| In film studies we learnt about this test, I wondered how many anime series/films could also pass this test. It is considered that about only half of all western films meet these criteria, I wondered if anime would be the same. To describe what it is, it is the measurement of female representation in fiction. The test has three simple rules to decide whether or not a film is equal in its gender portrayal. These rules are: 1. The movie has to have at least two women in it 2. These women have to talk to each other 3. But they must talk about something other than a man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test If you want a better explanation read about it here ^^ So, can you name any anime series that don't pass, or do pass? How much does it matter to you if a series is able to pass this test? Do you think this test is fair? Does this test work with anime or not? |
SeijatachiiiiSep 16, 2020 11:56 AM
| >pass turn a gundam nichijou girls und panzer >doesn't pass kaiji jojo gundam thunderbolt >does it matter no EDIT: >is the test any good terminator 2 and ghost in the shell don't pass, the test is garbage |
Theo1899Sep 16, 2020 6:59 AM
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| There has to be countless shows out there... It's like the test is made to assume that every show has useless women and they hope that women will finally be able to pay attention to something other than a man? Idk I think they're paying too much attention to it. Hard to explain what I mean.. Anime has such a vast majority of shows so there are certainly some that have women who don't always talk about a man..? Do you mean like their entire screentime cannot mention another guy a single time? |
| avatar taken from twitter: @mery__S2_ |
| There's hundreds of CGDCT and hundreds of female-dominated action and comedy anime out there including all the magical girl and girls with guns stuff. This test is just incredibly stupid. |
| Does it ever matter? Just keep sjw bs away from my Japanese cartoons. Also, there are lots of anime with 2 or less men in it who don't speak to each other. Is there a similar test for men? No? Then this dumb test has no value. |
Nemo_NiemandSep 16, 2020 7:06 AM
 |
| Most anime with female heavy casts pass this test. Most anime with a mostly male cast fails it. This says nothing about entertainment value. Idc about these kinds of tests, as long as something is entertaining and I can have a good time with it then all is good. So what did we learn today, class? American systems don't work with anime. Then again that's nothing new. |
 |
| Since tons of CGDCT will pass it, said test is not a not good measurement of fair representation...girls being represented in those like some sort of pets who frolic around for entertainment. |
alshuSep 16, 2020 7:15 AM
deg said: by demographics alone here on MAL seems it failed Shoujo - 681 anime entries Shounen - 1965 anime entries source https://myanimelist.net/anime.php but a lot of Shonen like Fairy Tail does make it pass the test though Because fanservice and waifus are typical tropes for shounen. Kids should remain horny if shounen show wants to keep its popularity. |
|
alshu said: Since tons of CGDCT will pass it, said test is not a not good measure of fair representation...girls being represented in those like some sort of pets who frolic around for entertainment. RoyaleMiko said: There's hundreds of CGDCT and hundreds of female-dominated action and comedy anime out there including all the magical girl and girls with guns stuff. This test is just incredibly stupid. Thats something I thought, a show like Is The Order a Rabbit? would pass this incredibly easily. However that anime is clearly for a male audience and I would hesitate to say is anywhere close to being progressive in its depiction of young women. The CGDCT genre only really exists in anime (i've never really seen it done in the west), so is it fair to say this test doesnt work on that genre, or just anime in general? |
SeijatachiiiiSep 16, 2020 7:20 AM
| bechdel test is not very meaningful in the anime industry... anime does diversity right :D unlike the evil patriarchal hollywood movies where this test comes from |
 |
Seijatachiiii said: Is The Order a Rabbit?[/url] would pass this incredibly easily. However that anime is clearly for a male audience On the other hand there are CGDCT titles like Azumanga Daioh and Non Non Biyori which are targeted to bigger demographic group, not being sexual exploitive and representing girls way more naturally and fair. I mean people tend to put all CGDCT in one basket but they are could be very different. Bechdel Test not being able to sort out those demonstrates its weakness. Thus you should yet pass this through the "Does those characters sound human to you?" test. Seijatachiiii said: so is it fair to say this test doesnt work on this genre, or just anime in general? In general. Can give you another example - reverse harems. They are entertainment for women and yet they will fail this test. Like watching the show, presuming you are not somehow biased and aware of its context should give you enough idea if women are represented fairly in it without applying some crude filters. And some title being a sausage fest should be obvious to anyone. I guess Bechdel Test is just a way to eliminate at least some of the bias but as demonstrated you can have sexist titles which pass it. |
alshuSep 16, 2020 8:00 AM
alshu said: Seijatachiiii said: Is The Order a Rabbit?[/url] would pass this incredibly easily. However that anime is clearly for a male audience On the other hand there are CGDCT titles like Azumanga Daioh and Non Non Biyori which are targeted to bigger demographic group, not being sexual exploitive and representing girls way more naturally and fair. I mean people tend to put all CGDCT in one basket but they are could be very different. Bechdel Test not being able to sort out those demonstrates its weakness. Thus you should yet pass this through the "Does those characters sound human to you?" test. Seijatachiiii said: so is it fair to say this test doesnt work on this genre, or just anime in general? In general. Can give you another example - reverse harems. They are entertainment for women and yet they will fail this test. Like watching the show, presuming you are not somehow biased and aware of its context should give you enough idea if women are represented fairly in it without applying some crude filters. And some title being a sausage fest should be obvious to anyone. I guess Bechdel Test is just a way to eliminate at least some of the bias but as demonstrated you can have sexist titles which pass it. Just curious, is GochiUsa sexually exploitative? Because it seems just cutesy from the surface to me, I haven't watched it though. |
jal90 said: alshu said: On the other hand there are CGDCT titles like Azumanga Daioh and Non Non Biyori which are targeted to bigger demographic group, not being sexual exploitive and representing girls way more naturally and fair. I mean people tend to put all CGDCT in one basket but they are could be very different. Bechdel Test not being able to sort out those demonstrates its weakness. Thus you should yet pass this through the "Does those characters sound human to you?" test. In general. Can give you another example - reverse harems. They are entertainment for women and yet they will fail this test. Like watching the show, presuming you are not somehow biased and aware of its context should give you enough idea if women are represented fairly in it without applying some crude filters. And some title being a sausage fest should be obvious to anyone. I guess Bechdel Test is just a way to eliminate at least some of the bias but as demonstrated you can have sexist titles which pass it. Just curious, is GochiUsa sexually exploitative? Because it seems just cutesy from the surface to me, I haven't watched it though. I'm pretty sure it establishes itself with a panty shot in the first episode, if memory serves right? Very light fanservice that's pretty sparsed throught, but it's present. It's also extremely boring and came across as solely reliant on its aesthetic instead of having any charming characters or writing, but blah blah blah personal opinion. |
 |
| If anything, CGDCT should pass the Reverse Bechdel Test: 1. Is there more than one man? 2. Do they talk to each other? 3. Do they talk about something other than a woman? I don't think K-On! would pass. GuP passes barely, because of things like the two spectators talking about their shop being destroyed. GochiUsa doesn't pass, right? Kiniro Mosaic - fail? Azumanga Daioh - fail? HaNaYaMaTa - fail? And so on. |
 |
| Madoka Magica. All-female led main cast. They all talk with each other. They do talk about stuff other than men (besides that disabled boy). |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Tirinchas said: If anything, CGDCT should pass the Reverse Bechdel Test: 1. Is there more than one man? 2. Do they talk to each other? 3. Do they talk about something other than a woman? I don't think K-On! would pass. GuP passes barely, because of things like the two spectators talking about their shop being destroyed. GochiUsa doesn't pass, right? Kiniro Mosaic - fail? Azumanga Daioh - fail? HaNaYaMaTa - fail? And so on. Azumanga Daioh passes, but barely if I remember right. It had a short scene of a male teacher scolding Kimura for being late or something similar. Also a male student asking Kimura about their sports uniforms. |
| In the case of anime I don't think this test works. There are plenty of shoujo with a largely female cast that is heavily induced with the most insipid of romance story lines and the most irritating of female characters and yet have enough non romance conversation to pass. So even in passing the bechdel test it doesn't make the anime a good representation of female characters. |
 |
jal90 said: It had a short scene of a male teacher scolding Kimura for being late or something similar Also the fact that something this innocuous as this is being pressed as a problem in passing a gender representation benchmark makes me want to kill myself. What the fuck? |
|
| Time to dig in my anime list to see which anime pass the test : - Asobi Asobase - Yuru Camp - Non Non Biyori - Kingdom - Black Lagoon - Deca-Dence - probably Naruto, Bleach, One Piece and Fairy Tail - Gintama - 3-gatsu no Lion - Aggretsuko Already named ~10 of them and I barely scratched my list There are a lot of them honestly |
| How many anime can pass the Bechdel Test? A frackton. Because the Bechdel Test was made to get a sense of whether western movies actually had female characters that stood alone as characters rather than as accessories to male characters, with the point that it was a frequent trope that many movies only include female characters as background/side characters or romantic interests, while the male characters get all the action/focus. Which actually was the norm a while back. This doesn't make sense as a test when you're talking about (1) TV shows, where characters get far more extensive screentime, during which they can do more stuff (though this just makes the test a lot easier to pass), and (2) a medium that is extensively already known for female characters doing a huge variety of things, to the point where I've occasionally heard the argument that anime girls *not* being romantically involved but just hanging out in a girl group doing things devoid of contact with males (and with varying amounts of yuri subtext) *isn't* that plausible. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| I feel like most cgdct pass the test but even regular shows like Oregairu can pass the test. |
Manaban said: jal90 said: It had a short scene of a male teacher scolding Kimura for being late or something similar Also the fact that something this innocuous as this is being pressed as a problem in passing a gender representation benchmark makes me want to kill myself. What the fuck? The Bechdel or Reverse Bechdel test is a pretty random bullshit that should only be taken seriously, if anything, in a very general way, because when speaking about the confined narrative of a movie or series it's beyond useless. But then again, I think there are much better ways to measure gender representation than this. This one is just more famous. |
| --------- woke nonsense ---------- |
| Bleach is best consumed with your ears open and your eyes closed. |
Never watched it. I count on Seijatachiiii's opinion here. jal90 said: Because it seems just cutesy from the surface to me And by your standards Free is not fujobait at all... |
| It doesn't sounds like something that matters, that thing it's for two hour movies not for a 13+ episodes series. Any yuri series or long running show would pass it without problems. |
 |
alshu said: Never watched it. I count on Seijatachiiii's opinion here. jal90 said: Because it seems just cutesy from the surface to me And by your standards Free is not fujobait at all... Never said Free isn't fujobait, I said Free has a lot more in its narrative than being fujobait. Save that smugness for when you actually read what people write. |
| I feel like anime kind of breaks the Bechdel test. It doesn't really mean anything on its own, but it's usually used in media analysis to determine how... feminist(?) a movie is, I guess, but anime has this thing called the harem genre, where the higher ratio of female characters to male characters means that, just cumulatively speaking, there's gonna be a scene where to female characters talk about something other than the main guy. Does this mean that said harem show is particularly un-sexist? Probably not, but it passes the test. That's my main problem with the test in a nutshell. It's good for pointing out this one specific thing, but kind of useless beyond that, like analysing the context of the scenes it's used to find. A piece of media can pass the test and still be sexist as fuck, be it Japanese or American. |
ChilliePeppersSep 16, 2020 11:29 AM
I wouldn't say sexually exploitative, but rather that it treats its main characters as, like previously said, "pets who frolic around for entertainment". Their main purpose is to be cute and appealing to men who are sexually attracted to them, though as I recall in the anime itself, there isn't much ecchi actually shown. It's hard to explain, I probably shouldn't of used GochiUsa as an example, but it's the first thing I thought of, because to me that show is the paramount of CGDCT. |
rogedavi said: --------- woke nonsense ---------- Amatniki said: What a stupid test. An anime doesnt have to have women to be good. In fact the only time an anime that has women is good is when u get to see their tits. Nobody likes female characters that dont get fanserviced. fuckoff with this bullshit You mention gender once and these people loose their minds. Their knee jerk reaction is to tell you to "fuck off with your sjw feminist bullshit". I just want an open discussion on whether or not this test would be practical with anime as much as it is with some western movies. Who knew any discussion of gender equality was so offensive lmao |
Seijatachiiii said: I wouldn't say sexually exploitative, but rather that it treats its main characters as, like previously said, "pets who frolic around for entertainment". Their main purpose is to be cute and appealing to men who are sexually attracted to them, though as I recall in the anime itself, there isn't much ecchi actually shown. It's hard to explain, I probably shouldn't of used GochiUsa as an example, but it's the first thing I thought of, because to me that show is the paramount of CGDCT. Ah, I understand you. You mean there's an intent to please a male audience. I personally don't think it's about sexual attraction though, like moe kind of exists in a different realm in terms of attractiveness or appeal. |
jal90 said: I said Free has a lot more in its narrative than being fujobait. You admitted it only after a bit of struggle, also called it very minor. jal90 said: Save that smugness The smugness was about your "I got you!" moment about GochiUsa which failed. Mentioned Free because your standards about "Is it sexualized?" are a bit laxed to me. To other people too, since they got you about the panty shots. jal90 said: for when you actually read what people write Paid enough attention to that - you didn't disagree with my main point here, just came for the "I got you!". Painted him as jerk tho, also very realistically nobody helped the poor harassed girl. Panty shots are not that? |
Did GochiUsa have any panty shots? I think something like that is pretty sexually exploitative, yeah, but I don't remember that happening in GochiUsa. I watched it a while ago, so I might be wrong, it might even be riddled with ecchi.. I just dont remember tbh |
SeijatachiiiiSep 16, 2020 4:31 PM
_Dusty_ said: People may associate it with "feminism" or "sexism" or whatever and try to draw some grand conclusions from it, but fundamentally all it is is a test to that seeks to answer the following questions:I feel like anime kind of breaks the Bechdel test. It doesn't really mean anything on its own, but it's usually used in media analysis to determine how... feminist(?) a movie is, I guess, but anime has this thing called the harem genre, where the higher ratio of female characters to male characters means that, just cumulatively speaking, there's gonna be a scene where to female characters talk about something other than the main guy. Does this mean that said harem show is particularly un-sexist? Probably not, but it passes the test. That's my main problem with the test in a nutshell. It's good for pointing out this one specific thing, but kind of useless beyond that, like analysing the context of the scenes it's used to find. A piece of media can pass the test and still be sexist as fuck, be it Japanese or American. 1. Are there important female characters in the story? 2. Are they involved in something other than romance with guys? Like you said, anime kinda breaks the Bechdel test, because the Bechdel test is meant for movies, and was meant for back in the day when there really were far fewer things being made that featured female characters doing cool things, in contrast to today where anything ranging from Gabriel DropOut to Symphogear to Yona of the Dawn can pass this with flying colors. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
alshu said: jal90 said: I said Free has a lot more in its narrative than being fujobait. You admitted it only after a bit of struggle, also called it very minor. Again, read what people write. If my entire position is that Free is not mainly about fujoshibait, it means exactly that it is not mainly about fujoshibait, not that it doesn't have at all. alshu said: jal90 said: Save that smugness The smugness was about your "I got you!" moment about GochiUsa which failed. Mentioned Free because your standards about "Is it sexualized?" are a bit laxed to me. To other people too, since they got you about the panty shots. I'm not like you, alshu, I don't try to own people when I talk about a show I haven't watched and its content. If GochiUsa has any kind of heavy sexual focus (like ecchi levels) it will turn into something I'm not interested on. I like moe, I don't like ecchi. That's why I ask. And like, don't hold grudges over random exchanges in here, it's weird. alshu said: jal90 said: for when you actually read what people write Paid enough attention to that - you didn't disagree with my main point here, just came for the "I got you!". Sincerity appreciated but this was a bit weird and uncalled for. |
Manaban said that, I have no idea. Truth to be told I watched Azimanga many years ago, so if it has panty shots (I don't remember any) thus it's invalid as example. |
alshuSep 16, 2020 12:25 PM
Yes, it's not mainly...but a huge chunk of it, about 30% is dedicated to that. This is much even for sport anime. jal90 said: I'm not like you, alshu A good thing actually. jal90 said: I don't try to own people Saying that after an actual attempt to own me... jal90 said: when I talk about a show I haven't watched and its content. Yeah, the wrapping (30% is a bit thick if you ask me) of Free is only a minor detail to you. jal90 said: And like, don't hold grudges over random exchanges in here, it's weird. But it is you who attacked first also I suspect your grudge starting around me disagreeing Yuru Camp△ being worthy of AOTY (for 2018). Oh, but it was called and your ironic "sincerity appreciated" is yet another prove of that. |
| K-on and its copycats. Basically any anime with female cast that is not romance. |
 |
| Is this thread a piss take. Im assuming its been made by white feminist propagandist who has no concept of eastern culture or the stories it portrays. First of all the Bechdel test is a western ideological concept designed to critique western media and there lack of female characters. It has no space in anime. Or even in Eastern cinema which has had many strong female leads. For the op who posted this nonsense, if your so upset about female oppression in the western world, wether it be cinema or in real life, go post your 'Test' in church forums and shit like that. Don't bring your nonsense to anime forums where strong female charters are part of many shows, just like there are strong male charters. |
 To have you, Id give a billion lives A-Chan best girl |
| I have a problem with this test on a fundamental level because from what I can see all it's concerned with is whether it's criteria are met and not the reason why they are met. I'm a biologist, not a film major, but I'm pretty sure it's bullshit. Mostly what I give a shit about when it comes to fiction is story. If an author/writer/director wants to tell a story about women and have it contain only women then that's great, because that's what they set out to do. Same if they wanna create a male power fantasy. Let creatives create the world/story they want. I fucking hate forced inclusivity, because most of the time it gets in the way of the story and turns a piece of fiction into some bastardized thing the creator never wanted to create in the first place. Tests like these exist to point to a disparity and then force inclusion, despite the fact that the test itself completely ignores sociological history and the natural distribution that goes along with that. They're also often used to push some far-left ideological agenda which, incidentally, is another thing I can't fucking stand. |
   |
| This test is clearly thought to measure the "feminisation" (is it english?) of a show/a medium. It is used to criticize shows that reduce women to a secondary character, only interested in the main character. This is used to show a sexist vision of women. Lots of anime could pass the test but could be criticized for their sexist vision of women. |
| Do most anime pass this test? Probably Does it matter? No |
 _______I like rocks__  |
alshu said: Yes, it's not mainly...but a huge chunk of it, about 30% is dedicated to that. This is much even for sport anime. Just because you make up stats about shows you haven't watched doesn't mean they are true. Or perhaps you did and you like to play fool. alshu said: jal90 said: And like, don't hold grudges over random exchanges in here, it's weird. But it is you who attacked first also I suspect your grudge starting around me disagreeing Yuru Camp△ being worthy of AOTY (for 2018). I think we talked once about Yuru Camp. The thread was about the comfiest anime and you got mad at people mentioning Yuru Camp saying that they have zero experience with comfy anime or some shit like that and they were mentioning that show just because it was popular. I also remember that you dropped it after episode one and had a toxic stance about its fandom claiming that they were impolite or they had threatened you. My memory is a bit blurred on this one, what kind of bullshit reason were you sustaining at the time? Also, imagine if I held grudges against anybody who doesn't think Yuru Camp is worthy of AOTY. I would live in pain, it was not even the main candidate for AOTS for most people. alshu said: Oh, but it was called and your ironic "sincerity appreciated" is yet another prove of that. I do appreciate the explanation, non-ironically. That doesn't mean I respect you, much less if you continue through this shit. |
Seijatachiiii said: rogedavi said: --------- woke nonsense ---------- Amatniki said: What a stupid test. An anime doesnt have to have women to be good. In fact the only time an anime that has women is good is when u get to see their tits. Nobody likes female characters that dont get fanserviced. fuckoff with this bullshit You mention gender once and these people loose their minds. Their knee jerk reaction is to tell you to "fuck off with your sjw feminist bullshit". I just want an open discussion on whether or not this test would be practical with anime as much as it is with some western movies. Who knew any discussion of gender equality was so offensive lmao I totally agree. They think woman are just objects. They bring up shows like Free or reverse harems and have a shit fit when a show sexually exploiting men begins airing. Shows like Free make up 1% of anime. The rest is, like, 85% of shows made for boys/men with woman as accessories. I don’t care that these shows exist (censorship is wrong), but don’t sit there like a fucking hypocrite and whine about the next ‘fujobait’. It would be nice if alongside these shows the studios would choose to put out more gender diverse shows that could pass tests like the Bechdel test. There just aren’t enough shows like that and I believe this alienates a lot of women from watching anime. There needs to be more content. You’re going to get A LOT of hate for your post. A few years ago this forum was basically made up of incels. Slowly it’s been changing. |
Daitanfutekina said: I was thinking about harems until rule three lol Most series are 12/13 episodes long, even on harems there will be at some point an scene when they talk about dumb stuff like fire trucks or making their own band to say anything. |
|
More topics from this board
» Former anime sex symbols who nobody really talks about anymoreTheBlockernator - Nov 22 |
20 |
by ProudElitist
»»
1 minute ago |
|
» Uma Musume - Pretty Waifu War (Quarterfinals) ( 1 2 3 )Minkalex - Nov 8 |
130 |
by Duado
»»
2 minutes ago |
|
» Is there any voice actor whose voice you don’t like?tanjiromybaby - 2 hours ago |
11 |
by ApfelMyName
»»
8 minutes ago |
|
» Must see animeApfelMyName - Yesterday |
21 |
by ApfelMyName
»»
12 minutes ago |
|
» do you think it's weird for a man to be making or watching moe animesYmir_The_Viking - 3 hours ago |
14 |
by Maou_heika
»»
23 minutes ago |