| If the anime can't convince the audience that the protagonist is actually in danger, then there are no stakes to all the supposedly dangerous scenes happening. The protagonist surviving some things is one thing, but it gets really bad when really the only reason they survive, is because the author needs them to live. That just totally breaks the suspension of disbelief, and results in a garbage story. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
| I don't like plot armour when it's too extreme If you don't want to kill your character, do not put them in a situation where death is the only logical result. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
deg said: There's a limit to it. Some anime characters have ridiculously thick plot armour and you know that no matter what happens, the situation will end up being in their favor.is realism or real life logic that important in anime? why not treat it as luck ye the main characters are lucky Everything just becomes way too predictable and there's no fun in watching it... |
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| it's not that we want the main characters to die for realism, it's that we want to think that the main characters COULD die if a danger is near. which is specially important in thrillers. the plot armor is a problem because it takes away the sense of danger, aka brings down the stakes. there is a reason for why action scenes in parasyte and made in abyss make you way more worried for the characters compared to most battle shounen out there. |
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| Plot armor is one of the worst tropes to exist right after time travel. Realism isn't the problem rather the execution of it. |
I may make you feel but I can't make you think.  |
| Yeah, thick plot armor is the worse. If the author need the character to live, it will be so much better to create a situation where he can survive. Not based on pure luck and a chain of coincidence. Honestly I enjoy Game of Throne (an HBO series, not an Anime). The author just kill characters here and there. Even when the viewer thinks it is important character. That kind of realism is very good if executed well. And it give more dynamic and flow to the story. |
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| Plot armor is often a pretty bad argument and depends on some factors. If you have just one main character and you kill him, well, the anime will be fucking over. If it's a long running anime with a lot of main characters and you kill one, guess what, the fans will be pissed and drop the anime. So this argument is really only relevant for short anime with a lot of characters but yet I hear people say it about almost every anime. |
| Well most of them aren't even that bad tbh. It's mostly a word (just like "mid") to criticise a series you don't like |
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deg said: this is one of the most common buzzword i hear every time in the forums its like people want characters to die so much just why? especially killing main characters is realism or real life logic that important in anime? why not treat it as luck ye the main characters are lucky Realism/Real Life Logic is not that close to "Kill a character whenever there is a possibility" and people tend to mistake it with the only logical way. After all there is a possibility of Ransoming people etc. If you want that much realism than why there was so many ransomed soldiers in Middle Ages who later got away/ were slaves / got exchanged / were bought by their Lords/Leader/King, even in nowadays we have that much stuff happening and the exchanges are made in recent days too. After all it is not about killing but about decreasing the threat. So with that point I can tell you not Killing doesn't mean "Plot Armour", Killing doesn't mean "Logical/Realism" way, if it ends different than it would seem like some unexplained boost, 5th+ transform which means that the person who would be ransomed is suddenly defeating his opponent that is the "Plot Armour" in my own logic. Best example from recent shows is people complaining why Obi Wan didn't finish off Vader in Kenobi show when he had opportunity and it proves only one way [without taking the Jedi culture and ideology] that Vader was no longer a threat to him so he choosed not to kill and not to ransom/imprison him. |
| the word is being used everywhere in a totally wrong way, same with the word "plot device" people don't understand what it even means and call it that mostly. and yes, its bad, just show's the author's incapability/nature to not be serious. |
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Apolygon2 said: it's not that we want the main characters to die for realism, it's that we want to think that the main characters COULD die if a danger is near. which is specially important in thrillers. the plot armor is a problem because it takes away the sense of danger, aka brings down the stakes. there is a reason for why action scenes in parasyte and made in abyss make you way more worried for the characters compared to most battle shounen out there. i mean.... that's basically impossible when you see there are 10+ more eps left π |
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Blueberry173 said: Apolygon2 said: it's not that we want the main characters to die for realism, it's that we want to think that the main characters COULD die if a danger is near. which is specially important in thrillers. the plot armor is a problem because it takes away the sense of danger, aka brings down the stakes. there is a reason for why action scenes in parasyte and made in abyss make you way more worried for the characters compared to most battle shounen out there. i mean.... that's basically impossible when you see there are 10+ more eps left π it's not, series without plot a lot of plot armor kill characters that aren't THE MAIN character all the time. you can't really kill the eren in aot, but you could kill mikasa, armin or any other character. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
ateks said: Plot armor is often a pretty bad argument and depends on some factors. If you have just one main character and you kill him, well, the anime will be fucking over. If it's a long running anime with a lot of main characters and you kill one, guess what, the fans will be pissed and drop the anime. So this argument is really only relevant for short anime with a lot of characters but yet I hear people say it about almost every anime. If the one and only main character can't reasonably survive, you've written yourself into a corner, better start over... That's kind of the issue with high stakes stuff, if the protagonists can't fail without the story just being over, then ironically the stakes for the audience are nonexistent. Unless you pull a bamboozle, and actually just end the world, and end the story on a downer ending... That's how a SoL show like the Aquarium anime has higher stakes than stuff like Made in Abyss or Re:Zero. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
Apolygon2 said: Blueberry173 said: i mean.... that's basically impossible when you see there are 10+ more eps left π it's not, series without plot a lot of plot armor kill characters that aren't THE MAIN character all the time. you can't really kill the eren in aot, but you could kill mikasa, armin or any other character. fair, but most of the complains i hear are sadly about that THE MAIN character, said in that context only. |
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| plot armor is when you're a good, kind, devoted, loyal childhood friend girl but a hormonal tsundere with anger issues still wins the mc bowl because the writer decided so |
| plot armor is everywhere, it's not just an anime thing. Sometimes you can just tell who's going to live through to the very end of the story. Most writers don't have the balls to kill off someone important. Game of thrones pulled a real fast one in it's first novel but thats the kind of surprise you can only do once. |
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deg said: why not treat it as luck ye the main characters are lucky Making things happen by luck or coincidence is way easier than providing logical reasons. Making everything go back to the status quo at the end of an arc is way easier than introducing changes that won't make things go back to how they used to be. Artificially creating tension, pretending to have high stakes, is way easier than writing an interesting story with low stakes. easier = more common = generic |
KuroNekoAlchemy said: plot armor is when you're a good, kind, devoted, loyal childhood friend girl but a hormonal tsundere with anger issues still wins the mc bowl because the writer decided so Just like in real life you mean? Doesn't this rather make the story realistic? |
ateks said: KuroNekoAlchemy said: plot armor is when you're a good, kind, devoted, loyal childhood friend girl but a hormonal tsundere with anger issues still wins the mc bowl because the writer decided so Just like in real life you mean? Doesn't this rather make the story realistic? nah, irl it's cause the childhood friend is not as cool and loyal as she thinks, but no one told her yet she's a nice giiiirll, ok? |
| "people want characters to die so much just why?" Note really. People just want better written/more believable explanations how character X survived event N. |
| Plot armour isn’t inherently a bad thing. Whether it’s good or not depends on how it’s used. You can’t just kill off major characters willy nilly, otherwise the audience stops caring about whether they live or die. You also can’t have the main characters surmounting perils every episode via a stroke of deus ex machina, because then you lose the tension and thrill those moments provide. You have to find a middle ground between safety and danger. |
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deg said: Nirinbo said: Making things happen by luck or coincidence is way easier than providing logical reasons. Making everything go back to the status quo at the end of an arc is way easier than introducing changes that won't make things go back to how they used to be. Artificially creating tension, pretending to have high stakes, is way easier than writing an interesting story with low stakes. easier = more common = generic common or generic also means an integral part of stories right? so its not a criticism imo but rather an obvious part of storytelling It is a criticism in the sense that it's not a thing that makes the story stand out; not necessarily bad, but definitely not above average. |
| Huh, just in time. I'm currently reading The Ravages of Time and the only issue I have with the manhua is that the action and cool factor gets too over the top at times, taking credibility from it at times in what is a story based on historical events. Specially in the beginning, one of the two protagonists is just unbelievably tough. But then, when i think about what Rasputin alledgely survived, and all what alledgely took to kill Blackbeard, plot armor becomes a plot point that I need to think a little bit more about. It is a problem when it becomes too much though, like, the last arc in Fairy Tail (before the series got a continuation) was infamous in how characters just would survive the most ridiculous things, particularly Erza, because she is Erza (actual dialogue from the manga and anime). Another more obscure example, Brigadoon, one of the issues within the show is that the main girl gets injured a lot, like, a lot. It's possible for her to survive the situations she is in, but not to take as much damage as she does. There needs to be some balance between high stakes and how tough your characters are, otherwise you take away tension from your action show. The way I see it, some good ways to do it is have balls to actually kill main characters (LOGH), kill other characters than the main ones (TTGL, Hokuto no Ken, JoJo), maybe don't kill your main character but make it so he gets either seriously damaged to the point where he can't fight anymore (Tekkaman Blade, Hunter x Hunter, unless Togashi asspulls something in the future), or if you have a seemingly unkillable protagonist, have the stakes be high enough that everyone else can die or the whole setting can be destroyed (Choujin Locke, I particularly recommend watching the first movie, but not the rest of the franchise, really). |
deg said: than pure luck or miracle Even it's luck, there should be some impact - shock, survival's guilt or maybe the MC being more careful in future this saving their life next time...stuff like that. |
Blueberry173 said: Apolygon2 said: it's not, series without plot a lot of plot armor kill characters that aren't THE MAIN character all the time. you can't really kill the eren in aot, but you could kill mikasa, armin or any other character. fair, but most of the complains i hear are sadly about that THE MAIN character, said in that context only. well here's the thing, as far as the main, main character goes, you still can make him/her get hurt. if you are putting the main character in a situation where his only reason he survives is plot armor, making it so he/she gets a permanent damage like losing an arm, keeps them alive while also still keeping the stakes high. if you don't want to do that, fine, you can make the main character win without plot armor. make them outsmart the enemy. make them stronger than the enemy. convince the audience that he is still alive for a reason other than being the main character. |
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| Depends on the anime and how will they execute it. Like the anime "One Punch Man", it can be pretty funny although it's predictable, can be interesting on how they'll solve the conflict. Plot armor has it's pros and cons. Like for example, "Ousama Ranking", Bojji, despite being too overpowered, and almost no flaws at all, lost on some immortal black goo. It gives you the same suspense similar on not having plot armor at all. |
| It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can really affect certain aspects of a story if done poorly. |
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ateks said: Plot armor is often a pretty bad argument and depends on some factors. If you have just one main character and you kill him, well, the anime will be fucking over. If it's a long running anime with a lot of main characters and you kill one, guess what, the fans will be pissed and drop the anime. So this argument is really only relevant for short anime with a lot of characters but yet I hear people say it about almost every anime. you can't kill the mc if he/she is the only one, but killing is not the only thing that combats plot armor. you can make the mc get hurt, or loose someone. parasyte is a great example of that. if you kill a main character well, no one will complain. yes if you do something like stranger things, were it is so obvious that they kill characters because they feel like they have to kill characters, that's a problem, but there is nothing wrong with killing characters that have complete character arcs, specially if you give them a worthy death. |
| Also available at: YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK8spdL1M_J-z0vO2C7jPLw Second Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@AshPolygonsDo/videos Twitter: https://x.com/APolygons2 Backloggd: https://backloggd.com/games/lib/rating?page=8 IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/user/ur107632777/?ref_=uspf_nv_profile |
deg said: this is one of the most common buzzword i hear every time in the forums its like people want characters to die so much just why? especially killing main characters is realism or real life logic that important in anime? why not treat it as luck ye the main characters are lucky No one expects the MC to die. However, an MC surviving just for the sake of surviving is just poor writing. It's not about real life logic, but about the logic of that particular fictional universe. If at a particular time you have got an MC who can't beat a certain character, but ends up doing so anyway, with nonsensical power up or ignoring that logic, then that's bad writing. You don't get complaints of plot armour in H×H cause it handles it pretty well. And then look at Bleach and it's fights. I still can't make sense of most of Ichigo's fights. |
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| Every protagonist has plot armour, otherwise the series would end very quickly. It just depends on how often they have it and what kind of plot armour. If a writer doesn't use it too often and uses it when it makes sense, then that's fine. |
| ππππ |
deg said: Satan1234 said: No one expects the MC to die. However, an MC surviving just for the sake of surviving is just poor writing. It's not about real life logic, but about the logic of that particular fictional universe. If at a particular time you have got an MC who can't beat a certain character, but ends up doing so anyway, with nonsensical power up or ignoring that logic, then that's bad writing. You don't get complaints of plot armour in H×H cause it handles it pretty well. And then look at Bleach and it's fights. I still can't make sense of most of Ichigo's fights. asspulls are tropes too plus rule of cool is another trope too so illogical things are irrelevant as long as its entertaining I don't consider asspulls as tropes but even if we do, the existence of asspulls takes away any suspense from the story. That's not very entertaining to watch after a while. When I watch one piece, I already know no straw hat is going to die irrespective of which impossible situation they are caught in. There is absolutely no entertainment value in such a fight. I mean, that particular bit is subjective. Illogical writing can be entertaining, but you can't possibly call it good writing. Anyway, at the end of the day, it comes down to subjective preference. |
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Blueberry173 said: Apolygon2 said: it's not that we want the main characters to die for realism, it's that we want to think that the main characters COULD die if a danger is near. which is specially important in thrillers. the plot armor is a problem because it takes away the sense of danger, aka brings down the stakes. there is a reason for why action scenes in parasyte and made in abyss make you way more worried for the characters compared to most battle shounen out there. i mean.... that's basically impossible when you see there are 10+ more eps left π I watched Vivy thinking there are only 11 episodes. |
| Anti-aliasing enthusiast |
| Plot armor is the best armor, surely. |
LoveScope said: I love the concept of time travel, but you're right, it's almost never executed well in anime. Even worse, most of the time it is literally used as a form of plot armor.Plot armor is one of the worst tropes to exist right after time travel. Realism isn't the problem rather the execution of it. |
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| i want plot armor for myself and all of my friends |
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Apolygon2 said: Blueberry173 said: fair, but most of the complains i hear are sadly about that THE MAIN character, said in that context only. well here's the thing, as far as the main, main character goes, you still can make him/her get hurt. if you are putting the main character in a situation where his only reason he survives is plot armor, making it so he/she gets a permanent damage like losing an arm, keeps them alive while also still keeping the stakes high. if you don't want to do that, fine, you can make the main character win without plot armor. make them outsmart the enemy. make them stronger than the enemy. convince the audience that he is still alive for a reason other than being the main character. yeah, that's exactly what i mean, but as i said in my 1st post here, people missuse the word and say "its just plot armour" even if survival is logical in like most of the cases. people use words they don't even know about clearly. |
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Paul_Foreign said: LoveScope said: I love the concept of time travel, but you're right, it's almost never executed well in anime. Even worse, most of the time it is literally used as a form of plot armor.Plot armor is one of the worst tropes to exist right after time travel. Realism isn't the problem rather the execution of it. Summertime Render takes this to 11 as it concludes. I'd say even worse than anything stein's or rezero ever did. |
I may make you feel but I can't make you think. |
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