| Scenario: You have a lesbian girl as the MC, (How do you know she's lesbian? Well she herself claims so!) and you have a hot looking straight guy whom she has no interest in but he's totally into her. He actively peruses her, doesn't take no for an answer, invades her privacy and personal space, does not respect her boundaries, even rapes her. As the series progresses she gets used to having her personal boundaries invalidated and starts falling in love with the guy and eventually sees how much he loves her and accepts his love and they live happily ever after. Question: 1. Would you defend the guy because love is love? 2. Would you praise such a series for having bisexual representation or throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? |
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| not the answer you are looking for but I find your scenario so hot, I like yandere characters and over obsessive types and your story even has rape, this is peak. |
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| I'm not a BL fan, but since this isn't BL: Maou_heika said: As a fictional scenario I would defend all of it, but assuming it was real: I would only defend a persistent pursue, because I think it's legit to not give up immediately and prove one's determination after a rejection.1. Would you defend the guy because love is love? Maou_heika said: I would praise it for the depiction of such an unusual scenario and potential lessons that could be learned from it.2. Would you praise such a series for having bisexual representation or throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? |
ZarutakuYesterday, 10:33 AM
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
| Wouldn't be reading it since it isn't bl anyway 🙄 1. Love is love |
| Sounds to me like she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. She's coping with the constant torture being done to her by tricking herself into believing that she loves him because she sees no way out of that situation. Maou_heika said: 1. Would you defend the guy because love is love? Nope, I wouldn't defend him. It also doesn't sound like they actually love each other deep down. The lesbian MC seems to be coping really hard with Stockholm Syndrome, while the guy character just has the hots for her but doesn't actually love her deep down. Maou_heika said: 2. Would you praise such a series for having bisexual representation or throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? I definitely wouldn't praise such a series for having bisexual representation. Would I throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? Well, if this is a BL series, then no, since I very likely wouldn't pick up this series to begin with. If this isn't a BL series, I really like the character a lot, and that character was done really dirty by the author, then depending on the details, that could potentially be another story. |
| 1. I would not defend the guy's actions. 2. I would not praise such a representation. |
| If she was a futanari and he violated her dick with his ass it would be okay... I think. I don't know if I would defend him, I don't think so... I think. I don't know what to say about the second question. |
 |
| Is this purely theoretical, or does such a story actually exist? |
| Cucumber ice cream is the best! |
| Reminds me of an old shoujo manga, don't know if it had an adaptation or not, which had a fairly successful run, but ended up effectively canceling the author in the Western shoujo community. |
 |
| Rape seems a red line but anything else if she keeps allowing him then its fine for me. I would 100% watch this. Maou_heika said: Would you defend the guy because love is love? Yes Maou_heika said: Would you praise such a series for having bisexual representation or throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? Yes it's very unique |
| sounds cool to me Yandere's are neat (I've finally come around to them) the sexuality part is meh but doesn't really matter |
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| I haven't seen a whole lot of BL and I prefer yuri or just straight romances though I can enjoy BL it seems and what I have seen so far I haven't seen any of that. Tasogare Out Focus did have a rapey scene but it was due to a state of delirium so it so it lacked any moral violation of accountability and he apologized anyway iirc. I am aware of the trope though but I have a feeling a lot of cases might be due to language barriers and cultural differences. Japanese has multiple words for "no" that lose their distinction of meaning when being translated just flatly as "no" especially given the contextual nature of Japanese. So it isn't necessarily rape in every case as it is one male being very assertive and the other being very coy and shyly hesitant but willing. Not everything is black and white. It would be helpful if someone from Japan would explain it or if there is some interviews with BL authors that explains their intent behind certain scenes. As for the premise, I'd watch that and judge for myself but you can dislike a character's actions and still like the character or find it arousing to watch so I don't even get what you're looking for. I mean it is just fiction viewed in the lens of fetishism anyway so it doesn't matter. GinInYourJuice said: Sounds to me like she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. She's coping with the constant torture being done to her by tricking herself into believing that she loves him because she sees no way out of that situation. Stockholm Syndrome is not real. It's just something that persistently is used in media. It's not in any diagnostic manual. If you read into it it's just a self defense mechanism of people kidnapped or held hostage trying to avoid being hurt or trick their captor so they can escape or otherwise just normal empathy from a more empathetic person from the time spent together able to know them. Being empathetic or having self preservation skills isn't a mental illness. |
| ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
| 1. Would you defend the guy because love is love? No 2. Would you praise such a series for having bisexual representation or throw a fit for the way the relationship was depicted? Neither? I just don't like this sort of behavior, which is why I prefer more wholesome interactions. |
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| I'm pretty sure there are a thousand stories like that on AO3. |
| I guess this is about how (supposedly, because I don't really read them) a lot of BL stories are quite rapey. |
 |
| Geezus. These type of scenarios are fantasies for women. Why do you say this is food, for thought of BL fans? Like I know a lot of BL is made for women, and this is the kind of thing y'all think about apparently.... but I watch BL anime so I can see gay relationship... how about you? Merry Christmas |
| 1. Love doesn't justify anything and everything. I'd be ok with him pursuing her to some extent, as long as he wasn't overly pushy or gross about it, but rape is obviously a step too far. It's fiction, so no one is actually getting hurt, but I personally probably wouldn't enjoy a story like that. Even then though, depending on how his behavior was addressed (like it if wasn't treated as romantic or charming because he just likes her so much he can't help but be a massive creep), it could still be an engaging story. I don't think I'd want them to end up together though, unless maybe he went through a believable redemption arc and sincerely regretted how he'd treated her. It would just depend on how everything played out. People can make bad decisions and do the wrong things, and then go on to genuinely grow as a person and realize how awful they were. I might accept it if it went in that direction. 2. Maybe both? Maybe neither? Representation probably wouldn't be a big factor to me either way. Thankfully, most of these old BL stereotypes are the exception to the rule now (though even among older works when these kinds of things were more common, it was never universal). Healthy relationships and consent are the norm in more recent works from the last 15ish years or so (though "healthy" doesn't necessarily mean blissful and problem-free, just like it doesn't in straight romance stories). Obviously it would be great if things had always been this way, but better late than never, I guess. |
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Reply to traed
I haven't seen a whole lot of BL and I prefer yuri or just straight romances though I can enjoy BL it seems and what I have seen so far I haven't seen any of that. Tasogare Out Focus did have a rapey scene but it was due to a state of delirium so it so it lacked any moral violation of accountability and he apologized anyway iirc. I am aware of the trope though but I have a feeling a lot of cases might be due to language barriers and cultural differences. Japanese has multiple words for "no" that lose their distinction of meaning when being translated just flatly as "no" especially given the contextual nature of Japanese. So it isn't necessarily rape in every case as it is one male being very assertive and the other being very coy and shyly hesitant but willing. Not everything is black and white. It would be helpful if someone from Japan would explain it or if there is some interviews with BL authors that explains their intent behind certain scenes.
As for the premise, I'd watch that and judge for myself but you can dislike a character's actions and still like the character or find it arousing to watch so I don't even get what you're looking for. I mean it is just fiction viewed in the lens of fetishism anyway so it doesn't matter.
Stockholm Syndrome is not real. It's just something that persistently is used in media. It's not in any diagnostic manual. If you read into it it's just a self defense mechanism of people kidnapped or held hostage trying to avoid being hurt or trick their captor so they can escape or otherwise just normal empathy from a more empathetic person from the time spent together able to know them. Being empathetic or having self preservation skills isn't a mental illness.
As for the premise, I'd watch that and judge for myself but you can dislike a character's actions and still like the character or find it arousing to watch so I don't even get what you're looking for. I mean it is just fiction viewed in the lens of fetishism anyway so it doesn't matter.
GinInYourJuice said:
Sounds to me like she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. She's coping with the constant torture being done to her by tricking herself into believing that she loves him because she sees no way out of that situation.
Sounds to me like she's suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. She's coping with the constant torture being done to her by tricking herself into believing that she loves him because she sees no way out of that situation.
Stockholm Syndrome is not real. It's just something that persistently is used in media. It's not in any diagnostic manual. If you read into it it's just a self defense mechanism of people kidnapped or held hostage trying to avoid being hurt or trick their captor so they can escape or otherwise just normal empathy from a more empathetic person from the time spent together able to know them. Being empathetic or having self preservation skills isn't a mental illness.
| @traed traed said: Stockholm Syndrome is not real. It's just something that persistently is used in media. It's not in any diagnostic manual. If you read into it it's just a self defense mechanism of people kidnapped or held hostage trying to avoid being hurt or trick their captor so they can escape or otherwise just normal empathy from a more empathetic person from the time spent together able to know them. Being empathetic or having self preservation skills isn't a mental illness. Yeah, it isn't officially classified as a mental illness, but I also highly doubt that there's never been anyone in the past who's sided with their captors or abusers. There are bound to be at least a good number of people who would feel inclined to do what they have to do in order to maintain the last bit of sanity that they have left and/or to increase their chances of escape, even if their chances are increased by just by a little. |
Reply to Absurdo_N
If she was a futanari and he violated her dick with his ass it would be okay... I think.
I don't know if I would defend him, I don't think so... I think.
I don't know what to say about the second question.
I don't know if I would defend him, I don't think so... I think.
I don't know what to say about the second question.
| @Absurdo_N But in BL the top is always the aggressor. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to Lucifrost
@Absurdo_N
But in BL the top is always the aggressor.
But in BL the top is always the aggressor.
| @Lucifrost It's not always like that, perverted harassing ukes exist. |
|
SuperAdventure said: Because I have come across interest stacks about BL anime with the exact same scenario being praised as bisexual representation.Geezus. These type of scenarios are fantasies for women. Why do you say this is food, for thought of BL fans? SuperAdventure said: Love stage is befitting of the scenario, just turn Izumi into a lesbian girl and keep everything else the same.but I watch BL anime so I can see gay relationship |
|
Nutella71 said: BL fans often label straight boys as bisexual after they turn gay when a hot gay dude constantly harasses, abuses and possibly rapes them.Neither really, I wouldn't care that much as it doesn't sound like something I'd usually watch. And it wouldn't be bisexual representation because neither of them is bi. Simple as that. |
Maou_heikaYesterday, 9:54 AM
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Reply to Maou_heika
Nutella71 said:
Neither really, I wouldn't care that much as it doesn't sound like something I'd usually watch. And it wouldn't be bisexual representation because neither of them is bi. Simple as that.
BL fans often label straight boys as bisexual after they turn gay when a hot gay dude constantly harasses, abuses and possibly rapes them.Neither really, I wouldn't care that much as it doesn't sound like something I'd usually watch. And it wouldn't be bisexual representation because neither of them is bi. Simple as that.
| @Maou_heika In my opinion, "bisexual representation" requires evidence that the character is attracted to both sexes. BL don't do that, because having a boy flirt with a girl goes against the whole point of the show. Of course there are exceptions such as this hentai. https://myanimelist.net/anime/47591/Kuro_Gal_ni_Natta_kara_Shinyuu_to_shitemita |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Hi, look, "BL fans" just means people who love BL content. Among them, some like noncon and some don't. Hope that helps. |
Reply to Lucifrost
@Maou_heika
In my opinion, "bisexual representation" requires evidence that the character is attracted to both sexes. BL don't do that, because having a boy flirt with a girl goes against the whole point of the show. Of course there are exceptions such as this hentai.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/47591/Kuro_Gal_ni_Natta_kara_Shinyuu_to_shitemita
In my opinion, "bisexual representation" requires evidence that the character is attracted to both sexes. BL don't do that, because having a boy flirt with a girl goes against the whole point of the show. Of course there are exceptions such as this hentai.
https://myanimelist.net/anime/47591/Kuro_Gal_ni_Natta_kara_Shinyuu_to_shitemita
| @Lucifrost I think the assumption is based on the boy earlier identifying as straight rather than him actually flirting with girls and later going gay for his abuser, of course there are there are people who would simply call such a character gay as well. |
|
Reply to jal90
Hi, look, "BL fans" just means people who love BL content. Among them, some like noncon and some don't. Hope that helps.
| @jal90 The question is not about liking noncon or not but rather the hypocrisy behind the so called gay/bisexual "representation" they claim in such a scenario. |
|
Reply to Maou_heika
SuperAdventure said:
Geezus. These type of scenarios are fantasies for women. Why do you say this is food, for thought of BL fans?
Because I have come across interest stacks about BL anime with the exact same scenario being praised as bisexual representation.Geezus. These type of scenarios are fantasies for women. Why do you say this is food, for thought of BL fans?
SuperAdventure said:
but I watch BL anime so I can see gay relationship
Love stage is befitting of the scenario, just turn Izumi into a lesbian girl and keep everything else the same.but I watch BL anime so I can see gay relationship
| @Maou_heika Maou_heika said: Because I have come across interest stacks about BL anime Well good for you. What other people are interested in is nothing to do with BL fans as some group. If someone praises it, you can disagree with them. Maou_heika said: just turn Izumi into a lesbian girl Izumi isn't a lesbian girl. He's a guy. But if you want to write your own fan fiction and make him into a girl then go ahead. |
| "Your mouth says this, but your body is being honest" is a common trope. The rule of thumb if "If the pupils turned into hearts, then it was consensual". |
traed said: Stockholm Syndrome is not real. It's just something that persistently is used in media. It's not in any diagnostic manual. If you read into it it's just a self defense mechanism of people kidnapped or held hostage trying to avoid being hurt or trick their captor so they can escape or otherwise just normal empathy from a more empathetic person from the time spent together able to know them. Being empathetic or having self preservation skills isn't a mental illness. Then what about calling it Stockholm mechanism instead of syndrome? |
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
Reply to Maou_heika
@jal90 The question is not about liking noncon or not but rather the hypocrisy behind the so called gay/bisexual "representation" they claim in such a scenario.
| @Maou_heika There is no such hypocrisy. If they only like BL, there's no reason why they'd enjoy a romance with a female or female-coded character as a central piece. If they like noncon content like the one you describe only in BL, then they will still not like it because this isn't BL. And if they don't like noncon, then no matter how much of other things aside from BL they watch, they will still not like this. So it's really absurd, since you are asking a question to a fandom about a personal preference within some members of the fandom, and that also aligns with their tastes and doesn't contradict anything. |
| that just sounds gross. Having bi representation is great but most women would tell you that a person constantly overstepping our boundaries is just not really acceptable and will almost never lead to the desired result. Sometimes people like these scenarios in fiction but it just gives me the ick as a pansexual woman who has had to deal with constant sexual harassment by people trying to "pursue" me before. |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place.  |
| This is a romance/erotica problem, not a BL one. Look up "booktok" and "dark romance" and you'll see books like "Haunting Adeline" that make Yaoi rape look tame in comparison... And all happening to women, too! Just like real life... BL gets a lot more flak because it's gay and either that in and of itself freaks people out or darker/complex narratives involving minorities are scrutinized for not being positive because people are assumed to be stupid and will think that bad/morally ambiguous guy who happens to be black or gay makes all people who fall into that category bad. The number one demographic of homophobes is straight men and they are NOT reading Yaoi, nor getting their worldview from picking up a copy of Yarichin Bitch Club. They are getting homophobia from irl sources like alpha male podcasts, Fox News and friend groups... I would know, unlike the stereotype I actually go outside and talk to people! BL isn't supposed to be representation like how we treat it in the Western media, as an afterschool special PSA that we're supposed to pat ourselves on the back for since we consumed the good media(tm) and are therefore good (noticeably, western capitalism has ingeniously ingrained the facade of morality and politics into many of its products to create identity-based product consumption, boosting sales via building deeply entrenched brand loyalty; I doubt it truly works tbh). The characters are not political/moral messaging stand-ins, they are their own men who struggle, lose, rejoice, suffer and win. Here's an excerpt from a review I wrote, about Akira from Togainu no Chi He is one of my favourite characters of all time BECAUSE he is an emotionally stunted young man who starts out as dismissive and distant, but is forced to confront his emotions due to the shock and trauma of his environment, and what happens between him and his new allies. He is forced to be vulnerable. He takes damage. He is traumatized. He is stressed. He is tested. He cracks. And despite it all, he chooses life, forgiveness and love. His growth is greatly influenced by what each romantic interest in the route has to teach him (whether literally like in Motomi’s route or perhaps a trial by fire like Rin) which makes him best appreciated in the grand, holistic scheme of things when you’ve been through every route after like 30 hours. How is he more of an offensive caricature than surface-level bubbly crap like Heartstopper (which I did try to read btw)??? Genuinely curious. Look dawg, I don't think the LGBT community at large gives af about BL in general since it's pretty niche in the grand scheme of things. Gay guys' main complaint about Yaoi is that the men are too feminine in both behaviour and appearance, not the non-con (look for like 2 seconds in GeiKomi and you'd see that it's just as, if not more viscerally present). We have a decent amount of Bisexual Fudanshis in the BL Fanclub. A lot of trans men said they transitioned because of Yaoi. The community is the number one place to find nerdy lesbians and bisexual women and I love being there because of it! All the complaints about BL come from Twitter and Tumblr "people" and it's usually dumb projection/mischaracterization on their part. |
Total_SaikouYesterday, 12:11 PM
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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
that just sounds gross. Having bi representation is great but most women would tell you that a person constantly overstepping our boundaries is just not really acceptable and will almost never lead to the desired result. Sometimes people like these scenarios in fiction but it just gives me the ick as a pansexual woman who has had to deal with constant sexual harassment by people trying to "pursue" me before.
LSSJ_Gaming said: a person constantly overstepping [females'] boundaries is just not really acceptable and will almost never lead to the desired result. @LSSJ_Gaming I can say from personal experience that this simply isn't true at all, it sounds like you're just making a moralistic fallacy. LSSJ_Gaming said: Sometimes people like these scenarios in fiction If we're just talking about females then that is a massive understatement. |
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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
that just sounds gross. Having bi representation is great but most women would tell you that a person constantly overstepping our boundaries is just not really acceptable and will almost never lead to the desired result. Sometimes people like these scenarios in fiction but it just gives me the ick as a pansexual woman who has had to deal with constant sexual harassment by people trying to "pursue" me before.
| @LSSJ_Gaming I've read way worse, you could literally just write this into a book and sell it to women, maybe getting rid of the lesbian subplot would get you more sales, but otherwise it's quite tame. |
| Cucumber ice cream is the best! |
Reply to Sphealz
Wouldn't be reading it since it isn't bl anyway 🙄 1. Love is love
#loveisloveisevrythingyoudo.org |
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| That’s disgusting no I wouldn’t read it and even if i did I would hate the guy. I critique bl with rape all the time so a heterosexual story with the same elements would be even worse because its no enjoyment. Also why is this question specifically towards BL fans? |
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