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| These last two episodes have been pretty confusing. I really wanna know what angle Anty and especially her bro, are playing. |
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| Phew my head hurts. But still what an episode. I too will have to rewatch this at some point after that cliffhanger (what a twist!) but I thought this arc was a lot better than the pretty impressive first one and I'm beyond excited for the next one. Yeah once again, I don't really get how Anthy I guess implanted herself as Mikage's memory of the dead boy. But I kind of am starting to understand Akio's deal he definitely is starting to seem like bad news. I liked the conclusion emotionally to Mikage's story though. He seemed like an arch villain with everything figured out, and a big plan to back it up to boot. But in the end he was just a big old crazy who couldn't escape or move on from his past. And he was just a puppet to Akio to top it off. I also loved his Black Rose world crumbling around him. First his extremely eerie confession scene after Utena realizes his bag and challenges him to a duel. And then Akio's parting words to him, particularly the holy shit delivery of "Your path has NOT been laid out for you" definitely paid off what was already some pretty effective repetition throughout the arc marvelously. I'm really curious and expect big answers as I enter the last third of the show as to what exactly Anthy is and more importantly to me if she actually has any feelings for Utena. I'm sure Akio will factor heavily into the show's endgame. Oh yeah final note, I love Wakaba and I ADORED her brief scene with Utena here. I think they're friendship is so cute, and I was kind of worried since we hadn't seen her since her spotlight episode might have been the end of it. I also liked how it's part of what got Utena so fired up against Mikage. Also the puppet scene (I don't know what else to call those little interludes) right after it was one of the best. |
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willag said: HOLY SHIT. IT MAKES SENSE. The reason Mamiya (the little brother) didn't look like his sister, Tokiko, in the flashbacks was because we were seeing things through Mikage's delusions and desire to "gain eternity" by staying in the past. Himemiya was sent by Akio to parade as Mamiya and Mikage projected Mamiya's image onto her, which is why Mamiya had brown skin, purple hair, and the red dot on his forehead up until the end when the truth was revealed that Mikage was deluding himself all along. HOLY SHIT! In reality, Mamiya looked like his sister all along. He was white and had freckles (as seen in the photos after the final battle with Utena). Also, the reason Himemiya was tired all of the time is because she was pretending to be Mamiya. If I didn't think she was pulling strings behind the scenes before, I know now! Mikage deluded himself into thinking that Mamiya set the fire, when really he was the one that did! I thought that it suddenly seemed out of character for Mamiya to want eternity. Mamiya must have died in the fire with the 100 Duelists. The building was never repaired either. Mikage deluded himself there as well. And I thought it was funny that his secretary looked a lot like Tokiko. Obviously, she was a delusion as well, and he used the image of the women he loved as her. Revolutionary Girl Utena is series about growing up. People who stay at the school never grow up and can stay within their delusions and memories, avoiding reality and consequences altogether. I'm fucking loving this series. Excellent observations. But did those duels actually take place or were they all in Mikage's head too? And I like the point about RGU being about growing up. That's how you start the revolution, but casting off youth and becoming an adult. |
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| Directed by M Night Shyamalan. |
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| Kinda destroys the sense of progression made during the arc if their going to make everyone just forget about. Its a shame too considering how Mikage will just be forgotten despite him being a very interesting character. |
| This was really confusing. What? Are they suggesting that Utena is Tokio and Anthy is Mamiya? Or... something? Anyway, I loved that little scene in the beginning with Anthy holding Utena's hand. Edit: read some other posts. I'm less confused, but... was this arc even real? Edit 2: I just thought of something. Since Utena and Mikage are probably meant to be parallels, or something, does that mean that her memories of the prince are fake? Holy shit |
KamidoxDec 4, 2016 9:07 AM
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| holy fuck, this is probably one of the best episodes I've ever seen in any anime ikuhara is just inhuman |
| Holy shit!!! I am really enjoying this anime. I pretty sure I'll rate it at least an 8 (unless something catastrophic happens, like "THIS IS ALL JUST UTENA'S ALLUCINATION IN PURGATORY AFTER SHE KILLED HERSELF AFTER HER PARENTS' DEATH" or something close) |
| xD Nuuu they skipped the apocalypse scene.. Oh damn, this dude was like a schizophrenic...so Mamiya never really existed during the black rose duel...huh..He kind of reminds me of Dios, the guy up in the castle. Ironic also that he wanted to kill Anthy and replace her with Mamiya when it was her all along..."You thought it was Mamiya, but it was me, Anthy! Buahahaha!" (Wish I could say Dios instead lel) I also find it interesting how all of the Black Rose Duelists were girls besides Mikage and the Onion Head (who wasn't a duelist at all). And all 100 were boys. Kinda confused though..so those bodies burned, but they have to be burned again after the battle like wut? Kind of wondered how the duelists died before the fire. I saw coffins and stuff that people were pushing on a cart. Or maybe they were just preparing that room? And damn, I think it makes sense why the Black Rose bunch came out of nowhere and just suddenly disappeared. Sad. Haha I keep adding to this post...anyways love the symbolism with the butterfly to the leaf on the elevator. Makes sense if we're thinking about going back in time to the past where are memories were born. |
MistyBlueMay 27, 2017 12:16 AM
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| No wonder Mamiya seemed so feminine despite being a guy. It was Anthy. I believe everything we saw in this arc actually happened-- that either Dios's or Akio's power enabled Mikage's delusions to become reality. However, like the Black Rose duelists forgetting that they dueled, Mikage's delusions and the memory of him passed with his disappearance. As for "why", that's a little more vague. Personally, I don't believe it was ever expected that any of the Black Rose duelists nor Mikage himself would be able to defeat Utena. Utena completely outclassed every Black Rose duelist that faced her. I believe if Akio or Anthy suspected that Utena would lose they wouldn't have done what they did, or Anthy would have been killed. The only reason for this that currently makes to me, then, is that this was to make Utena stronger as a duelist and cause her to release more of the seal on the Power of Dios. I don't really think the whole Anthy = Dios idea is plausible at the moment even though she contains some of his power. Swords being pulled out of people other than Anthy seems to discredit the idea of the sword representing the "manly essence" of the prince imo. Plus, Dios has been shown in conversation with Akio multiple times, and the only delusions in the arc were those produced by Mikage. In a Mikage-free context we can probably assume those conversations are real. Now, I do think Mikage analoging Utena has credit as possibility even if there's not much to say whether it's true or not. If it is true, it's also possible that Utena herself is creating delusions that we have seen throughout the entire series under the assumption that it is reality. Interesting developments, regardless. |
| Yup, I have no idea what's happening at all. |
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| Utena screaming "You son of a bitch!" (at least in the English dub) at Mikage and slapping him was so badass and amazing I had to replay it twice before continuing on in the episode, especially since there's been no profanity at all in the series up until this point. Wait, so...what in the hell? Did the Black Rose arc never happen now? Was this whole thing just an elaborate setup for Akio's character? |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| Damn, that changes everything. The Black Rose Saga just got a lot better. Not as good as the Student Council Saga by just a bit, but fuck, that ending was crazy. |
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| HOLY SHHEPS. This was absolutely mind blowing, seriously. didn't see that coming, i always thought anthy and mamiya looked similar and yes, it is shown previously how Akio was manipulating Mikage but still, that EVERYTHING was just delusion is what i didn't expect. Nice!!! |
 SEIZON SENRYAKU: Hungry 100% of the time.Vzla-IT |
| ... I get it Idontgetit Yeah, what can I say? Hopefully the next couple of episodes will answer my questions. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| Anthy became Mamiya because it was useful to Akio Mamiya doesn't exist, he's an invention of Nemuro because of his regrets about Tokiko Nemuro lives forever because he doesn't move past the death of Mamiya...who never existed in the first place Nemuro never existed in the first place either ...profit? |
| Things somehow are getting more confusing but also they start to make more sense, both at the same time. Excellent ending! |
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| Man, I am really glad I decided to pick this series back up again. |
linkjokerMar 10, 2019 8:23 PM
| Wow, that was a gorgeous episode. I loved the whole Black Rose arc, too. It raised some questions, answered them, and raised more in the end (mostly about the nature of Anthy and whether she's even real or not) Mikage replaced Utena and Anthy with Mamiya and Tokiko from his memories. Should we really search for similarities there? The whole conclusion is so ironic. Mikage was thought to be a puppeteer by the audience, but it was him who was manipulated all along. It's even reflected in the lyrics of the song during the duel. |
St0rmbladeMay 23, 2019 2:08 PM
| I was so confused i had to rewatch ep 22-23... ;-; I wonder why Akio is doing all this. Oh and i guess when a student leaves the Academy he/she is erased from everyone's memory (except for Akio). I'm really curious how Utena got into the Academy as well. |
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| That was the most confusing shit ever! Did Nemuro burn that house or was it Mamiya? Is Mamiya even alive or dead? Is Mamiya Himemiya or what? Does anything even exist in this story? Did the duel between Utena and Nemuro really happen, or it was just an illusion? I'm fucked up confused, but I hope I will grasp it on the upcoming episodes! But I'm loving the mystery around the anime so far. |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
| I’m really loving this series but I have to say, without these comments and explanations I would be completely lost as to what’s going on. So thanks to those people who explained this episode. I’m still a bit lost but in a good way at least. I enjoyed the Black Rose saga and I didn’t really mind the repetitive nature of the duels because each of them helped develop another more secondary character at the school. |
  🔥 🔥 🔥 . 阿良々木 暦, 傷 物 語 . 🔥 🔥 🔥 Build a man a fire and you'll warm him for a night but set a man on fire and you'll warm him for the rest of his life... - H E N D Y - |
| Mikage's tragedy. I feel sorry for him. |
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| Wow! What an episode! The twist reminds me of Evangelion for some reason. I never knew Souji had a past like that. So the reason why Souji never aged, because he never left the garden. When he was "expelled" from Ohtori Academy for losing the duel. He basically "aged" up which probably killed him and will never see him again. Reason why Anthy disguised(probably by Akio) to become Mamiya is to trick Souji into continuing the research. There is no "Mamiya" Was weird to see her brother having dark skin while Tokiko has clear one. Also, I didn't realize why Anthy was complaining about being tired. It makes sense of her disguising as Mamiya. They probably even gave her a different voice so that people wouldn't make the connection right away. Good stuff!! This is what I love :) |
| my brain is imploding currently its 3:12am i dont know if i cant handle this |
| Holy my bRAIN I think it's pretty interesting how the black and white pictures on the wall are pictures of real people, but once they're zoomed in, it's images from the anime. |
willag said: HOLY SHIT. IT MAKES SENSE. The reason Mamiya (the little brother) didn't look like his sister, Tokiko, in the flashbacks was because we were seeing things through Mikage's delusions and desire to "gain eternity" by staying in the past. Himemiya was sent by Akio to parade as Mamiya and Mikage projected Mamiya's image onto her, which is why Mamiya had brown skin, purple hair, and the red dot on his forehead up until the end when the truth was revealed that Mikage was deluding himself all along. HOLY SHIT! In reality, Mamiya looked like his sister all along. He was white and had freckles (as seen in the photos after the final battle with Utena). Also, the reason Himemiya was tired all of the time is because she was pretending to be Mamiya. If I didn't think she was pulling strings behind the scenes before, I know now! Mikage deluded himself into thinking that Mamiya set the fire, when really he was the one that did! I thought that it suddenly seemed out of character for Mamiya to want eternity. Mamiya must have died in the fire with the 100 Duelists. The building was never repaired either. Mikage deluded himself there as well. And I thought it was funny that his secretary looked a lot like Tokiko. Obviously, she was a delusion as well, and he used the image of the women he loved as her. Revolutionary Girl Utena is series about growing up. People who stay at the school never grow up and can stay within their delusions and memories, avoiding reality and consequences altogether. I'm fucking loving this series. I know this comment is extremely old and you may not be using MAL already , but this comment is great. |
| I hate everyone equally |
| So basically all of this arc was a plot device to flesh out characters and explain some hidden story details ,the arc itself never took place , because all of this was just Mikage's(Nemuro's) delusion , while the Nemuro Memorial Hall has collapsed long ago and Nemuro himself is most likely dead for a long time. So Saionji is not back to academy or I'm misinterpreting something? Anyway , this arc was great , even though it was really slow , but after all this symbolism and explanations it makes sense. |
| I hate everyone equally |
| Portrayed as a total genius for the last couple of episodes yet Souji never wondered why Tokiko and Mamiya were from different ethnicities despite them being siblings. Also no apocalypse song? Worst saga ever. Eh... what? So all this time, it was just Akio and Anthy messing up with Souji's state of mind in order to manipulate him into setting up more easy duels against Utena? Well, talk about elaborate schemes. Not to mention kinda contrived how suddenly skillful Akio became at distorting other people's memories. So in the end, all we saw from Souji's POV were mostly his delusions taking place, huh? Interesting twist but not enough to save this awfully boring arc. Not to mention I still don't get how all the "interviews" occurred when the Nemuro building was never rebuilt to begin with. |
SouthRzVaApr 23, 2021 11:11 PM
| my brain froze.... it's like all memories linked to Nemuro Memorial Hall have been remade or erased, it's like Nemuro/Mikage never existed... anyway, he didn't succeed in reaching to 'eternity', neither by holding his identity nor for overcoming his past and (dis)illusions...Starting to wonder if the universe this academy is inserted really exists, if it's just an illusion; wondering myself if the inverted castle above the arena could be a mirrored vision of another castle building from another plan, dimension or sphere, just like that shot from the last episode, showing Tokiko's hourglass reflection on the table it relied. Well, just a question. And what about those frames....... Wondering what all this change was about, cause the pictures here are pretty different...   |
| glad there's some smart ppl in this forum lmao, was honestly just confused before reading some of the posts here as repetitive as this arc got the last two episodes were good, and honestly I wasn't too fond of him at first but Mikage's character is really interesting, him and Juri are probably my favourites- a shame we probably won't see him anymore though |
| Is nobody going to talk about that random no context conversation with the secretary? S: I wonder how you saw me Mikage: You are who you are S:...but the one I fell in love with isn't a boy younger than me like you M: I am who I am /both characters are shown after each other/ S: Well then, goodbye /bails/ Sorry, this is hilarious 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 |
| What an insane twist. There obviously was something up with Mamiya considering that he looked like Akkio and Anthy instead of Tokiko, but I would've never imagined that he was an illusion based on Tokiko's actual brother mixed with Anthy to mess with Mikage's memories. On top of that, Tokiko's brother wasn't the one who put the building on fire, but Mikage himself... But apparently the whole thing about the 100 dead students was fake, at least according to Miki. I'm not sure if we're supposed to trust him on this considering that he doesn't remember the name of this place. Anyway, even if it is pretty hard to understand due to still lacking a lot of informations, these last two episodes were very interesting and provided us some great answers to what had been going on in this arc ! Mikage was an interesting character, very tragic in the end, I liked him a lot, it's sad he ended up this way. But the most intriguing part is knowing not only that Akkio was the one who manipulated everyone including Mikage, but that Anthy really did have a part to play in this story other than simply being Utena's Bride. I wonder if she willingly let Akkio use her to trick Mikage, in which case it would further confirm that her behaviour around Utena is still fake, she's just getting better at faking it by seeming actually concerned for her at times. I really wonder how much of her personality is genuine, if there even is anything genuine about her at all or if she's just Akkio's tool. Also, I liked a lot what this episode brought to Utena's character ! It shows the story is questioning more and more her love for her prince since it actually is just as obsessive as the feelings the other duelists have for someone. I also found that interesting that the flashbacks confirmed that the girl Touga and Saionji met really was her, Touga simply wasn't the one who saved her. It makes sense that his manipulation worked on her considering that he did talk to her that day, it's not impossible at all that she actually did get her memories confused at this moment and got her prince's and Touga's appearances mixed up (and considering what we found out in this episode, maybe Touga did actually mess with her memories in an even more twisted manner the same way Akkio did with Mikage). |
FafetteDec 31, 2023 8:13 AM
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| I don't know if this makes any sense but, is Mikage the physical embodiment of Nemuro's memories? Or altered memories? So, once he realized he was the one who lit the place on fire, he "died" because his existence contradicted itself? And then, everything revolving around Mikage/Nemuro ceased to exist in this timeline and the only ones who can remember it are Anthy and Akio. I'm loving this so much even though I can barely understand it lol. |
| ?????? What? Lol Was the whole thing an illusion? Is anthy even real? So lost |
| This and ep 22 were like Evangelion episodes 25 and 26 all over again |
| So the one thing I always seem to miss (this is my 3rd watch of RGU) - where did the counselling as well as all other character interactions around that place actually happen if Nemuro's Memorial Hall was never rebuilt? We're obviously not supposed to take everything that happens in RGU at face value, but as far as I understand every location in the show does physically exist in the anime's world i.e The only explanations that I can think of are all on a metaphorical layer: we're supposed to assume the images of lift interviews that we see are only a representation of the physical counselling that happened somewhere else. But that's just an interpretation that I'm forced to come up with due to lack of information - I wonder if this has ever been properly explained, either in the anime or by Ikuhara in some interview? |
PhobossusAug 23, 9:28 AM
| I see. Your only option is to revolutionize the world. |
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