| I'm guessing they could enjoy or appreciate the stories that some series have. But just not like the otaku culture |
 ManWild |
| I watch anime to bully otakus better Also, wtf is an otaku? isn't it the same as a weeb? Anyways, they're also bullied in Japan |
| "Chimp in state of nature never jerks off, but in captivity he does, wat does this mean? In state of nature he’s too busy, to put plainly. He is concerned with mastering space: solving problem of life in and under trees, mastering what tools he can, mastering social relations in the jockeying for power and status. Deprived of this drive to development and self-increase he devolves to pointless masturbation, in captivity, where he senses he is in owned space and therefore the futility of all his efforts and all his actions." |
Rissenicus said: I watch anime to bully otakus better Also, wtf is an otaku? isn't it the same as a weeb? Anyways, they're also bullied in Japan otaku is someone who play games, watching anime, reading manga....ect weeb is simply someone who loves japan's culture bully otakus? someone that their pfp is megumi is last person i want to hear this from |
_hediyoshii_Aug 24, 2021 7:37 PM
| I don’t know why either, but it is quite interesting because it seems like some of them purposely look out for shows that has these themes in them solely to patronize fans of them; I will just be confused if there are still people complaining about how the characters in Mushoku Tensei act once the second season airs since that just means they purposely are continuing a show they disliked, granted maybe that’s just me that thinks it’s weird to watch something that you hate |
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| Animes are getting more popular over time, sometimes rivaling or surpassing Western content, and when something grows it attracts different people with different lines of thought, personalities, goals... It's one of the side effects of popularizing something. The reason for a person who doesn't like anime to consume this content means that they have some individual issue, or some goal linked to some individual issue added to the person's ideals and their desire to see something they identify with, the same thing happens with the Gaming Universe. |
| English is not my main language |
| anime in general is no longer for otaku. it has become shallow advertisement for different products. they're going for mass appeal now, even if it means rewriting the original works. what you're experiencing mirrors this. normies took the bait and now they're unable to understand how a vastly different culture has different values. as much as they're trying to say otherwise, they're extremely intolerant by nature. if every show was made like the ovas in the 90s, we wouldn't have to deal with this trash. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| For the same reason you can criticise Hollywood, its culture, idelogies and followers and still like american movies? You don't even have to be interested in Japanese or otaku culture to like anime in the first place. All the things you said are not even necessarily representatives of said cultures, they are elements that exist and happen within it. You can very much criticise components of a medium and still enjoy that medium. Just because someone has heavy criticisms or harsh views about something doesn't mean they hate that thing or should stop consuming it, sometimes it just means they have a more critical view and thought a lot about it. That's not hard to understand. Anime fans really need to get past this kind of "love it or leave it" behaviour, as if there's only the option to unconditionally love everything about anime or utterly hating it. Not everyone has the same views as you about the things you like. |
Satyr_iconAug 24, 2021 10:07 PM
why waste your time with japanese cartoons when there are only so many Utena-like anime that quenches your thirst for lesbian romances? Had me in the 1st half, not gonna lie.I would say that there are plenty of anime that don't focus on ecchi/fanservice/moé/otaku-centric comedy. Many older fans, especially, were more drawn in by the space/mecha/sci-fi/violence components of the medium, instead of the allure of waifus, wish-fulfillment harems, and all the colors of the ~dere rainbow. And even as those original "gateway genres" have faded in recent years, there's still been no shortage of action, mystery, horror, and psychological titles, as well as "clean" slice-of-life/drama/romance shows. On the one hand, I do find it rather pointless for the "anti-otaku" crowd to rage against anime clearly meant to appeal to otaku tastes -- if the cover image has a bunch of sexy young women and one non-descript guy (or no male at all), that should be enough of a "stay away" flag. But I do understand the frustrations of that crowd when they encounter out-of-place fanservice and obvious otaku-bait elements in otherwise "standard" anime. As we're seeing with the controversy over Netflix's Cowboy Bebop, chances are the show can work if Faye doesn't wear a hyper-revealing outfit all the time. Imo Strike Witches could've worked fine as an action/war anime if the girls wore pants, though some episodes would've had to be reworked. The reception of Fire Force was rather divided, thanks to random and incongruous service scenes. Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is/was lauded as a brilliant sci-fi school comedy, but drew criticism for some scenes with Mikuru featuring jiggle and sexual assault played for laughs. Did Uta~Kata really need all those middle-school-girl pantyshots? No doubt the anti-otaku types have plenty of other examples of fanservice in otherwise respectable anime that I didn't even notice or take issue with. Quoted here, by one of the foremost "old guard" anime fans: "We owe a great deal to maniacs, but we can't make good works if we only pander to them." --Leiji Matsumoto before "otaku" was a common word] |
PiyushSan said: I can completely understand why some people find the extreme types of weebs/otakus dislikable. Even cringing at or disliking certain types of weebs is understandable. But looking down upon every single person apart from themselves that watches anime is kinda dumb. This 100% to me there is a line between a sane anime fan and obsessive weeb creep if anyone cross the line i rather wanna distance myself from them |
| Whatever "otaku culture" is, it's much wider than that. People find their own niches in it, and they are in their own right to dislike other aspects or sections. What do you think of anime fans that complain about modern anime, or those who don't like whatever genre? Are they not part of the otaku culture as well, or they need to enjoy absolutely everything and have positive opinions about everything to be so? Are you not part of the otaku culture because you are vocal against moe? |
| I think it’s ok to critique otaku culture. It’s not beyond reproach. Additionally I don’t think people having issues with some shows means they dislike all anime. |
| Maybe you should quit the anime community if you have such a problem with people discussing it. |
| So this is basically a 'waah! people who like other kinds of anime sometimes don't like the kind I prefer" thread. |
| I dunno, HeroicIdealism, all of that you are telling doesn't in any way negate what I say. They are still fans and they enjoy the shows that cater to their interests, so they are part of the otaku culture, just a section of it you probably don't belong to. That's why I mentioned those other examples, otaku culture is wide and all-encompassing and there's people in it constantly complaining about other sections or ignoring them to focus on their niches. Heck, look at us, we couldn't be more polar opposites both politically and in tastes and dislikes, and it's not like either of us is less otaku than the other. |
| You're asking; "Why do people not dislike all of a medium of which only some works are reproachable?" Can you not figure it out just from that alone? |
| Well I for one already loved Lain. |
| Easy answer: because people who are not otaku watch anime like they would watch a movie, or series, or play a game, I mean, like any other means of entertainment, they all shit on what they don't like. Also, I have a problem with otakus for treating the whole anime as one. snowykevin said: lol, I love mushoku tensei because of his world and because I love fantasy and magic stories, but I hate rudeus and the scenes being a pervert with eris are disgusting and make the show drop points. You must learn that there is something else besides that you like everything about an anime, and that you do not like any of it. everyone likes a certain anime, but that doesn't mean they should like the negative aspects of it.I don’t know why either, but it is quite interesting because it seems like some of them purposely look out for shows that has these themes in them solely to patronize fans of them; I will just be confused if there are still people complaining about how the characters in Mushoku Tensei act once the second season airs since that just means they purposely are continuing a show they disliked, granted maybe that’s just me that thinks it’s weird to watch something that you hate |
Leoradiuju2004Aug 25, 2021 5:57 AM
 a wise user of MAL said: Just to clarify, adaptations should absolutely stand on their own |
HeroicIdealism said: jal90 said: I dunno, HeroicIdealism, all of that you are telling doesn't in any way negate what I say. They are still fans and they enjoy the shows that cater to their interests, so they are part of the otaku culture, just a section of it you probably don't belong to. That's why I mentioned those other examples, otaku culture is wide and all-encompassing and there's people in it constantly complaining about other sections or ignoring them to focus on their niches. Heck, look at us, we couldn't be more polar opposites both politically and in tastes and dislikes, and it's not like either of us is less otaku than the other. Yeah I dunno either, you seem to completely miss the point. There are freakshows on twitter and reddit that use weeb as a common prejoritive (so you like anime but you make fun of people who like anime...), call other anime fans incels, hate on an anime just for having a girl with big boobs, comment "she's 14 years old you creep" on any anime art where a girl is in a bikini, call Cowboy Bebop sexist because Faye Valentine shows off skin, etc. They're not otaku and I don't give af if you say "well it's their opinion", it seems to me like they just hate anime. I mean, read your own posts. You are equally if not more aggressive towards people with different views in the community. And again, that doesn't make you less otaku, or less belonging to otaku culture. I agree some people can be obnoxious and act awful against other fans. I'm in the One Piece fandom lol, I know what that is. But the person who doesn't like Cowboy Bebop because of Faye is in their own right to have an opinion on that show, no matter how wrong it is in my opinion and no matter what their tastes are on other series. You are being more aggressive and intolerant than them by placing them outside of the "otaku culture" just for their tastes in a show and character. So my tl;dr here is basically that just because you are displeased with some opinions about anime and manga doesn't give you the right to kick them out and talk about "otaku culture" as if it was some exclusive club. Opinions are opinions and each one has their own. Being disrespectful towards other fans is far more concerning. |
HeroicIdealism said: Why are you implying that there is only one proper way to watch anime?Why do people that detest otaku culture watch anime in the first place? All the time, I see lefty "anime fans" who crap on anime after anime for being sexist and degrading or objectifying of women, for being rape apologia (Shield Hero, anyone?), "queerbaiting" (whatever that is), "degenerate" for appealing to male sexuality (but they would never dare call anything that appeals to female or gay sexuality degenerate), etc. etc. So many self-proclaimed anime fans who waste their time watching anime seem to actually hate anime and Japanese otaku culture, sometimes going so far as to refer to otaku/weebs as "incels" because they like ecchi and fanservice in anime. To any anime fan who complains about the above things that I mentioned: why waste your time with japanese cartoons when there are only so many Utena-like anime that quenches your thirst for lesbian romances? Why are you implying that people shouldn't have opinions on anime series except in alignment with your ideas of a certain fandom culture? Why do you presume that "otaku culture" only likes certain types of anime? Why do you talk like anime consists only of a majority made up of "ecchi and fanservice" and a small minority made up of lesbian romances? Why do you confuse criticism and hatred? Why do you confuse "Japanese otaku culture" with the culture of a subset of the western anime fandom? In summary, wayyyyy too many broad-brush generalizations on your part. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
HeroicIdealism said: All the time, I see lefty "anime fans" who crap on anime after anime for being sexist and degrading or objectifying of women, for being rape apologia (Shield Hero, anyone?), "queerbaiting" (whatever that is), "degenerate" for appealing to male sexuality (but they would never dare call anything that appeals to female or gay sexuality degenerate), etc. etc. So many self-proclaimed anime fans who waste their time watching anime seem to actually hate anime and Japanese otaku culture, sometimes going so far as to refer to otaku/weebs as "incels" because they like ecchi and fanservice in anime. To any anime fan who complains about the above things that I mentioned: why waste your time with japanese cartoons when there are only so many Utena-like anime that quenches your thirst for lesbian romances? You should just be glad that complaining is all they are doing because it's worse when politicians get involved. There was a U.S. Politician who was actively trying to get Dragon Ball Z and pretty much all anime banned in the United states. Lucky for us independent candidate K.W. Miller who ran for the U.S. House of representatives for Florida's 18th Congressional District lost. Although K.W. Miller was registered as an independent, Miller identified himself as a supporter of the right-wing conspiracy theorists QAnon, which is currently viewed as just a branch following affiliated with Republican Party ideology or the Trump party. What ever you wish to call the GOP these days. But it doesn't stop there because there are other politicians locally as well as nationally who currently hold office who share the same belief that Miller has where they view anime in general as porn and claiming anime sexualizes cartoon characters too far. Most who share this view in public office currently affiliate them selves as conservatives. It's really quick to judge that something is strictly pointing to one political ideological. Because it's across the spectrum in politics. You only need to look at Australia and their current ban on Hentai And Adult Anime Products From Japan. Right, left, or central in every which direction you look you can find someone who feels anime is sexist, degrading, and objectifying of women. GlennMagusHarvey said: In summary, wayyyyy too many broad-brush generalizations on your part. I totally agree this is way too much of a broad-brushed generalization the OP made. |
ColourWheelAug 25, 2021 6:25 AM
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HeroicIdealism said: jal90 said: I mean, read your own posts. You are equally if not more aggressive towards people with different views in the community. And again, that doesn't make you less otaku, or less belonging to otaku culture. I bet you couldn't even define otaku culture if I asked you. I'm referring to what it actually is at this point: anime bitches. That's otaku culture in two words. I am asking those who hate anime girls who are feminine and objectified, why they still watch anime and participate in consooming this industry from a "backwards" country like Japan, when they could be watching Steven Universe and reading Marvel comics instead. I can't believe everyone here is so pretentious to not know what I meant (or I guess I can believe it) when I referred to otaku culture. Go to Comiket and it's all about anime girls, open pixiv and it's 95% anime girls, go on MyFigureCollection and everyone wants anime girl figurines, I could go on. A lot of people don't like how many (not all) anime objectifies girls, and how otaku are into anime girls. They find it creepy. I am hoping these types of people will come to this thread and answer my original question: why watch anime if you hate the female-objectifying nature of it? Or how about I narrow it down: why watch shounen and seinen anime aimed at men if you hate it when Ochako wears a cheerleading outfit that emphasizes her big breasts? It's stuff like this that baffles me to no end. So I made this thread and of course everyone tries to beat around the bush and say "w-well it's their opinion, bro" So basically you define "otaku culture" as your own private club and then ask how is it that some people don't belong to it and they dare call themselves anime fans, or even watch anime at all. Self-awareness, please. Why watch MHA if you hate when Ochako wears a revealing outfit? Like I dunno. For the superpowers, for the characters, for the story, for the action, for the ships? That's a simple question with multiple answers. Don't worry, if Ochako wearing a cheerleading outfit was everything MHA is about and stands for, they would just not watch it. And yes, it's their opinion. Bro. |
jal90 said: Yeah. This.Why watch MHA if you hate when Ochako wears a revealing outfit? Like I dunno. For the superpowers, for the characters, for the story, for the action, for the ships? That's a simple question with multiple answers. Don't worry, if Ochako wearing a cheerleading outfit was everything MHA is about and stands for, they would just not watch it. And yes, it's their opinion. Bro. I mean, I don't know how MHA works specifically, but it's very common and entirely normal to have different opinions on different aspects of a given work. You can like the carrots but think the rice is undercooked. You can like the ending of a game but think the early-game is too tedious. And you can like the action in an anime series even without being a fan of the character designs. And so on. (And other people can have the opposite opinions in these regards too.) These are complex things with many components in them. Life's like that. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| So you're saying that all anime is degenerate fanservice bait? |
 |
| Man im so tired of the "you can criticise something you enjoy" to justify being an asshole who wants to change a culture to fit their criteria... That's not what being critic means you just think you know better than others. |
| Because not all anime is degenerate fanservice bait designed to a make profit out of miserable basement dwelling incels. |
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
jal90 said: Whatever "otaku culture" is, it's much wider than that. People find their own niches in it, and they are in their own right to dislike other aspects or sections. What do you think of anime fans that complain about modern anime, or those who don't like whatever genre? Are they not part of the otaku culture as well, or they need to enjoy absolutely everything and have positive opinions about everything to be so? Are you not part of the otaku culture because you are vocal against moe? If the Otaku culture is wider than that, why do you need to bitch about it 24/7 instead of you know... watch other things? It's like smoking cigarettes and getting angry cuz you will get cancer. You know what you are getting into man, that's not a criticism. |
Animaniaig said: Because not all anime panders to the overall mistake that is otaku culture and basement dwelling incels with degenerate fanservice bait. wow you are probably a chad aint you? |
KingCanute said: jal90 said: Whatever "otaku culture" is, it's much wider than that. People find their own niches in it, and they are in their own right to dislike other aspects or sections. What do you think of anime fans that complain about modern anime, or those who don't like whatever genre? Are they not part of the otaku culture as well, or they need to enjoy absolutely everything and have positive opinions about everything to be so? Are you not part of the otaku culture because you are vocal against moe? If the Otaku culture is wider than that, why do you need to bitch about it 24/7 instead of you know... watch other things? It's like smoking cigarettes and getting angry cuz you will get cancer. You know what you are getting into man, that's not a criticism. Well, you are answering this in a thread that is bitching about other fans and their tastes, and that doesn't even take into account that you can dislike a single element of an anime you overall like and that doesn't make it incompatible with enjoying the show. As for your example and while there are obnoxious haters out there who are dedicated to display negativity 24/7 (and it's not exclusive to the examples and types OP mentioned), most of the time it's occasional complaints that are blown way out of proportion by overprotective fans. Many people in the community overreact and love drama and they show every time. |
| I love some the stories that come out of anime and the creativity animation allows. I just think the fandom is disgusting and elements of otaku culture, especially the parts that western audiences focus on, is gross. |
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jal90 said: Well, you are answering this in a thread that is bitching about other fans and their tastes, and that doesn't even take into account that you can dislike a single element of an anime you overall like and that doesn't make it incompatible with enjoying the show. As for your example and while there are obnoxious haters out there who are dedicated to display negativity 24/7 (and it's not exclusive to the examples and types OP mentioned), most of the time it's occasional complaints that are blown way out of proportion by overprotective fans. Many people in the community overreact and love drama and they show every time. That element you say is innately within the otaku culture, I think it's legit to protest when you only see assholes trying to change something they don't like. As I said, that's not what being critical means so stop using it per convenience |
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