Arte Episode 2 Discussion

joexmdq said:

So men opinions can't be taken into account because they doesn't fit yours, ok then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Short_Circut said:

Nah witch craft was just me saying a case where this antagonistic view would make sense lol
But I do think it can be considered mob mentality though. Even the explanation you gave is pretty much what it is, their whole life they’ve seen women in a passive role so they become critical when a woman tries to do something out of the norm

See if they did laugh it off or showed other ways of dismissing Arte because she was a woman other than outright saying it, then I would’ve had no issues with it cause it would’ve been easily believable (I won’t say ‘realistic’ cause again, we’ll never know for sure). It’s precisely because of the overly antagonistic manor that seems to serve more of a purpose of putting Arte on some imaginary pedestal than to emulate the actions of people in the era, that makes the whole situation more laughable rather than representative

DedPanda said:
Honestly there's arguments on both sides that can be made over this series so far. Yes, the whole "because you're a girl" argument has officially played itself out after two episodes of this series. And yes, the constant reminder of said statement in regards to the times and how it was back then also sets the tone for a form of reality of that setting in the time period we are witnessing. It makes sense all the same...however, there is something that is not being talked about right now and that is the idea of sexism from both sides of the isle.

First and foremost, we already know how it goes from Arte's perspective. Women have a certain role in this society and Arte is defying it while men play their's. In addition, we see how Arte is growing as a character whilst facing the constant repeat of that argument in her life by tackling every obstacle head on and climbing over...however, we are missing out on what was just presented by Angelo's character - the constant idea of male chivalry.

Angelo's presence in this episode was literally stopping to offer help to a woman he felt was in need no matter the situation. He tried to take care of Arte's burden, he helped the girl pick up her basket of fruit, and he was instructed by his father to look after his sisters. But the key here is that he is doing what is expected of him as a man. Look at the way his sisters treated him the moment he got home. Each one of them had a request for him to do something for them without doing anything in return or even doing anything that constitutes a form of gratitude. They just asked him to do it and expected him to do so because that was the thing that was expected of him as the male in the household. Honestly, no matter how much one could argue he's a beta sounding male character, he is an excellent foil to Arte because whereas Arte is defying the ideology of doing what is expected of her as a female, Angelo is falling in line with what is expected of a man.

The key difference here is that Angelo's role is written in such a way that leaves it up to the viewer to decipher what's going on, a true 'show, don't tell' approach. Whereas Arte's struggle is constantly repeated throughout the episode.

Kimurah said:


Realism jumped out the window when a 15 year old girl was able to lift up 50+Kg clay sacks and moved 10 of them without getting fatigue or sored muscles (aside from her grip) when it actually it was needed two bulky guys to move those around

Realism also shot itself on the head and fell into it's casket when it made a 15 year old teenager that knows nothing or has any experience about carpentry, and allowed her to do a complete shed from the ground up.



Because basically the author is indirectly telling their audience that they are idiots and they need to be reminded every 2 minutes that because Arte is a girl, she couldn't do any men's work. We got the message from the very first episode and from the beginning of this second episode, it's completely unnecesary to make the side characters and background character sing the same tune the whole episode. Who knows how many times the same literal message will it be thrown on to the audience in the next episodes. A good writer would make use of "show don't tell" rather than make all the characters "tell" the same message over and over.

Bibimbapski said:
I'm a fucking idiot so I don't know much but I didn't know that dowries existed in Europe back then. I learned about dowries while studying about Indian culture in school back when I was a kid in California, I don't recall much though. I was surprised it was mentioned twice. There is so much to learn.

Anyways, I think it's funny how many people, including myself, called Angelo a simp. He really is simping but others would call it being a decent human or gentleman-like. I hope his sisters didn't torment him for telling them to learn how to do things on their own.

I know this takes place during the Renaissance and all and yes, the idea is that it's rare for women to do the things Arte is doing but seriously? I am fucking tired of hearing every single male character (and even many of the female characters) in the series tell her she can't do something because she's a woman. It gets tiring just as much as a female character saying, "Don`t underestimate me just because I'm a girl" over and over again. We fucking get it!

For some reason, Arte is more of a shoujo character than a seinen character. Like others have said, she is very Japanese shoujo rather than acting like a European teenage girl.

I'm going to skim through the manga to see if it gets any better.

Bibimbapski said:
I'm a fucking idiot so I don't know much but I didn't know that dowries existed in Europe back then. I learned about dowries while studying about Indian culture in school back when I was a kid in California, I don't recall much though. I was surprised it was mentioned twice. There is so much to learn.

Anyways, I think it's funny how many people, including myself, called Angelo a simp. He really is simping but others would call it being a decent human or gentleman-like. I hope his sisters didn't torment him for telling them to learn how to do things on their own.

I know this takes place during the Renaissance and all and yes, the idea is that it's rare for women to do the things Arte is doing but seriously? I am fucking tired of hearing every single male character (and even many of the female characters) in the series tell her she can't do something because she's a woman. It gets tiring just as much as a female character saying, "Don`t underestimate me just because I'm a girl" over and over again. We fucking get it!

For some reason, Arte is more of a shoujo character than a seinen character. Like others have said, she is very Japanese shoujo rather than acting like a European teenage girl.

I'm going to skim through the manga to see if it gets any better.

CBeast25 said:
I think I would enjoy this show a lot more if it didn't have a "because your a woman" moment almost every scene. It really takes me out of the already mediocre show it is.

Johnny-Jay said:
This episode felt too similar to the first one, with another "impossible task" to complete for Arte. Also, the dialogues were too simplistic in my opinion, Angelo's lines made me roll my eyes a few times.

Luthandorius said:
Another great episode. I wonder why the score is that low on MAL? (The other anime with the bookworm girl seems to have higher score ... weird.) Mabe it is anti feminists voting it down on purpose? (Because they don't want a strong girl in historic setting because it is "unrealistic".)

Kimurah said:
This isn't getting any better :/

I get it that Arte is meant to be a character to create awarenes in gender equitity, but it really gets tiresome when everyone and their cat have to throw in the phrase "it's because you're a woman"

I thought we had already filled in the quota of impossible feats to beat with episode 1 and Arte made all those 20 tempera planks, yet again, we have to see that she's some freak of nature and she can "repair" her shed and make it look better than new in just a week without any experience in carpentry or carry 20 sacks of clay that even 2 guys had a hard time carrying them around, but she miraculously finds a way to move all 20 of them without suffering from fatigue or any real toll on all her workout (cept for losing her grip obviously)

Angelo isn't much better. Yeah sure, his SIMP-like behaviour is backed up for his family that completely rely on him doing all the work, but the message from the author is just too blatant, yeah we get it, extremes are bad and not every girl is a damsel in distress, but it felt like this episode couldn't stop beating on a dead horse on these two particular subjects.


Hope episode 3 gets better now that Angelo had his sudden character development and possibly there will be more background characters that don't run on the same hivemind mentaility toiwards Arte.

mlala said:

He obviously meant "people complaining about [struggle] being overstated are those who have never experienced that [struggle], how unsurprising".

PaninaManina said:

Now, said that, one of the things that they changed that annoys is is that THEY MADE ARTE WEAKER.



Arte didn't had a sudden transformation the day she decided to leave her house, she was already working for hear goal long before that.
But in the anime she suffered a transformation in her personality.

This is just a bad adaptation.

PaninaManina said:
Just a comment: IT DOES NOT TAKES TWO MAN TO CARRY THOSE BAGS

Just one is enough.
Also, you don't need to be a "man", you just need to have the strength to carry the bad. Arte have the strength, she can carry those bags.
The reason why was two apprentices carrying those bags was... BECAUSE THIS WAY IS EASIER. They are there working together the whole day, it's only natural that they will work together to get the job done, share the burdens.

Now, said that, one of the things that they changed that annoys is is that THEY MADE ARTE WEAKER.



Arte didn't had a sudden transformation the day she decided to leave her house, she was already working for hear goal long before that.
But in the anime she suffered a transformation in her personality.



Where's all her optimism and energy?

This is just a bad adaptation.
They rushed Angelo introduction jumping from chapter 2 to chapter 8 and the way he talks with his sisters in the end of the episode is infuriating.




Incredible sad waste of good material.

Mystic_Writer said:

I just wanted to say thanks for showing off that portion of the manga. While I questioned her handling all the bags without showing more signs of strain, the latter portion of that page clearly shows that she did indeed have more athletic ability then the anime cared to admit. If they did show that, I think that there would have been less of a reaction to it. You're right about this being a poor adaptation.

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:

While I agree that the adaptation is lacking I think it's extremely useful and fun to read so many people saying in this thread : "she shouldn't be able to carry the bags". They just assume "because she is a woman from the nobility" that she has no training and no physical ability.

Why ? Prejudice of course!

And it becomes even more funny when you read after this that the anime is too obvious with the "because she is a woman" sentence.


So many people are making fools of themselves in this thread, or let say, the prejudices of the firsts are completely countering the assumptions of the latters. It's like people criticizing this anime are destroying each others' argumentation naturally. BEAUTIFUL !!!

Ysad_Ziwezhan said:


While I agree that the adaptation is lacking I think it's extremely useful and fun to read so many people saying in this thread : "she shouldn't be able to carry the bags". They just assume "because she is a woman from the nobility" that she has no training and no physical ability.

Why ? Prejudice of course!

And it becomes even more funny when you read after this that the anime is too obvious with the "because she is a woman" sentence.


So many people are making fools of themselves in this thread, or let say, the prejudices of the firsts are completely countering the assumptions of the latters. It's like people criticizing this anime are destroying each others' argumentation naturally. BEAUTIFUL !!!

FoolishDaoist said:

...
If you're not a famous maestro, you would never brashly decline a noble lady or even push her around, in fear of repercussion from people with a much higher standing than them. After all they rely on employment by the nobility.
...

PastFuturist said:

This. Even if her family was not powerful, even if she had no distant powerful relatives, even if she was so ugly that you were sure that she'd never marry into a powerful family, even if her family didn't know anybody who could bring in (or squash) jobs, even if all that was true, the nobility would not indefinitely tolerate commoners bullying a member of the nobility.