| The thing I don't get is why people complain about there being too much fanservice in anime that are clearly tagged " ecchi". |
ToG25thBaam said: Not a bait and not my point. Anyone who wanted to watch a zombie anime would go to HotD first and most people expected something like The Walking Dead. But that is putting their misinformed expectations on the show, you can't blame it for not being what they want it to be. The show doesn't lie and hide its ecchi elements, it's obvious from the very cover or the opening sequence 2 minutes into the first episode, same with the manga covers. It's nothing short of stupid to blame a show for fulfilling its goals. It's the action show with hot girls, for people who wanted exactly that. I was trying to make a case of a fanservice filled zombie anime aka HotD vs a properly written one. Not that hard to imagine how awesome HotD would've been without the fanservice. I don't know. I wanted HotD with fanservice, so no, I don't imagine that. But even so, assuming HotD is bad, I can't see how it would magically become better by removing the fanservice. I don't really want to defend the show too much, as I was disappointed myself, but I hate this notion you present, that you can have either a "properly written" show or one filled with fanservice, as if they were exclusive. They are not. |
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| Some combination of: Low sex drive (it does nothing for them). Envious (it makes them mad they aren't getting any). Religious / non-religious puritanism (they think sex has a special place and doesn't belong in entertainment, they're fond of the word 'degenerate'). Artsy pretentious people pretending to have a high-brow, refined 'taste' (they think sexual themes are not intellectual enough because that's what they've been told, in spite of how much of a important role sexuality plays in the human condition). All of these overlap and it's often the case that the third and fourth are excuses for the first and second. I can't stand any of them. Sexuality is an intimate part of the human soul. All of our being, our very existance revolves around it. I guess for this reason I don't mind if people don't like fan service for the puritanical reasons. We have similar beliefs about the importance of sex as part of being human, I think it's the importance and seriousness of entertainment on which we disagree. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
| Fanservice is by definition bad directing, since it takes time out of the pure plot to appease a certain subset of fans. In anime, it's often jarring. You would have middle school girls billed as the typical innocent nerdy student, only to have low pans showing off their legs. It increases the required suspension of disbelief. It's sometimes plot and character breaking. It takes you out of the scene to notice something that shouldn't be in the scene. You can say that I have a low sex drive, that I am envious or religious, artsy, pretentious, or a prude. Actually, I prefer real women, in the real context that women exist, not scantily clad animated girls in non sexual scenes. At least Hollywood comes up with some kind of justification. If the characters are having sex, then I guess it makes sense for them to take their clothes off. But that middle school girl wasn't having sex when she slipped and fell and exposed her undies, or someone fell on her boobs (in real life, that would probably hurt), and her bra strap magically slipped off. To begin with, MC's little sister didn't even have a sexual context in the story. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Look, I like women and I do like seeing "Eyecandy," don't get me wrong. Thing is the fan service is shit/annoying most of the time. Not because they aren't well drawn or anything, I mean a nice ass is a nice ass. However, the problem is simply "WHY?" All those scenes? They can all be excluded, they don't have to be there, they seriously don't have to. It won't necessarily kill the anime, for me at least, but again, its not really necessary I'm not talking about Ecchi, I'm pretty sure that's intentional. Also notice how I said most, some comedy shows do it right, EX: by not killing the the tension of the previous joke, or is set-up correctly. A good example of how NOT to fucking do one is one scene from Steins;Gate(spoiler) "HAHAHAHAHA, this scene is funny because big tits, and characters are bleeding from noses" Is that actually funny? If it is to you great, not issue with me. I don't find that funny, because its simply "tits are funny" That's just flat boring humor. Like those shitty marvel jokes. Now don't get the wrong idea I'm not shitting on women or anything, I'm talking about -----FAN SERVICE---- Yes I have to make it clear. Also now that I think about it I'm sure women who watch anime, some would feel the reverse too, but that's just a guess though. So what to take away from this? Japan thinks tits are funny. |
| warning this idiot is a professional retard |
| Well I mean I get annoyed a lot if there's fanservice all the time because it's not helpful to the story. |
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| I do have a problem with ecchi fanservice in some cases, mostly in sows that go for a serious tone, or when the scenes feel forced. What I find very annoying is the constant sexualization of mostly female characters in many shows, it’s almost the default way of presenting female characters in anime, and it’s not like I generally dislike sexualization in anime, but it being so prevalent and used as a lazy sales pitch is what I find very off putting. |
xShinigami3125Jun 25, 2019 1:05 AM
xShinigami3125 said: It seems to me that quite often when it's completely symmetric out of sexual morality there's still a lot of complaint about the female characters only. What comes to mind was the Star Trek fanbase reacting negatively to the sexualization of T'Pol in this particular scene:I do have a problem with ecchi fanservice in some cases, mostly in sows that go for a serious tone, or when the scenes feel forced. What I find very annoying is the constant sexualization of mostly female characters in many shows, it’s almost the default way of presenting female characters in anime, and it’s not like I generally dislike sexualization in anime, but it being so prevalent and used as a lazy sales pitch is what I find very off putting.  For whatever reason no one really complained about Tucker getting the same treatment: it just seems like sexual morality and a "girls don't poop"-kind of mentality to me, having an idea that females are pure and must be kept pure so when any incidence of them not being as much is præsented this shatters the dream. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: xShinigami3125 said: It seems to me that quite often when it's completely symmetric out of sexual morality there's still a lot of complaint about the female characters only. What comes to mind was the Star Trek fanbase reacting negatively to the sexualization of T'Pol in this particular scene:I do have a problem with ecchi fanservice in some cases, mostly in sows that go for a serious tone, or when the scenes feel forced. What I find very annoying is the constant sexualization of mostly female characters in many shows, it’s almost the default way of presenting female characters in anime, and it’s not like I generally dislike sexualization in anime, but it being so prevalent and used as a lazy sales pitch is what I find very off putting. For whatever reason no one really complained about Tucker getting the same treatment: it just seems like sexual morality and a "girls don't poop"-kind of mentality to me, having an idea that females are pure and must be kept pure so when any incidence of them not being as much is præsented this shatters the dream. Like i said, the prevalence of it is what makes it a problem for me, and at least I need the shows i have seen, female characters are the ones that receive that treatment far more often, and in a manner that exceeds simply nudity. Like i already said in my first post I have no problem with sexualization in general, but the way its used, and hw often is what I dislike about it. |
xShinigami3125 said: I'm not so sure the common public mentality has to do with prævalence as much as with præserving the idea of female innocence though.Sphinxter said: It seems to me that quite often when it's completely symmetric out of sexual morality there's still a lot of complaint about the female characters only. What comes to mind was the Star Trek fanbase reacting negatively to the sexualization of T'Pol in this particular scene: For whatever reason no one really complained about Tucker getting the same treatment: it just seems like sexual morality and a "girls don't poop"-kind of mentality to me, having an idea that females are pure and must be kept pure so when any incidence of them not being as much is præsented this shatters the dream. Like i said, the prevalence of it is what makes it a problem for me, and at least I need the shows i have seen, female characters are the ones that receive that treatment far more often, and in a manner that exceeds simply nudity. Like i already said in my first post I have no problem with sexualization in general, but the way its used, and hw often is what I dislike about it. Like take we the subject of violence: males are far more often portrayed as the victim of violence — comical or serious — in fiction yet there similarly seems to be more outrage when females are portrayed as such. Apart from that I'm not entirely sure it is so much more common — I think for the most part there's just more of a fuzz made about it. Every "Disney Princess" film ever made is full of shots like these:   |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| won't talk about echi or fan service anime: I personnaly dislike it because I don't watch anime to be stimulated sexualy, or to have a boner or anything, I watch anime for.. well all the reasons why one watches anime. exept for exeptions(kill la kill for example) fanservice takes my attention from the anime, and I dislike it. if I wanna fap I'll do it to hentai or porn. |
Sphinxter said: xShinigami3125 said: I'm not so sure the common public mentality has to do with prævalence as much as with præserving the idea of female innocence though.Like i said, the prevalence of it is what makes it a problem for me, and at least I need the shows i have seen, female characters are the ones that receive that treatment far more often, and in a manner that exceeds simply nudity. Like i already said in my first post I have no problem with sexualization in general, but the way its used, and hw often is what I dislike about it. Like take we the subject of violence: males are far more often portrayed as the victim of violence — comical or serious — in fiction yet there similarly seems to be more outrage when females are portrayed as such. Apart from that I'm not entirely sure it is so much more common — I think for the most part there's just more of a fuzz made about it. Every "Disney Princess" film ever made is full of shots like these: What does your perception of the public common mentality have to do with my opinion ? I was simply stating what I think about the matter, totally unrelated from anyone else. And those two examples aren’t exactly comparable to what many female characters are subjected to. I mean comparing a shirtless dude to stuff you see in ecchi or harem anime is just laughable. |
Imaishi said: My choice of word may not have been the best but I am pretty sure it's not hard to get what I am trying to say here. At this point it is pretty much arguing about technicality instead of talking about the topic at hand.I don't really want to defend the show too much, as I was disappointed myself, but I hate this notion you present, that you can have either a "properly written" show or one filled with fanservice, as if they were exclusive. They are not. As a teenager growing up back when the series was first released, knowing that it's a zombie anime, as edgy as this sounds, I wanted more action, more about survival and less of the ecchi scenes. Yea it's still pretty awesome, but it takes away from the seriousness which is the point I am trying to make here. Note: This is not arguing against HotD, never was my point to say that HotD sucks because it chose the ecchi route rather than the opposite, and I've even repeated myself in saying that the show is pretty awesome. The whole point is that, HotD is funny/ridiculous awesome, not the badass awesome. And if surviving a zombie apocalypse is funny then it naturally takes away from the tension, a dire situation should not be funny. That is the whole point of my initial post, responding to the OP questioning how fanservice takes away from the quality of the series. To reiterate, I am fully aware that funny/ecchi awesome is what HotD was gunning for. I am just using this series as an example because it just happen to be the first series that came up in my mind while I was reading this thread. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
ToG25thBaam said: Not a bait and not my point. Anyone who wanted to watch a zombie anime would go to HotD first and most people expected something like The Walking Dead. And I never did say it wasn't good. I was trying to make a case of a fanservice filled zombie anime aka HotD vs a properly written one. Not that hard to imagine how awesome HotD would've been without the fanservice. I find it impossible to imagine HotD without the fanservice at all. Putting in a boatload of fanservice is the only idea HotD has, it's the only thing which makes it what it is. The basic idea of the zombie is incredibly misanthropic, imagining being surrounded by brainless creatures fit only for slaughter. Narratives with zombies in them are distinguished first and foremost by how they avoid taking the idea seriously. So you have Romero's films which are satirical, HotD just wholeheartedly embraces excess, Gakkou Gurashi recasts them as a kind of natural disaster and avoids putting anything remotely like a warrior figure in its cast, etc. So HotD without the idea of HotD is... nothing. (I hope that this show "The Walking Dead" has some way of avoiding taking the idea seriously too, and nobody would ever expect a zombie story to be like that. But looking at a few descriptions, and knowing, as I do, the recurring problems of American television, I'm not feeling optimistic.) |
logopolis said: The idea is a plot device to invoke a sense of helplessness in face of a plausible extinction, it's not just about mindless killing. A lot goes into just not getting bitten by these mindless puppets as a completely normal human being with no superpower, especially teenagers who normally do not own firearms. Show could be as bland as a limited creative mind, or could be as engaging in the hand of a brilliant mind. For example: Parasyte, which turned out to be brilliant in spite of the generic premise.I find it impossible to imagine HotD without the fanservice at all. Putting in a boatload of fanservice is the only idea HotD has, it's the only thing which makes it what it is. The basic idea of the zombie is incredibly misanthropic, imagining being surrounded by brainless creatures fit only for slaughter. Narratives with zombies in them are distinguished first and foremost by how they avoid taking the idea seriously. So you have Romero's films which are satirical, HotD just wholeheartedly embraces excess, Gakkou Gurashi recasts them as a kind of natural disaster and avoids putting anything remotely like a warrior figure in its cast, etc. So HotD without the idea of HotD is... nothing. (I hope that this show "The Walking Dead" has some way of avoiding taking the idea seriously too, and nobody would ever expect a zombie story to be like that. But looking at a few descriptions, and knowing, as I do, the recurring problems of American television, I'm not feeling optimistic.) Gakkou Gurashi explored that sense of helplessness pretty well imo, The zombie genre could even be about a character study case, doesn't necessarily have to be action focused, so I disagree with you saying that it couldn't be awesome if done in a completely different way. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
logopolis said: (I hope that this show "The Walking Dead" has some way of avoiding taking the idea seriously too, and nobody would ever expect a zombie story to be like that. But looking at a few descriptions, and knowing, as I do, the recurring problems of American television, I'm not feeling optimistic.) Believe me, TWD takes itself quite seriously actually. I'm not a fan of the series, just thought I'd give you a heads up if that's not what you're looking for. |
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| Beside obvious point being preferences I honestly think due to how long any sexual media has been frowned on and downplayed it affects too how some view sexual fanservice. B-rated movies used nudity to attract interest by showing female actors in frontal nudity and cause controversies to get some fame it just became known as gimmicky thing and cheap at that, basically trash. But difference with anime is how "extreme" sexual fanservice can turn into compared to live action, some folks may just be uncomfortable with it. ToG25thBaam said: Robinne said: Not a bait and not my point. Anyone who wanted to watch a zombie anime would go to HotD first and most people expected something like The Walking Dead. And I never did say it wasn't good.Nice bait lol HotD anime was never meant to be taken seriously, in this case the constant fanservice was clearly a director's standpoint, it's pretty obvious it's aware it's ridiculous and tries to make the most of it. Whether you like this kind of thing or not is another story but that's pretty much the worst point you could make against fanservice. I was trying to make a case of a fanservice filled zombie anime aka HotD vs a properly written one. Not that hard to imagine how awesome HotD would've been without the fanservice. Instead of expecting The walking dead you should have expected something akin to Zombie ass: Toilet of the dead, Rape zombie: Lust of the dead, The big tits zombie and so on. HoTD just follows in the path of having horror, gore, humor and sexual elements. It's nothing innovating but what separates it from others is the freedom animation as a medium gives, they can go full nuts with it. If it was live action movie it could really just be labeled under "tokyo shock/gore" films. Trying to write HoTD in a serious way would take away what the series is about, and by that remove what makes it even unique in zombie genre. Personally I think these stories have their own value and entertainment and I won't be disappointed by them not being "true horror", but to each their own really. |
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| I can see couples hating it for obvious reasons.~ |
 サディスティックな考え "JUST KILL ME." サディスティックマインド |
| lmao wtf an anime without fanservice is like cereal without milk. Who the fuck eats cereal without milk? |
 ❅Aoishi❅ ✿My Profile ✿MyAnimeList ✿MyMangaList |
| Because it's annoying and useless. If you want to see naked 3d characters watch hentai. |
| Most likely it's due to being sexually insecure, inflexibly religious, or not male. Kuro_Neko04 said: lmao wtf an anime without fanservice is like cereal without milk. Who the fuck eats cereal without milk? I do, soggy cereal is kinda gross, although I do generally drink milk with it, just not in it. I liken it to being offered free money with no strings attached, I can't see any reason to object to getting richer unless that fat stack of bills looks like it's been floating in the toilet (aka not my fanservice fetish). |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| For me personally I prefer to watch shows that i guess for lack of a better term are more "serious" anime. Its hard for me to watch a show and enjoy it when there's a lot of fan service unless its the type of show where I just sit back and not think too hard like Highschool of the dead and seven deadly sins, though my issue with fan service in say seven deadly sins was that it was kinda just fan service for the sake of fan service whereas atleast in highschool of the dead it was funny. |
| I don't think it's an overall hatred for ecchi stuff just a frustration for when it's not really needed and kills the mood of the show just to get some tiddies or ass in there. For me I don't care all too much unless it doesn't make sense in the context of the show. That's when I get frustrated. It seems a lot of people share that sentiment. Don't let the ecchi haters get you down. |
| It's annoying when it just gets randomly shoved into an anime out of nowhere. Like you're watching a show where there has been no fanservice, the plot doesn't have anything to do with showing of anime tiddies but then boom out of nowhere panty shot. If you're gonna put fanservice in your anime at least commit to it fully and have tits and ass all over the place instead of just half-assing it. |
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| Because it is hard to take character seriously if camera is zooming on to their panties or ass all the time. Fanservice is especially bad during dramatic moments cause it ruins the tension when when camera is zooming on cleavage or female have oversized bouncing boobs. Then there are shows that are noting more then fanservice, instead of relaying on plot, character development to sell the show, they rely on facservice and fetishes. That is the reason why there are so many harems out there with shit writing. |
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TF2Mario said: I'd say fanservice ruins a characters "purity", or rather if you have great respect towards a character, you don't want to see them sexualized. I love fan service, i want to smash that purity and want them to get sexualized c: |
| I'm not one to complain about fan service in anime. It's often a bonus when watching an anime that might not otherwise have those kinds of moments in it. I have other things in life I'd much rather about like my weight and past student loans wanting their money back. |
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| I mean, I think it's fair to have some questions if shows like Naruto, Bleach, Dragon Ball and One Piece were your thing, and then suddenly stumbling upon something like High School DxD and wonder why the girls are naked and what relevance that has to the story and characters. |
FacelessVixenJul 16, 2019 1:31 PM
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| To people saying that sexy fanservice is done because "the creator is lazy" or the show isn't good so they're making up for it with fanservice, think about it this way... Fanservice typically means girls wearing short skirts, having cleavage, big boobs, and maybe panty shots right? A male character trying to grope some boobs? Maybe a more intense fanservice show will have a female character bathing naked? Given that so much anime takes place in a high school setting, this isn't laziness on the creators parts, its realistic. Have you ever seen teenage girls out in the wild? Lots of high school aged girls wear really skimpy outfits. Some of them are skimpy enough that you can see their underwear sometimes. Some girls have big boobs. Some of them wear lowcut bras that show off their cleavage. People take fucking baths. Young guys are horny little fucks who love squeezing some boobs. None of it is pointless or outside the realm of reality. Real life is sexual, censoring things that are a part of daily life or not including it for fear of offending a squeamish audience is stupid. Not the creators. Either enjoy it and jerk off or move on, but don't claim its the creators laziness or that its poor quality for portraying the world realistically. Now if it there was a fanservice heavy anime taking place in a historical setting, that's a legitimate complaint because girls back then didn't wear skimpy outfits. |
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YattaX said: Because it is hard to take character seriously if camera is zooming on to their panties or ass all the time. Fanservice is especially bad during dramatic moments cause it ruins the tension when when camera is zooming on cleavage or female have oversized bouncing boobs. Then there are shows that are noting more then fanservice, instead of relaying on plot, character development to sell the show, they rely on facservice and fetishes. That is the reason why there are so many harems out there with shit writing. Um, buddy, have you seen your signature? |
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katsucats said: Fanservice is by definition bad directing, since it takes time out of the pure plot to appease a certain subset of fans. In anime, it's often jarring. You would have middle school girls billed as the typical innocent nerdy student, only to have low pans showing off their legs. It increases the required suspension of disbelief. It's sometimes plot and character breaking. It takes you out of the scene to notice something that shouldn't be in the scene. You can say that I have a low sex drive, that I am envious or religious, artsy, pretentious, or a prude. Actually, I prefer real women, in the real context that women exist, not scantily clad animated girls in non sexual scenes. At least Hollywood comes up with some kind of justification. If the characters are having sex, then I guess it makes sense for them to take their clothes off. But that middle school girl wasn't having sex when she slipped and fell and exposed her undies, or someone fell on her boobs (in real life, that would probably hurt), and her bra strap magically slipped off. To begin with, MC's little sister didn't even have a sexual context in the story. But girls are frequently scantily clad in non-sexual environments. Literally just walk around a mall in the summer time (which is right now) and you'll see what I mean. |
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| Because most of these fanservice are not necessary, and also out of place. Imagine watching a thrill tv show, like walking dead or something, and then they suddenly sexualize the character taking a shower. Now imagine this being done repeatedly. |
WHEN IT RAINS, IT POURS. |
| Because it's like everywhere in anime these days. The abundance of fanservice makes present-day anime so difficult to take very seriously. Ecchi is part of fanservice and the anime formula, ecchi is abundant in basic literature called light novels and light novels are overrated as f**k (if you're grown and you read light novels, then you either read real literature like Shawshank Redemption or get a life!). |
YattaX said: Because it is hard to take character seriously if camera is zooming on to their panties or ass all the time. *looks at sig* I see your point, yeah I see it quite clearly. |
Ryuk9428 said: Now if it there was a fanservice heavy anime taking place in a historical setting, that's a legitimate complaint because girls back then didn't wear skimpy outfits. Or even in fairy tales. Eg  VS (including Disney and most adaptatations)  Vs  |
| Its seems like fanservice is just nudity and ecchi stuff for all of you... Nobody is talkin about the "kawaii"/moe fanservice which has its own kind of a genre: "cute girls doig cute thing", dont get me wrong, I´ve learnt to like it thanks to Non Non Biyori, but the moe fanservice can be annoyin too, just see Kimetsu no Yaiba. The regular plots and story lines of action shonens could be considered fanservice aswell. Gore and grotesque stuff like rape or bloody scenes are fanservice too, lots of teens minded thinks that stuff makes a show good, like Berserk or Goblin Slayer... |
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| I am supporting the first answer by Deg. Everyone should read it. |
Bakchos said: WOW waifu much *rols eyes*it's different seeing your girlfriend in a more revealing position for the first time than it is seeing a random girl you never saw before. It will turn you on the same way but the emotional gratification is different regardless. ot Bakchos said: while that is true, its also inserted without context or at bad times. Not to mention, its not really required or portrays the char in a different untoward light, fans might not want to see.I respect your opinion. On the other hand, equating sexual fanservice to porn is a bit flawed in my eyes. Sexual fanservice in otherwise decent shows is different to porn because you have more to go on about regarding the character's personality and likeability than porn. Like, it's different seeing your girlfriend in a more revealing position for the first time than it is seeing a random girl you never saw before. It will turn you on the same way but the emotional gratification is different regardless. the panty shot in helsing was totally unrequired and came far off left field. As much as I love those chars, the topless nudity in Ikikitousen seems part of the story and doesnt feel fan servicey or erotic. |
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