1 Mushishi
2. Monster
3. Cowboy Bebop
4. Serial Experiment Lain
5. Neon Genesis Evangelion
6. Bakemonogatari
7. Samurai Champloo
8. Kino no Tabi
9. Made in Abyss
10. Shinsekai Yori
Ooo good picks!! Gankutsuou is amazing, it's an adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo, which is often cited as the greatest revenge story of all time. Mugen no Ryvius is amazing, too, exploring all the different ways society could work in a place where children are stranded in space.
Aww, thanks so much!! I'm glad that you're happy :D
I think I vetted your list and scores, and for the most part they all seemed within a degree of reason. The #1 advice I can give is to just be yourself, formulate your own original thought- and not worry about the community and what they like or don't like.
Don';t hate something just because its popular or the fans are annoying.
Don't overrate something just because you feel its mean score isnt where it should be, and people are harsh towards it.
I feel like if you have your own identity and don't worry about any other external factors when it comes to your personal scoring, then you've already won.
So many of these people want to look "cool smart or different" - but they're not.
Anyway- you're hearing from me what you'll probably never hear from a true elitist. I'll still be painted as one though, for daring to call people out on it.
Nah I mostly copy pasted previous arguments I've made in the past- I've beaten all these topics over and over dozens, and dozens of times.
Noone can really talk shit about Mushishi- never heard anyone speak poorly of it ever. It's a great show, no real argument to the contrary exists.
I've watched a good portion of typical elitist shows. My problem with elitism is less with what they find to be good - cause generally speaking they usually are good, and more theyre incessant, consistent trashing of popular shows. That's the part that gets to me.
And that's why i continue to forcefully push discourse on these topics.
That's just completely false. I've been on this site and at the forefront of discourse on this topic probably since you were in middle school.
Your Ego/attitude could literally be the furthest thing from what makes you an elitist.
What if you're a 14 year old that says
"NARUTO IS THE BEST ANIME EVER, AND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT THEN YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT"
Does that make you an elitist?
Of course not, and aboslutely every rational functioning human being wouldn't claim that guy to be an elitist.
But what if you say this
"Legend of the Galactic Heroes incorporates such a wide array of themes that are well constructed and composed with deep, intellectual characters that drive the plot forward. Shows like Code Geass are just a failed attempt at drawing inspiration from LoTGH and no anime can ever recapture its brilliance." "Lelouch is just an edgy edgelord and the writing in Code Geass panders to the highest common denominator of anime fans.
Yupp that's p much elitsm.
What if you don't say that directly ? Would you agree scores can tell someone's perception? Well a near consensus would say yes, at the very least scores condenses what someone thought of a show into a number.
What happens when someone has ONLY those social consensus "good" shows with high scores / favourites and has a disdain for every single other popular show that deviates from that consensus?
For example if someone has
LotGH, Texhnolyse, Ergo Proxy, Haibane Renmei, Ashita no Joe, Aria, Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy, Monster, Mushishi, etc their only shows scored 8 or higher
And then consistently takes the most popular shows every season, every year and rates them 4 or below
What kind of information can we ascertain about that person?
Not sure why people try so hard to obfuscate on this topic.
I literally promise your ego has 0.00% of whether you're an elitist or not.
Ecchi/Casual fans can be some of the worst human beings alive. Jerks, assholes, serial killers w/e - i don't care what they do but they'll never be an eliist.
Well noone has written and spoken out more on elitism and defined it more than i have
Here's some points I've made in the past that accurately reflect my ideals
Well if you read any of my discussions you would know I don't really like writing essays for replies, it's not an effective use of time, so i'm just gonna quickly repudiate some of your misconceptions.
a. I say i don't endorse digibro because I don't rate him as a reviewer. I think he's one of the biggest examples of sophism in the business, who literally makes hour long videos on anime he hates trying to portray fallacious conclusions. i.e. that SAO is one of the worst anime of all time. It's literally not worth me repudiating that claim any further than I already have on multiple occassions. I also contribute him as one of the key factors for the vitriol hatred and change of perception targeted at SAO over the last 3-4 years. There's no doubt he was a catalyst in all that, and I often find him one of the most toxic members of the anime community. The reason I've referenced that video multiple times is because he's right, and I think he says it perfectly especially calling out people like AnimeEveryDay. Same for Mother's Basement I don't rate MB either, but i respect that (3 years later) he finally gave the second half of his SAO analysis. It may have taken three years and some death threats, and not everything in his video is correct or on plot, but at least he FINALLY acknowledged the second half of his SAO review, rather than disproportionately focusing (or in Digibro's case - only focusing) on the negative aspects of SAO, which have blown so far out of proportion, it goes beyond comical at this point. Same for Pedantic Romantic, I don't rate him either - in fact i think the only reason he has any relevance (and I've literally argued with him directly) is from riding Digibro's dick. I called him out on it personally. That being said I appreciated parts of his Sound Euphonium analysis. I think he was mostly on plot, and I've also showed that video to people. So the point being that I don't have to rate a reviewer to be willing to say "Hey this guy got it right this time." I don't let my hated for MB, Digibro, Pedantic, or anyone else dictate that every single video they produce is garbage, and I'm more than happy to give credit when it's deserved.
I'm not really sure what the second third of your argument is even getting at. If anything literally you reciprocated my EXACT words. Top ten lists are meant to be a form of expression. Anime is an art form. Conforming to what AED or Zephsilver or anyone else says shows a distinct lack of individuality and original thought. DO some people, maybe possibly genuinely love Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse, Haibane Renmei, Mushishi, LoTGH, Tatami Galaxy? Yes of course. In fact I've never really spoken negatively about the qualities of any of those shows. Do I think the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people that have those carbon copy top tens - you know the list by now (and it was well articulated in Digibro's video) do so for social conformity? Abso-fucking-lutely. Not even the slightest sentiment of doubt can exist.
Personally I loved Katanagatari and Mushishi, they're both shows I have in my top 20 all time out of the endless plethora of anime I have watched. Yet neither finds a slot in my top ten. And the biggest problem in elitist culture is the unprecedented lack of consistency and respect for titles that are NOT those 10-12 shows. The vitriol hatred for any show that obtains mass popularity; whether that be SAO, Erased, Re:Zero, Akame ga Kill, Charlotte!, etc. Hell Zephsilver even has the unmitigated audacity to rate Code Geass a 4/10. - Like I said my biggest problem is the lack of consistency.
Everyone can have their own opinion, their own taste, their own favourites. That's never up for debate. I literally have a friend who won't watch anime unless it's got heavy action content. The running joke being "If it doesn't have guns it's not for him." I have another mate who prefers ecchi. That's his thing. He doesn't like serious, dramatic shows. He likes the laid back romance-comedy bullshit, takes the piss, and enjoys some tits. That's perfectly fine too. That's like arguing chocolate or vanilla. You can never argue preferences.
What you can argue is quality, and this is where my sophism rhetoric comes into play. People like VERONIN, people like ZEPHSILVER, people like ANIMEVERYDAY, and the list goes on are not claiming preferences. AED had the unmitigated audacity to tell me AND I LITERALLY QUOTE "Erased and Re:Zero were two of the worst shows of the year." Simply this is not an opinion, this is a fallacious statement. Stronger opinions need to be corroborated by facts and evidence, it what makes a thesis (opinion) viable. Simply it is not realistic to make that claim and be able to support it. If I make the statement "SAO is the best anime of all time" then rightfully so i would be lambasted because it's not an "opinion" that can be corroborated. Or let's take it a step further - could i say "Mars of Destruction is the best anime of all time?" Of course not, because we have valid measures to evaluate quality in art. There is tangible elements - Story, Characterisation, Setting, Animation, Art, Music, etc. Art has always been something that can be objectively quantified. It's how we know something like Katanagatari tells a better story than Highschool DxD. And the worst part is these elitists - and they know exactly what they're doing - in fact Zephsilver even LITERALLY mentioned in his Re:Zero review "That he is the guy there to crash the hype party." They take solace not in being objective critical analysts (because that would require proportionately weighing both the positive and negative aspects of anime) but rather practising sophism. That's my largest problem with elitist culture, they present this facade that they're being fair and balanced (if you're American think Fox News); when in reality what they're doing is trashing shows that are popular, propping up shows (maybe some of them even rightfully so) that are unpopular, and then in turn degrading anyone who deviates from that standard. Trust me as an UNAPOLOGETIC SAO fan, I have and will continue to argue SAO until the sky turns fucking purple. Yes I'm beyond arrogant, but I'm highly intelligent and have a vast amount of anime watching experience, and noone's been ever been able to put together a comprehensive argument for how SAO is a bad show; especially relative other shounen. (think Bleach, Naruto, etc). One guy, and I put this on my mother's grave literally told me "It's weeb fodder trash." I literally don't know what that means???? That's rhetoric, that's a cliche, it literally means nothing lol.
In this specific argument what catalysed this event is an acquinatance of mine (rightfully so) called out Zephsilver on one of his laughable reviews. Not Zephsilver himself, but some wanna be elitist attacked that person for doing so. I laughed at the guy's favourites because it was very predictable and boring, and the fact he gave every single popular show that's hated on (Charlotte, SAO, Erased, Akame ga Kill, etc) low scores told me what I needed to know about that person. I'm not gonna waste my time asking every single boring person why they have Ergo Proxy as the top anime of all time, cause like DIGIBRO said we all pretty much know the answer.
Anyway, that's as much as I'm gonna write back on this. Ended up writing more than I anticipated tbh, but I'm definitely too lazy to do this again. If you have any further questioning / bitching to do, I'll give you my skype lol.
LOL I've never seen haibane Renmei - so i don't actually speak on the show itself. I just use it as the most proto-typical elitist choice of what qualifies a good show.
You can access the BBCode code by pressing on quick reply & next to the cancel button there will be an option called BBCode press on it & you'll find it.
This manga/anime gives off a feeling inside of me that no other series gives, I have other personal favourites but I feel like this is on a different level. The characters, world, politics and philosophy that the manga presents are so brilliant and make you appreciate them so much. The thing is, the anime hasn't even gotten to its strong points yet. I'm keeping it a 10 as it's been faithful to the source material for now, I'll see what happens later as it airs and depending on it's consistency, it might stay a 10.
All Comments (19) Comments
Ooo yeah, then you'll probably really like it.
I do like Carole & Tuesday, though I do need to watch more episodes.
Aww, thanks so much!! I'm glad that you're happy :D
And it's all right.
Is there anything from it that's catching your eye?
And of course!
Don';t hate something just because its popular or the fans are annoying.
Don't overrate something just because you feel its mean score isnt where it should be, and people are harsh towards it.
I feel like if you have your own identity and don't worry about any other external factors when it comes to your personal scoring, then you've already won.
So many of these people want to look "cool smart or different" - but they're not.
Anyway- you're hearing from me what you'll probably never hear from a true elitist. I'll still be painted as one though, for daring to call people out on it.
Noone can really talk shit about Mushishi- never heard anyone speak poorly of it ever. It's a great show, no real argument to the contrary exists.
I've watched a good portion of typical elitist shows. My problem with elitism is less with what they find to be good - cause generally speaking they usually are good, and more theyre incessant, consistent trashing of popular shows. That's the part that gets to me.
And that's why i continue to forcefully push discourse on these topics.
And of course we have my MAL interview, where i destroy yet again - on the topic of elitism.
Your Ego/attitude could literally be the furthest thing from what makes you an elitist.
What if you're a 14 year old that says
"NARUTO IS THE BEST ANIME EVER, AND IF YOU CAN'T SEE THAT THEN YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT"
Does that make you an elitist?
Of course not, and aboslutely every rational functioning human being wouldn't claim that guy to be an elitist.
But what if you say this
"Legend of the Galactic Heroes incorporates such a wide array of themes that are well constructed and composed with deep, intellectual characters that drive the plot forward. Shows like Code Geass are just a failed attempt at drawing inspiration from LoTGH and no anime can ever recapture its brilliance." "Lelouch is just an edgy edgelord and the writing in Code Geass panders to the highest common denominator of anime fans.
Yupp that's p much elitsm.
What if you don't say that directly ? Would you agree scores can tell someone's perception? Well a near consensus would say yes, at the very least scores condenses what someone thought of a show into a number.
What happens when someone has ONLY those social consensus "good" shows with high scores / favourites and has a disdain for every single other popular show that deviates from that consensus?
For example if someone has
LotGH, Texhnolyse, Ergo Proxy, Haibane Renmei, Ashita no Joe, Aria, Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy, Monster, Mushishi, etc their only shows scored 8 or higher
And then consistently takes the most popular shows every season, every year and rates them 4 or below
What kind of information can we ascertain about that person?
Not sure why people try so hard to obfuscate on this topic.
I literally promise your ego has 0.00% of whether you're an elitist or not.
Ecchi/Casual fans can be some of the worst human beings alive. Jerks, assholes, serial killers w/e - i don't care what they do but they'll never be an eliist.
Here-s another one of my favourite posts from this thread https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1767425&show=0
Here's some points I've made in the past that accurately reflect my ideals
Well if you read any of my discussions you would know I don't really like writing essays for replies, it's not an effective use of time, so i'm just gonna quickly repudiate some of your misconceptions.
a. I say i don't endorse digibro because I don't rate him as a reviewer. I think he's one of the biggest examples of sophism in the business, who literally makes hour long videos on anime he hates trying to portray fallacious conclusions. i.e. that SAO is one of the worst anime of all time. It's literally not worth me repudiating that claim any further than I already have on multiple occassions. I also contribute him as one of the key factors for the vitriol hatred and change of perception targeted at SAO over the last 3-4 years. There's no doubt he was a catalyst in all that, and I often find him one of the most toxic members of the anime community. The reason I've referenced that video multiple times is because he's right, and I think he says it perfectly especially calling out people like AnimeEveryDay. Same for Mother's Basement I don't rate MB either, but i respect that (3 years later) he finally gave the second half of his SAO analysis. It may have taken three years and some death threats, and not everything in his video is correct or on plot, but at least he FINALLY acknowledged the second half of his SAO review, rather than disproportionately focusing (or in Digibro's case - only focusing) on the negative aspects of SAO, which have blown so far out of proportion, it goes beyond comical at this point. Same for Pedantic Romantic, I don't rate him either - in fact i think the only reason he has any relevance (and I've literally argued with him directly) is from riding Digibro's dick. I called him out on it personally. That being said I appreciated parts of his Sound Euphonium analysis. I think he was mostly on plot, and I've also showed that video to people. So the point being that I don't have to rate a reviewer to be willing to say "Hey this guy got it right this time." I don't let my hated for MB, Digibro, Pedantic, or anyone else dictate that every single video they produce is garbage, and I'm more than happy to give credit when it's deserved.
I'm not really sure what the second third of your argument is even getting at. If anything literally you reciprocated my EXACT words. Top ten lists are meant to be a form of expression. Anime is an art form. Conforming to what AED or Zephsilver or anyone else says shows a distinct lack of individuality and original thought. DO some people, maybe possibly genuinely love Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse, Haibane Renmei, Mushishi, LoTGH, Tatami Galaxy? Yes of course. In fact I've never really spoken negatively about the qualities of any of those shows. Do I think the vast, vast, overwhelming majority of people that have those carbon copy top tens - you know the list by now (and it was well articulated in Digibro's video) do so for social conformity? Abso-fucking-lutely. Not even the slightest sentiment of doubt can exist.
Personally I loved Katanagatari and Mushishi, they're both shows I have in my top 20 all time out of the endless plethora of anime I have watched. Yet neither finds a slot in my top ten. And the biggest problem in elitist culture is the unprecedented lack of consistency and respect for titles that are NOT those 10-12 shows. The vitriol hatred for any show that obtains mass popularity; whether that be SAO, Erased, Re:Zero, Akame ga Kill, Charlotte!, etc. Hell Zephsilver even has the unmitigated audacity to rate Code Geass a 4/10. - Like I said my biggest problem is the lack of consistency.
Everyone can have their own opinion, their own taste, their own favourites. That's never up for debate. I literally have a friend who won't watch anime unless it's got heavy action content. The running joke being "If it doesn't have guns it's not for him." I have another mate who prefers ecchi. That's his thing. He doesn't like serious, dramatic shows. He likes the laid back romance-comedy bullshit, takes the piss, and enjoys some tits. That's perfectly fine too. That's like arguing chocolate or vanilla. You can never argue preferences.
What you can argue is quality, and this is where my sophism rhetoric comes into play. People like VERONIN, people like ZEPHSILVER, people like ANIMEVERYDAY, and the list goes on are not claiming preferences. AED had the unmitigated audacity to tell me AND I LITERALLY QUOTE "Erased and Re:Zero were two of the worst shows of the year." Simply this is not an opinion, this is a fallacious statement. Stronger opinions need to be corroborated by facts and evidence, it what makes a thesis (opinion) viable. Simply it is not realistic to make that claim and be able to support it. If I make the statement "SAO is the best anime of all time" then rightfully so i would be lambasted because it's not an "opinion" that can be corroborated. Or let's take it a step further - could i say "Mars of Destruction is the best anime of all time?" Of course not, because we have valid measures to evaluate quality in art. There is tangible elements - Story, Characterisation, Setting, Animation, Art, Music, etc. Art has always been something that can be objectively quantified. It's how we know something like Katanagatari tells a better story than Highschool DxD. And the worst part is these elitists - and they know exactly what they're doing - in fact Zephsilver even LITERALLY mentioned in his Re:Zero review "That he is the guy there to crash the hype party." They take solace not in being objective critical analysts (because that would require proportionately weighing both the positive and negative aspects of anime) but rather practising sophism. That's my largest problem with elitist culture, they present this facade that they're being fair and balanced (if you're American think Fox News); when in reality what they're doing is trashing shows that are popular, propping up shows (maybe some of them even rightfully so) that are unpopular, and then in turn degrading anyone who deviates from that standard. Trust me as an UNAPOLOGETIC SAO fan, I have and will continue to argue SAO until the sky turns fucking purple. Yes I'm beyond arrogant, but I'm highly intelligent and have a vast amount of anime watching experience, and noone's been ever been able to put together a comprehensive argument for how SAO is a bad show; especially relative other shounen. (think Bleach, Naruto, etc). One guy, and I put this on my mother's grave literally told me "It's weeb fodder trash." I literally don't know what that means???? That's rhetoric, that's a cliche, it literally means nothing lol.
In this specific argument what catalysed this event is an acquinatance of mine (rightfully so) called out Zephsilver on one of his laughable reviews. Not Zephsilver himself, but some wanna be elitist attacked that person for doing so. I laughed at the guy's favourites because it was very predictable and boring, and the fact he gave every single popular show that's hated on (Charlotte, SAO, Erased, Akame ga Kill, etc) low scores told me what I needed to know about that person. I'm not gonna waste my time asking every single boring person why they have Ergo Proxy as the top anime of all time, cause like DIGIBRO said we all pretty much know the answer.
Anyway, that's as much as I'm gonna write back on this. Ended up writing more than I anticipated tbh, but I'm definitely too lazy to do this again. If you have any further questioning / bitching to do, I'll give you my skype lol.
Excellent thread
You can access the BBCode code by pressing on quick reply & next to the cancel button there will be an option called BBCode press on it & you'll find it.