you love Code Geass and Hunter X Hunter. Those 2 anime have the strongest cases of plot armor for characters I've ever seen. Plot armor is in neither one of those. Prove me wrong and give examples. Holy shit. Suzaku's geass thing in R2 is plot-armor no Jutsu. Lelouch gets saved by C2 a bunch of times by absolute luck of her being in the right place at the right time. The Geass time stop teleportation to save Lelouch that Rolo used to kill himself was plot-armor. Lelouch, Suzaku, and Kallen surviving the radiant wave blast by Schneizel while he's on his ship is plot armor. Hunter X Hunter. Gon could've died so many times, but the plot shaped Hisoka in such a way that he wouldn't kill him. As soon as Gon did a life threatening move that he had to sacrifice his life for, a plot element called Killua's sister was introduced. Plot-Armor. People stronger than Gon died at that Hunter exam. He got lucky with his team comp and places he went for the most part. Plot Armor. |
| The issue isn't whether or not there's plot armor-- there's ALWAYS plot armor that's how it WORKS-- but suspension of disbelief. Which, yes, can be a problem for some shows, but plot armor isn't the right complaint to be making. |
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JkayW said: EVERY SHOW HAS PLOT ARMOR. Every show does not have a character put in a situation where they're close to death's door. Maybe it's limited to the Shounen or action genre. |
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
TitanAnteus said: Demi_V said: Plot armor is in neither one of those. Prove me wrong and give examples. Holy shit. Suzaku's geass thing in R2 is plot-armor no Jutsu. Lelouch gets saved by C2 a bunch of times by absolute luck of her being in the right place at the right time. The Geass time stop teleportation to save Lelouch that Rolo used to kill himself was plot-armor. Lelouch, Suzaku, and Kallen surviving the radiant wave blast by Schneizel while he's on his ship is plot armor. Hunter X Hunter. Gon could've died so many times, but the plot shaped Hisoka in such a way that he wouldn't kill him. As soon as Gon did a life threatening move that he had to sacrifice his life for, a plot element called Killua's sister was introduced. Plot-Armor. People stronger than Gon died at that Hunter exam. He got lucky with his team comp and places he went for the most part. Plot Armor. My issue of plot armor is when e.g. a character gets stabbed through the body multiple times and still survives with no explanation. If foreshadowing is involved to prevent a person's death, I don't see the problem. |
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Demi_V said: JkayW said: EVERY SHOW HAS PLOT ARMOR. Every show does not have a character put in a situation where they're close to death's door. Maybe it's limited to the Shounen or action genre. All shows have plot armor to keep the story going, until maybe the ending. This isn't limited to action/shounen's. Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical explanation. |
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Demi_V said: excuse me? JkayW said: Every show does not have a character put in a situation where they're close to death's door. Maybe it's limited to the Shounen or action genre.EVERY SHOW HAS PLOT ARMOR.  #hardcoreshow #trainaction |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
JkayW said: Demi_V said: Every show does not have a character put in a situation where they're close to death's door. Maybe it's limited to the Shounen or action genre. All shows have plot armor to keep the story going, until maybe the ending. This isn't limited to action/shounen's. Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical explanation. So you're saying a completely healthy character who experiences no accidents or close calls throughout an anime is plot armor? |
| Demi Valentine Website: Nika 'n Asia Follow me on social media! Facebook | Instagram | Twitter |
Demi_V said: JkayW said: All shows have plot armor to keep the story going, until maybe the ending. This isn't limited to action/shounen's. Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical explanation. So you're saying a completely healthy character who experiences no accidents or close calls throughout an anime is plot armor? What would you believe me to be typing? |
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JkayW said: Demi_V said: So you're saying a completely healthy character who experiences no accidents or close calls throughout an anime is plot armor? What would you believe me to be typing? Do you mind answering the question seriously and not with another question? |
Demi_VJan 20, 2016 5:27 PM
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Demi_V said: JkayW said: What would you believe me to be typing? Do you mind answering the question seriously and not with another question? Do you think I would mind if I asked another answer in the form of a question? Yes |
JkayWJan 20, 2016 5:44 PM
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| It doesn't really bother me. But I think it depends on the anime, because sometimes plot armor is there for a reason. |
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| Plot armour isn't when a stupid or illogical explanation is given. Plot armour is when no explanation is given and a character survives a seemingly fatal experience solely because he/she needs to, for the plot to progress. A lot of the examples cited here aren't of plot armour, just lazy writing. Just as an example, CG and Hunter X Hunter do give explanations, albeit very weak ones. If you want a show with actual plot armour, look at One Piece. One thing I remember right now is from the Sky Island arc. As a matter of fact, I honestly can't remember any other anime right now, which uses it as blatantly as One Piece. What do I think of plot armor? I do hate it and tend to lower a show's score if it's employed, but I don't find it as repulsive in shows that aren't very serious to begin with. I feel it's a sign of lazy or overconfident writing. Then again, all of the more serious anime I remember having watched have given explanations, even if they were extremely stupid ones, but that's another issue entirely. |
Shima_XIXJan 20, 2016 5:27 PM
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Demi_V said: JkayW said: All shows have plot armor to keep the story going, until maybe the ending. This isn't limited to action/shounen's. Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical explanation. So you're saying a completely healthy character who experiences no accidents or close calls throughout an anime is plot armor? They experience no accidents or close class? That's called PLOT ARMOR. They are being kept in a certain condition for the sake of the plot. All shows have "plot armor", whether they are K-ON or Berserk. Rephrase your question to "Do unbelievably durable/unkillable characters ruin a show?" or something like that. |
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| it ruins attack on titan because i know Eren is not going to die |
| I take it that some people have not seen Aldnoah.Zero and Aldnoah.Zero Season 2 yet... |
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JkayW said: Demi_V said: Do you mind answering the question seriously and not with another question? Do you think I would mind if I asked another answer in the form of a question? No. The answer is no. Kezone said: They experience no accidents or close class? That's called PLOT ARMOR. They are being kept in a certain condition for the sake of the plot. All shows have "plot armor", whether they are K-ON or Berserk. Rephrase your question to "Do unbelievably durable/unkillable characters ruin a show?" or something like that. It appears we're not agreeable on the definition of plot armor. Here's my definition of "plot armor." TV said: Plot Armor is when a main character's life and health are safeguarded by the fact that he's the one person who can't be removed from the story. Therefore, whenever Bob is in a situation where he could be killed (or at the least very seriously injured), he comes out unharmed with no logical, In-Universe explanation. Urban said: Character shields (also known as plot armor or plot shield) are plot devices in films and television shows that prevent important characters from dying or being seriously injured at dramatically inconvenient moments. It often denotes a situation in which it strains credibility to believe that the character would survive. Therefore, I say not ALL anime fit this definition. I don't recall any instances like those listed above happening in Haikyuu (and a couple of others I'll mention if you want). I'm curious to know what definitions you're using. Please provide sources. |
Demi_VJan 22, 2016 8:02 AM
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