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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Did Pazu die in this episode, or was it the crazy lady? |
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| The one who died was Kaori, his sick ex lover. Pazu would've had trouble fitting in with Motoko's group if it was Kaori who survived the knife duel. |
| "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum. As popular war advances, peace is closer" |
| That's what I thought, but it was somewhat ambiguous, as (apparently) they both had knife slashes across their chests. That, and Kaori seemed to display abilities that were above those of a typical civilian (i.e., going up against Pazu in a knife fight), and since she was so obsessive, I wouldn't've put it past her to learn to mimic Pazu pretty well. |
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| hmmm, I guess you are right with your observation. I think that with this type of story telling makes GitS more exciting and fun to watch. The unpredictability and the twists of the plots are always the unique traits that make the series above par with other anime. Well that is just my opinion! =) |
| "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum. As popular war advances, peace is closer" |
| i think it was Pazu that died, i just get that feeling. I mean she could easily copy his memories an what not. But what really interests me is that the major and batou at the end didnt seem to care all that much either way. Batou: "So do you think thats the real Pazu?" Major: "Probably". and then they keep on driving down the street |
| Hmm, whether that is the real Pazu or not will remain a mystery :3 |
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| After re-watching 2nd Gig 4 times, in my humble opinion, I came to the conclusion that Pazu was the one who survived the fight. If it was his crazy stalker bitch ex who won the duel and just copied his memories it would at least be noticeable to the members of S9. Yes, you can copy memories but as I've recalled from the various conversations of the Tachikomas, Kuze and some members of S9 you can copy memories but that doesnt make you an individual much less give you a soul. For Pazu's case it if it was indeed the ex who survived, it would be such a hard act to maintain! Some traces of their individuality (ex's former self) would remain and would not completely be Pazu. |
| "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum. As popular war advances, peace is closer" |
| Also, if I may add another thing, the reason why the Major and Batou simply shrugged off Pazu's issue was simply this: he had it coming! Pazu was a Yakuza prior to joining S9, he was also a prolific womanizer and his famous line is "I've never slept with the same woman twice!" He even had the gall to say that to his boss, the Major, when he joined her command. And as the Major said "I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of women want him dead.." So I really think that the attitude of Motoko and Batou was, you damn womanizer, you reap what you sow! =) |
| "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum. As popular war advances, peace is closer" |
| In any other anime, we would certainly learn which one was left standing, but in GitS, we don't have a clue. And that is why I like this anime. Unpredictability is the key. Also, a big huge "lol" at Motoko and Batou's reaction. They don't care either way. |
DaBigD said: In any other anime, we would certainly learn which one was left standing, but in GitS, we don't have a clue. And that is why I like this anime. Unpredictability is the key. Also, a big huge "lol" at Motoko and Batou's reaction. They don't care either way. I also like how the Major told Batou from her recollections that when she first recruited Pazu he commented his famous line: "I don't sleep with the same woman twice!" The Major was probably amused at him that's why she didn't get offended by it, but knowing Motoko... =) |
| "We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum. As popular war advances, peace is closer" |
| Really beautiful episode, we haven't gotten to see much of Pazu really so this was a good episode to express his character. And in the english dubbed version I have, I'm pretty sure Pazu's ex said something to the effect of "I have your ghost now, I don't need the real you" implying that it could have been her that lived and that she could possibly live out his life. I did really enjoy batous reaction to majors question though, very enjoyable :) |
DaBigD said: In any other anime, we would certainly learn which one was left standing, but in GitS, we don't have a clue. And that is why I like this anime. Unpredictability is the key. Also, a big huge "lol" at Motoko and Batou's reaction. They don't care either way. Yeah, GITS is a pretty ambiguous franchise. It allows you to take what you want out of it's plot. I think this is probably why this is such a rewatchable show, and very enjoyable. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| lmao this episode ... xD was good, I mean with Pazu's past being explored a bit and then the question of whether it was actually him and the end, but lol @ the Major and Batou's indifference @_@ |
| Best episode of CSI, ever. It was definitely Paz that survived. At the beginning of the fight the one who is clearly Paz is slashed across the chest and bleeds. At the end of the fight the show the chest of the one who died, and there is also a slash across the chest. However this one is a deep crevice without any blood, and obviously a prosthetic. |
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| So, does anyone who Pazu is until this episode? I didn't even know this character existed in Section 9 until this episode lol |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
Confucius said: So, does anyone who Pazu is until this episode? I didn't even know this character existed in Section 9 until this episode lol He definitely is one of the characters that isn't paid much attention to. A good episode about his past, even if he isn't recognized very often :P |
Confucius said: So, does anyone who Pazu is until this episode? I didn't even know this character existed in Section 9 until this episode lol lol well I had noticed him in the past, but I never thought there would be an episode centered on him. It's good to know more about the S9 members I guess, I liked this episode (: |
| Pazu has been the one with less screentime that's for sure so and I'm happy that GitS is finally exploring one of the other members of the group. So far it's been pretty much Motoko, Batou and Togusa. I'd like to think the real Pazu was the one who survived, but who can tell really? |
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TVV said: Best episode of CSI, ever. It was definitely Paz that survived. At the beginning of the fight the one who is clearly Paz is slashed across the chest and bleeds. At the end of the fight the show the chest of the one who died, and there is also a slash across the chest. However this one is a deep crevice without any blood, and obviously a prosthetic. agree :P i think Paz was the survivor due to the one that died without any blood watsoever. i also find it funny how he tells the exact same line to his girl to major "I don't sleep with the same woman twice!" LOL i bet Motoko was was surprised as hell for him to say that. and yeah Batou probably thinking of him "damn womanizer" XD awesome episode, good to see other Section 9 members getting some screen time. we need more screen time to other members like Batou, Saito, Bomer, and Ishikawa. Aramaki had one with his old woman during a bank robbery. can't wait for more :P |
Leibstandarte said: Also, if I may add another thing, the reason why the Major and Batou simply shrugged off Pazu's issue was simply this: he had it coming! Pazu was a Yakuza prior to joining S9, he was also a prolific womanizer and his famous line is "I've never slept with the same woman twice!" He even had the gall to say that to his boss, the Major, when he joined her command. And as the Major said "I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of women want him dead.." So I really think that the attitude of Motoko and Batou was, you damn womanizer, you reap what you sow! =) This made me chuckle. Sounds legit to me. :) |
| How could they tell if that Paz is actually the real one ever?? D= |
 "I like to expose what people hide. I'm an intellectual rapist." - Furudo Erika |
| Apparently no one gives a damn about Pazu, lol. |
| Haha, exactly. Interesting episode, though. |
| So, an episode about Paz. It was about time, he deserved a chance to shine. The episode itself was really good. |
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| Ya, Pazu isn't really noticeable but I think he was there from the beginning. Anyways, an okay episode. |
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| Finally an episode that focused on one of the most mysterious members of Section 9. Don't ever see much of Pazu other than him sitting in the background smokin' a cigarette. Pretty awesome episode. |
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| Another rather boring episode, with the body swapping etc was rather interesting but if they're going to keep using this concept they'll probably get in some huge problems later, I do hope not though as it gets boring rather quick... Lets see what's next, the ending was quite interesting though! |
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| I'm actually so happy that Pazu got some screen time. I've always thought of him being the cool quiet member. I've always found him interesting and I'm glad they based an episode about him. |
| Finally an episode about Pazu. If it weren't for this episode i would have completely forgotten about him. "I've never slept with the same woman twise" be careful who you chose next time Pazu ^_^ |
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| Pretty scary how someone in that world can copy someone identity so easily. It was great to see devellopement on other team member. Didn't know Paz was a ladykiller :P |
| «Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie |
| Finally got an ep dedicated to another team member, about damn time lol. Also I'm pretty sure the Major and Batou do care about Pazu and were just messing around at the end there... I mean Batou tailing him just to make sure he was ok has to show he sorta kinda maybe cares about him .....right? >_> Ah who am I kidding, R.I.P original Pazu :(. We hardly knew ye. |
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| 4/5 Filler that puts a bit of characterization in Paz, but in the end despite being self-contained, has been fully engaged in the narrative; this along with some reflections and doubt makes intriguing and enjoyable episode as a whole! Too bad the drawings have the usual ups and downs. Wow, even the technicians of Section 9 are really good. |
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| Dat womanizer Paz. Never gets much screen time so it's cool to see him get an episode c: |
| the official MAL hall of fame/cursed comments is now open for business - you are welcome to PM me any potential quotes to include |
| Paz was probably the one he survived. Yeah, his ex-lover did copy his Ghost (i.e soul/consciousness) but it that Ghost is a previous one, the Paz she previously met. The Paz of the present has had many experiences since then. Therefore, he is obviously stronger than his previous self. Souls, as understood by many philosophies, are not static but dynamic. |
| What a bizarre idea for an episode. Shame that an episode like this reminds me of how underutilized chars like Pazu and Saito are. Dang since she has his ghost there really isn't anyway to prove if the real Pazu's still alive huh? I imagine Kuze would have a tough time eating with that face. |
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| If I am there I will smell his mouth immediatelly to confirm really Paz. Paz smokes at that time =)) |
| I liked knowing more about Paz. And I do think he was the one who lived. (At least that's what I want to believe) Though as crazy as that woman was clearly she meant a lot to him. |
| Seems like it won't make a difference anyway who the real Paz was lol |
| I want to know the truth Is he even alive? |
"Signature removed"   |
| I'm quite sure Paz survived and not his lover. She can copy all the memories and physical capabilities she wants, but his colleagues would definitely notice any changes. So while I don't think Paz does any hacking, but there are other things that can't be replicated or done to the same S9 standard simply by having the same memories and personality. |
| This episode was kinda bizarre in... bizarre ways the more I think about it. I mean, from early portion of the episode, I actually thought and was kinda surprised S9 was pretty lenient on Pazu (my first reaction to seeing fake Pazu commit that crime made think that perhaps he got a virus in his cyberbrain, and hence should of had his cyberbrain scanned, not only for a virus, but to verify his activity during the time of the crime). Second, it's always extreme for someone to go to those kind of lengths to be that obsessed with someone, to the point you try to assume their identity. I can't really buy she or even him were in 'love', and instead lust would be more accurate. I think her pride was hurt and therefore went on this crazy spree to 'become' the very person she grew to hate, just to spite him. Thirdly, it was interesting to me that I don't really question the personality of the ones on Section 9. I falsely assume they're broken individuals, perhaps because of suffering great injustices and therefore seek to enact justice. Like Batou for instance, his past isn't that tainted given the background we saw in season one, as his misstep was simply not killing that crazy pillager. It's something he carried with him, like a burden and wished to correct it. With Pazu, I didn't get the sense, when finally confronted with his 'demon', there wasn't much remorse or admitting that his background is kinda shitty. Though, it's not like he has committed any crimes, just a trail of broken hearts; a shady personality is just a flaw of his that can be rather costly. Lastly, I found it most eerie that one, in the universe of GitS, that one can assume the memories and skills(?) of an original, potentially replacing the original. I know these concepts have been explored in season one (like the South American revolution "Hero" or the very themes of copies and originals when it comes to the overarching investigations with the Laughing Man or currently, the Individual Eleven), however, the uncertainty that a copy could had replaced the real Pazu is serving on Section 9 is somewhat unnerving to me. But in the grand scheme of things... does it matter? That's where Motoko and Batou's departing conversation fits in here I believe... and in which case, I suppose it doesn't matter so long as Pazu remains Pazu, for the sake of Section 9's duties. But it could be troubling if a personality split occurred between fake Pazu and his ex lover drove each other crazy. Or perhaps that's a non-issue because she was content to dissolve her Ghost in order to fully become Pazu. From replaying that fight over and over, trying to latch onto some kind of small detail that could distinguish the fake from the original by the end.... I dunno, I'm led to believe fake Pazu won because if you look at the angle of the torn part of their shirts, the real Pazu got his shirt sliced at an angle that went downwards, while fake Pazu's shirt is torn upwards... whoa. |
ShoryuDec 18, 2016 5:08 PM
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
| Nice ep. Probably Paz won. Why? Because it would be very hard to obtain his memories from classified info from S9 without anyone noticing. Because Major would eventually find out. Because Paz didn't have full prostethics and if the fake Paz survived, it would be that way. Because if the fake Paz survived, then she would probably have a mental breakdown later in the series. Nobody can switch personalities forever without some kind of mental problem on the long run. Because even if trying to replicate Paz, his ability with the knife would be superior, as he was always wearing his body, and on the contrary, this fake Paz wears a Paz body for just a few days. So she probably is less skillfull with a knife. Developing on this last point, it took years for someone like Major Motoko to fully fine-control her full prostethic body. This fake Paz didn't have enough time to master the usage of it. So she was at a very hard disadvantage and probably lost the battle. With all said, it was probably Paz but we might never fully know. |
| -------- |
| Wow you guys making such fuss because one guy who was almost ignored the whole time I didn't even know he was there I only heared his name when Major called her men. |
| Great to have some focus on Paz, at least we know he can talk now ;) If i remember correctly Paz is the "most" violent one of section 9 (i think it was in season 1 where a fought some people hand to hand). |
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| "Was he the real one?" "Maybe" I can't help but chuckle, the Major and Batou care just as little about this guy as I do. |
syncrogazerNov 4, 2018 8:42 AM
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