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Takuan_Soho said: The scary thing is that what you wrote isn't necessarily true. The Hideauze could both be human AND a lesser species. We don't know if that is the case, but it most certainly could be true that in the Evolution Party's quest to surpass their human origins to become a space living race they could have made themselves less than human. This we will have to learn. Well, I don't think they devolved - pure opposite, I think they evolved. When the battle of those two factions was taken to space they needed to have better defences against their human enemies that could lead to strenghtening of their nonhuman genes and to forfeiting their remaining humanity in process. Also, those genes in their bodies could adapt and take over with time and now after hundreds and thousands of years they are acting only by instinct - and when something tries to destroy them they simply defend themselves. And they always need more space in universe so they expand to other human sectors. But when tracking origin of this conflict, former Evolvers are to blame. But you are right that due to unforseen mutations there can be more sentient and lesser sentient forms of Hideauze. But this one is definitely more human than ony other: |
Mich666Jun 7, 2013 11:49 AM
| Tossing in my two cents. I'll (try to) keep it brief. I think the Hideauze are still sentient and just as blood-thirsty as the Galactic Alliance. Both sides have waged war so long that there's no point in stopping now. Besides, the Hideauze seem to be quite good as curb-stomping their human rivals. In the battle for dominance in space only one faction can survive. My reasons for believing the Hideauze are sentient? The fact that they hyper-evolved into something resembling their current forms centuries ago. They picked a base of operations/nest that's naturally protected from humans. They created several types of their own species. Fast flower-like soldiers and smaller nautilus-types that can shoot lasers. They have a canon that can regenerate itself, probably using nano-technology. If they had simply become mindless beasts do you really think they would've developed a counter-measure to the GA's large number of ships and laser weapons? I'm just wondering how they create this technology without a human form. I hope Gargantia answers this question! Meanwhile the whale-squid on Earth were not engaged in the war and were not developed for space travel. They were left behind by the Evolvers and free to do whatever they wanted. As the world continued to freeze and then flooded after it thawed, they may have lost contact with the surviving humans. Perhaps they no longer had the need to retain their sentience and as a result become little more than highly intelligent squid things (with creepy vestigial human faces). So the humans left behind on Earth learned to both respect (and fear) the whale-squid in addition to co-existing with them. The Evolvers and Continental Union literally took their war to space, leaving an interesting four-way split. Hideauze vs whale-squid, Earth humans vs the Galactic Alliance. In space both sides are equally guilty in my eyes. I'm enjoying the hell out of this show. Gargantia, Attack on Titan and Valvrave the Liberator are definitely my three top shows of the season. |
silver_huskeyJun 7, 2013 1:40 PM
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| That was an interesting twist. I always thought the Hideauze a human invention, but I never thought they used to be human. From what I’ve seen from this episode and the previous ones, I feel the crusade against the Hideauze is even more justified. The Hideauze have been fighting humans almost since their creation, and there doesn’t appear to be a good way to communicate between the two. Conflict appears to be the only solution, so the humans should make sure their side wins. I really hope Pinion is able to salvage something useful from that facility because the technology it provides could really advance human civilization. |
| Sigh, gen urobochi, first psycho pass, now this. |
Takuan_Soho said: Mich666 said: Well, I don't think they devolved - pure opposite, I think they evolved. Just to be clear, the idea that more "evolved" means "better" or more "successful" is false. Evolve only means to change from what one was before. The most "successful" species (taking survival as the ultimate definition of success) are some of the least "evolved" creatures. Sharks have remained constant for several hundred of millions of years, certain organisms have survived since the dawn of time, whereas some of the most "evolved" creatures have risen, conquered and then went extinct. To say that evolution is the "survival of the fittest" is to engage in a tautology. Why did they survive, because they were fit, how do you know they were fit, because they survived. When I spoke of "devolving" I wasn't speaking in the terms of "evolution", but in the sense of morality. This is why I put it in quotes. Actually that is wrong as well, the process of evolution isn't change, it's certain genes (mutations) being passed on in the surviving branches of your species. Say your species moves to a colder place, and a few of you develop a gene for combating cold. These individuals will survive (which leads to kids), and slowly spread their gene to the rest of the population over time (/generations). Evolution is simply mutations that stay within the gene-pool of the species. This can be made observable on species with VERY short lifespans. |
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| Umm... the fact is that the word "evolution" has several differing meanings. Arguing about one of them being more accurate or better is pointless. Just take a look at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/evolution |
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Kyube said: Xartax, I think, you know what evolution means, but I would be a bit careful with the wording, especially mutation, change, to develop and of course evolution. Someone who doesn't know this concept might be mislead. But I would disagree with Takuan_Soho about the meaning of evolved, because it is common to say that an evolved species is a strong/good /well adapted to the enviroment/suddenly became frighteningly intelligent species, what is somewhat "better". It might not be always correct to speak of such, but whoever cares, if everyone knows what they wanted to say. And I wouldn't call sharks not very evolved, in fact quite the opposite and instead I would call bacteriae not very evolved. I would use evolved somewhat like a synonym to complex structured or had undergone several changes over the time. Nope, evolve simply mean what I just said, that a certain mutation has been made common among most of the gene-pool. It doesn't have to be "better". Using that term is wrong, anyways, because what is bad right now doesn't have to be bad later, and it definitely wasn't at the time it occured (or it wouldn't have happened in the first place EDIT: I mean, the mutation wouldn't have survived. It could still appear). Take some peoples disposition towards storing fat, for example. A great trait to have when you're short on food and in cold climates, but nowadays it's a negative trait when it comes to finding a potential mate. To put it as simple as I can, a mutation is when a DNA gene is changed. This can have both large and small effects. linchpin said: Umm... the fact is that the word "evolution" has several differing meanings. Arguing about one of them being more accurate or better is pointless. Just take a look at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/evolution It only has one meaning when we're talking about biological evolution |
XartaXJun 8, 2013 6:46 AM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
XartaX said: linchpin said: It only has one meaning when we're talking about biological evolutionJust take a look at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/evolution You did not check the link. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Biology a. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species. b. The historical development of a related group of organisms; phylogeny. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary: Biol. a. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift. b. the development of a species or other group of organisms; phylogeny. c. the theory that all existing organisms developed from earlier forms by natural selection; Darwinism. |
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| ^ Uh, no. That dictionary is just worded weirdly (it's referring to related shit). b) isn't per definition "evolution", it's (as it says after the semicolon) a taxonomic group's phylogeny, or it's evolutionary history. c) is referring to the THEORY OF EVOLUTION, not evolution as in the word. I'm assuming ";" here means, "see". As in "See phylogeny". |
XartaXJun 8, 2013 1:44 PM
Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
edl01 said: By the way talk about inconsistent characterisation. At the begining of the series Ledo gunned down dozens of pirates without batting an eye and expresses he doesn't care that he killed them. But the death of one single Hideauze was enough to make him scream out as loud has he could in shock and regret. I mean sure Ledo has developed over his time there, but I don't think he was suddenly completely changed the views drilled into him by society for his entire life in a few days/weeks. and that hideauze is the same one/similar to hideauze shown in video,and he screams because he knows the truth.. |
yakoo said: edl01 said: By the way talk about inconsistent characterisation. At the begining of the series Ledo gunned down dozens of pirates without batting an eye and expresses he doesn't care that he killed them. But the death of one single Hideauze was enough to make him scream out as loud has he could in shock and regret. I mean sure Ledo has developed over his time there, but I don't think he was suddenly completely changed the views drilled into him by society for his entire life in a few days/weeks. and that hideauze is the same one/similar to hideauze shown in video,and he screams because he knows the truth.. There's nothing inconsistent with this though. We spent half the season showcasing Ledo LEARNING the value of human life. . That every human is important. Which nicely builds up to hideauze=humans reveal. |
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Fai said: and that hideauze is the same one/similar to hideauze shown in video,and he screams because he knows the truth.. There's nothing inconsistent with this though. We spent half the season showcasing Ledo LEARNING the value of human life. . That every human is important. Which nicely builds up to hideauze=humans reveal. agreed |
| Well that blew my mind, should be interesting to see where this series goes from here on out! |
| Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Well this is an Urobachi show so mindf*cks all around. Now what will Ledo do? |
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| Let the "healing" commence. Wow. This episode alone held so many answers to my questions. The Hideauze... were in fact formerly humans, who made full use of augmented evolution. No wonder they display a coherent level of organization and intelligence when it comes to fighting against normal humans. The ongoing war in space was the continuation of a world war between the Continental Union, now called the Galactic Alliance; and the Evolvers, who are now the Hideauze. Humanity isn't fighting for survival against monstrous animals or aliens; it's fighting against its hideous other self. The few humans living on giant fleets on Earth must be the unaffiliated neutral minority left behind when the entirety of the Continental Union and the bulk of the Evolvers left the planet. |
| Poor little human alien that gets crushed >< Stupid chamber..... |
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| The last survivor Hideauze .. killed by Chamber! Wtf!!!!!!!! >< |
| When they showed Ledo eliminating the larvae, one of them resembled a fetus and it gave me a very bad feeling about what was to come. Then the truth made me sick to my stomach, brilliant revelation. |
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| This is just sick, I didn't expect anything like this when I first started watching the serie but man, it doesn't disappoint at all o.o I'm very curious what Ledo will do now he knows the real story behind the Hideauze's vs (non evolved) Humans war and I'm even more curious how the anime will end... |
| Okay, I thought it was clash between humans in the first episodes. Then they were squids who were humans anyways. Man, the amount of times when a series, movie, etc have some sort of human race going up against some mysterious creature, they're always human. |
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| Woah! Now that's some real Sci-Fi! Really awesome plot twist! |
Oshii said: Apart from the fact that there were NO HINTS AT ALL leading to it. This is really convoluted story-telling. There were. |
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| Holy crap did not expect this kind of turn. Now we all get reminded that this is a Gen Urobuchi series. I also guess that the reason why the whole earth is covered in water now is because of yet another climate change but this time the other time round: the earth warmed up so all ice melt. |
ObinderuJun 29, 2013 4:24 PM
| oh my plot twist... |
Alone on a Friday night? Remember that DIO did nothing wrong! |
| Wow, I... Did... Not... Expect that! |
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| Woah humans. |
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| Best episode so far. With the whalesquids on Earth I was beginning to suspect something, but definitely not that. Ledo is obviously totally shocked - there's no denying the evidence but it goes against everything he's been told his entire life. When Chamber killed the Hideauze who was still part-human, that was really sad. She may have the been the last one who held onto her humanity. Also, the daughter who was waving goodbye to her father as he went into an experiment really looked a lot like Amy. Really looking forward to seeing where the show goes from here. |
| Wow great episode, is it just me or the girl saying goodbye to her dad in the video looked a lot like Amy |
| Thank you Urobuchi, you never failed to showcase this underrated show's mind-effing plot-twist episode~ Now where are we? Ah, this show now reminds me of Starcraft now >__< ooof! |
| Well I knew he would found something shocking but wouldn't have expected this! It does explain why the Hideauze are always attacking humanity... they're humans in the first place after all... Well some pretty fucked up stuff in this episode but damn was it good! |
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| Great episode....action, revelation, and good storytelling. Sad when the girl Hideauze was killed :( |
MusashiRoseAug 27, 2013 6:53 PM
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| God damn, that's gotta be horrible when he thought this whole time they were simply the enemies of human with nothing more than a primal need to devour intelligent life. And, not even considering the ones in the past, he literally just discovered that he unknowingly murdered thousands of human beings not ten minutes ago. I'm pleasantly surprised, though that the theory of him being sent back in time, and accidentally being the cause of the war seems unlikely now. I'm just glad it wasn't something so predictable. Though, I still don't really understand what was up with that war... the "Evolvers" were performing experiments to try and save the human race, trying to develop humans who could survive in space. Sure they're experiments were unethical, but it seems pointless if they were capable of warp holes. So why would the side who didn't even want to leave randomly try to secretly build a warp to "escape" from the evolvers. One would think that some sort of agreement was available... I mean it looked like everyone involved was completely for it. It seems, like most wars, it just didn't make a whole lot of sense. And I've got a feeling that the girl is Amy herself. Why else would they avoid saying the girl's name? All will be explained in the next 4 episodes, I suppose. Pesti13nce said: Yeah, me and Ledo both. It was the final breaking point for Ledo. It seems like Chamber is after all, just a robot who only obeys his programming. Not that I really thought otherwise.Did anyone else's heart sink a little when chamber did what he did at the end, with the humanoid looking one? MaxCrazy7 said: We should? o.o Sorry I must've been taking a leak the last time we were on the bottom of the food chain, could you fill me in?Look how powerful they have became in space, weak unmodified human doesn't a chance and you all should know what happen when we are not in top of the food chain. Stark700 said: Not anymore.It's nice to see all that Hideauze this episode. There's like a shit a lot of them. Guess humanity has kept a bunch of them locked him for awhile too. |
HalibelTheEspadaSep 11, 2013 1:24 AM
| It was obvious that humans made the Hideauze by genetical manipulation, but I didn't expect them to be actually humans. So even the whalesquids are humans, not just animals... I really wonder now about how many years have passed since the the present, since it really didn't seem like the Hideauze think like humans anymore, they mutated even more. It was probably a few hundred years at least till the they were so advanced to be able to make worm holes. Plus if we want to place the anime in our world then the next ice age will be very far away, and even the cooling/freezing > melting period would be very long. I also wonder how and where did people (the ancestors of the people of Gargantia and everyone else that still lives on Earth) survive the very long ice age. |
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| why does this remind me so much of Saya no Uta well, it is Urobutchi after all. shit really happened this episode, looking forward to more also, only thing I don't get is why Chamber acted on his own in the last scene (killing the female hidea..thingy). Is he already programmed to kill them without Ledo saying anything? usually he is only doing something when Ledo orders him to do so... thought that really seemed off |
Vanessa-Nov 11, 2013 2:28 AM
| The FEELS in this episode. It's really overwhelming especially for Ledo. |
| "Everyone wears their own panties inside their heart" - Kousaku Hata |
AoiMizu said: Don't tell me the Hideauze is actually mutation between human and squid!  Ika Musume, what have you done?!BTW....YEAHHH!!!!! ACTION!!!!! CHAMBER IN ACTION!!!!!!!! 5/5 on a related note, the seiyuu for Amy also voiced Ika :P |
| experiments which leads to new species world war then galatic war humans never learn |
| Wow. What an episode. That was really good. So the Hideuze are the humans who were the Evolvers and the group Ledo is in is the Galtaic Alliance. So the two groups were fighting over which way is the right way to live. Evolve so they can live in space or continue to look for a new home. My heart sank a little when Chamber crushed that little girl Hideuze and blood shot everywhere. This was a amazing episode! What will Ledo do now that he knows the truth? |
| All I can say is holy crap. Can't wait to finish the rest of the anime. |
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| mind=blown wow great fucking episode the twist are real aren't they still the enemies or just the ones that left the planet ???? |
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| I had a feeling the Hideauze were part human... and wow.. the rest of that video was pretty deep too. |
~my list
| Ahhhh this is the twist everyone was warning me about. Yeah, I see why people related this to Shinsekai Yori now. lol |
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