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xchee said: Also, if the numbers are accurate, Samumenco vol. 1 isn't quite selling well. This controversial episode should boost it a bit or the coming volumes. most of the anime today really don't sell well. otakus want their moe girls running around followed by women with big racks. or they want some men swimming i guess. anyway, comment terribly out of place XD |
| Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch. |
| This show took a trip to Whathefuckville....and I'm loving it. |
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| Viva Torture! King Torture. Attack of the Army of Evil. Watch again, beep, beep. ... Oh, God :D I still think they are shooting a CM, unless Samumenco went nuts or something. 5/5 |
| Still, this show isn't listed as supernatural. But then again, listing this genre from the beginning would have been a total ass spoil. But anyway I'm still curious if this will actually turn t supernatural or pull something out like a movie shooting as you were saying... |
| I doubt it was real, but IF it was I dislike the direction they decided on. |
| Check out my eurobeat guide. Who knows, you might find yourself a new favourite genre! http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=738669 |
| I was also one of those people who loved the realism aspect of the show. I don't even know what to think right now. I guess we'll see what happens next episode. |
| I....I don't even know what to say. Just when I had settled for the idea that this wouldn't be about superheroes and it was all going to maintain a realistic approach...wow, coulda fooled me. Biggest troll this season if that's what they were going for. I mean, not only was that just....wow, came out of nowhere, but holy shit that was a whole new level of brutal from this series, was a bit unsettling seeing the cop get beheaded. I really...wow, holy god. I mean, it's certainly possible that it's part of their filming, but that's not how it seemed to me based on how things were being set up earlier in the episode. The filming was all part of Hazama's personal career, so he'd have had to reveal his identity if that's the case. |
ZekkenshinNov 23, 2013 2:07 PM
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| I have 2 theories: 1) It's a movie 2) somehow the 2 main character inhaled that white substance and made them have hallucinations |
| Finally a story that is realistic. It starts out normal then it shows it's true colors. In reality speaking I think this would be the most accurate process to a rookie hero turning super hero in real life, in a setting where daily life is normal then turns darker. This was going to be my last episode if this was going to be the same monotonous routine every week, I'm glad I watch it. I hope in the end this doesn't turn out to be just a dream. The gorilla bother me, taking a drug that turns people into a monster is one thing, but then he has a guillotine in his body, if they don't explain it will look stupid in the future. The unexpected violence was a huge plus for me, since the no monsters/peaceful life/minor fights kind of anime was already carved in my head. The background sounded a little bit Batman rip-off, but his attitude towards it was different so it kinda redeemed it. |
SnaitaNov 23, 2013 2:56 PM
| I really hope the gorilla shit at the end wasn't real, because if it was...fuck you, show. |
Valaskjalf said: I have 2 theories: 1) It's a movie 2) somehow the 2 main character inhaled that white substance and made them have hallucinations 3) It was another one of Samumenco's dreams. |
| What the hell happened???? I seriously thought it was a dream until the ending song came up jfc. But nah, I still believe it's a dream, or part of the action drama. |
mayukachan said: Valaskjalf said: I have 2 theories: 1) It's a movie 2) somehow the 2 main character inhaled that white substance and made them have hallucinations 3) It was another one of Samumenco's dreams. Its just me in denial that my favorite show of the seaosn could have writing this bad, but im holding out 1 tiny bit of a hope tucked away at the deepest darkest depths of mind this is just a dream hazama is having, it will last a few episodes, then when he gets to a fight between him and a giant robot he wakes up like in the op by a phone call by his manager yelling at him that hes suppossed to be at the shoot for the final episode of that one show, we get trolled and show is saved from becoming one of the biggest jump the shark moments in writing period It wont happen but still it feels nice staying in denial, then i dont have to face how horrible the show is now now im gonna go rewatch kyouso giga's ed and op on repeat and cherish that its the only show of this season(that im watching) that im truly enjoying |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
mayukachan said: i really hope for one of these options because i enjoyed the realism in that show and now suddenly we have a transforming mutant gorilla who commits suicide by blowing himself up. i just... what the fuck happened here.Valaskjalf said: I have 2 theories: 1) It's a movie 2) somehow the 2 main character inhaled that white substance and made them have hallucinations 3) It was another one of Samumenco's dreams. |
Candor said: I wonder if this will dethrone the almighty Valvrapve and take its place as the worst written show of the year. Beating that show needs a lot of skills. let's not jump to conclusions, even if the change to an action series (which we're not even sure happened really, but it probs did), there's no guarantee that it won't be a good one. Besides, Coppelion surpassed Valvrave long ago, at least the latter has plenty of camp |
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| They are just high, really really high. |
JizzyHitler said: Pulling a tonal shift and twist out of absolutly nowhere with no build up, structure, or foreshadowing, or even remotely related setting(you can just jump from reality to supernatural in a second) = bad writing There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: JizzyHitler said: Pulling a tonal shift and twist out of absolutly nowhere with no build up, structure, or foreshadowing, or even remotely related setting(you can just jump from reality to supernatural in a second) = bad writing There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. name even one gedata said: How poorly done this episode was done already puts it high up on the shit listCandor said: I wonder if this will dethrone the almighty Valvrapve and take its place as the worst written show of the year. Beating that show needs a lot of skills. let's not jump to conclusions, even if the change to an action series (which we're not even sure happened really, but it probs did), there's no guarantee that it won't be a good one. Besides, Coppelion surpassed Valvrave long ago, at least the latter has plenty of camp |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| The only reason I'm not dropping this show after that god-awful piece of tripe is because of the director. I hope that he'll resolve this in a perfectly reasonable and satisfying way. |
| Whoooa. I can't believe that shit! A dream? I hope it's not a dream. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| W T F O_O If this really is real and not a movie/dream/hallucination then I'm pretty disappointed since I liked the realism of the show : / Hopefully the next episodes are as good as the ones that have aired so far. |
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Aggron said: Either way I'm like 99% positive that the guy who kept calling Masayoshi's agent is behind it or will be reporting/filming every minute of it since he was getting bored. Same. I think there already has been enough foreshadowing that someone got bored and decided to stir up things. I'm highly suspecting that guy (Akita) who put a bounty on these superheroes. He seems rich enough to plan and come up with such madness. The second possibility is what someone else has said, about it being a possible dream sequence. The OP shows him fighting this gigantic mecha robot before him waking up late and being scolded by his manager.. |
sentienceNov 24, 2013 4:24 AM
JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowlStopDropAndBowl said: JizzyHitler said: Pulling a tonal shift and twist out of absolutly nowhere with no build up, structure, or foreshadowing, or even remotely related setting(you can just jump from reality to supernatural in a second) = bad writing There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. name even one |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowlStopDropAndBowl said: JizzyHitler said: Pulling a tonal shift and twist out of absolutly nowhere with no build up, structure, or foreshadowing, or even remotely related setting(you can just jump from reality to supernatural in a second) = bad writing There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. name even one maybe he just hasn't seen your post yet also, all though I don't begrudge the show as you do for what happened, I still would be interested in reading more about this so-called "fore-shadowing" |
gedataNov 24, 2013 8:18 AM
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| I'm not even sure what I just watched in the last five minutes....but I loved it. Can't wait for the next episode! |
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| The number of crimes decreases thanks to Samurai Flamenco, and also to Flamenco Girls. Finally, I've been waiting for some monster to appear to battle with Samumenco. But what is that thing? some kind of ghost? maybe they are shooting for a movie. LOLWUT???? haha I didn't expect for that one to come. We need justice for Hazama's parents. |
JizzyHitler said: JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowlCalm down; I didn't shit in your cereal, I disagreed about the interpretation of a story event in an anime... Okay, First: The messages from his grandfather were obviously supposed to be taken as more delusional (of his grandfather) than anything else, but that was a mistaken assumption on the audience's part, one that the director most likely wanted. If you look at it in hindsight, now it makes sense that the grandfather would send his grandson back a message talking about becoming a hero to fight evil. Second: The existence of Red Axe was obviously supposed to be taken as the actor "becoming" his character, but again, this seems like it could be a mistaken assumption. The fact that he is so much like the hero he plays, and even considers himself a legitimate hero, makes sense now. Third: The fact that Samurai Flamenco received special weapons was weird, especially since they were wildly unrealistic, and especially because they were from a guy who works for a "stationary company". The weapons were really unrealistic... like, REALLY unrealistic. From a story point of view, why would he need those weapons, and why would some random guy from a company that makes stationary give them to him? He was already training (and becoming pretty proficient) in hand-to-hand combat. This was subtle foreshadowing that his martial skills wouldn't be enough in the future. Fourth: The fact that the idols had become heroes themselves. This was obviously supposed to be taken one of two ways. 1) It's just a funny little gag, or 2) They become the Samumenco nemesis/villian. Number 1 didn't quite fit when they played it for so long: gags like that usually happen once and then go away, and Number 2 didn't fit after Sumemenco re-established himself as the main hero of the city. There was no real conflict between him and the Flamenco Girls other than that they had slightly different ideas of what "justice" is. But that problem was resolved when Samumenco broke away from her. Why does the world need multiple hero's to deal with a small problem (petty crime), which leads me to my next point: Fifth: One of the underlying themes of the show thus far has been that Samurai Flamenco is good for solving/preventing petty crime, but can't handle heavier stuff. Gotto definitely thinks that bringing him along on something as simple as a drug bust is too much. Now, this could have been taken as foreshadowing (along with his more advanced weaponry) for the fact that eventually Samumenco would have to deal with heavier criminals like drug king-pins, but that doesn't quite fit. Gotto is absolutely right when he says that cops are better at dealing with that kind of thing. Samumenco isn't really useful for busting up drug rings, or taking down king-pins. That kind of thing in real life takes a lot of inter-agency cooperation, with relies on years of work (undercover operations, testimony from former/current members, examination of finances, etc.) You know that the most unrealistic part of Batman is? It's him taking down drug kingpins by himself. So either the show was going to keep it's "realism" (lol @ "realism" in a show with "Tape that is 10,000x stickier than normal tape") or it was going to become unrealistic in some other way. TBH, the fact that everyone thought this was "grounded in reality" and "realistic" were willfully deluding themselves. There was nothing realistic or grounded about this show. Now, what can a super-hero do that the cops can't handle better? Small time shit (like petty theft, minor assault) and super-villains. If the show was going to stay on Samumenco fighting delinquents for 15 more episodes, THAT would have been some bad writing, and would have ruined the entire point of the character. "Oh, welp, sorry Hazama, but real heroes don't exist, now go beat up some teen delinquent for the umpteenth time while the cops and Gotto deal with the real issues" No, there are super-heroes because there is a super-villain. There are super-weapons because the super-villain has super-minions. Sixth: Not really foreshadowing, but I do think that everyone should have realized that this was a 20+ episode show. You can't play the Super, hero-of-the-real-world, storyline for 20+ episodes. It was already starting to get old, and I was wondering when some other aspect would come in. The episode itself was entirely about that: Samumenco has nothing left to do. The petty crime is lower than ever, the law-abiding people love him and accept him, the mystery of his identity has gotten old and people don't really care anymore, and the cops trust him and want to use him as an "anti-crime" mascot. He's achieved everything a normal hero in a normal world ever could. So either this would become Batman, and be unrealistic, or it would be like a Power-Rangers show, and be unrealistic... and since the entire show was basically already a "power-ranger" style show, and Samurai Flamenco looks like a Power-Ranger, it should have been obvious which direction they were gonna go with that. I was shocked too, but looking back, I shouldn't have been as shocked as I was. They've been setting this up the whole time. Seriously though, there was no reason to think this show was "grounded in reality" other than mistaken assumptions that don't fit anyway. And if you want a "hero of the real world" show than go get on Netflix and watch Super, because that is exactly what it is. And guess what, that movie could never have been expanded into being a 20+ episode show. Why? Because "hero of the real world" can't fight kingpins, can't battle super-villains, can't take down criminal masterminds... he can go beat up delinquents or maybe hunt down and attack one minor criminal organization. Now, point me toward ONE thing about this show that made you think it was grounded in reality... LOL. He swung down from a building-top using measuring tape... >.< |
| Let's go bowling. |
| I... I just don't know anymore. |
StopDropAndBowl said: http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/4-the_rock_clap_clap_gif.gif |
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gedata said: Hints and foreshadowing again:JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowl I still would be interested in reading more about this so-called "fore-shadowing" 1) The show was getting more and more unrealistic with every episode. The level of realism was dropping perhaps not linearly but exponentially, however it wasn't a step-like drop-off for sure. First three episode are pretty realistic. In episode 4 and 5, weird things start to occur. A "coincidence" of having another person in the same media business who is obsessed to become a superhero to an extent of actually doing it - Samurai Girl. Not to mention how the script was executed in quite an unrealistic fashion for the first time - SF being kidnapped and magically found and saved by SG at the very convenient moment. Masayoshi also got a hit in the face, which was later left unnoticed by his manager, which is extremely unlikely considering the industry he's working at. SG gadgets are also... quite questionable of realism (especially the Flamen Thunder taser), because it raises the question of obtaining, being an owner, and using the weapon. Think of licensing and other legal issues. It also puzzles me how can her huge pink truck stay unnoticeable and untraceable. And episode 6 is the first one that starts to give a feeling of watching a true hero show like Batman. In which reality would you get all those unrealistic gadgets? The tape? The gloves? And the way they're operated? Jumping like that from a roof - how did he cancel all the kinetic energy of his motion by the end of the jump? How did he got this tape measure securely attached to another construction but then get it easily rolled back in an instant? And that glue on the gloves - if anything close is being researched today, it has NO glue on it, mimicking the surface structure of insects. And then falling from that height with a weight of two adult humans and not even getting a bone fracture? I'm not even mentioning how all these injuries affect his career of a model any more... All of this just cries "superhero show". 2) The plot development of the show itself asked for a huge villain. Take a step aside and analyse where the show stands after 6 episodes: - First you get your main character introduced. - Then he gets a cover from police. - Then he gets a coach. - Then he gets a first challenge to fight for his anonymity / flag for a potential villain from HIGH ROLLERS - Then he gets a bossy partner / flag for another potential conflict - Then he gets the weapons / flag for a Monsters Stationary corporation that is behind the professor to get enough budget in research of new weapons - yet another possible conflict. - Then he gets the legacy and motivation from his granddad And considering we have not even crossed the third part of the story yet, a real challenge, a real antagonist to oppose the hero is clearly missing. Without such antagonist there's no story to develop. So now sum 1) and 2). How many more hints and foreshadowing do you guys need? - We have an R&D company 'Monsters Stationary' with big money to invest into developing physically unrealistic new weapons that are lawful. - We have a rich guy who's willing to get the benefit from any noisy situation out there because that's pretty much how HIGH ROLLERS operate. - We have Gotou's girlfriend who is yet an unknown variable but is pissed off by Masayoshi since he grabbed all Gotou's attention - We have a hero's who's successfully cleared the city from small crime and is willing to develop as a hero and fight further And you still call it lack of foreshadowing for something big to happen??? Even if all of this is a dream, there must have been something out of the ordinary to occur because the story itself begs for it. PS StopDropAndBowl, oh, in the end you put it into words so much better than I did! A really great post up there! |
soulelleNov 24, 2013 1:05 PM
JizzyHitler said: JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowlStopDropAndBowl said: JizzyHitler said: Pulling a tonal shift and twist out of absolutly nowhere with no build up, structure, or foreshadowing, or even remotely related setting(you can just jump from reality to supernatural in a second) = bad writing There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. name even one The symbol on Samumenco's grandparents grave, if the theory of this being a dream doesn't come truth than the symbol belongs to an organization, I think it's a pretty good hint. |
StopDropAndBowl said: ... You're anything but out of your element on this one, Walter. Yeah, I guess you've got a point. Thanks for the post! |
| [/size] |
| Let me say this to start: I'm fairly disappointed with this change of events. I started watching the show expecting this. But then it was a more real than not slice of life. Sure, there were lots of unreal things, but it seemed to be just stuff to further the direction it was taking without changing it. I didn't find Kick Ass that hot because the premise was what would happen if a normal guy wore a suit and they threw it out of the window and made it a post-modern origin story. I hoped Samumenco would go down that path all the time, but the possibility of going kick ass on us was real and ended up happening. A pity. But it could be good even then. Except... THEY'RE DOING IT WRONG! How the hell can you have a showa like hero like that? He should've been kidnapped and turned into a cyborg or have had someone close killed in front of him (his parents he didn't know don't count). Or he should've been chosen by an alien/magic/future power to uphold justice. Masayoshi is also terrible for the part of the main hero. Sure, I liked him a lot, but if he's going to be a Showa hero he can't be an ikemen type full of insecurities. That's Heisei stuff. He should be a buff and confident young man. Also, no magical girl like sidekicks. (and if they're present, where's the talking magical animal mascot?) These stuff have rules. Sure, you can break them but not after you have validated them by having a fucking gorila with a guillotine in his torso shouting the name of the evil big boss before exploding. Not to mention Samumenco introducing himself and shouting "toh!" when he jumps. |
StopDropAndBowl said: JizzyHitler said: JizzyHitler said: Calm down; I didn't shit in your cereal, I disagreed about the interpretation of a story event in an anime... Okay, First: The messages from his grandfather were obviously supposed to be taken as more delusional (of his grandfather) than anything else, but that was a mistaken assumption on the audience's part, one that the director most likely wanted. If you look at it in hindsight, now it makes sense that the grandfather would send his grandson back a message talking about becoming a hero to fight evil. Second: The existence of Red Axe was obviously supposed to be taken as the actor "becoming" his character, but again, this seems like it could be a mistaken assumption. The fact that he is so much like the hero he plays, and even considers himself a legitimate hero, makes sense now. Third: The fact that Samurai Flamenco received special weapons was weird, especially since they were wildly unrealistic, and especially because they were from a guy who works for a "stationary company". The weapons were really unrealistic... like, REALLY unrealistic. From a story point of view, why would he need those weapons, and why would some random guy from a company that makes stationary give them to him? He was already training (and becoming pretty proficient) in hand-to-hand combat. This was subtle foreshadowing that his martial skills wouldn't be enough in the future. Fourth: The fact that the idols had become heroes themselves. This was obviously supposed to be taken one of two ways. 1) It's just a funny little gag, or 2) They become the Samumenco nemesis/villian. Number 1 didn't quite fit when they played it for so long: gags like that usually happen once and then go away, and Number 2 didn't fit after Sumemenco re-established himself as the main hero of the city. There was no real conflict between him and the Flamenco Girls other than that they had slightly different ideas of what "justice" is. But that problem was resolved when Samumenco broke away from her. Why does the world need multiple hero's to deal with a small problem (petty crime), which leads me to my next point: Fifth: One of the underlying themes of the show thus far has been that Samurai Flamenco is good for solving/preventing petty crime, but can't handle heavier stuff. Gotto definitely thinks that bringing him along on something as simple as a drug bust is too much. Now, this could have been taken as foreshadowing (along with his more advanced weaponry) for the fact that eventually Samumenco would have to deal with heavier criminals like drug king-pins, but that doesn't quite fit. Gotto is absolutely right when he says that cops are better at dealing with that kind of thing. Samumenco isn't really useful for busting up drug rings, or taking down king-pins. That kind of thing in real life takes a lot of inter-agency cooperation, with relies on years of work (undercover operations, testimony from former/current members, examination of finances, etc.) You know that the most unrealistic part of Batman is? It's him taking down drug kingpins by himself. So either the show was going to keep it's "realism" (lol @ "realism" in a show with "Tape that is 10,000x stickier than normal tape") or it was going to become unrealistic in some other way. TBH, the fact that everyone thought this was "grounded in reality" and "realistic" were willfully deluding themselves. There was nothing realistic or grounded about this show. Now, what can a super-hero do that the cops can't handle better? Small time shit (like petty theft, minor assault) and super-villains. If the show was going to stay on Samumenco fighting delinquents for 15 more episodes, THAT would have been some bad writing, and would have ruined the entire point of the character. "Oh, welp, sorry Hazama, but real heroes don't exist, now go beat up some teen delinquent for the umpteenth time while the cops and Gotto deal with the real issues" No, there are super-heroes because there is a super-villain. There are super-weapons because the super-villain has super-minions. Sixth: Not really foreshadowing, but I do think that everyone should have realized that this was a 20+ episode show. You can't play the Super, hero-of-the-real-world, storyline for 20+ episodes. It was already starting to get old, and I was wondering when some other aspect would come in. The episode itself was entirely about that: Samumenco has nothing left to do. The petty crime is lower than ever, the law-abiding people love him and accept him, the mystery of his identity has gotten old and people don't really care anymore, and the cops trust him and want to use him as an "anti-crime" mascot. He's achieved everything a normal hero in a normal world ever could. So either this would become Batman, and be unrealistic, or it would be like a Power-Rangers show, and be unrealistic... and since the entire show was basically already a "power-ranger" style show, and Samurai Flamenco looks like a Power-Ranger, it should have been obvious which direction they were gonna go with that. I was shocked too, but looking back, I shouldn't have been as shocked as I was. They've been setting this up the whole time. Seriously though, there was no reason to think this show was "grounded in reality" other than mistaken assumptions that don't fit anyway. And if you want a "hero of the real world" show than go get on Netflix and watch Super, because that is exactly what it is. And guess what, that movie could never have been expanded into being a 20+ episode show. Why? Because "hero of the real world" can't fight kingpins, can't battle super-villains, can't take down criminal masterminds... he can go beat up delinquents or maybe hunt down and attack one minor criminal organization. Now, point me toward ONE thing about this show that made you think it was grounded in reality... LOL. He swung down from a building-top using measuring tape... >.< oh boy this will take some time, but before i go into shooting all these done i think alot of you need to learn what foreshadowing is or even works Foreshadowing is a specific hint that ties directly into a exact specific event in the future, the event that lacks foreshadowing is the specific event of samurai flamenco becoming a supernatural anime. Now to get to work shooting down your list 1: Thats not foreshadowing to supernatural events, thats only foreshadowing that the grandfather wanted to fight bad things, in no way does that hint towards a genre shift in supernatural possibilities 2: Red axe acting like a delusional person thinking hes a hero doesnt foreshadow a thing, thats just a character defining personality, and again doesn't make any form of connection to supernatural events. 3: the weapons being unrealistic AGAIN doesnt have anything to do with a supernatural foreshadow, they were simplistic and used for comedy, made over the top to sell through how absurd the situations were in fights. 4: again thats not foreshadowing of a supernatural event, thats setting up a new set of characters that could have acted as an antagonist or possible eventual ally to hazama, them breaking away letting through the possibility face a greater threat is both a com0plete shot in the dark as well as could mean anything, they could have faced a gang, or a corrupt business or something other, its a plotpoint with a vague possible outcome. So vague it could lead to anything eve,r foreshadowing is hinting at a specific event, not every possible outcome in the world 5: for starters him not being able to handle heavier events is not the theme of the show by any means, especially since hes been able to hold his own perfectly fine since episode 5. but again that by no way means hes gonna be fighting evil flying emperors and that there would be monster attacks as common as the day by episode 9. It not a specific hint to the supernatural. 6th, this is the one that really makes me angry wehn people claim this is foreshadowing, the episode count means NOTHING, slice of lifes shows can eb any length and that doesnt mean they need to break out the supernatural or sci fi to do it, Sakuroso was 24 episodes, NHK was 24 episodes, yawara was fucking 124 (yes thats 124 and not a typo)episodes, none of them implemented a form of supernatural elements and flamenco having only 22 by no way means they had to either. A slice of life can be as long as it wants. And the plot was moving too fast that something bigger has to happen, again thats a vague and empty statement shooting at a plethora of possibilities, again foreshadowing is hinting at a specific event. That isnt it You still haven't given even a single example of foreshadowing towards a supernatural twist, you just gave a bunch of baseless shots in the dark, heres examples of actual foreshadowing monster episode 40-45 20th century boys friends identity Bioshock 1 major twist(saying what it is kind of spoils it) dangan ronpa 1 mastermind(game version, anime skipped foreshadowing cause that adaptions sucked major balls) tales of the abyss Those were foreshadowing, they were leading directly into a specific twist or event in the future, samurai flamenco COULD have done this but they didnt, they could have hinted at the supernatural by having brought up brutal crime scenes that seem like a monster did it in conversations or of the such, the supernatural was pulled straight out of their asses |
JizzyHitlerNov 24, 2013 3:25 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| You shouldn't spoil future episodes of the series in this discussion. Fuck at least use the spoiler tags. Some respect please. |
| Oh, my god. Mind blown, but that's OK because I loved it! I just didn't see it coming. |
JizzyHitler said: oh boy this will take some time, but before i go into shooting all these done i think alot of you need to learn what foreshadowing is or even works Foreshadowing is a specific hint that ties directly into a exact specific event in the future, the event that lacks foreshadowing is the specific event of samurai flamenco becoming a supernatural anime. Now to get to work shooting down your list I'll edit this to add more detail later but: "Foreshadowing or adumbrating is a literary device in which an author hints certain plot developments that perhaps will come to be later in the story." -Wikipedia Foreshadowing can be anything, it does not have to be specific, nor does it have to be about one specific event. You need to know what you're talking about before you tell me that I don't. Second, my original quote: There was a LOT of buildup and subtle hints, with a lot of structure, and even some foreshadowing. Not every example I gave could be taken as foreshadowing because that wasn't the only criteria. And having an event that isn't foreshadowed isn't "bad writing". edit 1: Also, you never answered my question (probably because it's the million dollar question) so I'll ask it again: Name ONE aspect of this show that made you think that supernatural events were RULED OUT. Introducing supernatural elements into a story is not rare, nor is it a case of bad writing. You might as well call "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" an example of bad writing because he didn't foreshadow the fact that the wardrobe led to a magical place called Narnia. edit 2: So now I've gone through all your complaints with my listings, and they can all (with the exception of one) be answered the same way: foreshadowing does not have to indicate only one possibility. If it did, then everyone would be able to figure out the events from only the foreshadowing, but that's not the point of foreshadowing. Let's use an example: A group of heroes on a quest meets a fortune teller, she says to the protag: "Find the BLA BLA BLA and you will wear a crown." "Aha!" We, the audience say, "when he finds the BLA BLA BLA, he will become the king!" But no, when he finds the BLA BLA BLA, he is actually captured and tortured and is forced to wear a crown of thorns. We couldn't then go complain that her prophecy could have been taken multiple ways so it DIDN'T foreshadow the protag's capture and torture. It was foreshadowed, it was just accompanied by red herrings. Same thing here. None of those hints meant that it HAD to become supernatural, but they did establish that it MAY become supernatural, and taken correctly, they did establish that as a very real possibility. And they did build up and give structure to the twist. |
StopDropAndBowlNov 24, 2013 8:18 PM
| Let's go bowling. |
| Been a while since I've had a "Wait, what?" moment like that in anime. :P |
| If a gorilla and a guillotine ever did the fusion dance, you'll get a guillotine gorilla. XD I'm still conflicted on whether I like this twist or not. Sure, it's shocking as hell, but supernatural elements ain't what I signed up for when i picked up this show. |
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soulelle said: gedata said: Hints and foreshadowing again:JizzyHitler said: Still waiting here stopdropandbowl I still would be interested in reading more about this so-called "fore-shadowing" 1) The show was getting more and more unrealistic with every episode. The level of realism was dropping perhaps not linearly but exponentially, however it wasn't a step-like drop-off for sure. First three episode are pretty realistic. In episode 4 and 5, weird things start to occur. A "coincidence" of having another person in the same media business who is obsessed to become a superhero to an extent of actually doing it - Samurai Girl. Not to mention how the script was executed in quite an unrealistic fashion for the first time - SF being kidnapped and magically found and saved by SG at the very convenient moment. Masayoshi also got a hit in the face, which was later left unnoticed by his manager, which is extremely unlikely considering the industry he's working at. SG gadgets are also... quite questionable of realism (especially the Flamen Thunder taser), because it raises the question of obtaining, being an owner, and using the weapon. Think of licensing and other legal issues. It also puzzles me how can her huge pink truck stay unnoticeable and untraceable. And episode 6 is the first one that starts to give a feeling of watching a true hero show like Batman. In which reality would you get all those unrealistic gadgets? The tape? The gloves? And the way they're operated? Jumping like that from a roof - how did he cancel all the kinetic energy of his motion by the end of the jump? How did he got this tape measure securely attached to another construction but then get it easily rolled back in an instant? And that glue on the gloves - if anything close is being researched today, it has NO glue on it, mimicking the surface structure of insects. And then falling from that height with a weight of two adult humans and not even getting a bone fracture? I'm not even mentioning how all these injuries affect his career of a model any more... All of this just cries "superhero show". 2) The plot development of the show itself asked for a huge villain. Take a step aside and analyse where the show stands after 6 episodes: - First you get your main character introduced. - Then he gets a cover from police. - Then he gets a coach. - Then he gets a first challenge to fight for his anonymity / flag for a potential villain from HIGH ROLLERS - Then he gets a bossy partner / flag for another potential conflict - Then he gets the weapons / flag for a Monsters Stationary corporation that is behind the professor to get enough budget in research of new weapons - yet another possible conflict. - Then he gets the legacy and motivation from his granddad And considering we have not even crossed the third part of the story yet, a real challenge, a real antagonist to oppose the hero is clearly missing. Without such antagonist there's no story to develop. So now sum 1) and 2). How many more hints and foreshadowing do you guys need? - We have an R&D company 'Monsters Stationary' with big money to invest into developing physically unrealistic new weapons that are lawful. - We have a rich guy who's willing to get the benefit from any noisy situation out there because that's pretty much how HIGH ROLLERS operate. - We have Gotou's girlfriend who is yet an unknown variable but is pissed off by Masayoshi since he grabbed all Gotou's attention - We have a hero's who's successfully cleared the city from small crime and is willing to develop as a hero and fight further And you still call it lack of foreshadowing for something big to happen??? Even if all of this is a dream, there must have been something out of the ordinary to occur because the story itself begs for it. PS StopDropAndBowl, oh, in the end you put it into words so much better than I did! A really great post up there! This. Also, considering that about 85% of the voters found this fine, should just really wait for Episode 8 to blow over before everyone decides if the story will get better or not. |
m4rc0 said: You shouldn't spoil future episodes of the series in this discussion. Fuck at least use the spoiler tags. Some respect please. As far as I can tell, there's no source material for this (at least not listed on MAL), so everything at this point is simply speculation. There's a manga on the site but it started publishing after the anime. All I can say is 15 episodes left, too early to call this "lazy writing", because no one even knows the nature of that last scene yet. |
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| Man, I sincerely hope JizzyHitler hates this show now. I'm not saying that as an insult. I just think that someone who works so hard at hating something deserves the pay off they so eagerly desire. Do you understand that by writing walls of text about this before even seeing where it goes, you all but ensured that no matter what happens, you'll dislike it. If you want to devout that amount of effort simply so you could say "ha! I knew it would suck" then just stop watching now and save yourself the bother, dude. |
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neontaster said: Man, I sincerely hope JizzyHitler hates this show now. I'm not saying that as an insult. I just think that someone who works so hard at hating something deserves the pay off they so eagerly desire. Do you understand that by writing walls of text about this before even seeing where it goes, you all but ensured that no matter what happens, you'll dislike it. If you want to devout that amount of effort simply so you could say "ha! I knew it would suck" then just stop watching now and save yourself the bother, dude. In his defense, I wrote massive walls of text defending it. I would have been kind of annoyed had he not responded in kind. JizzyHitler, if you're reading this, I appreciate the discussion we had and do value your points. I just disagree is all. |
| Let's go bowling. |
StopDropAndBowl said: In his defense, I wrote massive walls of text defending it. I would have been kind of annoyed had he not responded in kind. JizzyHitler, if you're reading this, I appreciate the discussion we had and do value your points. I just disagree is all. Fair enough, but I see way more merit in defending something you enjoy at length than trying to explain to other people why it isn't good. |
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neontaster said: Well I dunno about 'merit' (who needs that), but attack is the best defence. Got to arm yourself in preparation for the next time someone comes along and attacks your fav show. Trial by fire and all that. StopDropAndBowl said: In his defense, I wrote massive walls of text defending it. I would have been kind of annoyed had he not responded in kind. JizzyHitler, if you're reading this, I appreciate the discussion we had and do value your points. I just disagree is all. Fair enough, but I see way more merit in defending something you enjoy at length than trying to explain to other people why it isn't good. When this show is all done and done, I hope we will all be able to sit down together, (like proper ladies and gents) and prescribe a full declaration asserting the Fabulousness, Genius, and Unfathomable Enjoyable Excellence that is Samurai Flamenco, such that all ever after will know that it was most surely the best piece of moving 2D the world had ever seen. |
CkanNov 25, 2013 8:19 AM
neontaster said: Well, merit is subjective. Who knows, maybe he's provoking the conversation for the sake of gathering different opinions, which he can later use for his doctorate degree in literature or something like that ^^ I've seen people doing that. Or maybe he just likes to have an argument, like I often do. Or maybe he just loves to hate or is a troll. Or maybe there's something else... Who knows... I don't agree with the lack of foreshadowing or poorly directed plot twist too, but having to argue with JizzyHitler here made me carefully rewatch the show from the start and catch some interesting plot points I would've totally missed otherwise. I'll share some of them with you later tonight. It also gave me a much better understanding of the show as a whole, and what else could I ask for?Fair enough, but I see way more merit in defending something you enjoy at length than trying to explain to other people why it isn't good. |
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