Re Zero s3 censorship confirmed on 2 characters

@RobertBobert
Is something troubling you? Because I have no idea how that is what you got out of what I said.

@traed Yes. Complete loss of interest in this thread a few hours ago. And it seems that you have long had a much more passionate interlocutor for this topic than me.

@RobertBobert
Not really. I just am discussing things in my free time as I eat. Re: Zero isnt even a series ive watched yet but plan to at some point so it doesnt feel personal to me and I dont think the changes are that extreme but I still think they are not good.

@traed In this case, the change isn't the problem, although the random sports tops for fantasy characters seem completely tacky. The problem is that virtually the entire series was changed to accommodate foreign restrictions, not just the versions. People loved to roasting 4Kids, but they only changed the US/Canadian version.

@RobertBobert I'm actually quite annoyed too at how a lot of Japanese distinctiveness is being lost from anime generally in the conscious chase for a global audience. If we could just (a) keep a sense of proportion and stop calling the standard workings of a global market economy "censorship" (b) stop concentrating almost entirely on things like how much skin the girls are showing and (c) get over this idea that an adaption needs to copy every detail of the source material, we'd be good.

who cares? who watches re zero wanting to jerk off? Never has this series been overly sexual

@KittenCuddler The hell did you get that idea from???

not even Hero Rei nor Rev says desu made videos complaining about this supposed "censorship", and they are usually among the first to do so when it comes to anime censorship.
the new designs look fine. i still don't see the issue.

@DigiCat There is a long standing tradition among a small chunk of Gamers^TM to harass people they don't like (which is pretty much everyone who isn't a straight, white dood). There's a fair amount of overlap between these Gamers^TM and a portion of the anime community, unfortunately.

who cares? who watches re zero wanting to jerk off? Never has this series been overly sexual

I am most definitely anti-censorship, not that I'm pro-loli nudity (couldn't care less). It's just that I worry they are going to end up pandering to Western culture, which, in my eyes, will ruin anime for a lot of people. The reason it became so popular is because it doesn't suffer from Western influence. However, if they start doing this, where does it stop? How long before half of what makes anime special is removed? Let's face it, the people who demonize anime are not the ones who watch it, and I hope that this isn't the start of something like what happened to the gaming industry, Hollywood, etc. I don't want anime to start having trigger warnings or seeing content cut because it might offend someone. The big picture here isn't just about censoring nudity. It might start as that, but where does it end?

It's ok, I will jerk off to Konosuba S1E9 (the bath scene with Darkness) later today.

Anime has been subject to western influence at least since 2003, when Western companies first started getting involved in production. I remember how Gunslinger Girl was half-funded by the West. So you can get some idea of how Western influence works by looking at changes in the mid to late 00s. For more recently introduced influences, you need to be looking at streaming companies and China, as well as the whole effect of people growing up with a constantly attention-seeking device in their pocket.



What's happened to "the gaming industry, Hollywood, etc"? I mean, I can think of things which have happened to the gaming industry, and I can think of things which have happened to Hollywood, but I'm drawing a blank on things which have happened to both.



Cutting content is almost invariably bad, but what the hell could anyone who isn't a sociopath have against trigger warnings?

Genuinely why does anyone care about this? It is pretty awkward to have characters with childlike designs wearing extremely sexual clothing so I can understand the decision to tone it down a bit. The censored designs don't look that bad and are pretty natural looking. I wouldn't be able to tell that the designs were altered just by looking at them. If y'all are really butthurt about a child not dressing incredibly sexually.... what is wrong with you? No wonder the average person thinks the anime community is full of pedophiles

Personally, I think at least for me, I just despise the idea of ANY limiters being put on fiction for ANY reason.

Cause everyone draws the line of what is ACCEPTABLE at different places, and the more we give room for those lines, the more of them will be drawn. until we get shit like the west thinking removing characters arcs from a kids cartoon is justified because a character starting sexist, and learning to not be sexist anymore is too "iffy". (I'm talking about the new avatar live action)

So, again, at least for me, that's why it's bad.

If this was the original design, I wouldn't complain, the complain is at the act of censorship itself, not the specific thing.

Hang on, I thought it was the original design. Do you perhaps mean "the design used for the light novels" instead?

Because if you do, insisting that people doing an adaption copy designs from the original is placing limiters on fiction.

That honestly depends.

If they did it as a creative choice, I agree, it's no problem, and they are more than free to do it.

But I think the more likely scenario is that they did it for censorship,

Though I will say that this specific case Is small enough that I don't REALLY care, I'm just mainly still salty about what they did to avatar.

@APolygons2

There are other possibilities. For example, fanservice is neither done as a creative choice nor done for censorship. It's done to make a subset of viewers happy. Hence "service for fans".

This may have also been done to make viewers happy, just viewers who are "I don't want to see a young-looking girl with very little clothing on" rather than "show me the pantsu". Both of which seem fine to me, anime is supposed to entertain all sorts of different people.

@logopolis

changing something because some people wouldn't like to see it IS censorship.

Taking away fanservice from something that has it is also censorship.



The opposite of fanservice isn't removing it, it's not having it to begin with. if the reason you are "changing something", is anything that isn't about improving the works core quality, it's bad.

fanservice isn't a creative choice, but it's an "inclusion", My problem is with taking something away, it does not apply to additions, even if the reason for those additions is not creative writing.

Like if they removed fanservice cause it was messing up the tone, that would be fine.

To give an example, I actually liked that the toned down the nudity in that one heavenly delusions scene, cause it put more emphasis on the messed upness of the whole situation, and completely removed the scene from being seen as any form of fanservice.

In this case it is very likely that they made changes to appeal to western distributors - companies, not actual customers. Some companies that have a lot of influence have very strict policies regardless of what the general sentiment is within the population. Bending the knee to those companies is censorship.

@delirific "Being censored", surely. The censorship in that case would be conducted by the distributors, not their victims.

@Yuu_Kanzaki Very unlikely given this was the Japanese trailer, and I doubt it will be treated as a ecchi. Apparently the character designer (behind the censored designs) got harassed off social media too.

@logopolis No? Distributors just say "we will distribute it under these conditions" and that's it. Why would they do any censoring themselves if they can just demand the studio to make it in censored format from the start? They have the influence to force the studios to do it, PLUS they don't even want to associate with content where the original version of it doesn't adhere to their policies.

@delirific the original source is a web novel and had no illustration. the illustration in the light novel was done by an artist who is NOT the original author. in fact, the material for the 1st volume in the light novel was available as early as May 8th, 2012, while the 1st light novel volume was released 2 years later, on January 23, 2014.

also, people who consume everything for free and don't spend a dime to support the series they watch are not consumers. they are freeloaders.

@DreamingBeats Leaving aside the extreme manipulation nature of such an argument, the web novel still had textual descriptions of the characters. And even aside from the even more weird claim that the illustrator supposedly doesn't have rights to the character designs due to the fact that he didn't write the story, many of ReZero's characters, including these two, were designed in collaboration with Nagatsuki-san. So yes, the studio is altering the work of the original creators for commercial purposes.

AND? Are you assuming that everyone who complains about censorship is pirates?

@delirific They simply deny the very fact of self-censorship as a phenomenon. I didn’t quite notice when it started, but now you can increasingly see the opinion that any voluntary self-censorship is supposedly a sincere decision of the authors and cannot be criticized or critically analyzed. That is, self-censorship is actually just normalized in a “you did it yourself” style way.

@HakuNoKaemi reality doesn't matter. It all depends on who is the first to call their opponents’ behavior harassment. And then people will simply upvot the opinion that is more convenient for them. I could say I'm used to it a long time ago, but I'm still impressed by the aggressiveness of modern Twitter.

@RobertBobert ok fine .00000001% of people from the west complaining about the new designs have spent some money on the series.

@DreamingBeats let's pretend that I believed in such an obvious, exaggerated bait. What about the Japanese who also asked questions about the reason for the design changes? Let me guess, they just "don't exist"?

@RobertBobert it's well known that most people in the west pirate the shit out of everything. heck, MAL itself can be considered the west's anime pirate HQ considering the vast majority here pirate anime. I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying things as they are.

also, just because someone in Japan asked the reason for the design changes, that doesn't mean they are complaining.
there is a mile of difference between asking why the design is different from the light novel and complaining about it and making a big deal over it.

@logopolis No? Distributors just say "we will distribute it under these conditions" and that's it. Why would they do any censoring themselves if they can just demand the studio to make it in censored format from the start? They have the influence to force the studios to do it, PLUS they don't even want to associate with content where the original version of it doesn't adhere to their policies.

And now for Capella's OG design



A bikini top 3 sizes too small for her

I actually really like her new design, it doesn't scream "we're covering her up!!!", it has a sporty look to it, something that'd be good in battle, while still complimenting her figure, and there's no weird boob shrinking

female under 18 against censorship

even tho I am against censorship, in this case I really dont see the problem. She looks like a child yet shes wearing a really revealing outfit and it emphasizes her boobs. Of course the original intention was to make this character appear hot, and thats kinda odd when she looks like a literal child

its still so crazy to me how children in anime is sexualized yet everybody glosses over it because theyre drawings? it makes no sense to me.

female under 18 against censorship

even tho I am against censorship, in this case I really dont see the problem. She looks like a child yet shes wearing a really revealing outfit and it emphasizes her boobs. Of course the original intention was to make this character appear hot, and thats kinda odd when she looks like a literal child

its still so crazy to me how children in anime is sexualized yet everybody glosses over it because theyre drawings? it makes no sense to me.

@Kenzolo-folk Personally, what confuses me more is why now any female character without a mature, curvy appearance is declared a child. This is some kind of real moral panic, seriously. None of these characters are either children or lolis. The first is a petite 22-year-old woman dressed as an oriental dancer, and the second is a lust-related villain whose height is similar to the other main characters. She even has a group of children who call her "mother." Clearly the intention was not to show her as "hot", but rather as a disturbing and dangerously depraved character.

This is ReZero, a franchise so devoid of ecchi and fanservice that their fanservice OVAs look like pure SOL in comparison (compare how even old fans of the title reacted to the attempt to enlarge Emilia’s breasts). I don't understand why so many people suddenly started looking for some kind of lewd intentions in the show. Especially from people who enjoy shows with much more open lewd content.

@DigiCat that design is miles better, you're just a hater who wants series with shit they don't like in it to change and suit your tastes.

@RobertBobert
I feel like youre trying to make me backtrack like I think women are only women if they are curvy and mature. I know that grown women don't always have fully developed boobs and they are petite, even im on my way to being one of those- but this character is clearly imitating a child. What "petite 22-year-old woman" looks like this? She is wearing pigtails, she has a high pitched voice, she has a "mischievous playful attitude like a child, her head is bigger than the rest of her body. Its not just what she "has" like her boobs, or no curves, her proportions imitate a literal child. Unless you have some genetic condition, no petite woman resembles these proportions. Spending the majority of your time watching anime has skewed your perception on whats fucked up or not because youre so used to seeing this, its not normal.

I dont think Re:zero is lewd but you have to remember this is a JAPANESE show, their culture is heavy on some creepy shit and you people think its normal

@-Shurit-
Drawings imitate life, its still fucked.

@Kenzolo-folk You literally say it yourself, implying that petite, cheerful and/or generally not curvy characters look like children and should be perceived as such, either directly or metaphorically. Regardless of the illustrator's style, the background of the characters or the show. And let's be honest, if these characters were mature, cruvy women with "adult behavior" then people would start complaining about objectification, fan service and male gaze. You just can't win here.

And let's please avoid this racist crap about "Japanese creepy culture". I understand that there is a new wave of moral panics and witch hunts of all kinds, but when the obsession with "pedos" turns into creating negative prejudices about Japanese culture as a whole, it crosses all boundaries.

@Kenzolo-folk Personally, what confuses me more is why now any female character without a mature, curvy appearance is declared a child. This is some kind of real moral panic, seriously. None of these characters are either children or lolis. The first is a petite 22-year-old woman dressed as an oriental dancer, and the second is a lust-related villain whose height is similar to the other main characters. She even has a group of children who call her "mother." Clearly the intention was not to show her as "hot", but rather as a disturbing and dangerously depraved character.

This is ReZero, a franchise so devoid of ecchi and fanservice that their fanservice OVAs look like pure SOL in comparison (compare how even old fans of the title reacted to the attempt to enlarge Emilia’s breasts). I don't understand why so many people suddenly started looking for some kind of lewd intentions in the show. Especially from people who enjoy shows with much more open lewd content.

@RobertBobert
@RobertBobert
I'm not "obsessed," I'm disturbed . I don't know why I'm supposed to seem like the leftist loud one for being disturbed by the drawing of a child wearing lewd clothes.
Although there are some scenes in Berserk I disagree with, the molestation of Guts is not what I would consider to be on the same par as loli bait shit like this. Guts' backstory couldve done without the visual representation, but its not supposed to seem like a good thing or desirable, the author was trying to make the reader feel repulsed rather than enticed- albeit in an odd way. Again, I don't hate Re:zero, I enjoy it alot, but like berserk I can enjoy things and still disagree with some aspects.

The "creepy japanese culture" thing is not "racist," its a literal reality. If a bus has to have a sign that says to not take photos of females' underpants, clearly there is a problem. I dont think using the context of a countrys very huge problem is racist, i dont even hate japanese people, but their creepy culture is undeniable. Selling toys of lolis with sounds of children is just pedo bait, whether youve been brainwashed to believe it is or isn't.


And yes, if a character looks more like a CHILD than a woman, with those same big face small body proportions and childish personality, OF COURSE i am going to perceive it as a child. Just because the show tells me some irrelevant metric that they are actually 2,000 years old is meaningless if they LOOK and ACT more like a child than a grown woman.

and obviously, whats worse: loli sexualization, or grown woman sexualization?
Clearly loli sexualization is WAY worse, so even if people do complain about grown female characters being sexualized, it is still way better than lolis. Of course people are going to complain about objectifcation, I dont want to watcha show where every scene featuring a woman is just them being stripped naked or touched by random men because it detracts from a good story which is what im here for. But i can and any normal human can tolerate that WAY MORE than a drawing of child.
Im honestly genuinely impressed by how far youve convinced urself that this is somehow okay because the show tells you that shes old enough.