| Depends I think people can be over analytical on stuff but if you are a fan of the manga or a book series for instance there is a reason to expect it to be mostly faithful to the original work. The reason source material are used for adaptions is because the work itself was good and they want to see it in a new medium. If you make too many changes or cuts you can lose the magic of what actually made it worth adapting. Now of course changes can add to the spirt of the original work but I think you got to be careful there because I think more often than naught you have more cases of where that hurt an adaption than benefit it. Also AOT actually didn't faithfully adapt it entirely Uprising saw cuts that in my opinion were bad for S3 Part 1 despite being mostly okay with the adaption that said I think in terms of adaption S3 Part 1 was the worst part of the AOT anime adaption. There are lines of dialogue cut elsewhere I think it's a very good adaption but it's not entirely one to one. |
| I fit that description. I don't care about smooth animation. That's their problem. Even if I complained as a consumer of that type of media, my voice won't be heard. Or rather, it would be ignored on purpose. Money talks big unfortunately in this era of materialism we live in. The story, the subtexts, the symbolism all can be adapted into other type of media. The quality is second to industries. They want money in order to increase quality of their products. The higher the budget, the good the anime and vice-versa. That's how it works. Our views as consumers whether this is good or bad means nothing to creators if you don't pay them to give you what you want. |
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| Adaptation is translating story from one medium into another. An adaptation can rearrange the story to fit the new medium but it should not forgo the core story that it is adapted from. |
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
| I think they're stupid. Either they don't understand that an adaptation isn't the source material itself and that they won't be able to cram some irrelevant line here or there, they try to bring up the source to move the conversation to an area they can easily dominate due to unfamiliarity to deflect criticism, or both. Obnoxious. Usually not framing their arguments around why they found the source better but using it in ways like that for whatever reason. And if they just did the former, doubt anybody would call them a source purist. |
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| I get that they get pissy if the story that they knew and like is changed, it's like their favorite characters suddenly stops becoming their usual self because of plot? I cannot vote since I do not read source material in first place. But I do believe that source material is canon, therefore I did not finish watching sakurasou. |
| Well yeah it's all advertisement, so is it a product of it's own? Are you supposed to go read the manga afterwards? A way smaller population of the anime community actually reads manga so I think that's why people try to make others get interested into manga. Though it seems to piss people off instead lol. |
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NeoAnkara said: Adaptation is translating story from one medium into another. An adaptation can rearrange the story to fit the new medium but it should not forgo the core story that it is adapted from. Couldn’t have said it better. There are things that anime can do and manga can’t, and then there’s things manga can do but anime can’t. Also depends on the story, but an adaptation does NOT have to be the exact same, I like it when they mix it up a bit but still tell the same story, just in a different way Good example is trigun, which Mixes up (and leaves out sadly, but that’s because the rest wasn’t written yet when the anime came out) stuff from the manga, but still tells the same powerful story |
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NeoAnkara said: Adaptation is translating story from one medium into another. An adaptation can rearrange the story to fit the new medium but it should not forgo the core story that it is adapted from. It's simple as this. I'm pretty happy when I see some positive changes (like filling in the plot holes or adding some cool foreshadowing (jojo part 4)) in adaptation, but don't go around changing the plot for no reason whatsoever (ending of season 1 of Ao no Exorcist for example, A-1 picture what the hell were you thinking?). |
| They are obnoxious. Basically just there to demolish the anime adaptation thinking the anime is completely shit compared to their beloved manga. Yeah I don't like them. I've seen this guy in another thread: dns_patrick415 said: Hahahaha I read the past comments saying Iroha is a Thot, and all of you are doubting her.... Read the manga before you start this kind of topic. You will understand the circumstances she got into. Dont just watch the anime, go read the manga aswell, apply it to every anime you watch so you wont skip some interesting parts that might not be shown on the anime "Go read the manga" Said he after a thread created upon the first or second episode of an anime. Recommending to always read the manga instead of watching the anime. What should even be the point of watching anime if we're there? Manga purists never help. |
| Nothing wrong with bringing it up they are the same stories after all. If something was left out but the anime follows the rest faithfully how is it irrelevant to explain what happened in the source. For example Welcome to the NHK anime leaves out any drug abuse but the MC clearly still suffers from same sort of psychological effects. If you don't care then don't, it's just a fact explaining why he is that way in the story. Obviously there's no point in debating anime onlys why the adaptation sucks, usually it's fans of the source debating about that. As should be. And ''GO CONSUME THE SOURCE'' people are annoying. |
KaasfondueJun 9, 2020 2:15 PM
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| Some of them are annoying as heck |
Korishi said: not necessarily. skill, time, workload affects it more than one would think. example: Shingo Natsume simply did the most with what little he had, and One Punch Man turned out phenomenal looking even though the budget was very average. That is intriguing. I was sure that good animation would cost a lot of money. I forgot the conditions of work places too and relationships with business.  |
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| Yes and no. The thing is that it's very difficult to faithfully adapt a manga. The closest that I can think of from what I've watched is definitely Demon Slayer, which I found to be almost 1:1 to the manga, with some new scenes added in few episodes. Because of this, I switched from reading the manga after 20 or so chapters to just watching the anime. Detective Conan is another anime that I find to be done exceptionally well even when it adds a good chunk of anime-original content to canon episodes. To create an acceptable watching experience, liberties no matter what will always be taken. Why's that? Adapting a manga literally panel-from-panel is futile. If it were this way in anime, a good amount of cuts would seem especially jarring. If you're adapting an anime, we often need to add new scenes that elaborate on the context of things, such as how a character go to a place, or perhaps how an object or scenario is formed. Often, popular anime such as My Hero Academia will adapt a single chapter, especially for an episode that takes place as an aftermath of events, to elaborate on what the other characters are doing afterwards, or add new action scenes. Not always is it done well, but it is done to elaborate further on a huge variety of subjects nonetheless. Adapting a single chapter or less is also not necessarily a bad thing and does not necessarily mean bad pacing, just as adapting 3+ chapters an episode is not necessarily a good thing and means good pacing. Slower does not always equal bad, faster does not always equal good. For example, while One Piece has gradually been adapting less and less chapters an episode since it started (from an average of 3-4 chapters, to 2-3, to 1-2, to 1-1.5, to a chapter or less, to now being always less than a full chapter), and yes most of the time it's pretty awful, it is necessary to do this sometimes to keep the emotion of certain scenes (you-know-who's episode towards the end of Marineford is less than a chapter yet is paced beautifully), or keep the pacing stable in a certain set of chapters. The flashbacks in Post-Marineford Arc are all less than a chapter, but are incredibly faithful to the original manga with adding little-to-no fillers/anime-original expansions, because of how wordy the chapters are and just how much happens. I digress, because most of the time the pacing is still ass, even in Wano Kuni Saga. There are so many things that come into factor when adapting a manga and you can only change so much before it becomes an entirely different experience. Even the smallest things can change the experience. In my opinion, the anime for The Promised Neverland is nowhere as good as the manga, because... it erases every single bit of internal dialogue that made the experience for me exciting or interesting. It's like adapting The Catcher in the Rye and removing all of Holden Caulfield's internal dialogue. Due to this, the anime very blatantly becomes much less of a psychological horror. Now... I'm definitely not going to talk about light novels or visual novels being adapted to anime. Light novels can be done well but require a substantial amount of episodes. High School DxD is a really good and faithful adaptation of the light novels. Visual novel anime can also be done well, but are most of the time absolutely fucking awful because they're constricted to 13 episodes. To illustrate the point in that... It's like taking Detective Conan's first 150-200 chapters and stuffing it into 13 episodes. TL;DR being faithful isn't always good but not always bad, it can benefit from being entirely faithful or taking liberties. Certain manga, when adapted to anime become totally different when you take either too much liberties or take certain things out of the equation. One Piece anime sometimes good when slow. TPN anime bad. TPN manga good. (and, no. knowing what's going to happen doesn't necessarily make it less enjoyable. This is entirely up to one's personal preference. I can see something once and be excited the second time over.) |
ChartTopper60Jun 9, 2020 2:51 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
ArabianLuffy said: Korishi said: not necessarily. skill, time, workload affects it more than one would think. example: Shingo Natsume simply did the most with what little he had, and One Punch Man turned out phenomenal looking even though the budget was very average. That is intriguing. I was sure that good animation would cost a lot of money. I forgot the conditions of work places too and relationships with business. yep, very interesting stuff. now, what defines 'good' animation is another thing. P.S. links in my profile ;) |
Korishi said: yep, very interesting stuff. now, what defines 'good' animation is another thing. P.S. links in my profile ;) The YouTube link of your favorite animators, huh? Got it. I think one of those days to do deep research on animators. |
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| Some manga take advantage of the fact they are manga. An adaptations job is to take these aspects and present to a different audience |
 _______I like rocks__  |
deg said: to me this source material purists do not complain much about animation quality but rather they complain how faithful the anime adaptation is to the source material and i think that is not good mindset considering you rather should just consume the source material anyway and people tend to forget that anime adaptations usually are just long advertisement of the source material but few hits like Attack on Titan do adapt the source material fully though so thoughts? and are you a source material purist? i voted no EDIT: might as well note that some studios do not follow the source material at all like Gonzo and KyoAni Dependent on how they do it. For example, Kaguya-sama anime had some anime-original scene but it is very well made and doesn't ruin the originality of the chapter. An anime-original scene or episode that fleshes out a character or event is great. An anime-original scene or episode that changes the entire story is not great. |
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Korishi said: I meant the link "what is BAD animation". add it to your watch later if you wish; it's basics everyone should familiarise themselves with. Oh! I see. Well, the topic video is interesting enough. I'm watching/listening to it now. And watching once isn't enough for me. I need to watch it more to understand the case. Thanks for sharing. |
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Korishi said: stop with the stereotypes.. sometimes I'm like this, sometimes not. Well said. In regards to the issue I would like strict following of the source material but since that never happens as faithful as possible is alright. But I don't think its the media's fault that they don't strictly follow the source material... |
| Unless that its a really bad adaptation like Tokyo Ghoul, I can't stand them when they spoil everything and complain. |
| BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. ๆฅๆฌ |
| I can see both sides tbh especially with more plot driven stories, butchering the adaptation can really impact the story. ReLIFE's final OVA was super painful to watch because not only did they condense like half the manga into a measely 4 eps, they also completely cut out the fukin best arc of the entire series. though I can also understand how annoying it can be seeing people just mostly complain about the adaptation and not the actual contents cough Tower of God cough |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| i don't mind alternations to source material as long as it doesn't affect quality of the plot |
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| Many of those who complain about an anime isn't being faithful are people who consume the source material in the first place; and disliking how the adaptation changed is reasonable considering they may try the anime in the first place because they like the source material and want to see it in animated form. Small changes are fine and they probably make the anime more enjoyable, but if the anime adaptation has a major different with the source material then why don't they make an original anime instead?. On the other hand, I don't understand if there's someone who complain about the anime isn't faithful when he doesn't even consume the source material in the first place. Bringing 'read the source material' into discussion to counter criticism is something silly though. 'Read the source material' should only only be just a matter of recommendation. 'Yeah, I know this anime is bad and its character don't make sense. The manga is better, you may want to check it out. Well, if you are fine with manga'. |
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| If you consume the source material first you might understand..: I used to get really annoyed but yeah playing VNs and reading more manga, I think I get it now. I don’t demand frame by frame adaptations but sometimes... an adaptation not being great can make people dismissive of the source. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
| I think we all should care about whether a studio adapts its source material faithfully or not, though I wouldn't call myself a 'purist'. The closer the better, but as long as they don't reorganize the plot line or go off away from the material, and by adding the necessary anime-only content that'll fit the TV version nicely, then I have no qualms. The best example I can think of 'adaptation gone wrong' is DxD Born (S3) where the studio completely removed the final fight between Issei's group and Loki, which is the best part of volume 9 (if I remember correctly) of the light novels. The author and the fans were rightly pissed off and furious and Studio Passione took over for DxD Hero, where they made an episode 0 just to add in the missing fight. An example of the studio being allowed to do its own thing is Gintama, where the voice actors gave more freedom and creativity for the producers to add jokes and references, whilst staying somewhat close to the manga's arcs and their story line. |
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An0nim said: Many of those who complain about an anime isn't being faithful are people who consume the source material in the first place. And a few of those people will complain about how a trailer 'contains massive spoilers,' which is only because they've read the source material before it was adapted, whereas many anime-only people will be left in wonder and anticipation. |
| MAL EMOJIS - Get your specially formatted emojis for MAL forums. |
| by all means I am. director's vision produces garbage akin to index s3 and sadness of the shield hero. anime studios are perfectly capable of making original anime. either adapt something faithfully because you want to, or make your own stuff. I will be happy with either. making something halfassed, changing the story until it turns into a paradox or a parody of itself isn't good for anyone. |
| ้ฆฌ้นฟใใๅซ็ใๅ จ้จใฌใฉใฏใฟใง |
| I'm totally good with changes in anime as long as the studio doesnt screw up the story and plot. Just be good or be faithful, that's what I want *has vietnam flashback of Arifureta eps 1* |
 (ใฃโโกโ)ใฃ ๐ ๐๐ฒ๐ผ๐ฑ ๐๐ธ๐พ ๐ช๐ต๐ต ๐ฑ๐ช๐ฟ๐ฎ ๐ช ๐๐ธ๐ท๐ญ๐ฎ๐ป๐ฏ๐พ๐ต ๐ญ๐ช๐ ♥ |
| It's impossible to generalize. Purists are right in many many cases. I know for fact that Mahou Sensei Negima (except some of the OVAs which are good) and UQ Holder have partial and mediocre adaptations. On the other hand Detective Conan is doing a decent job. Also I have the impression that Kino no Tabi (2003) has improved upon the source, because people said that Kino no Tabi (2017) was closer to the books and liked it less. Thus you can have good things going by the numbers or going in more creative direction. |
alshuJun 10, 2020 7:00 AM
deg said: to me this source material purists do not complain much about animation quality but rather they complain how faithful the anime adaptation is to the source material and i think that is not good mindset considering you rather should just consume the source material anyway and people tend to forget that anime adaptations usually are just long advertisement of the source material but few hits like Attack on Titan do adapt the source material fully though so thoughts? and are you a source material purist? i voted no EDIT: might as well note that some studios do not follow the source material at all like Gonzo and KyoAni No I am not a material source purist. Many regular TV shows, movies and cartoons based on comics and books are not faithful to their source materials. So why would anime be any different. I know being a Marvel Comics when I was a teenager I was extremely happy when Moves and TV shows based on Marvel Comics characters came out and those movies and shows are not hundred percent faithful the source material .Of course Marvel Comics and even DC comic book characters can be anywhere from a few decades old to several decades old. For example the Superman and batman comics read today are not the same ones their grandparents and and great grandparents read. |
| I believe they do raise a good point at times and sometimes the few minor changes that the adaptation makes do create some discrepancies later on in the story. And in all truth the industry already has its fair share of butchered adaptations for fans to start acting up. Honestly the only type of manga purists I've a problem with are those who ignore anime onlys opinions for just being that. |
deg said: lol i found out earlier that i already made a similar thread in the past https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1414019 but its lik 4-5 years already since then so no worries there @ezikialrage i agree with that one a lot of hollywood movies are like that i learned that they only follow the basic and major plot points of the source material This looks like the exact same thread lol. Maybe this is a sign you post too much. |
TolkienFan365 said: Depends I think people can be over analytical on stuff but if you are a fan of the manga or a book series for instance there is a reason to expect it to be mostly faithful to the original work. The reason source material are used for adaptions is because the work itself was good and they want to see it in a new medium. If you make too many changes or cuts you can lose the magic of what actually made it worth adapting. Now of course changes can add to the spirt of the original work but I think you got to be careful there because I think more often than naught you have more cases of where that hurt an adaption than benefit it. Also AOT actually didn't faithfully adapt it entirely Uprising saw cuts that in my opinion were bad for S3 Part 1 despite being mostly okay with the adaption that said I think in terms of adaption S3 Part 1 was the worst part of the AOT anime adaption. There are lines of dialogue cut elsewhere I think it's a very good adaption but it's not entirely one to one. No there is no reason for it to be faithful just becaue you are a fan. The anime can be its own work of art and have magic qualities that the manga can not convey. Especially with sound. F being careful or having good reason. Consuming and analyzing anime in such a stoic way is just dull. The manga purists do not guide the creative process no matter how much they whine. Too bad they want to see it in a new medium they should have an open mind. |
| Well, I don’t really blame them as long as it’s not something petty. For example, there is a character in Fate/Zero who we barely learn anything about during the show, but in the novel is very fleshed out and given a proper backstory which made their actions in the story make a lot more sense. If someone were to complain about it, then yea, couldn’t really fault them for that lol. |
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_cjessop19_ said: An0nim said: Many of those who complain about an anime isn't being faithful are people who consume the source material in the first place. And a few of those people will complain about how a trailer 'contains massive spoilers,' which is only because they've read the source material before it was adapted, whereas many anime-only people will be left in wonder and anticipation. I could never understand that way of thinking If I already read the source material, then I would be fine with how massive the spoiler is in a two-minute video. After all, I already knew what would happen. |
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| Some of them over exaggerate because they consider themselves the first fans and comment all they long, like those parasyte fans that bashed the anime for not having the same character designs and adding the electro music which in their minds was not working with the story. They also hated that the mc was kinda different in the anime, he wad more of a regular guy whereas in the manga he was more tough and confident, and his relationship with murano was clearly established where in the anime it was complicated. But who cares, it worked in the anime, it was good overall, an excelent watch. Some times they are right though, the manga was adapted because of the fans' interest and if the studio does some major but I mean really major changes that have no logic, I think the purists should be pissed. Not talking about endings, those are different and it's not bad to give an original one when you know there won't be any other season. Soul Eater anime ending was ok, truly on par with the manga. |
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| Generally I'm fine if there adaptation strays from the source material, but I think for that to work it still has to retain the feel or the source material (or if you're The Shining, just be really really good). Like, for instance, School Live definitely strays from the source material (for instance, the most apparent thing is that it switches around some events), but I think it actually works better in the anime than the manga (bit more shock value, I guess). K-On also apparently added on a lot during the adaptation, and that's a classic. |
| I'm against purism here. A good adaption knows when to cut out stuff and when to adapt longer or even add stuff. To convey the "feeling" and the plot/characters you can't just keep the same pacing trying to copy 1:1 the source into an anime. People not knowing the source might get bored if boring stuff is adapted too slow. They might not understand stuff if at other parts it is too fast. The best adaptions I think are known for having a different chapter count adapted per episode. There you know the one responsible had really thougt about it instead of dividing the total chapters to adapt by the number of episodes the anime gets ... and then stupidly forcing the same amount of chapters into each episode without further thinking about it. |
| I dislike immensely the fact that they seem to either be physically unable or deliberately refuse to understand that how closely an anime follows the manga or visual novel does not equate to how good an anime actually is as its own entity. I couldn't care less how closely an anime does or doesn't follow the manga, VN, novel/light novel, video game, etc. Even outside the anime medium, 99% of vocal fans have never been pleased with 99% of adapations of anything ever out there, because the source is their first exposure to the material, they come to love and familiarize themselves with it that way and construct an elaborate relationship and world inside their head with it that way, and then nothing translated to screen can ever satisfy or live up to that. If I read a book or comic/manga first too, I also probably would never be happy with the version adapted to screen by comparison to the rich internal world fleshed out with every nuance and detail in my head. But it's entirely blind and unreasonable to expect this to be a standard other people adhere to or care about if they're only in it to watch the anime. I often hear comments along the lines of "But you shouldn't watch or can skip that part because it wasn't in the manga" or "The anime is crap, because A, B, and C were skipped/rushed and the context changed from the manga") and think "So?" That doesn't make it bad - or good. It just makes it different. And those people who are watching it as an anime are doing so because they want to experience the story in that medium. If the way the story manifested in both mediums was going to be so identical, there wouldn't be a point to adapting and converting it across mediums in the first place. Me personally, I've spent copious amounts of time watching fictional content in anime, cartoons, live action films and television, so when I read something, it's basically exclusively non-fiction as I'm a history otaku and read a lot of content related to that. I would rather watch a 3 hour film or a 26 episode anime than take three weeks to read a novel. So I really don't find myself caring how something in anime form differs from its source material as anything more than a point of conversation or passing curiosity - that certainly doesn't dictate or speak to its quality or lack thereof whatsoever and the arrogance and insistence of some manga or VN readers that it somehow does is often very obnoxious. If I'm watching the anime, I just want to watch and experience the anime as a standalone entity and see it allowed to tell whatever story it wanted to tell. If I cared that much about how it did or didn't differ from the source material, then I would be reading said material in the first place like all the people complaining. |
WatchTillTandavaJun 13, 2020 4:22 PM
| Mostly no. There are few shows I slightly dislike a bit for leaving stuff out. One is Kengan Ashura. I love Kengan Ashura manga and like the anime. But the anime has skipped some content, changed some stuff up and has removed relevant characters that are important later on. Like Medicine man was completely removed and so was the fact that he saved hassad. These 2 become relevant later on but they were removed. Then Kushida Rin also got removed who also hold importance to the story and is often seen. He also appears in Omega. |
| Go check out my latest review: https://myanimelist.net/profile/YeeYeeAss/reviews |
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